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Recommendations for laptop for travelling
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|
| Haines Brown 2007-09-05, 7:20 pm |
| I hesitate to ask a question I could answer though extended research,
but it's good to hear of people's practical experiences. Besides, I
know virtually nothing of laptops.
I'll soon purchase a new laptop on which I'll run debian etch in order
to access my desktop at home while travelling.
What I'd be using it for is simply to import X to run a remote emacs
session and graphical file manager, and locally to run emacs, a
browser, and a graphical file manager. The overriding concern is to
carry on such activities with the greatest reliability and ease.
What I'm looking for a laptop that is as light and has as long a
battery life as possible, that is relatively small and of good quality
(I'd like to avoid the weight and complications of a backup
battery). A CDROM drive is not mandatory, as I would install from a
usb-key. I like speed and so could use a good chunk of RAM, but I'll
not be running videos, compiling or do number crunching. Cost is not
an overriding factor.
Any recommendaations and warnings would be much appreciated.
--
Haines Brown, KB1GRM
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2007-09-05, 7:20 pm |
| Haines Brown <brownh@teufel.hartford-hwp.com> writes:
> I hesitate to ask a question I could answer though extended research,
> but it's good to hear of people's practical experiences. Besides, I
> know virtually nothing of laptops.
>
> I'll soon purchase a new laptop on which I'll run debian etch in order
> to access my desktop at home while travelling.
>
> What I'd be using it for is simply to import X to run a remote emacs
> session and graphical file manager, and locally to run emacs, a
> browser, and a graphical file manager. The overriding concern is to
> carry on such activities with the greatest reliability and ease.
>
> What I'm looking for a laptop that is as light and has as long a
> battery life as possible, that is relatively small and of good quality
> (I'd like to avoid the weight and complications of a backup
> battery). A CDROM drive is not mandatory, as I would install from a
> usb-key. I like speed and so could use a good chunk of RAM, but I'll
> not be running videos, compiling or do number crunching. Cost is not
> an overriding factor.
These days pretty much any laptop will run Linux without issue, though
it's still wise to make sure there are no known problems before
spending any money.
I've been quite pleased with my Samsung Q30+, which I believe has been
superseded by the Q40. The weight of 1.1kg and 3-hour standard
battery (twice that with a fatter one) are a good compromise for me.
All hardware is well supported by Linux, except maybe the modem which
I haven't tried to use.
If cost is not much of an issue, you might be tempted by some of
Sony's offerings too.
--
Måns Rullgård
mans@mansr.com
| |
| Bob Tennent 2007-09-05, 7:20 pm |
| On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:12:18 GMT, Haines Brown wrote:
> I'll soon purchase a new laptop on which I'll run debian etch in order
> to access my desktop at home while travelling.
>
> What I'd be using it for is simply to import X to run a remote emacs
> session and graphical file manager, and locally to run emacs, a
> browser, and a graphical file manager. The overriding concern is to
> carry on such activities with the greatest reliability and ease.
>
> What I'm looking for a laptop that is as light and has as long a
> battery life as possible, that is relatively small and of good quality
> (I'd like to avoid the weight and complications of a backup
> battery). A CDROM drive is not mandatory, as I would install from a
> usb-key. I like speed and so could use a good chunk of RAM, but I'll
> not be running videos, compiling or do number crunching. Cost is not
> an overriding factor.
Asus has made some ultraportable laptops, sometimes available in
barebone configurations (no Microsoft tax). I use an S5N and am fairly
happy with it.
Bob T.
| |
| Joe Pfeiffer 2007-09-06, 1:20 am |
| I would caution you against *too* small. I had a Sony Vaio 505 for
several years, and discovered that the 90%-size keys were a truly
royal pain. Go for really small, but insist on a full-size keyboard.
My current laptop is an Averatec 3270, which is a really good
compromise between small (weighs 4.5 pounds) and useable. Also, that
CD-ROM (actually, DVD) drive is more useful than you might expect --
while I work hard when I'm travelling, it's not 24/7, and being able
to watch with a DVD is a Really Nice Feature.
My family, at this point, has four Averatecs -- both children and I
have the 3270, my wife has the 64 bit desktop-replacement whose number
I don't remember. I'm the only one of the four who has had any
hardware trouble (the backlight inverter went flaky on me and had to
be replaced), though my wife's machine has device driver issues (needs
binary blobs to run the wireless).
