| Author |
bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
|
|
| willbill 2007-04-13, 7:14 pm |
| bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
i've come across connection issues
with my (admittedly limited) use
of SATA drives, both data and power,
most recently power
what an aggrevation!
are others seeing this?
bill
| |
| Rita Ä Berkowitz 2007-04-13, 7:14 pm |
| willbill wrote:
> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>
> i've come across connection issues
> with my (admittedly limited) use
> of SATA drives, both data and power,
> most recently power
>
> what an aggrevation!
>
> are others seeing this?
No, since I use SCSI with SCA connectors these problems are nonexistent.
You get what you pay for. SATA drives are basically toys equivalent to what
comes out of a gumball machine.
Rita
| |
| The Lone Gunman 2007-04-13, 7:14 pm |
| Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:
: willbill wrote:
:
:: bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
::
:: i've come across connection issues
:: with my (admittedly limited) use
:: of SATA drives, both data and power,
:: most recently power
::
:: what an aggrevation!
::
:: are others seeing this?
:
: No, since I use SCSI with SCA connectors these problems are
: nonexistent. You get what you pay for. SATA drives are
: basically toys equivalent to what comes out of a gumball
: machine.
The usual pearls of wisdom from "Rita" the transexual. You are SUCH a
XXXXing lamer!
| |
| Arno Wagner 2007-04-13, 7:14 pm |
| In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage willbill <trek@worldwide.net> wrote:
> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
> i've come across connection issues
> with my (admittedly limited) use
> of SATA drives, both data and power,
> most recently power
> what an aggrevation!
> are others seeing this?
SATA connectors require precise manufacturing in order to
work well. Many cheaper ones just have too high tolerances.
Buy quality and you should be fine.
Arno
| |
|
| In article <13200j3ju6dhae0@news.supernews.com>,
Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:
>No, since I use SCSI with SCA connectors these problems are nonexistent.
Why do you bother to post something so useless?
| |
| Alexander Grigoriev 2007-04-14, 1:14 am |
| It's a script that awakens periodically, triggered by ATA, IDE, an so on. Or
self-appointed SCSI preacher without a life. "I'm a righteous one: I don't
use no bloody ATA".
<ellis@no.spam> wrote in message news:1176517050.318538@no.spam...
> In article <13200j3ju6dhae0@news.supernews.com>,
> Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Why do you bother to post something so useless?
>
| |
| gtstephenson@gmail.com 2007-04-14, 1:14 am |
| On Apr 13, 12:22 pm, willbill <t...@worldwide.net> wrote:
> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>
> i've come across connection issues
> with my (admittedly limited) use
> of SATA drives, both data and power,
> most recently power
>
> what an aggrevation!
>
> are others seeing this?
>
> bill
I use SATA drives - Have a lot of experience with them. I have seen
some issues with them being fragile. It's critical that the cable be
exactly straight coming out of the drive. I have seen quite a few
broken cable ends where the side (edge) of the connector is broken.
That weakens the connector so the top and bottom spread and the spring
tension if the pins won't make adequate contact with the gold on the
drive PCB. Have only seen one case where the cable was bad without any
visual damage. I believe that case was a result of the cable being
stressed at 90 degrees over too short a radius.
Overall, I like SATA cables. They don't interfere with the airflow in
the chassis (as do the PATA cables.
| |
| Nik Simpson 2007-04-14, 7:14 am |
| willbill wrote:
> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>
> i've come across connection issues
> with my (admittedly limited) use
> of SATA drives, both data and power,
> most recently power
>
> what an aggrevation!
>
> are others seeing this?
>
Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
the SATA connectors on the disk. I've given up, and when I build a PC I
install a drive housing that occupies 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot
plug SATA bugs. Because of the way this is designed I've not had a
single problem with power or drive connectors since doing this. The one
I use is:
http://www.satadrives.com/sadrcafor4sa.html
--
Nik Simpson
| |
| Arno Wagner 2007-04-14, 7:14 am |
| In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nik Simpson <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> willbill wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
> the SATA connectors on the disk. I've given up, and when I build a PC I
> install a drive housing that occupies 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot
> plug SATA bugs. Because of the way this is designed I've not had a
> single problem with power or drive connectors since doing this. The one
> I use is:
> http://www.satadrives.com/sadrcafor4sa.html
Hmm. I hope they improved their manufacturing. I had two of
these with a PCB manufaactured shoddily enough, that I got CRC
errors on some of the disks. These errors were severe
enough that disks dropped out of the RAID they were in and
vanished vcompletely when connecting them directly. Took
me a week to debug and then I just threw this trash out.
