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How to become a System Administrator?
|
|
| New Guy 2004-04-02, 3:34 pm |
| Gurus,
I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
I have worked in school on different flavors, mostly HP-UX but our
teacher never got into deep about any topics. We touched hardware,
network but did mostly shell scripting.
What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
Should I focus on programming? Performance tuning? Backup and
recovery? High availability?
Please provide me with some pointers. I am very "wet behind the ears"
and appreciate all the help I can get.
Thanks!
ks
| |
| Lew Pitcher 2004-04-02, 4:38 pm |
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New Guy wrote:
| Gurus,
|
| I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
| sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
|
| I have worked in school on different flavors, mostly HP-UX but our
| teacher never got into deep about any topics. We touched hardware,
| network but did mostly shell scripting.
|
| What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
| Should I focus on programming? Performance tuning? Backup and
| recovery? High availability?
|
| Please provide me with some pointers. I am very "wet behind the ears"
| and appreciate all the help I can get.
Well, I can't speak directly to the job of System Administrator, but I
can tell you what I've seen SysAdms do...
They program (a little) in languages like C and Java
They program (a bit more) in languages like bash and PERL and python
They tune systems for performance
They back up systems, they recover from backups
They add users, change users, delete users, help users figure out things
They generate reports
They configure LANs (from wiring to network software)
They do a lot of things that I haven't enumerated here
Basically, a SysAdm is a jack-of-all-trades. S/He has to be competent at
a wide variety of tasks, and conversant in a wide variety of disciplines.
My advice would be that you get the best 'all round' education you can
get. Don't concentrate on 'tuning' to the exclusion of 'scripting' or
'networking' to the exclusion of 'programming'.
If you can, get a job (part time, volunteer, whatever) where you can
watch real SysAdms at work. 'Apprentice' yourself to them, until you
have an idea of where they spend their time, and what they do.
Now, the /real/ SysAdms here will give you better advice <grin>
- --
Lew Pitcher, IT Consultant, Enterprise Application Architecture
Enterprise Technology Solutions, TD Bank Financial Group
(Opinions expressed here are my own, not my employer's)
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| |
| Tugger 2004-04-02, 4:38 pm |
| Lew Pitcher wrote:
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> Hash: SHA1
>
> New Guy wrote:
>
> | Gurus,
> |
> | I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> | sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
> |
> | I have worked in school on different flavors, mostly HP-UX but our
> | teacher never got into deep about any topics. We touched hardware,
> | network but did mostly shell scripting.
> |
> | What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
> | Should I focus on programming? Performance tuning? Backup and
> | recovery? High availability?
> |
> | Please provide me with some pointers. I am very "wet behind the ears"
> | and appreciate all the help I can get.
>
> Well, I can't speak directly to the job of System Administrator, but I
> can tell you what I've seen SysAdms do...
>
> They program (a little) in languages like C and Java
> They program (a bit more) in languages like bash and PERL and python
> They tune systems for performance
> They back up systems, they recover from backups
> They add users, change users, delete users, help users figure out things
> They generate reports
> They configure LANs (from wiring to network software)
> They do a lot of things that I haven't enumerated here
>
> Basically, a SysAdm is a jack-of-all-trades. S/He has to be competent at
> a wide variety of tasks, and conversant in a wide variety of disciplines.
>
> My advice would be that you get the best 'all round' education you can
> get. Don't concentrate on 'tuning' to the exclusion of 'scripting' or
> 'networking' to the exclusion of 'programming'.
>
> If you can, get a job (part time, volunteer, whatever) where you can
> watch real SysAdms at work. 'Apprentice' yourself to them, until you
> have an idea of where they spend their time, and what they do.
>
> Now, the /real/ SysAdms here will give you better advice <grin>
OK, real SysAdmin here.
Much of the above is good advice. Broad rather than deep is the way to
start, then get deep as you find out what your job requires.
I'd say if I was to pick one topic to get good at, go for Networking.
TCP/IP is all that matters in real world Unix networks - O'Reilly
publish a good book on this subject which I'm willing to bet most
SysAdmins have read at least once.
Good luck!
| |
| Timothy J. Bogart 2004-04-02, 6:37 pm |
| New Guy wrote:
> Gurus,
>
> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
>
> I have worked in school on different flavors, mostly HP-UX but our
> teacher never got into deep about any topics. We touched hardware,
> network but did mostly shell scripting.
>
> What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
> Should I focus on programming? Performance tuning? Backup and
> recovery? High availability?
>
> Please provide me with some pointers. I am very "wet behind the ears"
> and appreciate all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ks
UNIX System Administration, Evi Nemeth et al
| |
|
| In article <2e50789c.0404021210.48086442@posting.google.com>, New Guy wrote:
> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
[snip]
I think you don't know what you're asking for. :-)
> What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
> Should I focus on programming? Performance tuning? Backup and
> recovery? High availability?
All of those. Add a lot more. Begin with how to make things work. Add,
how to fix things if they break. ObOtherPosters already pointed a few
things out, I'll add a few things more. Just what you see is often not
enough, administrating is rife with hidden reasons, policies, whatnot.
Know where to find and how to read documentation and standards. In the
TCP/IP world of the internet, this means RFC, STD and BCP documents. On
unix this means manpages, handbooks, et cetera. Learn where to find what
you need quickly. Learn to plan ahead, conservatively.
Know how to document what you are doing and to keep track of everything
you do. Administration means paperwork, and administration of computing
means keeping track of all the little and big things you do and all the
little and big things that ``your users'' do and break, and all the
other stuff that just breaks on its own.
People will look at you to _know stuff_, and you can't keep on making
stuff up, so you'll have to know what you're doing. Especially since
sysadmins often get to do ``live surgery''. You want to avoid that, but
you'll get to do it anyway. So you want to know where you are and what
happens if things go wrong and how to mop up with the least bit of fuss
and with the least sleep deprivation on your side.
Learn to back up what you're telling users and your boss(es) with facts
and consequences in a way that they'll still listen to you. Document
why your setup is the way it is. Be prepared for telling people who
want to use it in wild and wacky ways that you never intended, why that
is not a good idea in a way that they won't feel offended.
Learn when to say ``no'', and make sure you are allowed to do that when
you need to.
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-03, 11:36 am |
| On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:29:13 -0700, Timothy J. Bogart <tbogart@frii.net> wrote:
> New Guy wrote:
>
> UNIX System Administration, Evi Nemeth et al
Be aware that some online sellers are (still!) selling the old edition.
I think it's on third edition now, check the color of the cover. Pretty
sure the current one is the purple one.
Dave Hinz
| |
| Davide Bianchi 2004-04-03, 1:34 pm |
| In comp.unix.admin jpd <read_the_sig@do.not.spam.it> wrote:
> I think you don't know what you're asking for. :-)
I think he will quick discover it...
> All of those. Add a lot more. Begin with how to make things work. Add,
> how to fix things if they break.
Add 'explain to someone with an IQ <= 10 that drilling an hole in a
laptop to fasten it to the table with a screw isn't a good way to
prevent it for being stolen'. And NO, I'm not making this stuff up!
> People will look at you to _know stuff_,
And you have to teach them, sometime using a club, sometimes using
an hammer...
I'd suggest you visit alt.sysadmin.recovery for a while.
Davide
--
| Mitchell's Law of Committees: Any simple problem can be made insoluble
| if enough meetings are held to discuss it.
|
|
| |
| Robert Melson 2004-04-03, 2:34 pm |
| On Saturday 03 April 2004 11:07, Davide Bianchi wrote:
> In comp.unix.admin jpd <read_the_sig@do.not.spam.it> wrote:
<snip>
[color=darkred]
> I'd suggest you visit alt.sysadmin.recovery for a while.
>
> Davide
>
> --
> | Mitchell's Law of Committees: Any simple problem can be made insoluble
> | if enough meetings are held to discuss it.
> |
> |
To the necessary qualities to be a really good SysAdmin, I'd certainly add a
good sense of humor and infinite patience. Technical skills are important,
as everybody who has replied so far has indicated, but you have to have
people skills, as well -- you don't live or work in isolation and have to
interact with those yawps/lusers who infest your user base.
Develop the ability to do "power naps" when you can. Get used to long days
and even longer nights -- the important stuff can _never_ be done during
normal hours or during the regular work week. Get used to the idea that
your "over and above the call" will almost never be recognized in any
substantive way, rarely even with an "attaboy", because it's expected of
you.
Your technical skill set will develop depending on the major flavor of Unix
or other o/s you work with. While there's a core skill set that transfers
from unix to unix, each of the majors has its idiosyncrasies that make it
"different" from the others and .... Concentrate on core skills, worry
about "flavor" when you decide this is what you really want to do,
professionally.