I notice they now have some smaller, lighter machines than mine, but I
don't know anything about them.
In general: check the weight (in my experience travelling, weight
counts for more than dimensions. If it's small enough to stick in one
of the pockets of a briefcase, it's small enough. But lugging through
the airport is still lugging), check the keyboard size, check the
driver availability.
One last note is that you shouldn't depend on being able to run remote
X. Never mind that it's likely to be painfully slow whenever the 'net
has a high spam day, I've found an unbelievable collection of
completely random port restrictions in hotels and conferences. Have a
good plan for syncing your local environment to your home environment,
sync up before you go, pray you've got email, and sync again when you
get home.
| |
| Haines Brown 2007-09-06, 7:25 am |
| Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
> One last note is that you shouldn't depend on being able to run
> remote X. Never mind that it's likely to be painfully slow whenever
> the 'net has a high spam day, I've found an unbelievable collection
> of completely random port restrictions in hotels and conferences.
> Have a good plan for syncing your local environment to your home
> environment, sync up before you go, pray you've got email, and sync
> again when you get home.
I very much appreciate the comments of yourself and others. Big
help. But here you loose me.
What is the relation of running X remotely and "port restrictions"
because of heavy spam? I don't see the connection. Most of the things
I do can be done in console, but while that's a lot faster, why would
that not be dependent on "port restrictions".
Also, what do you mean by "syncing your local environment to your home
environment"? If you mean alternative ways of connecting, to what to
you refer specifically?
Another question regarding the slowness in running X remotely. I'd
guess this usually has little to do with the speed of the user's
computers at either end, but more the connection between them. Are
these servers about all the same? Are they better in urban rather than
rural areas? How likely is one to find a connection as one travels to
various places in this country and outside? That is, how should one
modify travel plans to accommodate remote operation?
--
Haines Brown, KB1GRM
| |
| Bob Tennent 2007-09-06, 1:15 pm |
| On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:56:51 GMT, Haines Brown wrote:
>
> What is the relation of running X remotely and "port restrictions"
> because of heavy spam? I don't see the connection. Most of the things
> I do can be done in console, but while that's a lot faster, why would
> that not be dependent on "port restrictions".
Port restrictions and spam clogging the net are separate issues. You
will be connecting to the internet via some sort of wireless router with
a firewall. Often ports needed for ssh or vnc are closed out of security
paranoia. This may prevent you from keeping your home and travelling
computers "in sync"; i.e., up to date at both ends.
> Another question regarding the slowness in running X remotely. I'd
> guess this usually has little to do with the speed of the user's
> computers at either end, but more the connection between them. Are
> these servers about all the same? Are they better in urban rather than
> rural areas? How likely is one to find a connection as one travels to
> various places in this country and outside? That is, how should one
> modify travel plans to accommodate remote operation?
There are 3 kinds of connections: slow (telephone), fast (ethernet),
and wireless. More possibilities in urban than in rural areas (coffee
houses, for example, often provide wireless or ethernet access). I doubt
that modifying travel plans would be beneficial. If you're comfortable
with console operation, you will find life easier than those who haven't
been weaned from GUI applications.
Bob T.
| |
| General Schvantzkoph 2007-09-06, 1:15 pm |
| On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:12:18 +0000, Haines Brown wrote:
> I hesitate to ask a question I could answer though extended research,
> but it's good to hear of people's practical experiences. Besides, I know
> virtually nothing of laptops.
>
> I'll soon purchase a new laptop on which I'll run debian etch in order
> to access my desktop at home while travelling.
>
> What I'd be using it for is simply to import X to run a remote emacs
> session and graphical file manager, and locally to run emacs, a browser,
> and a graphical file manager. The overriding concern is to carry on such
> activities with the greatest reliability and ease.
>
> What I'm looking for a laptop that is as light and has as long a battery
> life as possible, that is relatively small and of good quality (I'd like
> to avoid the weight and complications of a backup battery). A CDROM
> drive is not mandatory, as I would install from a usb-key. I like speed
> and so could use a good chunk of RAM, but I'll not be running videos,
> compiling or do number crunching. Cost is not an overriding factor.
>
> Any recommendaations and warnings would be much appreciated.
