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Home > Archive > Unix Programming > June 2005 > ANN: OpenSolaris is available NOW!
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ANN: OpenSolaris is available NOW!
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| Rich Teer 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Hi all,
For those of you that haven't already heard, OpenSolaris is
available to everyone, today. Now.
Open source code, free compilers and tools, documentation, and
much more is available from www.opensolaris.org. Oh, and the
first 1,000 visitors to opensolaris.org will get a free T shirt!
(The T shirts are all gone now.)
Methinks a lot of people (the most vociferous of naysayers) will
be eating their (Red) Hats...
Ladies and gentlemen, start your downloads!
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Rich Teer <rich@rite-group.com> writes:
> Hi all,
>
> For those of you that haven't already heard, OpenSolaris is
> available to everyone, today. Now.
>
> Open Source code, free compilers and tools, documentation, and
> much more is available from www.opensolaris.org. Oh, and the
> first 1,000 visitors to opensolaris.org will get a free T shirt!
> (The T shirts are all gone now.)
>
> Methinks a lot of people (the most vociferous of naysayers) will
> be eating their (Red) Hats...
>
> Ladies and gentlemen, start your downloads!
Certainly interesting, but is there any reason I should throw out my
working Linux installation, and start afresh with OpenSolaris? Will
it let me do something I can't do already? Will I get better
performance?
--
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com
| |
| Dragan Cvetkovic 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
> Rich Teer <rich@rite-group.com> writes:
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Certainly interesting, but is there any reason I should throw out my
> working Linux installation, and start afresh with OpenSolaris? Will
> it let me do something I can't do already? Will I get better
> performance?
I think you have missed part where it says: "Open source code". Nobody ask
you to give up your Linux installation, after all you can browse and modify
the code on the plaform of your choice. Only when you want to compile the
code, you'll need to run on it. But multi-booting has been supported for a
long time, so there is no need to uninstall Linux and install (Open)
Solaris on it.
Bye, Dragan
--
Dragan Cvetkovic,
To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer
!!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Dragan Cvetkovic <me@privacy.net> writes:
> Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
>
>
>
> I think you have missed part where it says: "Open source code". Nobody ask
> you to give up your Linux installation, after all you can browse and modify
> the code on the plaform of your choice. Only when you want to compile the
> code, you'll need to run on it. But multi-booting has been supported for a
> long time, so there is no need to uninstall Linux and install (Open)
> Solaris on it.
Of course I can keep Linux alongside. Suppose, however, that I have
small server for web, email, etc. It doesn't make sense to have more
than one OS on that machine. Right now, mine is running Linux, and
doing well. If I had reason to believe that OpenSolaris might, in
some way, perform the task better, I'd give it a try. As yet, no such
reason has been presented to me, only hype over the release.
--
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com
| |
| Rich Teer 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> Certainly interesting, but is there any reason I should throw out my
> working Linux installation, and start afresh with OpenSolaris? Will
In addition to what Dragan said, how about the opportunity to work with
some new and cool technology? Also, this doesn't have to be an either/or
thing. There's no reason why one can't contribute to both projects.
> it let me do something I can't do already? Will I get better
> performance?
The honest answer to that is "it depends".
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
| |
| Dragan Cvetkovic 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
> Of course I can keep Linux alongside. Suppose, however, that I have
> small server for web, email, etc. It doesn't make sense to have more
> than one OS on that machine. Right now, mine is running Linux, and
> doing well. If I had reason to believe that OpenSolaris might, in
> some way, perform the task better, I'd give it a try. As yet, no such
> reason has been presented to me, only hype over the release.
Well, for the above tasks any old PC running even 10 years old OS can do a
decent job. However, having used both Linux and Solaris (and HP-UX and AIX
and occasionally True64), I find that Solaris is a better developer's
platform. I find tools like pfiles, pstack, pmap, gcore ... quite useful
and dtrace is a gaint step forward.
And to return to above small server, using zones you can partition your machine
into 4 machines (we are talking 3-5% overhead over the no-zone approach),
but then you are certain that if anyone break into e.g. your mail server,
it can't affect your web server ...
But I start to sound like a marketoid, so I'll better stop.
But anyway, if you don't try it, you don't know what you are missing. :-)
Bye, Dragan
--
Dragan Cvetkovic,
To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer
!!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com> writes:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Måns Rullgård wrote:
>
>
> In addition to what Dragan said, how about the opportunity to work with
> some new and cool technology?
It's not exactly new, is it? Solaris (SunOS) has been around for
quite a while, only the terms of distribution have changed. Sure,
there's always development going on, so the Solaris being distributed
today is not at all the same as SunOS of 10 years ago. Still,
OpenSolaris is just another free Unix, which naturally has some unique
features.
