Unix Programming - rms on the evils of closed source software

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rms on the evils of closed source software

Daeron

2004-02-19, 9:34 am

MyDoom and you

]
Topics: Security , Government and Regulatory , Software , Business
Richard Stallman Feb 17 2004

I grew up in a community whose other members committed crimes as
serious
as murder ..

[..]

Despite these prevalent evils, never in my life have I seen anyone try
to condemn all New Yorkers on the basis of the wrongs that only some
have committed ..

[..]

However, people don't always remember to apply the principle. My
virtual
community, the free software community which I have helped to build
since 20 years ago by developing the GNU operating system, is now the
victim of a campaign of guilt by association. A number of articles --
I
have seen some -- have tried to hold our entire community guilty for
the
development of the MyDoom virus.

We can be pretty sure that some New Yorkers have committed murder,
because they have been tried and convicted for it. We do not know
whether anyone in the free software community participated in the
development of MyDoom. The developers have not been identified; they
know who they are, but you and I else can only speculate ..

[..]

Copyright 2004 Richard Stallman

Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are permitted
irrevocably without royalty in any medium provided this notice is
preserved.

http://www.newsforge.com/software/0...8&tid=82&tid=85

joe@invalid.address

2004-02-19, 9:34 am

doug_mentohl@yahoo.co.uk (Daeron) writes:

> MyDoom and you

[...]

> However, people don't always remember to apply the principle. My
> virtual community, the free software community which I have helped
> to build since 20 years ago by developing the GNU operating system,

For people who actually know him, is this the way he really talks? For
example, the "... since 20 years ago ..." doesn't sound like something
a native speaker of English would say. And does RMS really refer to
"... the GNU operating system ..."?

And would he really make a comparison like

"I have not seen anyone assume that all the citizens of New York are
guilty of murder, violence, robbery, perjury, or writing
proprietary software."

Does RMS really equate writing proprietary software with murder, etc?

And what is this supposed to mean?

"I now live in the smaller city of Cambridge, Mass. Murder and
robbery occur there, too; I do not know if Cambridge police
regularly lie in court, but proprietary software is rife."

Just curious. April 1st is too far away to assume that's the reason
for these nearly incoherent remarks.

Joe
--
"I didn't really say everything I said."
- Yogi Berra

gabe anzelini

2004-02-19, 10:34 am

joe@invalid.address writes:

> doug_mentohl@yahoo.co.uk (Daeron) writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> For people who actually know him, is this the way he really talks? For
> example, the "... since 20 years ago ..." doesn't sound like something
> a native speaker of English would say. And does RMS really refer to
> "... the GNU operating system ..."?
>
> And would he really make a comparison like
>
> "I have not seen anyone assume that all the citizens of New York are
> guilty of murder, violence, robbery, perjury, or writing
> proprietary software."
>
> Does RMS really equate writing proprietary software with murder, etc?
>
> And what is this supposed to mean?
>
> "I now live in the smaller city of Cambridge, Mass. Murder and
> robbery occur there, too; I do not know if Cambridge police
> regularly lie in court, but proprietary software is rife."
>
> Just curious. April 1st is too far away to assume that's the reason
> for these nearly incoherent remarks.
>
> Joe
> --
> "I didn't really say everything I said."
> - Yogi Berra

haven't seen revolution OS have you?

btw, he is not the only one that refers to Linux as GNU/Linux, since
most of the software you use under Linux is written by the GNU project,
no thats too soft, without the GNU project you wouldn't have Linux PERIOD.

----
gabe

joe@invalid.address

2004-02-19, 11:34 am

gabe anzelini <usenet@c0s.org> writes:

> joe@invalid.address writes:
>
[color=blue]
> haven't seen revolution OS have you?

Guess not.

> btw, he is not the only one that refers to Linux as GNU/Linux, since
> most of the software you use under Linux is written by the GNU
> project, no thats too soft, without the GNU project you wouldn't
> have Linux PERIOD.