I can't give you a specific suggestion but I'll give you the generic
advice about laptops. The two things to worry about are Wireless and to a
lesser extent graphics. For wireless you want Intel and you should avoid
Broadcom. For graphics either Nvidia or Intel. Nvidia is much faster but
you need the proprietary driver for 3D. The Intel kernel drivers support
3D. Your best bet would be a Core2 based laptop with Intel graphics and
Intel wireless (which is going to be the usual combination for a Core2).
You should avoid ATI graphics and you absolutely must avoid Broadcom.
| |
| Joe Pfeiffer 2007-09-06, 1:15 pm |
| Haines Brown <brownh@teufel.hartford-hwp.com> writes:
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>
>
> I very much appreciate the comments of yourself and others. Big
> help. But here you loose me.
>
> What is the relation of running X remotely and "port restrictions"
> because of heavy spam? I don't see the connection. Most of the things
> I do can be done in console, but while that's a lot faster, why would
> that not be dependent on "port restrictions".
Sorry, my wording probably wasn't clear. I was saying that
(1) remote X, as in needing to go further than the local LAN, is very
slow; if there is a heavy load on the network (what I jokingly called
a "heavy spam day") it becomes ridiculous. It's not as big a problem
with a console application because the amount of data being
transferred is much less, and a short delay on keystrokes isn't nearly
as annoying as slow response on a typical X application.
(2) worse, the local sysadmins seem to decide completely at random
what ports they regard as security holes. While I have been places
where I couldn't get ssh or vpn, I've been more places where I
couldn't open an X connection.
> Also, what do you mean by "syncing your local environment to your home
> environment"? If you mean alternative ways of connecting, to what to
> you refer specifically?
I keep my work-related directories on my laptop, my home workstation,
and my workstation in my office at NMSU synchronized using rsync (I've
got a script on both the home workstation and the laptop called
'sync-nmsu', so I just give that command). One thing I'm very careful
to do before any sort of travel is make sure my laptop is synced just
before I leave, so even if it turns out I'm out of contact I can keep
working, and then sync them back up when I get home. The laptop is
what I had in mind as 'local environment' in this case.
> Another question regarding the slowness in running X remotely. I'd
> guess this usually has little to do with the speed of the user's
> computers at either end, but more the connection between them. Are
> these servers about all the same? Are they better in urban rather than
> rural areas? How likely is one to find a connection as one travels to
> various places in this country and outside? That is, how should one
> modify travel plans to accommodate remote operation?
It's limited by the slowest connection between your laptop and the
machine in your office, whatever that is (and in this case, 'slowest'
can mean either longest latency or lowest bandwidth). I haven't found
any correlation between city/rural or anything else. It just seems
random.
| |
| Anton Ertl 2007-09-06, 1:15 pm |
| General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> writes:
> For graphics either Nvidia or Intel. Nvidia is much faster but
>you need the proprietary driver for 3D. The Intel kernel drivers support
>3D. Your best bet would be a Core2 based laptop with Intel graphics and
>Intel wireless (which is going to be the usual combination for a Core2).
>You should avoid ATI graphics
I'm happy with my iBook and its Mobility Radeon 9200 (although it took
some time until it worked flawlessly). OTOH a collegue of mine has
some Apple laptop (IIRC a PowerBook) with some Nvidia graphics, and he
does not get out of it what he needs. IIRC the problem is that he
does not get clone mode (i.e. the same stuff displayed on the internal
and the external display). Oh, and Nvidia does not make proprietary
drivers for Linux-PPC.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
| |
| Anton Ertl 2007-09-06, 1:15 pm |
| Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>(1) remote X, as in needing to go further than the local LAN, is very
>slow;
That depends on the application. I am currently editing this message
with Emacs (and reading news with xrn), with the X server running at
home, connected to a machine at work through cable modem over ssh.
This setup worked nicely even in 1998 when the speed was 300/64Kb/s.
However, these days the startup of Emacs over this setup (even with
much higher bandwidth) is somewhat slow, but once it is started, it
works fine.
Stuff like gv and xpdf is also usable across my cable modem, although
slow on startup.
>I keep my work-related directories on my laptop, my home workstation,
>and my workstation in my office at NMSU synchronized using rsync
I manage my data with CVS, which offers some help even if stuff goes
out of sync.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
| |
| General Schvantzkoph 2007-09-06, 1:15 pm |
| On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:43:15 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:
> General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> I'm happy with my iBook and its Mobility Radeon 9200 (although it took
> some time until it worked flawlessly). OTOH a collegue of mine has some
> Apple laptop (IIRC a PowerBook) with some Nvidia graphics, and he does
> not get out of it what he needs. IIRC the problem is that he does not
> get clone mode (i.e. the same stuff displayed on the internal and the
> external display). Oh, and Nvidia does not make proprietary drivers for
> Linux-PPC.