Bob Melson
--
Robert G. Melson A society of sheep must in time beget a
Rio Grande MicroSolutions government of wolves.
El Paso, Texas Bertrand de Jouvenal
melsonr(at)earthlink(dot)net
| |
| Michael Heiming 2004-04-03, 5:36 pm |
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jpd <read_the_sig@do.not.spam.it> wrote:
> In article <2e50789c.0404021210.48086442@posting.google.com>, New Guy wrote:
> [snip]
> I think you don't know what you're asking for. :-)
Looks like.
;)
[color=darkred]
> All of those. Add a lot more. Begin with how to make things work. Add,
> how to fix things if they break. ObOtherPosters already pointed a few
> things out, I'll add a few things more. Just what you see is often not
> enough, administrating is rife with hidden reasons, policies, whatnot.
Try working out how to setup a system automatically, with all
your enhancements included and patched to the latest update
packages available. The better new systems are prepared, include
quotas if needed, the less work they'll generate in the future.
[..]
> People will look at you to _know stuff_, and you can't keep on making
> stuff up, so you'll have to know what you're doing. Especially since
> sysadmins often get to do ``live surgery''. You want to avoid that, but
LOL...You won't be able to avoid it and be sure that people
expect you to fix things in a minute, they are struggling with
since hours.
[..]
> Learn when to say ``no'', and make sure you are allowed to do that when
> you need to.
Yep, once read a pretty good doc about the job, it pointed out
that this job would need more task switches during a single day,
then most other in a whole year.
- --
Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)
Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
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| |
|
| New Guy wrote / skrev:
> Please provide me with some pointers. I am very "wet behind the ears"
> and appreciate all the help I can get.
Here's one URL for you:
http://sageweb.sage.org/
../Erik
| |
| Doug Freyburger 2004-04-05, 9:36 am |
| Tugger wrote:
>
Not "jack of all trades master of none". SAs need to be "master
of all trades jack of none". Ability to learn a system quickly
and completely to make people think you are this is mandatory.
[color=darkred]
> Broad rather than deep is the way to
> start, then get deep as you find out what your job requires.
I call this "being a table". Tables are wide and level so items set
on them don't roll around, and they have several legs that reach all
the way down to the floor. An SA needs across the board computer
skills like this (never let the NT folks you happen to know most of
their modules better than they do but be d*mn certain you do). An
SA also needs to be as deep as possible in a few points to hold the
table up. Networking, scripting, modularity and the layers of the
onion, telling users the obvious without ruffling feathers.
| |
| David Douthitt 2004-04-05, 10:37 am |
|
"New Guy" <kshop@adnohr.net> wrote in message
news:2e50789c.0404021210.48086442@posting.google.com...
> Gurus,
>
> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
> What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
My recommendation is to get certified. I would recommend becoming Solaris
and Red Hat Certified, since those two operating systems comprise the
greatest number of UNIX and Linux installations respectively.
Recommendations given by others are good - infinite patience, programming
skills, and so on.
As for "flavors" don't get stuck on just one - be ready to switch and adapt.
Which variant of UNIX or Linux you wind up administering has more to do with
the corporation than it does with you.
I also recommend getting some UNIX and Linux systems into your house so you
can work on them and learn off-hours - SPARCstation 20s can be had for
$30-50 and can run Solaris 8, Solaris 9, and several Linux variants
(including Debian and Gentoo) and even BSD (including OpenBSD and NetBSD).
SUN Ultra 5s are just a little more and can run the upcoming Solaris 10 and
even more Linux variants.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-05, 8:36 pm |
| On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:28 -0500, David Douthitt <ddouthitt@cuna.coop> wrote:
>
> "New Guy" <kshop@adnohr.net> wrote in message
> news:2e50789c.0404021210.48086442@posting.google.com...
>
>
> My recommendation is to get certified. I would recommend becoming Solaris
> and Red Hat Certified, since those two operating systems comprise the
> greatest number of UNIX and Linux installations respectively.
Well, that'll get you past the HR folks, but once you get into the
interview with the techie person, certifications don't mean all that
much. The RHCE is a very complete test, but even still it's more book
learning than it is a test of how good of a sysadmin you'll be.
> Recommendations given by others are good - infinite patience, programming
> skills, and so on.
Yup, that helps.
> As for "flavors" don't get stuck on just one - be ready to switch and adapt.
> Which variant of UNIX or Linux you wind up administering has more to do with
> the corporation than it does with you.
One thing that I like to ask when interviewing someone is what their home
network looks like. A mix of different OS's and system types, all
talking together (be prepared to name details because bluffing would be
astonishingly bad in this case) are a definite plus. "Well, I have a
T1 feed coming in over 802.11b from the neighbor's house, into a linksys
router doing port forwarding to, depending on the service, either the
Linux box, the iMac, the Alpha, the SGI, or one of the Ultra5's. I use
one Ultra5's as a controller for the disk array, and as an nfs/samba
fileserver, while the others are used as application servers, except for
the windows box which is for a couple of games"...that sort of thing.
If you can show that you can get this stuff working nice together at home,
you learn a hell of a lot, and any sysadmin/interviewer that you'd want to
work for is going to understand and recognize the sort of work and learning
that you've put into to get it up and running. Like I said though, make sure
you can back up your claims with specific details when you're asked.
It's a fun and challenging and frustrating and interesting job. It
beats working, but you have to be the right type of person do do it
well and to do it for long.
Dave Hinz
>
> I also recommend getting some UNIX and Linux systems into your house so you
> can work on them and learn off-hours - SPARCstation 20s can be had for
> $30-50 and can run Solaris 8, Solaris 9, and several Linux variants
> (including Debian and Gentoo) and even BSD (including OpenBSD and NetBSD).
> SUN Ultra 5s are just a little more and can run the upcoming Solaris 10 and
> even more Linux variants.
>
>
>
| |
| Tugger 2004-04-06, 8:44 am |
| Dave Hinz wrote:
> One thing that I like to ask when interviewing someone is what their home
> network looks like.
That's a really great interview question I'd never thought of before. I
can see it now:
"Can you describe your home network?"
"Home network?"
"Next!"
| |
| Michael Heiming 2004-04-06, 8:44 am |
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Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:28 -0500, David Douthitt <ddouthitt@cuna.coop> wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Well, that'll get you past the HR folks, but once you get into the
> interview with the techie person, certifications don't mean all that
> much. The RHCE is a very complete test, but even still it's more book
> learning than it is a test of how good of a sysadmin you'll be.
You did take the exam? It' AFAIR about 1 hour multiple choice,
you might be able to learn and then 5-6 hours of real world lab
tests on a system. Most people failed miserable, they didn't have
the required experience.
[..]
--
Michael Heiming - RHCE (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)
Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
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| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-06, 9:35 am |
| On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:48:15 +0200, Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote:
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>
> Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>
> You did take the exam? It' AFAIR about 1 hour multiple choice,
> you might be able to learn and then 5-6 hours of real world lab
> tests on a system.
Unfortunately, my employer at the time felt that the crisis-of-the-week
was more important (to them) than me finishing the class, so I was yanked
out of it to fix something that didn't matter days later, let alone now.
Not annoyed by that though, nope, not me.
> Most people failed miserable, they didn't have the required experience.
Some very experienced folks failed miserable too, 10 years of SunOS/
Solaris doesn't help with redhat-specifics, for instance. I guess
what I'm saying is it's a test that, in order to pass, you have to
be good at learning for and passing tests, but practical knowledge
counts much more.
Dave Hinz
| |
| Sir Chewbury Gubbins 2004-04-06, 12:34 pm |
| New Guy <kshop@adnohr.net> wrote:
> Gurus,
>
> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
No offence intended, but **why**?? There are so many more interesting
things you could be doing....
Choobs
--
Sir Chewbury Gubbins <chewbury.gubbins@nelefa.org>
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
http://www.nelefa.org
| |
| Michael Heiming 2004-04-06, 1:35 pm |
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Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:48:15 +0200, Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote:
[..][color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> Unfortunately, my employer at the time felt that the crisis-of-the-week
> was more important (to them) than me finishing the class, so I was yanked
> out of it to fix something that didn't matter days later, let alone now.
> Not annoyed by that though, nope, not me.
What a pity. If possible you should try to get another
opportunity, I really enjoyed the week.
[color=darkred]
> Some very experienced folks failed miserable too, 10 years of SunOS/
> Solaris doesn't help with redhat-specifics, for instance. I guess
There's not much redhat specific knowledge needed, I had never
used RH before the course (4 days + 1day exam). Albeit things
might be complicated, if you are not used to work with multiple
different *nix, including one or another Linux distro.