> Also, this doesn't have to be an either/or thing. There's no reason
> why one can't contribute to both projects.
Primarily, I use the OS/application that does best whatever I fancy
doing at the moment. If nothing quite fills my needs, I might take
whatever comes closest, and improve on it, contributing my changes
back. I don't usually do coding just for the sake of it, although it
does happen.
>
> The honest answer to that is "it depends".
That's always the answer.
--
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| Dragan Cvetkovic <me@privacy.net> writes:
> Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
>
>
> Well, for the above tasks any old PC running even 10 years old OS
> can do a decent job. However, having used both Linux and Solaris
> (and HP-UX and AIX and occasionally True64), I find that Solaris is
> a better developer's platform. I find tools like pfiles, pstack,
> pmap, gcore ... quite useful and dtrace is a gaint step forward.
One of my primary interests is in multimedia applications. I know some
Unixes are lacking in capabilities when it comes to displaying video,
or playing audio. What should I expect from OpenSolaris here?
> And to return to above small server, using zones you can partition
> your machine into 4 machines (we are talking 3-5% overhead over the
> no-zone approach), but then you are certain that if anyone break
> into e.g. your mail server, it can't affect your web server ...
Or I can run Xen and Linux.
> But I start to sound like a marketoid, so I'll better stop.
>
> But anyway, if you don't try it, you don't know what you are
> missing. :-)
I'd be willing to try it, if nothing else, out of curiosity. However,
if I install it, and run a few programs, it will probably appear just
like any other Unix. If any of the hype is warranted at all, someone
should be able to point at a thing or two that distinguish it from the
rest. I've heard a great deal about dtrace, but having a wonderful
debugging tool isn't quite the primary factor when choosing an OS for
production use.
--
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com
| |
| Rich Teer 2005-06-14, 5:57 pm |
| On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> It's not exactly new, is it? Solaris (SunOS) has been around for
Oh, I dunno. Zones, Dtrace, SMF, FireEngine and so on are all pretty new.
> quite a while, only the terms of distribution have changed. Sure,
There's a lot more different between Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 than
just the licensing!
> That's always the answer.
It should be, but it depends on the zeal of the answerer. :-)
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
| |
| Dragan Cvetkovic 2005-06-15, 7:48 am |
| Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
[snip]
> One of my primary interests is in multimedia applications. I know some
> Unixes are lacking in capabilities when it comes to displaying video,
> or playing audio. What should I expect from OpenSolaris here?
[snip]
> I've heard a great deal about dtrace, but having a wonderful
> debugging tool isn't quite the primary factor when choosing an OS for
> production use.
Måns, do you want to use it for production (as in server) or for displaying
video and playing audio (typical desktop application)?
Bye, Dragan
--
Dragan Cvetkovic,
To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer
!!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2005-06-16, 7:52 am |
| Dragan Cvetkovic <me@privacy.net> writes:
> Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Måns, do you want to use it for production (as in server) or for displaying
> video and playing audio (typical desktop application)?
I use computers for both purposes. If OpenSolaris could be better at
either, I'd consider it for those applications. Since nobody has
provided a single reason it might be a better choice, I'll have to
assume it's all just a "Solaris, Free, Cool" hype. I'm not saying
it's a bad OS, only that it's probably not worth switching from
something that already works.
--
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com
| |
| Dragan Cvetkovic 2005-06-16, 5:52 pm |
| Måns Rullgård <mru@inprovide.com> writes:
> I use computers for both purposes. If OpenSolaris could be better at
> either, I'd consider it for those applications. Since nobody has
> provided a single reason it might be a better choice, I'll have to
> assume it's all just a "Solaris, Free, Cool" hype. I'm not saying
> it's a bad OS, only that it's probably not worth switching from
> something that already works.
That would also rule out any Linux distribution ugrade and/or change. But,
it's your choice and I respect it.
Bye, Dragan
--
Dragan Cvetkovic,
To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer
!!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
| |
| Michael B Allen 2005-06-19, 5:51 pm |
| On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:58:45 -0400, Dragan Cvetkovic wrote:
> And to return to above small server, using zones you can partition your machine
> into 4 machines (we are talking 3-5% overhead over the no-zone approach),
> but then you are certain that if anyone break into e.g. your mail server,
> it can't affect your web server ...
Note however there's no firewalling between zones. My impression is
that zones simply allow you to consolidate applications cleanly and
efficiently. It is not designed a security measure.