>
> - anton
PPC is no longer relevant, it's a thing of the past now that Apple has
switched to x86. I've been using Nvidia for years and I've never had a
problem, the Nvidia installer always works. My Compaq is using an older
Nvidia chipset, the 440GO which requires a legacy driver, but that's not
a problem since Nvidia continues to support it on the latest kernels. The
kernel driver, nv, is pretty good and that will work out of the box. ATI
treats Linux as a stepchild. Their Linux driver runs at half the speed as
their Windows driver, Nvidia's Linux driver is the same speed as the
Windows driver. The OP is looking for an ultralight so he is probably
best off with Intel graphics. Intel only offers low end graphics chips
right now, but that's what you would want in an ultralight.
| |
| Anton Ertl 2007-09-06, 7:17 pm |
| General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:43:15 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:
....[vbcol=seagreen]
>PPC is no longer relevant, it's a thing of the past now that Apple has
>switched to x86.
You mean my collegue should throw away his PowerBook because you say
so?
> I've been using Nvidia for years and I've never had a
>problem, the Nvidia installer always works. My Compaq is using an older
>Nvidia chipset, the 440GO which requires a legacy driver, but that's not
>a problem since Nvidia continues to support it on the latest kernels.
Good for you that Nvidia is not quite as cavalier about hardware
that's no longer sold as you are.
>ATI
>treats Linux as a stepchild.
ATI supported free software for 3D in the R200 days (i.e. for chips up
to the 9250), Nvidia never did so. However, nowadays Intel is king in
the free software game, and ATI does not even support free software 2D
acceleration in the R500 series (X1xxx).
> Their Linux driver runs at half the speed as
>their Windows driver, Nvidia's Linux driver is the same speed as the
>Windows driver.
I could not care less about the proprietary drivers of either company.
They don't run on my laptop, and I don't want to taint my desktop with
them.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
| |
| Darren Salt 2007-09-06, 7:17 pm |
| I demand that Anton Ertl may or may not have written...
[snip]
> ATI supported free software for 3D in the R200 days (i.e. for chips up to
> the 9250), Nvidia never did so. However, nowadays Intel is king in the
> free software game, and ATI does not even support free software 2D
> acceleration in the R500 series (X1xxx).
Except for the X1050 which is apparently an rv370.
[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| <URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/> (PGP 2.6, GPG keys)
Make me an offer. I have a computer to support.
| |
| Joe Pfeiffer 2007-09-06, 7:17 pm |
| anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>
> That depends on the application. I am currently editing this message
> with Emacs (and reading news with xrn), with the X server running at
> home, connected to a machine at work through cable modem over ssh.
> This setup worked nicely even in 1998 when the speed was 300/64Kb/s.
> However, these days the startup of Emacs over this setup (even with
> much higher bandwidth) is somewhat slow, but once it is started, it
> works fine.
>
> Stuff like gv and xpdf is also usable across my cable modem, although
> slow on startup.
Either your cable modem works better than mine, or you're more
tolerant than I am...
| |
| Anton Ertl 2007-09-06, 7:17 pm |
| Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>
>
>Either your cable modem works better than mine, or you're more
>tolerant than I am...
Just tested gv: with antialiasing, changing pages takes a lot of
patience (but it's still bearable); without antialiasing, changing
pages works at a nice speed. Startup speed (until the first page is
displayed): 17s with, 9s without antialiasing.
In xpdf paging takes a lot of patience (with and without
antialiasing), but for viewing a specific page or two it's usable.
BTW, my impression is that a lot of the delays come from ssh, I also
notice that gv with antialiasing is quite slow over ssh on a LAN,
while it's snappy with a direct X connection across the same LAN.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
| |
| Måns Rullgård 2007-09-06, 7:17 pm |
| anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>
> Just tested gv: with antialiasing, changing pages takes a lot of
> patience (but it's still bearable); without antialiasing, changing
> pages works at a nice speed. Startup speed (until the first page is
> displayed): 17s with, 9s without antialiasing.
>
> In xpdf paging takes a lot of patience (with and without
> antialiasing), but for viewing a specific page or two it's usable.