> what I'm saying is it's a test that, in order to pass, you have to
> be good at learning for and passing tests, but practical knowledge
> counts much more.
Didn't prepared myself or learned before the exam, IMHO any
halfway experienced *nix admin with some Linux knowledge,
preferable on a rpm based distro should be able to pass it.
There's nothing in the exam, which couldn't be told day to day
work for an admin. I agree that the "practical knowledge" is most
important, if one can work out anything straight from a VT, there
should be no problem passing it. Sadly one isn't allowed, due to
several NDA he has to sign, to tell anything specific about the
exam. Even if I don't believe those NDA are worth a straw, since
they were not written in my native language, but then, I won't
test it out.
;)
Regards
--
Michael Heiming - RHCE (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)
Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
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| |
| Steve Rikli 2004-04-06, 3:37 pm |
| Tugger <t459@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Dave Hinz wrote:
>
>
>That's a really great interview question I'd never thought of before. I
>can see it now:
>
>"Can you describe your home network?"
>
>"Home network?"
>
>"Next!"
Amen, brother.
Another of my favorites:
"Letherman or Gerber?"
Wrt books, others have already mentioned The Bible (Nemeth, et al); for
other reading I've been recommending:
The Practice of System and Network Administration
by Thomas A. Limoncelli (Author), Christine Hogan (Author)
ISBN: 0201702711
This isn't so much of a techie "how to install/configure foo" implementation
sort of book; more on the "why"s and theories and methodologies.
The Unix Guide to Defenestration
by Murph P. Murphy
http://www.winface.com/index.html
Murph's book is also not really a "how to" book, but doesn't lack for it.
cheers,
sr.
--
|| Steve Rikli ||| They will tell you that you are doing a ||
|| Systems Administrator ||| great job, right up until they walk you ||
|| ||| to the door. ||
|| sr@genyosha.net ||| - Mike MacDonald ||
| |
|
| On 2004-04-06, Steve Rikli <sr@genyosha.net> wrote:
> Tugger <t459@hotmail.com> wrote:
``One laptop, the rest is in deep storage.''
Well, how do I score? ;-)
[color=darkred]
> Amen, brother.
>
> Another of my favorites:
>
> "Letherman or Gerber?"
Victorinox. Lost it, and I'm really missing the corkscrew.
Then again, with enough Quality[tm] hotswap autoslide hotplug rackmount
gear around, I get by quite well with two screwdrivers and a label
printer. Did I mention I *like* Quality[tm] rackmount gear?
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
Missing out on Proper[tm] interviews for fun and profit!
| |
|
| On 2004-04-06, Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
[snippety]
> Unfortunately, my employer at the time felt that the crisis-of-the-week
> was more important (to them) than me finishing the class, so I was yanked
> out of it to fix something that didn't matter days later, let alone now.
> Not annoyed by that though, nope, not me.
>
>
> Some very experienced folks failed miserable too, 10 years of SunOS/
> Solaris doesn't help with redhat-specifics, for instance.
Feh. I know my way around quite well on various *BSDs and linuxen, but
the first time I really had to poke inside a fresh sol9 install was
very much like being forced to touch-type a dvorak keyboard for the
first time. Such excercises are good at making one's brain explode.
I'd expect the other way around won't be that different.
> I guess
> what I'm saying is it's a test that, in order to pass, you have to
> be good at learning for and passing tests, but practical knowledge
> counts much more.
A rosetta's stone of unix and some quality time with the manual is
also very welcome. Unfortunately I haven't yet seen the more brain
dead bits of redhat system configuration documented properly. Then
again, it's not like I'm actively looking for that just right now.
Looking over this, and remembering my looking at various certifications
I can both see why vendors like them so much and why I don't: often they
are poor propaganda in disguise. Thus, certifications from one vendor
alone are worth less than the paper they're printed on, only when you
have a bunch they start to be somewhat interesting.
In other news, it is much more interesting to talk to the person and see
if he/she/it is capable of intelligible conversation, including but not
limited to pertaining the field of claimed experience.
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
| |
|
| Sir Chewbury Gubbins wrote...
>
>No offence intended, but **why**?? There are so many more interesting
>things you could be doing....
free air conditioning in the server room if you're working in a hot place
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-06, 7:34 pm |
| On 6 Apr 2004 19:13:53 GMT, Steve Rikli <sr@genyosha.net> wrote:
> Tugger <t459@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Another of my favorites: "Letherman or Gerber?"
Leatherman, of course.
> This isn't so much of a techie "how to install/configure foo" implementation
> sort of book; more on the "why"s and theories and methodologies.
>
> The Unix Guide to Defenestration
> by Murph P. Murphy
> http://www.winface.com/index.html
Hm, must check this one out. Work just bought me a Samba3 book (yeah, I
know, but I like dead trees), maybe they'd kick for this one too.
Dave "Might as well ask 'vi or emacs' while we're at it" Hinz
| |
| Timothy J. Bogart 2004-04-06, 8:38 pm |
| Dave Hinz wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2004 19:13:53 GMT, Steve Rikli <sr@genyosha.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Leatherman, of course.
>
>
>
>
> Hm, must check this one out. Work just bought me a Samba3 book (yeah, I
> know, but I like dead trees), maybe they'd kick for this one too.
>
> Dave "Might as well ask 'vi or emacs' while we're at it" Hinz
>
I saw a guy frog marched out of the organization after quoting from that
to the wrong people in organization.
Definately recommend it.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-06, 10:36 pm |
| On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:18:35 -0600, Timothy J. Bogart <tbogart@frii.net> wrote:
> Dave Hinz wrote:
> I saw a guy frog marched out of the organization after quoting from that
> to the wrong people in organization.
I was asked once in a job interview what I thought of Windows. Figuring
I'd rather be honest and happy than get stuck working on things I'd
rather avoid, I responded something like "It's fine for some desktops,
I suppose, but it has no place in a data center." Turned out that the
interviewer in question was even more of a *nix enthusiast than I am,
so that went over just fine. Got the job, even.
They didn't tell me that the last sysadmin's lunch was still in the
fridge, though, and that it'd been months since he had 'left for
a better place'. We ended up scrapping the fridge.
The only lesson that can be drawn from the otherwise pointless
paragraph or two above, is that one should always ask if there is
some dead guy's lunch in the departmental refrigerator, in addition
to the normal questions about the organization and job responsibility.
Dave "I did get a good stash of his magazines out of the lab, though" Hinz
| |
| Randal L. Schwartz 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| >>>>> "New" == New Guy <kshop@adnohr.net> writes:
New> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
New> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
You want root on a box? http://www.rootshell.com/
:-)
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment PERL training!
| |
| joe durusau 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
|
"Randal L. Schwartz" wrote:
>
> New> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> New> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
>
> You want root on a box? http://www.rootshell.com/
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
> <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment PERL training!
Dear new: You get to be a system administrator by someone hiring you
to do that job. It's like anything else.
Speaking only for myself,
Joe Durusau
| |
| Daniel Rudy 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| And somewhere around the time of 04/02/2004 12:10, the world stopped and
listened as New Guy contributed the following to humanity:
> Gurus,
>
> I will be finishing college with (hopefully) my bachelor in computer
> sciences in hand. I want to become a Unix system administrator.
>
> I have worked in school on different flavors, mostly HP-UX but our
> teacher never got into deep about any topics. We touched hardware,
> network but did mostly shell scripting.
>
> What is the best curriculum that you suggest so I can best prepared?
> Should I focus on programming? Performance tuning? Backup and
> recovery? High availability?
>
> Please provide me with some pointers. I am very "wet behind the ears"
> and appreciate all the help I can get.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ks
I do my own sysadmin work on my LAN at home going on 5 years now. The
title of System Administrator is a varied one. Here's a list of things
that I do:
1. Write sh/ksh script programs and C/Pascal binary programs.
2. Install, configure, change, upgrade, and remove software.
3. Install, configure, and upgrade the operating system.
4. Configure and compile a custom kernel to match the system hardware
and any additional options that me/users/system might need.
5. Maintain system security (proxy, firewall, etc).
6. Maintain the LAN, the Switch, and any devices connected to it.
7. Perform routine backups, and restore the system in case of failure.
8. Maintain the following services: DNS, DHCP, NTP, NAT, PPP, SMTP,
POP3, NNTP, HTTP, FTP, SSH, Telnet, NFS, NIS, IRC, Samba, etc.
9. Tune the system for maximum performance.
10. Teach people how to utilize the system efficently.
11. Help users on performing tasks.
12. Correct system problems that users report.
And the list goes on and on and on. You need to be willing to learn new
things, and you need to be willing to go out and research information on
your own about how to do things.