I was also quite unimpressed with the cooling.
Arno
| |
| Nik Simpson 2007-04-15, 1:14 am |
| Arno Wagner wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nik Simpson <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hmm. I hope they improved their manufacturing. I had two of
> these with a PCB manufaactured shoddily enough, that I got CRC
> errors on some of the disks. These errors were severe
> enough that disks dropped out of the RAID they were in and
> vanished vcompletely when connecting them directly. Took
> me a week to debug and then I just threw this trash out.
>
> I was also quite unimpressed with the cooling.
>
> Arno
I've got one that's been going about a year now, the other is more
recent. So far I've not had any problems with them. But there are other
products out there, maybe there are some better ones.
--
Nik Simpson
| |
|
|
"willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:evomjo0oec@enews5.newsguy.com...
> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>
> i've come across connection issues
> with my (admittedly limited) use
> of SATA drives, both data and power,
> most recently power
>
> what an aggrevation!
>
> are others seeing this?
>
> bill
A bit of Blu Tack around the connectors does wonders.
| |
| Arno Wagner 2007-04-15, 7:13 pm |
| In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nik Simpson <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I've got one that's been going about a year now, the other is more
> recent. So far I've not had any problems with them. But there are other
> products out there, maybe there are some better ones.
Maybe the just fixed that production quality issue.
Arno
| |
| Rita Ä Berkowitz 2007-04-15, 7:13 pm |
| ellis@no.spam wrote:
>
> Why do you bother to post something so useless?
Useless? You don't hear me or anyone else bitching about SCA connections
failing.
Rita
| |
| Rita Ä Berkowitz 2007-04-15, 7:13 pm |
| Arno Wagner wrote:
>
> Maybe the just fixed that production quality issue.
I highly doubt it. Some Super Glue and two drywall screws help hold the
drives in place with these substandard pieces of garbage.
Rita
| |
| Rita Ä Berkowitz 2007-04-15, 7:13 pm |
| Arno Wagner wrote:
>
> Hmm. I hope they improved their manufacturing. I had two of
> these with a PCB manufaactured shoddily enough, that I got CRC
> errors on some of the disks. These errors were severe
> enough that disks dropped out of the RAID they were in and
> vanished vcompletely when connecting them directly. Took
> me a week to debug and then I just threw this trash out.
>
> I was also quite unimpressed with the cooling.
If you really must use SATA you ought to try Supermicro chasis and
backplanes as they are the best on the market.
www.supermicro.com
Rita
| |
|
|
| Steve Cousins 2007-04-16, 7:14 pm |
| Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:
>
>
>
> If you really must use SATA you ought to try Supermicro chasis and
> backplanes as they are the best on the market.
>
> www.supermicro.com
Sadly, even these have problems occasionally. I have a few of the
Supermicro 5 drive units and I had to send back one of them. We did
have one SCA connector fail a few years ago too. As for SATA vs. SCSI,
of course there are instances when SCSI is the only way to go (15K
drives for instance) but more often than not it is too limiting to go
with SCSI. We couldn't do a lot of what we do if we had to pay SCSI
prices. SATA has proven to be very reliable (except for one array that
used Maxtor drives... that was a nightmare but no data was lost and it
had nothing to do with SATA, just Maxtor). With about 90 SATA drives in
operation over the last year, we have had zero downtime due to the RAID
arrays and only one array that needed to failover to a spare drive.
With about 20 SCSI drives we had two drives that failed in the last
year. To be fair, the SCSI drives are much older than the SATA drives.
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-16, 7:14 pm |
| "willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message news:evomjo0oec@enews5.newsguy.com
> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>
> i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
> of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power
>
> what an aggrevation!
>
> are others seeing this?
That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
Buy the ons intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power plug.
>
> bill
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-16, 7:14 pm |
| "Nik Simpson" <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
> willbill wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
> the SATA connectors on the disk.
How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
> I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
> 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
> this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
> since doing this.
Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
> The one I use is:
>
>
> http://www.satadrives.com/sadrcafor4sa.html
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-16, 7:14 pm |
| "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:58fh81F2h0qqoU1@mid.individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nik Simpson <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Maybe the just fixed that production quality issue.
Or maybe it just never existed.
>
> Arno
| |
| Maxim S. Shatskih 2007-04-17, 7:14 am |
| > That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
> Buy the ons intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power plug.
Have you ever seen the SATA drive with old-ATA-style 5pin large power
connector?
If yes - can you name the models? I have only seens the SATA drives with new
style power connector, looking like the SATA data one but wider.
--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
| |
| Arno Wagner 2007-04-17, 7:14 am |
| In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Have you ever seen the SATA drive with old-ATA-style 5pin large power
> connector?
> If yes - can you name the models? I have only seens the SATA drives with new
> style power connector, looking like the SATA data one but wider.
I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
traditional 4 pin molex connector in addition to the SATA power connector.
Some early Seagete models I think.
Arno
| |
|
| The new Western Digital SATA2 KS series of drives have
both SATA and standard 4 pin Molex connectors.
| |
| Maxim S. Shatskih 2007-04-17, 1:14 pm |
| > I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
> traditional 4 pin molex connector
Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
ground too?)
--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
| |
| Bill Todd 2007-04-17, 7:14 pm |
| Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
>
> Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
> sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
> ground too?)
4 pins: +5v, +12v, ground, plus the 4th pin which is also sometimes
ground (but may sometimes be unconnected, I think - at least one of my
USB external power connectors is IIRC)
- bill
| |
| willbill 2007-04-18, 1:14 am |
| Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> "willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message news:evomjo0oec@enews5.newsguy.com
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
> Buy the ons intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power plug.
i agree and have purchased WD SATA drives
for that very reason
my Seagate Barracuda SATA drives only have
the SATA power connector. 
but it goes beyond just the damn lousy
power connector, it also applies to the
bloody SATA data cable/connector
bill
| |
| Arno Wagner 2007-04-18, 1:14 pm |
| In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
> sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
> ground too?)
+5-GND-GND-+12, i.e. 4 pins. SATA requires also 3.3V, but most drives do
not actually need it at the moment.
Arno
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-18, 1:14 pm |
| "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:58mpilF2hkkd3U1@mid.individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote:
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> +5-GND-GND-+12, i.e. 4 pins.
> SATA requires also 3.3V,
Bullshit, as always from the babblebot.
There is no such requirement.
> but most drives do not actually need it at the moment.
Because it's usually generated from the 5V internally.
Drives that don't use 5V will obviously have a problem if it is used with a
PS that doesn't supply 3.3 V at the Sata Power connector or are used with
a SATA to Molex converter cable.
>
> Arno
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-18, 1:14 pm |
| "willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message news:f049qu0tgv@enews5.newsguy.com
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> i agree and have purchased WD SATA drives for that very reason
>
> my Seagate Barracuda SATA drives only have the SATA power
> connector.
>
> but it goes beyond just the damn lousy power connector, it also applies
> to the bloody SATA data cable/connector
It shouldn't be a problem if you harness that data cable properly.
Cables should never run loose in any case.
>
> bill
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-18, 1:14 pm |
| "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:58jo11F2hamudU1@mid.individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote:
>
>
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
> traditional 4 pin molex connector in addition to the SATA power connector.
> Some early Seagete models I think.
>
> Arno
"Ian D" <taurus@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:_L2dndyxpcUMUrnbnZ2dnUVZ_uOmnZ2d@gi
ganews.com
> The new Western Digital SATA2 KS series of drives have
> both SATA and standard 4 pin Molex connectors.
Babblebot proven cluesless once again, as always.
| |
| Nik Simpson 2007-04-20, 1:14 pm |
| Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> "Nik Simpson" <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
>
>
> How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
>
>
> Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended. If that's
the case, then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim, since
pretty much every commercially available PC with SATA drives are
configured with direct connections from the motherboard to the drives
with no intervening backplane.
--
Nik Simpson
| |
| don't look 2007-04-21, 7:13 pm |
|
"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:f027s7$1d5q$1@news.mtu.ru...
plug.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Have you ever seen the SATA drive with old-ATA-style 5pin large power
> connector?