If these apps create a server-side pixmap and render into that,
further manipulation, such as scrolling, should require little
communication.
> BTW, my impression is that a lot of the delays come from ssh, I also
> notice that gv with antialiasing is quite slow over ssh on a LAN,
> while it's snappy with a direct X connection across the same LAN.
SSH could be buffering X requests, thus causing slowdown.
--
Måns Rullgård
mans@mansr.com
| |
| Joe Pfeiffer 2007-09-07, 1:17 am |
| anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>
> BTW, my impression is that a lot of the delays come from ssh, I also
> notice that gv with antialiasing is quite slow over ssh on a LAN,
> while it's snappy with a direct X connection across the same LAN.
Definitely a case of YMMV! On a 100Mb LAN across ssh, I barely notice
a difference between xpdf directly or across the LAN.
| |
| Scott Alfter 2007-09-07, 7:17 am |
| In article <1bwsv3re9l.fsf@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>(2) worse, the local sysadmins seem to decide completely at random
>what ports they regard as security holes. While I have been places
>where I couldn't get ssh or vpn, I've been more places where I
>couldn't open an X connection.
As long as port 22 is open (and I've not been anywhere that it wasn't), you
can tunnel X, VNC, etc. over SSH (it's a good idea to do that anyway, as
neither X nor VNC are secure by themselves). I've even tunneled SMTP over
SSH to bypass local-network mail restrictions.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
| |
| Scott Alfter 2007-09-07, 7:17 am |
| In article <pan.2007.09.06.16.13.29@yahoo.com>,
General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
>ATI treats Linux as a stepchild. Their Linux driver runs at half the speed
>as their Windows driver
That's about to change:
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.p...7/09/06/1335230
As for performance, I've not noticed any issues with the integrated ATI
video in my HP L2000.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
| |
| Joe Pfeiffer 2007-09-07, 1:20 pm |
| scott@alfter.DIESPAMMERSDIE.us (Scott Alfter) writes:
> In article <1bwsv3re9l.fsf@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> As long as port 22 is open (and I've not been anywhere that it wasn't), you
> can tunnel X, VNC, etc. over SSH (it's a good idea to do that anyway, as
> neither X nor VNC are secure by themselves). I've even tunneled SMTP over
> SSH to bypass local-network mail restrictions.
My wife was at a conference in the UK during the summer in which port
22 was blocked. She wasn't able to get out to anything but web
access.
| |
| General Schvantzkoph 2007-09-07, 1:20 pm |
| On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:02:57 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> scott@alfter.DIESPAMMERSDIE.us (Scott Alfter) writes:
>
>
> My wife was at a conference in the UK during the summer in which port 22
> was blocked. She wasn't able to get out to anything but web access.
SSH can be moved to any port you want. In the circumstance that you
described the solution would be to move it to port 80 (the http port).
However under the circumstances that you described she would have needed
to contact you to move the port because she would have had no way of
getting at your systems until the port had already been moved.
| |
| A. Ben Hmeda 2007-09-23, 1:20 pm |
| Haines Brown wrote:
> I hesitate to ask a question I could answer though extended research,
> but it's good to hear of people's practical experiences. Besides, I
> know virtually nothing of laptops.
>
> I'll soon purchase a new laptop on which I'll run debian etch in order
> to access my desktop at home while travelling.
>
> What I'd be using it for is simply to import X to run a remote emacs
> session and graphical file manager, and locally to run emacs, a
> browser, and a graphical file manager. The overriding concern is to
> carry on such activities with the greatest reliability and ease.
>
> What I'm looking for a laptop that is as light and has as long a
> battery life as possible, that is relatively small and of good quality
> (I'd like to avoid the weight and complications of a backup
> battery). A CDROM drive is not mandatory, as I would install from a
> usb-key. I like speed and so could use a good chunk of RAM, but I'll
> not be running videos, compiling or do number crunching. Cost is not
> an overriding factor.
>
> Any recommendaations and warnings would be much appreciated.
>
Any laptop will do that nowadays. I do something similar on an old
Compaq Armada M700 650MHz 256RAM 6GB HD I tossed the CDROM drive after
installation and stuck an extra battery in the same CDROM compartment
(you can do that with Armada and EVO laptops), now I have two batteries
in one laptop that does exactly what you want. I bought the old laptop
on eBay for less than $80.
p.s. I have had nothing but ATI graphics, ever since I started using
Linux, 7 years ago.
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