The best bet for you would be to buy a couple of books on Unix. I
recommend something from either Sobel, or O'Riley. Get a computer,
install Unix on it (FreeBSD would probably be best as it is a good
system to learn on.) such as one of the BSDs, Linux, or Solaris x86, sit
down at the machine and play with it. That's how I learned.
Remember, it does take alot of effort to get things up and running, to
learn about the system, to learn how it works, and how to fix it when
something breaks. We were all "wet behind the ears" once, we were all
beginners once. So relax and take your time.
--
Daniel Rudy
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
| |
| Sir Chewbury Gubbins 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| Harry <harryooopotter@hotmail.co_> wrote:
> Sir Chewbury Gubbins wrote...
>
>
> free air conditioning in the server room if you're working in a hot place
Of course - free air conditioning for all those long Saturday and Sunday
afternoons you'll be spending in the machine room trying to work out why
the person in the job before ever thought it was a good idea to install
an exchange server 
Choobs
--
Sir Chewbury Gubbins <chewbury.gubbins@nelefa.org>
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
http://www.nelefa.org
| |
| Steve Rikli 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| In article <c4vegs$2mh9gs$1@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On 6 Apr 2004 19:13:53 GMT, Steve Rikli <sr@genyosha.net> wrote:
>
>Leatherman, of course.
Heh, while I respect your preference, remember that we were talking about
sysadmin interview questions.
I.e. the point here was much the same as the "home network" question. So
IMO, as long as the candidate knows one from the other, can tell you why
he carries the one he does, and (preferably) can pull it out of the holster
and show it to you in the interview even if he's wearing a suit, that's
a good answer.
Gerber, btw. ;-)
>
>Hm, must check this one out. Work just bought me a Samba3 book (yeah, I
>know, but I like dead trees), maybe they'd kick for this one too.
I've considered springing for copies out of my own pocket for various
management people. Making the generous assumption they can read things
other than Word/Eccel/PowerPointless, of course.
cheers,
sr.
--
|| Steve Rikli ||| The whole world is about three drinks ||
|| Systems Administrator ||| behind. ||
|| ||| ||
|| sr@genyosha.net ||| - Humphrey Bogart ||
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| On 10 Apr 2004 05:02:39 GMT, Steve Rikli <sr@genyosha.net> wrote:
> In article <c4vegs$2mh9gs$1@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> Heh, while I respect your preference, remember that we were talking about
> sysadmin interview questions.
Yes, and this is a pretty valid one actually. It's more of a meta-question,
doesn't matter what the answer is but it matters how it's reacted to.
"A what or a what???" would be a bad response, for instance.
> I.e. the point here was much the same as the "home network" question. So
> IMO, as long as the candidate knows one from the other, can tell you why
> he carries the one he does, and (preferably) can pull it out of the holster
> and show it to you in the interview even if he's wearing a suit, that's
> a good answer.
Well, the home network question is more of a practical "show me how you can
get systems of different types to play together" kind of thing. CUPS server
here, Samba there, LDAP in another place, raid array for something else,
firewalling - these are, of course, all directly work-related skills.
Don't get me wrong, I've known plenty of good sysadmins who don't _have_
a home network per se, and who would answer that question with a "Well,
I have a machine or 2, but home time isn't work time so I don't play
too much at that level" which is a valid answer too.
> Gerber, btw. ;-)
Heathen.
Dave Hinz
| |
| S. Anthony Sequeira 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:14:51 +0000, Dave Hinz penned:
>
> Yes, and this is a pretty valid one actually. It's more of a
> meta-question, doesn't matter what the answer is but it matters how it's
> reacted to. "A what or a what???" would be a bad response, for instance.
I'm guessing this is a US-centric thang. My guess is that outside the US
you *would* get "a what or a what???".
I had to look them up on the web. Just what do "swiss army"
(European geddit) knives have to do with system administration pray tell?
Cheers
--
Tony
Experience is directly proportional to the cost of the equipment ruined.
| |
| Timothy J. Bogart 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| S. Anthony Sequeira wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:14:51 +0000, Dave Hinz penned:
>
>
>
>
> I'm guessing this is a US-centric thang. My guess is that outside the US
> you *would* get "a what or a what???".
>
> I had to look them up on the web. Just what do "swiss army"
> (European geddit) knives have to do with system administration pray tell?
>
> Cheers
Not a freaking thing, of course. Think of it as kind of a 'nudge,
nudge, wink, wink' sort of thing. If someone responds and knows what
you are talking about, you can then go on at great length about how cool
people are that know this kind of stuff.
I gather it is practised most by Windows admins ....
<ducking and running 8-)>
| |
| Mikael Holm 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| In article <40787fd3$0$200$75868355@news.frii.net>, Timothy J. Bogart wrote:
> S. Anthony Sequeira wrote:
> Not a freaking thing, of course. Think of it as kind of a 'nudge,
> nudge, wink, wink' sort of thing. If someone responds and knows what
> you are talking about, you can then go on at great length about how cool
> people are that know this kind of stuff.
All multitools from Gerber, Leatherman and Victorinox include screwdrivers
which are handy tools for opening computer chassis...
--
Mr. Mikael Holm, +358505862479, +358445862479
mikael.holm(a)lut.fi, http://www2.lut.fi/~holm/
Pellonmäenraitti 5 B 12, FI-53850 LAPPEENRANTA
| |
| S. Anthony Sequeira 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:27:11 +0000, Mikael Holm penned:
> All multitools from Gerber, Leatherman and Victorinox include screwdrivers
> which are handy tools for opening computer chassis...
Just what is wrong with *gasp* a screwdriver. Isn't it the Unix
philosophy, a tool for a job, rather than a humongous tool for many jobs?
And please don't mention emacs.
--
Tony
Experience is directly proportional to the cost of the equipment ruined.
| |
| Mikael Holm 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| In article <pan.2004.04.11.10.46.18.295683@sequeira.com>, S. Anthony
Sequeira wrote:
> Just what is wrong with *gasp* a screwdriver. Isn't it the Unix
> philosophy, a tool for a job, rather than a humongous tool for many jobs?
And just after i said it i remembered that i need at least 3 different
kind of screwdrivers to get around for example Ultra 1 (i have opened one
a couple times) while general pcs can be repaired with one general type
phillips screwdriver.
--
Mr. Mikael Holm, +358505862479, +358445862479
mikael.holm(a)lut.fi, http://www2.lut.fi/~holm/
Pellonmäenraitti 5 B 12, FI-53850 LAPPEENRANTA
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:46:18 +0100, S. Anthony Sequeira <tony@sequeira.com> wrote:
>
> Just what is wrong with *gasp* a screwdriver. Isn't it the Unix
> philosophy, a tool for a job, rather than a humongous tool for many jobs?
One tool which can be applied to many purposes, and it's highly portable
(walking around with a screwdriver, and a pliers, and this and that and
the other is inconvenient when they're seperate). It's one of
those things that, once you have one, you can't understand how you got
along without it. A few years ago, I spent several months working in
England, and brought mine along of course. By the time I had left, I had
had about a dozen of them sent to me for guys there who had seen it in use
and needed to have one. Funded my beer expenses with the profits, even,
so good news all around.
And yes, I promise not to mention emacs.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:46:18 +0100, S. Anthony Sequeira <tony@sequeira.com> wrote:
>
> Just what is wrong with *gasp* a screwdriver. Isn't it the Unix
> philosophy, a tool for a job, rather than a humongous tool for many jobs?
One tool which can be applied to many purposes, and it's highly portable
(walking around with a screwdriver, and a pliers, and this and that and
the other is inconvenient when they're seperate). It's one of
those things that, once you have one, you can't understand how you got
along without it. A few years ago, I spent several months working in
England, and brought mine along of course. By the time I had left, I had
had about a dozen of them sent to me for guys there who had seen it in use
and needed to have one. Funded my beer expenses with the profits, even,
so good news all around.
And yes, I promise not to mention emacs.
| |
| Chris 'Saundo' Saunderson 2004-04-11, 3:28 pm |
| On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:46:18 +0100, S. Anthony Sequeira wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:27:11 +0000, Mikael Holm penned:
>
>
> Just what is wrong with *gasp* a screwdriver. Isn't it the Unix
> philosophy, a tool for a job, rather than a humongous tool for many jobs?
You misunderstand the analogy. A multi-tool *is* an instance of the Unix
operating system - lots of tools, each specialized to do one thing well,
that can be put together to do lots of things.
> And please don't mention emacs.
Emacs.