I'm not disparaging him. I'm using a GPL mail client which runs in a
GPL editor, running on a GPL operating system. I'm not attacking him.
While I do have some differences of opinion with him, I appreciate
what he's done for free software, and I'm happy he did it.

What I was asking is, did he really say this stuff? What I've seen
from him before seems more cogent than this. For example, does he
really equate proprietary software with murder?

Joe
--
"I didn't really say everything I said."
- Yogi Berra

Rich Teer

2004-02-19, 11:34 am

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, gabe anzelini wrote:

> btw, he is not the only one that refers to Linux as GNU/Linux, since
> most of the software you use under Linux is written by the GNU project,

How ironic, then, that the university of California, Berkeley,
followed by Sun Microsystems, are the two largest donators of
source code to the Open Source community. The FSF is way down
the list.

So why not call it BSD/Linux? ;-)

> no thats too soft, without the GNU project you wouldn't have Linux PERIOD.

And the bad news would be...?

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

Billy O'Connor

2004-02-19, 12:34 pm

joe@invalid.address writes:

> What I was asking is, did he really say this stuff? What I've seen
> from him before seems more cogent than this. For example, does he
> really equate proprietary software with murder?

Only insofar as non-free software and murder are both subsets of
evil, if I'm understanding his newsforge article.

Sean Burke

2004-02-19, 12:34 pm

Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com> writes:

> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, gabe anzelini wrote:
>
>
> How ironic, then, that the university of California, Berkeley,
> followed by Sun Microsystems, are the two largest donators of
> source code to the Open Source community. The FSF is way down
> the list.

How so? UCB may have donated a lot of code in the past,
but they abandoned BSD years ago. In contrast, the FSF
continues to maintain the GNU code, and all of today's
BSD systems are just as dependent on gcc as Linux is.

-SEan

Rich Teer

2004-02-19, 1:34 pm

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Sean Burke wrote:

> How so? UCB may have donated a lot of code in the past,
> but they abandoned BSD years ago. In contrast, the FSF
> continues to maintain the GNU code, and all of today's

Agreed - but I guess that the amount of code they (the FSF)
maintains is still not as large as the amount provided by
UCB.

> BSD systems are just as dependent on gcc as Linux is.

I agree (but I wouldn't be surprised if there was another
free C copmiler out there, albeit not as advanced as gcc).

I don't disagree that the FSF has contributed a lot to the
open source movement - I just take umbrage at the implication
that they donated most or all of it.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

Barry Margolin

2004-02-19, 1:34 pm

In article <m3oerulhk4.fsf@invalid.address>, joe@invalid.address wrote:

> What I was asking is, did he really say this stuff? What I've seen
> from him before seems more cogent than this. For example, does he
> really equate proprietary software with murder?

Of course not. He was just making a point about treating the activities
of a segment of the community as representative of the community as a
whole, by using an absurd analogy.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Rodrick Brown

2004-02-21, 3:33 pm

Actually the BSD camp has been working on tundra for a while now. Checkout
http://www.tendra.org/ I hear it can build FreeBSD now

- RB

--
Rodrick R. Brown - Sr. Unix Systems Admin
rbrown[(at)]rodrickbrown.com
rbrown[(at)]nyc.gov

"Rich Teer" <rich.teer@rite-group.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.58.0402191810440.2843@zaphod.rite-group.com...
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Sean Burke wrote:
>
>
> Agreed - but I guess that the amount of code they (the FSF)
> maintains is still not as large as the amount provided by
> UCB.
>
>
> I agree (but I wouldn't be surprised if there was another
> free C copmiler out there, albeit not as advanced as gcc).
>
> I don't disagree that the FSF has contributed a lot to the
> Open Source movement - I just take umbrage at the implication
> that they donated most or all of it.
>
> --
> Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA
>
> President,
> Rite Online Inc.
>
> Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
> URL: http://www.rite-online.net