Personally I'm very excited about OpenSolaris. Linux is far superior for
development (and staging if you can get away with it) but the whole Linux
thing is a little too unpredictable for a serious production env IMHO
(right now I'm running Debian for my Internet server and I'm starting
to regret it). It is also very appealing to me that I can test my code
in a totally different environment and in doing so I know it works on
a good production platform.
Mike
| |
| Rich Teer 2005-06-19, 5:51 pm |
| On Sun, 19 Jun 2005, Michael B Allen wrote:
> Note however there's no firewalling between zones. My impression is
Wrong. A process in one zone cannot affect one in another zone,
no matter what UID/privileges it has. They are not even aware
of them. The onlyt exception to this is that processes in the
global zone can see into tother zones.
> that zones simply allow you to consolidate applications cleanly and
> efficiently. It is not designed a security measure.
Wrong again; see above.
> Personally I'm very excited about OpenSolaris. Linux is far superior for
> development (and staging if you can get away with it) but the whole Linux
I diasagree. How do you think Linux is "far superior"?
> thing is a little too unpredictable for a serious production env IMHO
> (right now I'm running Debian for my Internet server and I'm starting
All th emore reason to develop elsewhere!
> to regret it). It is also very appealing to me that I can test my code
> in a totally different environment and in doing so I know it works on
> a good production platform.
AGreed; testing on multiple platforms is a good idea.
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
| |
| Michael B Allen 2005-06-20, 2:48 am |
| On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 23:13:19 +0000, Rich Teer wrote:
>
> Wrong. A process in one zone cannot affect one in another zone,
> no matter what UID/privileges it has. They are not even aware
All interzone network communication is over the loopback adapter which
bypasses any firewall rules. You can use a routing command to block ALL
traffic between zones but that's a bad arrangement itself. I hope they
sort this out. It will be a neat way to sell cheap root accounts like
the Linux guys do with UML.
>
> I diasagree. How do you think Linux is "far superior"?
Ease of use. Linux was designed by developers for developers on PCs. I
can get a Linux CD and install a consistent dev environment on Thinkpad
with all the usual OSS programs in a few hours.
Also the default programs are just different. Vim on Linux has some
crucial features like copy paste between files with :e#. Valgrind is
vital. It's the details in commands like grep -r.
And with apt or yum I barely have to lift a finger. I would have to jump
through flaming hoops to do that on Solaris.
I run apps on Solaris in the production environment at work and trying
to work on those machines is pretty dry compared to Linux. Linux is
"fluffy", Solaris is "hard", and I think that's a good arrangement. Use
Linux for development and Solaris or FreeBSD for staging and production.
Mike
| |
| Casper H.S. Dik 2005-06-20, 7:53 am |
| Michael B Allen <mba2000@ioplex.com> writes:
>On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 23:13:19 +0000, Rich Teer wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>All interzone network communication is over the loopback adapter which
>bypasses any firewall rules. You can use a routing command to block ALL
>traffic between zones but that's a bad arrangement itself. I hope they
>sort this out. It will be a neat way to sell cheap root accounts like
>the Linux guys do with UML.
Correct; but even on zones you can sell root accounts but zones are simply
not full blown instances (and thus run at the same speed as the native OS
whereas UML has a performance penalty)
>I run apps on Solaris in the production environment at work and trying
>to work on those machines is pretty dry compared to Linux. Linux is
>"fluffy", Solaris is "hard", and I think that's a good arrangement. Use
>Linux for development and Solaris or FreeBSD for staging and production.
It's pretty much a matter of taste, I think; I find Linux just too weird
in many aspects.
Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.
| |
| Rich Teer 2005-06-20, 6:05 pm |
| On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Michael B Allen wrote:
> Ease of use. Linux was designed by developers for developers on PCs. I
Ease of use is largely a matter of familiarity. I doubt I'd find
Linux as easy to use as I do Solaris, but then I'm very familiar
with the latter.
> can get a Linux CD and install a consistent dev environment on Thinkpad
> with all the usual OSS programs in a few hours.
Ditto for me with Solaris on my Ferrari.
> Also the default programs are just different. Vim on Linux has some
Vim on SOlaris has those same features.
> crucial features like copy paste between files with :e#. Valgrind is
> vital. It's the details in commands like grep -r.
ALmost any correctly written Open Source app you have on Linux is
available for Solaris.
> And with apt or yum I barely have to lift a finger. I would have to jump
> through flaming hoops to do that on Solaris.
Have you looked at blastwave.org? It's based on the Debian model.
> "fluffy", Solaris is "hard", and I think that's a good arrangement. Use
> Linux for development and Solaris or FreeBSD for staging and production.
My school of thought it "develop where you deploy". But to each their own,
eh?
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
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