:-)
Saundo
--
Chris "Saundo" Saunderson saundo@earthlink.net
Unix/CCNA/CCDA Guy Powered by Linux and the Orb.
| |
| Doug Freyburger 2004-04-12, 9:44 am |
| S. Anthony Sequeira wrote:
>
There's a good reason for chosing the Gerber over the Leatherman
and it's why I switched to the Gerber about 5-6 years ago. The
Leatherman's screwdriver adapter is a separate unit so carrying
it means two items on your belt. The Gerber's screwdriver
adapter replaces the belt pounch with another belt pouch the
same size but slightly thicker. Also putting the parts together
on the Gerber is slightly easier than on the Leatherman. For
SAs in particular Gerber tends to win for these reasons. Picking
Leatherman, more often than not, is a sign of having under 10
years of experience in the field, not a major disqualifier ;^).
But as long as there's a good reason for picking one over the
other, that's all that's needed in an interview. Any good
reasons beat "I saw a friend carrying one so I got one to fit
in."
[color=darkred]
> Just what do "swiss army" (European geddit) knives have to do
> with system administration pray tell?
SA work includes some amount of hardware. You never know when a
server or desktop will die and you'll need to open it up. Even
if you have the best support contracts around the need can come
up on occasion. I've done Sun PS work at a Platinum customer and
I've used my Gerber to fix something before the SE could arrive.
Regular Swiss Army knives have a fixed number of screwdriver
adapters. Any multiplier carried by a Unix SA should have an
adapter for modular bits. None of the adapter kits come with an
assortment of Torx (10, 15 and 25) nor do they come with 0 and 1
sized Philips, so go to a hardware store and get the bits you'll
most likely need. Ever since I switched to a Gerber with that
assortment of bits, I haven't needed a toolbox to fix any problem
that didn't need an on-site SE or that couldn't wait for one to
arrive. A disaster that can't be fixed with a Gerber is going to
take most of the IT staff getting paged.
Multipliers are the classic Unix pattern. While a Swiss Army
knife is a big gadget that tries to do everything, good
multipliers that have adapters are just a chassis that holds
modules that do one job well. No need to force a #2 Phillips
into a #15 Torx screw because that's all your Victronox has.
Snap on the #15 Torx and you have the right tool for the job.
Amusing story: I'd worn out the belt pouch of my first Gerber
multiplier so I had given the multiplier away to a friend and I
had bought the newest model. Of course I'd gone to a hardware
store to get the smaller Torx and Philips bits so it worked for
me. A few days later I was drinking a mug of Guinness at a pub.
A guy came up to me and said "I see you have a new Gerber but
the spot on your belt is worn enough that it's a replacement.
You must be a plumber, too. Isn't it a pain that the bits they
come with are too small so you have to go to a hardware store
to get bigger ones?" I laughed and showed him my smaller bits.
A good time was had by all and more Guinness was consumed in
friendship. That was my second one. I'm now on my third one.
Sure enough I'd worn out the web pouch of the second one from
crawling around under data center floors and given the still
good Gerber to a colleague.
| |
| Timothy J. Bogart 2004-04-12, 9:40 pm |
| Doug Freyburger wrote:
> S. Anthony Sequeira wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> SA work includes some amount of hardware. You never know when a
> server or desktop will die and you'll need to open it up. Even
> if you have the best support contracts around the need can come
> up on occasion. I've done Sun PS work at a Platinum customer and
> I've used my Gerber to fix something before the SE could arrive.
Agreed.
<snip>
>
> Multipliers are the classic Unix pattern. While a Swiss Army
> knife is a big gadget that tries to do everything, good
> multipliers that have adapters are just a chassis that holds
> modules that do one job well. No need to force a #2 Phillips
> into a #15 Torx screw because that's all your Victronox has.
> Snap on the #15 Torx and you have the right tool for the job.
Welllllll, I would have to say this is perverting the analogy a tad. The
original UNIX folks, as I read them, believed in standalone tools of
high quality, which could be used all by themselves if needed, or
combined in an elegant way with other tools. A multi-plier or swiss army
knife is always going to be a serious compromise over an individual
tool to gain the 'benefit' of ease of access.
I have to admit I may have a Freudian bias on this, as not only was my
father a machinist and aircraft mechanic - but we didn't even have an
enclyclopedia in the house until after I was in college, because he
didn't want any of the kids to use such a 'shortcut' rather than doing
original research. He would barely tolerate the existence ot an
adustable wrench, and simply wouldn't have any 'all in one' solutions
around.
All that aside, the only person I have known to carry one of these in 20
years of dealing with the care of computers at work (part time or full)
does not happen to fit in one of the top 5 admins I have ever known -
nor would he claim to be. So, again, I just don't see this as a
particularly relevent data point.
>
> Amusing story: I'd worn out the belt pouch of my first Gerber
<snip>
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-12, 9:40 pm |
| On 12 Apr 2004 06:38:17 -0700, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There's a good reason for chosing the Gerber over the Leatherman
> and it's why I switched to the Gerber about 5-6 years ago. The
> Leatherman's screwdriver adapter is a separate unit so carrying
> it means two items on your belt.
/me digs in pocket
/me opens leatherman
/me tries to figure out what Doug means, what with the 4 screwdriver
bits ready to be used right in said Leatherman
> Also putting the parts together
> on the Gerber is slightly easier than on the Leatherman.
Parts? Together?
> But as long as there's a good reason for picking one over the
> other, that's all that's needed in an interview. Any good
> reasons beat "I saw a friend carrying one so I got one to fit
> in."
Well sure. If they can't back up their decision with something
either rational, or at least fervent, forget it. Even if we
disagree, at least it'll make for interesting arguments later, which
of course is going to happen so you might as well get an idea of their
style.
Dave
| |
| Frank Cusack 2004-04-13, 1:40 am |
| On 12 Apr 2004 06:38:17 -0700 dfreybur@yahoo.com (Doug Freyburger) wrote:
> S. Anthony Sequeira wrote:
>
> There's a good reason for chosing the Gerber over the Leatherman
> and it's why I switched to the Gerber about 5-6 years ago. The
Yeah, Gerber is definitely better but I stick with the leatherman
anyway. The only thing the leatherman doesn't really have is locking
screwdrivers (maybe newer models do?) which really really stinks but
the leatherman (wave) has a much better feel in the hand (this part is
probably most subject to personal preference but I always wonder at
people who disagree) so for me it's the winner. If you're willing to
carry about the extra little case for torx bits and a p0, it's not
bad. I still lose the bits though, blah. If you are skilled at
leather work (or a friend is) I'm sure you could fashion a custom
single pouch holster for the leatherman.
I love the way the blade opens on the wave. Cut myself the very first
time I tried it fast, but I'm a pro now. I put a little dab of paint
on the one side to make sure I'm not opening the sawtooth. You can
tell them apart (by feel or sight) but the mark helps.
> Amusing story:
Quite!
/fc
| |
| Mike Delaney 2004-04-13, 2:36 am |
| On 13 Apr 2004 01:37:49 GMT in <c5fg9d$118v7$2@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Dave Hinz said something similar to:
: On 12 Apr 2004 06:38:17 -0700, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
: >
: > There's a good reason for chosing the Gerber over the Leatherman
: > and it's why I switched to the Gerber about 5-6 years ago. The
: > Leatherman's screwdriver adapter is a separate unit so carrying
: > it means two items on your belt.
:
: /me digs in pocket
: /me opens leatherman
: /me tries to figure out what Doug means, what with the 4 screwdriver
: bits ready to be used right in said Leatherman
:
: > Also putting the parts together
: > on the Gerber is slightly easier than on the Leatherman.
:
: Parts? Together?
He's refering to the collar that accepts the hex-base electric screwdriver
style bits. Gerber's version, IIRC, comes with the tool and fits over one
of the fold-out screwdriver blades. Leatherman's is a contraption that
somehow clamps onto the plier jaws, and is an extra-cost accessory.
Personally, I don't really see a big need - if the Wave can't handle the
job itself, I'll wander over to where I left my laptop bag and fish the
interchangeable bit screwdriver out of the tool pocket.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-13, 8:40 am |
| On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:33:54 -0500, Mike Delaney <mdelan@computer.org> wrote:
> On 13 Apr 2004 01:37:49 GMT in <c5fg9d$118v7$2@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> Dave Hinz said something similar to:
>:
>: Parts? Together?
>
> He's refering to the collar that accepts the hex-base electric screwdriver
> style bits.
Ah, right. Don't have that, just don't see the need. This covers 90%+ of
the situations, after which I get the "real tools".
> Personally, I don't really see a big need - if the Wave can't handle the
> job itself, I'll wander over to where I left my laptop bag and fish the
> interchangeable bit screwdriver out of the tool pocket.
Mine's the classic Leatherman from when there was only two choices;
silver or black. Hasn't broken or worn out so I haven't considered
replacing it. Maybe someday.