>
> If yes - can you name the models? I have only seens the SATA drives with
new
> style power connector, looking like the SATA data one but wider.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
My 160GB WD 1600js SATA II drive has both molex(4-pin) and sata power.Not
sure what you mean about old style 5-pin?
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-23, 1:13 pm |
| "Nik Simpson" <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>
> So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
> power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
> backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended.
I did?
I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
(with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.
> If that's the case,
So obviously not.
> then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim,
> since pretty much every commercially available PC with
> SATA drives are configured with direct connections
> from the motherboard to the drives with no intervening backplane.
Please try and work on your read apprehension.
| |
| Nik Simpson 2007-04-23, 7:13 pm |
| Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> "Nik Simpson" <n_simpson@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
>
>
> I did?
> I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
> (with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
> I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
> In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
> molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
> other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.
>
>
> So obviously not.
>
>
>
> Please try and work on your read apprehension.
First, if you want get all superior, you might want to look up
"apprehension" and "comprehension" in a dictionary!
Second you seem to be claiming that the PC systems from vendors like
DELL etc all use the 4-pin power connector (since they don't come with
SATA backplanes), and if they don't then they are not using drives the
way they are intended! I must say that hasn't been my experience. Also,
I've bought a whole lot of SATA drives in the last few years and I've
yet to see any indication on the box as to which type of power connector
I'm getting. Surely if the SATA drive vendors intended this distinction
they would make it clear on the packaging, which they don't.
Personally I think you are pulling this out of somewhere south of your
navel, and that drives with 4-pin power connectors are there for people
who have PSUs that don't have SATA-style power connectors. By the way if
you are right about this, care to explain why modern PC power suppliers
have SATA style power connectors?
--
Nik Simpson
| |
| Odie Ferrous 2007-04-23, 7:13 pm |
| Nik Simpson wrote:
>
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>
> First, if you want get all superior, you might want to look up
> "apprehension" and "comprehension" in a dictionary!
>
Nik,
Please don't wind Folknutter up.
Laughter is most definitely the best medicine, and his posts crease me
up no end.
I love them! The most hilarious poster on usenet, as far as I'm
concerned!
Read them, learn to live with them, realise the desperation in them, lay
back and laugh!
*Please* don't spoil my fun by chasing him away - he's precious.
Odie
| |
| Arno Wagner 2007-04-23, 7:13 pm |
| In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nik Simpson wrote:
> Nik,
> Please don't wind Folknutter up.
> Laughter is most definitely the best medicine, and his posts crease me
> up no end.
> I love them! The most hilarious poster on usenet, as far as I'm
> concerned!
> Read them, learn to live with them, realise the desperation in them, lay
> back and laugh!
> *Please* don't spoil my fun by chasing him away - he's precious.
Hehe. No chance of that. The only thing I really admire in Folkert is
his persistence. Truely amazing.
Arno
| |
| Folkert Rienstra 2007-04-26, 7:12 pm |
| "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:594r3dF2jiedjU1@mid.individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
Uhuh. Like you did, eh Nikki?
Obviously not.
http://www.google.com/search?num=10...btnG=Search&lr=
Sounds to me that the use of 'reading apprehension' was totally appropriate, Nikki.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
>
>
>
>
And now you know exactly what moves the odi(e)fe(r)rous, 'the stinking one'.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Hehe. No chance of that. The only thing I really admire in Folkert is
> his persistence. Truely amazing.
Sounds like a perfect description of yourself, babblebot. To a T.
Have you been gazing in that mirror again? I told you to stop that.
>
> Arno
| |
| Nik Simpson 2007-04-27, 7:12 am |
| I note you failed to address any of the points I made about SATA power
connectors. Just in case you were having comprehension or apprehension
difficulties, I'll restate them for you...
If drives with SATA-style power connector are not to be used except in
backplane type situations, how come:
1. Why do the drive vendors make no attempt to distinguish between those
drives that require SATA type power connectors and those that don't on
the retail packaging?
2. Why do modern PC power supplies have SATA type power connectors as a
standard feature?
3. Why do major PC vendors ship drives with SATA type power connectors
without worrying about putting a backplane in for the drives?
Come on you're such smart fellow, entertain us, give us an explanation!
--
Nik Simpson
|
|
|
|