Dave "we're not even vaguely on topic anymore, I think" Hinz
| |
| Doug Freyburger 2004-04-13, 9:49 am |
| Frank Cusack wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>
> the leatherman (wave) has a much better feel in the hand
Perfect example of why a good reason beats agreement. Spending
much time in multi-vendor data centers that include plenty of HP
equipment having the exact Torx bit on hand beats hand feel for
me but that's completely subjective. Sure I could go to a tool
box but as a contractor/consultant I've impressed customers by
coming equiped on my own, something that wouldn't matter to a
captive employee.
> If you're willing to carry about the extra little case for torx
> bits and a p0, it's not bad. I still lose the bits though, blah.
The Leatherman has a separate unit. The Gerber replaces the simple
web pouch for one that has an extra pocket to fit the small adapter,
so I've never lost a bit. Even when I've worn out the web pouch
the exact same bits where in it when I gave the Gerber away.
> I love the way the blade opens on the wave. Cut myself the very first
> time I tried it fast, but I'm a pro now. I put a little dab of paint
> on the one side to make sure I'm not opening the sawtooth. You can
> tell them apart (by feel or sight) but the mark helps.
Great idea. Thnx.
| |
| New Guy 2004-04-14, 2:37 pm |
| Holy Macro!
Thanks a gazillion for the input. I did not expect to get some many
enlightened answers.
Thanks a lot!!
new guy.
| |
| Daniel Rudy 2004-04-14, 2:37 pm |
| And somewhere around the time of 04/13/2004 08:12, the world stopped and
listened as New Guy contributed the following to humanity:
> Holy Macro!
>
> Thanks a gazillion for the input. I did not expect to get some many
> enlightened answers.
>
> Thanks a lot!!
>
> new guy.
No problem. Welcome to the fold.
--
Daniel Rudy
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
| |
| Sundaram Ramasamy 2004-04-14, 4:44 pm |
| Daniel Rudy <dcrudy@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote in message news:<%iVec.22179$Lv.15081@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>...
> And somewhere around the time of 04/13/2004 08:12, the world stopped and
> listened as New Guy contributed the following to humanity:
>
>
> No problem. Welcome to the fold.
Mostly I Install/Upgrade/Tune the Operating System and Application.
For debuging you need some LAN knowdge
| |
|
| Sir Chewbury Gubbins wrote...
>Of course - free air conditioning for all those long Saturday and Sunday
>afternoons you'll be spending in the machine room trying to work out why
>the person in the job before ever thought it was a good idea to install
>an exchange server
One of my developer fellow workers has the following on his signature line.
All bugs will be fixed and be replaced by new ones.
There is no exception for the world of system admin.
They fix mess, they also create mess, either by chosing one kind of
email server or the others.
In fact, many employees (admin or not) do their jobs, and create jobs
for themselves and/or for other people. This is job security.
| |
| jalvin 2004-04-18, 10:42 am |
| Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<c4stip$2n0ol1$4@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>...[vbcol=seagreen]
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:28 -0500, David Douthitt <ddouthitt@cuna.coop> wrote:
>
> Well, that'll get you past the HR folks, but once you get into the
> interview with the techie person, certifications don't mean all that
> much. The RHCE is a very complete test, but even still it's more book
> learning than it is a test of how good of a sysadmin you'll be.
>
>
> Yup, that helps.
>
>
> One thing that I like to ask when interviewing someone is what their home
> network looks like. A mix of different OS's and system types, all
> talking together (be prepared to name details because bluffing would be
> astonishingly bad in this case) are a definite plus. "Well, I have a
> T1 feed coming in over 802.11b from the neighbor's house, into a linksys
> router doing port forwarding to, depending on the service, either the
> Linux box, the iMac, the Alpha, the SGI, or one of the Ultra5's. I use
> one Ultra5's as a controller for the disk array, and as an nfs/samba
> fileserver, while the others are used as application servers, except for
> the windows box which is for a couple of games"...that sort of thing.
>
> If you can show that you can get this stuff working nice together at home,
> you learn a hell of a lot, and any sysadmin/interviewer that you'd want to
> work for is going to understand and recognize the sort of work and learning
> that you've put into to get it up and running. Like I said though, make sure
> you can back up your claims with specific details when you're asked.
>
> It's a fun and challenging and frustrating and interesting job. It
> beats working, but you have to be the right type of person do do it
> well and to do it for long.
>
> Dave Hinz
>
Hi,
Firstly let me disagree with Dave on the RHCE, its a practical exam
one of only two in the industry, the exam is a day of hell that will
pull sweat from every pour. It is a very good test of how good an
administrator you will be. I run a team of 40 techies, not one MCSE
in the place I am proud to say as this is a waste of time in my
opinon, if someone comes into me for an interview with an RHCE I take
them seriously. Anyway I would say all that as I run
http://www.rhce.org.uk.
I strongly recommend that you start buy learning IP inside and out.
No matter what the system, IP is going to be Key not only that but it
teach's you load about networking and the basic principals of
communications and computing.
A good book is the "Practical TCP/IP: Designing, Using, and
Troubleshooting TCP/IP Networks on Linux and Windows". If you can
afford it you might want to try a CCNA course.
I agree that setting up some box's at home is a good idea but dont
forget VMWARE, one of the great pieces of modern software. This will
allow you to run multiple OS's on one box. I have an entire test
network setup on my laptop.
Once you have mastered IP, then move onto linux properly I would
recommend the RHCE.
Dependant on what sort of person you are choose a programming language
to suit, I would recommend looking at PERL as a starting point and
then maybe Java (the Sun Enterprise Java Architecture courses are
excellent). What ever you choose YOU MUST LEARN XML.
Be prepared to read for the rest of your life and always feel like you
have not caught up with the really good guys (although after about 7
years of constant work with excessive study you will be one of them).
If you can, find a mentor to guide you.
Short synopsis:
Learn IP then LINUX then PERL or / and Java both with some XML, by
then you will know what you need to do.
Hope this helps
Regards
Jalvin
Prepare to be tested
http://www.rhce.org.uk
| |
| Al Dykes 2004-04-18, 10:42 am |
| In article <b958f01c.0404171238.7db9999b@posting.google.com>,
jalvin <jalvin@rhce.org.uk> wrote:
>Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:<c4stip$2n0ol1$4@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>...
<ddouthitt@cuna.coop> wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
switch and adapt.[vbcol=seagreen]
to do with[vbcol=seagreen]
make sure[vbcol=seagreen]
so you[vbcol=seagreen]
Solaris 10 and[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>Hi,
>
>Firstly let me disagree with Dave on the RHCE, its a practical exam
>one of only two in the industry, the exam is a day of hell that will
>pull sweat from every pour. It is a very good test of how good an
>administrator you will be. I run a team of 40 techies, not one MCSE
>in the place I am proud to say as this is a waste of time in my
>opinon, if someone comes into me for an interview with an RHCE I take
>them seriously. Anyway I would say all that as I run
>http://www.rhce.org.uk.
>
>I strongly recommend that you start buy learning IP inside and out.
>No matter what the system, IP is going to be Key not only that but it
>teach's you load about networking and the basic principals of
>communications and computing.
>
>A good book is the "Practical TCP/IP: Designing, Using, and
>Troubleshooting TCP/IP Networks on Linux and Windows". If you can
>afford it you might want to try a CCNA course.
>
>I agree that setting up some box's at home is a good idea but dont
>forget VMWARE, one of the great pieces of modern software. This will
>allow you to run multiple OS's on one box. I have an entire test
>network setup on my laptop.
>
>Once you have mastered IP, then move onto linux properly I would
>recommend the RHCE.
>
>Dependant on what sort of person you are choose a programming language
>to suit, I would recommend looking at PERL as a starting point and
>then maybe Java (the Sun Enterprise Java Architecture courses are
>excellent). What ever you choose YOU MUST LEARN XML.
>
>Be prepared to read for the rest of your life and always feel like you
>have not caught up with the really good guys (although after about 7
>years of constant work with excessive study you will be one of them).
>
>If you can, find a mentor to guide you.
>
>Short synopsis:
>Learn IP then LINUX then PERL or / and Java both with some XML, by
>then you will know what you need to do.
>
>Hope this helps
>
As someone who has managed systems people, the above is good advice.
I'm refreshing my skills set (ie unemployeed) right now,
which is why I'm following this thread.
Please expand on how to get a start with XML with it as a practical
matter.
Thanks
--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m
| |
| Robert Melson 2004-04-18, 10:42 am |
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Saturday 17 April 2004 14:38, jalvin wrote:
> Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:<c4stip$2n0ol1$4@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>...
<snip>[vbcol=seagreen]
> find a mentor to guide you.
>
> Short synopsis:
> Learn IP then LINUX then PERL or / and Java both with some XML, by
> then you will know what you need to do.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
> Jalvin
> Prepare to be tested
> http://www.rhce.org.uk
Given that opinions are like portions of the anatomy --everybody has'em --
I have to disagree with Jalvin WRT his recommendation that you learn Linux,
or a specific flavor of it, anyway.
I will not hire anybody with a vendor certification. Things like that
impress people who are too lazy or ignorant to look beyond a piece of paper
and generally indicate the certificated individual is too narrow a
specialist to be useful in a typical mid-sized shop with multiple UNIX
flavors.
Concentrate on the fundamentals of the 2 major branches of Unix: SVR4 and
BSD (even though the latter is no longer a major force, many of it features
have become standard throughout the industry). Once you have firmly
mastered the basics and know the minor -- and sometimes not so minor --
variations between them (Berkeley sockets vs. SVR4 streams, for example),
then begin learning specific versions of the operating system in more
detail; keep an eye open even then for similarities between, say, HP-UX and
Solaris, and how they might differ from AIX or Tru64 or some other flavor.
As for language, learn Bourne shell scripting; scripting is fundamental to
adminning and Bourne is the lowest common denominator between flavors and
is what is generally available in single-user mode on most platforms.
Build on Bourne and add the Korn enhancements and even the BASH additions
and peculiarities. If yoo're a masochist -- like me -- learn C-shell, but
in all cases only after learning and mastering Bourne.
Learn a structured compiled language, at least to the extent of being able
to read and understand what the programmer had in mind. Some programming
skill is necessary but you are not a programmer. Learn PERL or Python or
both. I tend to favor PERL but YMMV.
Build a personal toolbox of scripts and programs that simplify the things
you do daily. Include tools that help with the things you don't do
regularly but which you need to do from time to time and whose details
you're likely to forget between happenings.
Start collecting a good professional library. I have my selections, but
yours may well be different. The library need not contain 100s of books
but it should contain those you find useful and to which you refer
regularly.
Bob Melson
- --
Robert G. Melson A society of sheep must in time beget a
Rio Grande MicroSolutions government of wolves.
El Paso, Texas Bertrand de Jouvenal
melsonr(at)earthlink(dot)net
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| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-18, 10:42 am |
| On 17 Apr 2004 13:38:16 -0700, jalvin <jalvin@rhce.org.uk> wrote:
> Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<c4stip$2n0ol1$4@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>...
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Firstly let me disagree with Dave on the RHCE, its a practical exam
> one of only two in the industry, the exam is a day of hell that will
> pull sweat from every pour. It is a very good test of how good an
> administrator you will be.
It's a good test _as tests go_, but I've known and worked with people
who were good at passing tests without understanding the topic in reality.
I assume the RHCE has evolved since the Redhat 6.x days, probably for the
better, but tests are still only part of it.
> I run a team of 40 techies, not one MCSE
> in the place I am proud to say as this is a waste of time in my
> opinon, if someone comes into me for an interview with an RHCE I take
> them seriously.
Yes, I take an RHCE seriously, but I'm still going to ask about
actual experience as well. An MCSE would be more of a liability,
truth be told.
> I strongly recommend that you start buy learning IP inside and out.
Agreed. Be prepared for questions like "When would you want to change
the netmask", something that isn't done all that often.
> I agree that setting up some box's at home is a good idea but dont
> forget VMWARE, one of the great pieces of modern software. This will
> allow you to run multiple OS's on one box. I have an entire test
> network setup on my laptop.
Oh, absolutely. VMWare (or whatever EMC is calling it now) is a perfect
fit for any home network. Windows even seems to behave better inside
the VM than it does natively on the system.
> I would recommend looking at PERL as a starting point and
> then maybe Java (the Sun Enterprise Java Architecture courses are
> excellent).
Java? How many sysadmins write in Java as part of their job? Isn't
that what developers are for?
> Be prepared to read for the rest of your life and always feel like you
> have not caught up with the really good guys (although after about 7
> years of constant work with excessive study you will be one of them).
> If you can, find a mentor to guide you.
Absolutely. If you don't have a smart, willing teacher, you can get
bogged down badly. I've moved jobs after my mentor left, just so I could
get to a learning environment again.
Dave Hinz
| |
| Michael Heiming 2004-04-18, 2:34 pm |
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message
jalvin <jalvin@rhce.org.uk> wrote:
> Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<c4stip$2n0ol1$4@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>...
[..]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Firstly let me disagree with Dave on the RHCE, its a practical exam
> one of only two in the industry, the exam is a day of hell that will
> pull sweat from every pour. It is a very good test of how good an
What is the other?
Have to agree about the exam, its really no that easy unless you
have some experience and can work out things in a second or two.
Most in my class failed miserable in the practical test, there's
not much you can learn about it. As you don't know what kind of
problems you have to master, it can be almost anything. They were
pretty good in the multiple choice test but it's AFAIR only 20%
of the exam.
[..]
> Short synopsis:
> Learn IP then LINUX then PERL or / and Java both with some XML, by
> then you will know what you need to do.
I'd suggest learning some shell ksh/bash/etc and most important
learn awk, you'll find it on any *nix system. Don't use the one
that is first (per default) in $PATH on a solaris, only they know
why they have placed it there?
BTW
We can be called lucky, looks like we have lost our resident
prick.;)
--
Michael Heiming - RHCE (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)
Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
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| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-18, 2:34 pm |
| On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:04:02 -0000, Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote:
>
> BTW
> We can be called lucky, looks like we have lost our resident
> prick.;)
Less said about that the better, I think.
| |
| Michael Heiming 2004-04-18, 3:34 pm |
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message
Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:04:02 -0000, Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote:
[ psst! ]
> Less said about that the better, I think.
Full ack! You fear those monotonic rants?
;)
--
Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)
Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
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| |
| Daniel Rudy 2004-04-18, 3:34 pm |
| And somewhere around the time of 04/10/2004 07:14, the world stopped and
listened as Dave Hinz contributed the following to humanity:
> On 10 Apr 2004 05:02:39 GMT, Steve Rikli <sr@genyosha.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes, and this is a pretty valid one actually. It's more of a meta-question,
> doesn't matter what the answer is but it matters how it's reacted to.
> "A what or a what???" would be a bad response, for instance.
>
Hell, I didn't know what you where talking about until I read further.
Personally, what would you think if I said neither? For tools, I perfer
a small to medium sized toolkit, not some swiss army knife setup.
>
> Heathen.
>
--
Daniel Rudy: Curious to know if he would get a job with an answer of
neither.
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-18, 5:34 pm |
| On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:29:08 GMT, Daniel Rudy <dcrudy@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote:
> And somewhere around the time of 04/10/2004 07:14, the world stopped and
> listened as Dave Hinz contributed the following to humanity:
>
>
> Hell, I didn't know what you where talking about until I read further.
> Personally, what would you think if I said neither? For tools, I perfer
> a small to medium sized toolkit, not some swiss army knife setup.
You carry a small to medium sized toolkit with you all the time at work?
Hm. OK, VI or EMACS then? I'm guessing emacs...
| |
| jalvin 2004-04-18, 6:34 pm |
| Dave,
Thanks for your respoonse.
Let me clarify my stance, nothing on this planet beats experience of
building servers and administering them. The reason I like the RHCE
is that in order to pass you have to build lots of different types of
servers, Apache, DNS, NIS, Firewalls etc. this will give you a breath
of understanding that will stand to him when he comes into the real
world and he will understand the impacts they have on each other.
The reason for suggesting Java / XML is the proliferation of
Application Servers e.g. Bea / Jboss / MS whatever, the vast majority
of Sysadmins support some form of application server and suffer the
consequences of bad programming. Learning a language allows you to
troubleshoot performance and other problems much faster particularly
as you can isolate problems as being code realated or not. I have
seen so many occasions where sysadmins and developers disagree where
the "problem" lies, I like my sysadmins to take control and own the
problem and if they do not have a basic understanding of programming
this becomes problematic. Personally I dont like coding but I like
being able to point out to a developer exactly where the problem lies.
regards
jalvin
Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<c5sanq$50vs8$1@ID-134476.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> On 17 Apr 2004 13:38:16 -0700, jalvin <jalvin@rhce.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> It's a good test _as tests go_, but I've known and worked with people
> who were good at passing tests without understanding the topic in reality.
> I assume the RHCE has evolved since the Redhat 6.x days, probably for the
> better, but tests are still only part of it.
>
>
> Yes, I take an RHCE seriously, but I'm still going to ask about
> actual experience as well. An MCSE would be more of a liability,
> truth be told.
>
>
> Agreed. Be prepared for questions like "When would you want to change
> the netmask", something that isn't done all that often.
>
>
> Oh, absolutely. VMWare (or whatever EMC is calling it now) is a perfect
> fit for any home network. Windows even seems to behave better inside
> the VM than it does natively on the system.
>
>
> Java? How many sysadmins write in Java as part of their job? Isn't
> that what developers are for?
>
>
> Absolutely. If you don't have a smart, willing teacher, you can get
> bogged down badly. I've moved jobs after my mentor left, just so I could
> get to a learning environment again.
>
> Dave Hinz
| |
| jalvin 2004-04-18, 6:34 pm |
| Robert Melson <melsonr@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Iwhgc.15032$k05.14836@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Saturday 17 April 2004 14:38, jalvin wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Given that opinions are like portions of the anatomy --everybody has'em --
> I have to disagree with Jalvin WRT his recommendation that you learn Linux,
> or a specific flavor of it, anyway.
>
> I will not hire anybody with a vendor certification. Things like that
> impress people who are too lazy or ignorant to look beyond a piece of paper
> and generally indicate the certificated individual is too narrow a
> specialist to be useful in a typical mid-sized shop with multiple UNIX
> flavors.
>
> Concentrate on the fundamentals of the 2 major branches of Unix: SVR4 and
> BSD (even though the latter is no longer a major force, many of it features
> have become standard throughout the industry). Once you have firmly
> mastered the basics and know the minor -- and sometimes not so minor --
> variations between them (Berkeley sockets vs. SVR4 streams, for example),
> then begin learning specific versions of the operating system in more
> detail; keep an eye open even then for similarities between, say, HP-UX and
> Solaris, and how they might differ from AIX or Tru64 or some other flavor.
>
> As for language, learn Bourne shell scripting; scripting is fundamental to
> adminning and Bourne is the lowest common denominator between flavors and
> is what is generally available in single-user mode on most platforms.
> Build on Bourne and add the Korn enhancements and even the BASH additions
> and peculiarities. If yoo're a masochist -- like me -- learn C-shell, but
> in all cases only after learning and mastering Bourne.
I had kinda taken shell scripting as a given as part of learning
linux, sorry for not clarifying that.
regards jalvin
>
> Learn a structured compiled language, at least to the extent of being able
> to read and understand what the programmer had in mind. Some programming
> skill is necessary but you are not a programmer. Learn PERL or Python or
> both. I tend to favor PERL but YMMV.
>
> Build a personal toolbox of scripts and programs that simplify the things
> you do daily. Include tools that help with the things you don't do
> regularly but which you need to do from time to time and whose details
> you're likely to forget between happenings.
>
> Start collecting a good professional library. I have my selections, but
> yours may well be different. The library need not contain 100s of books
> but it should contain those you find useful and to which you refer
> regularly.
>
> Bob Melson
>
> - --
> Robert G. Melson A society of sheep must in time beget a
> Rio Grande MicroSolutions government of wolves.
> El Paso, Texas Bertrand de Jouvenal
> melsonr(at)earthlink(dot)net
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
> iD8DBQFAgaShGX60pjRVDrMRAhWOAJ47TI4fa8Cg
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> OyE6vIUao/FP2080A8do+64=
> =+h4h
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
| |
| jalvin 2004-04-18, 6:34 pm |
| Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@www.heiming.de> wrote in message news:<ihsal1-kcu.ln1@news.heiming.de>...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message
>
> jalvin <jalvin@rhce.org.uk> wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>
> What is the other?
CCIE - cisco Certified Engineer.
>
> Have to agree about the exam, its really no that easy unless you
> have some experience and can work out things in a second or two.
>
> Most in my class failed miserable in the practical test, there's
> not much you can learn about it. As you don't know what kind of
> problems you have to master, it can be almost anything. They were
> pretty good in the multiple choice test but it's AFAIR only 20%
> of the exam.
>
> [..]
>
>
> I'd suggest learning some shell ksh/bash/etc and most important
> learn awk, you'll find it on any *nix system. Don't use the one
> that is first (per default) in $PATH on a solaris, only they know
> why they have placed it there?
>
I had kinda taken shell scripting as a given as part of learning
linux, sorry for not clarifying that.
regards
jalvin
> BTW
> We can be called lucky, looks like we have lost our resident
> prick.;)
>
> --
> Michael Heiming - RHCE (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)
>
> Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
> inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFAgsMRAkPEju3Se5QRAq22AKCeDhUdaIxJ
bj05dSQMFkn+hMDIuACgy5iw
> M/6n6oFYhVKzTgNtM/qQ3DI=
> =p68o
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
| |
| Tim Haynes 2004-04-19, 5:34 am |
| jalvin@rhce.org.uk (jalvin) writes upside-down:
> Let me clarify my stance, nothing on this planet beats experience of
> building servers and administering them. The reason I like the RHCE is
> that in order to pass you have to build lots of different types of
> servers, Apache, DNS, NIS, Firewalls etc. this will give you a breath of
> understanding that will stand to him when he comes into the real world
> and he will understand the impacts they have on each other.
Pro: you get to install and configure services.
Con: you have to do it The RedHat Way(TM).
Pro: you have to debug a random selection of problems with borked boxes.
Con: you still don't have the experience of having run them in the real
world with a random smattering of DoS or abusive users, having to
rate-limit the service in a way that's fair to valid users, etc.
Debugging ability is highly important, IMO. As an example, you should be
able to take any random IP# port 80/tcp in your jurisdiction, and find out
where it's running from in the filesystem using netstat or lsof (and /proc
entries when on linux to be sure), and work out how it's being started as
well.
[snip]
> Personally I dont like coding but I like being able to point
> out to a developer exactly where the problem lies.
Agreed. I'd say you should also be able to send a diff, for reasonably
small problems, too
~Tim
--
zsh % PERL -ce 'more or less' |piglet@stirfried.vegetable.org.uk
-e syntax OK |http://spodzone.org.uk/
| |
|
| On 2004-04-18, Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> You carry a small to medium sized toolkit with you all the time at work?
Not all sysadmins are consulting sysadmins. Some even have a nice workshop
for disemboweling and gutting recalcitrant hardware.
> Hm. OK, VI or EMACS then? I'm guessing emacs...
Vi here, as emacs is evil (insert quote here).
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
In a shop with lots of playful childr^W^Wdevelopers you need all your
tools bolted and locked down or they go AWOL while you look at them.
| |
| Daniel Rudy 2004-04-20, 8:35 am |
| And somewhere around the time of 04/18/2004 14:33, the world stopped and
listened as Dave Hinz contributed the following to humanity:
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:29:08 GMT, Daniel Rudy <dcrudy@invalid.pacbell.nospam.net.0123456789> wrote:
>
>
>
> You carry a small to medium sized toolkit with you all the time at work?
> Hm. OK, VI or EMACS then? I'm guessing emacs...
>
VI, of course.
--
Daniel Rudy
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2004-04-20, 8:35 am |
| On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:29:02 +0000 (UTC), jpd <read_the_sig@do.not.spam.it> wrote:
> On 2004-04-18, Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> Not all sysadmins are consulting sysadmins. Some even have a nice workshop
> for disemboweling and gutting recalcitrant hardware.
I'm not sure what being a consultant has to do with having a tool
that fits 90% of your needs with you, vs. scurrying off to a toolbox.
>
> Vi here, as emacs is evil (insert quote here).
Just checking.
| |
| Chris F.A. Johnson 2004-04-20, 2:36 pm |
| On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 at 06:29 GMT, jpd wrote:
> On 2004-04-18, Dave Hinz <davehinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> Not all sysadmins are consulting sysadmins. Some even have a nice workshop
> for disemboweling and gutting recalcitrant hardware.
>
>
>
> Vi here, as emacs is evil (insert quote here).
Emacs is evil???
Isn't vi short for dclxvi?
--
Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org/shell
========================================
===========================
My code (if any) in this post is copyright 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson
and may be copied under the terms of the GNU General Public License
| |
| Juha Laiho 2004-04-25, 5:34 am |
| "S. Anthony Sequeira" <tony@sequeira.com> said:
>On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:14:51 +0000, Dave Hinz penned:
>
>I'm guessing this is a US-centric thang. My guess is that outside the US
>you *would* get "a what or a what???".
At least not completely US-centric; pretty many of the SA's around here
carry either (so, of those SA's that also work the hardware; I'm not
carrying my Leatherman any more, as I was forced off the hardware side).
>I had to look them up on the web. Just what do "swiss army" (European
>geddit) knives have to do with system administration pray tell?
Talking of Leatherman, it's a pretty good "first aid" tool kit. So, the
tools in it suffice for most cases, and saves you from walking back to
get the full toolkit. I guess Gerber has a comparable set of tools.
Swiss Army knives | | |