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question about different distros
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| Walter Mitty 2005-12-01, 8:48 pm |
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Aren't LINUX advocates concerned at the number of different companies
throwing out their own flavor of LINUX? Doesnt it defeat the purpose a
little?
How many apps are written specifically for a certain distro, if any?
With regard to windows managers, Are there apps which will only run on
Gnome or only on KDE?
In the different distros are different developers working on their OWN
respective kernels or are the key kernels identical? Must kernels from
company (a) and company (b) have a core identical subset?
thanks for any info.
| |
| Neil Woods 2005-12-01, 8:48 pm |
| >>>>> Walter Mitty writes:
> Aren't LINUX advocates concerned at the number of different companies
> throwing out their own flavor of LINUX? Doesnt it defeat the purpose a
> little?
Well it depends. Many people like the fact that there is a large number
of distros available. Plus many distros are geared towards specific
groups of users, e.g. education, medical, scientific usage, etc.
> How many apps are written specifically for a certain distro, if any?
I'm not aware of any (except for distribution-specific applications such
as package managers and the like.)
> With regard to windows managers, Are there apps which will only run on
> Gnome or only on KDE?
No. Providing you have the relevant libraries installed, the window
manager or desktop environment should be irrelevant.
> In the different distros are different developers working on their OWN
> respective kernels or are the key kernels identical? Must kernels from
> company (a) and company (b) have a core identical subset?
Pretty much, yes. Though organisations will often apply their own
specific patches to the kernel. Debian, for instance, does this. The
canonical kernels are always available from kernel.org if you wish to
compile your own. You can find out quickly what the latest versions of
the kernel are by typing
% finger @kernel.org
> thanks for any info.
You're welcome.
--
Neil.
The existence of god implies a violation of causality.
| |
| SINNER 2005-12-01, 8:48 pm |
| * Neil Woods wrote in alt.os.linux.debian:
> You can find out quickly what the latest versions of
> the kernel are by typing
> % finger @kernel.org
Kewl! Thanks for that 
--
David
In America, it's not how much an item costs, it's how much you save.
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-02, 2:47 am |
| Neil Woods wrote:
>
>
> Pretty much, yes. Though organisations will often apply their own
> specific patches to the kernel. Debian, for instance, does this. The
> canonical kernels are always available from kernel.org if you wish to
> compile your own. You can find out quickly what the latest versions of
> the kernel are by typing
>
> % finger @kernel.org
>
Thanks for the reply.
I still have this "gut" feeling that the growing number of distros is
not good for Linux in general - its dividing the advocates and skillsets,
Example : it bugs the hell out of me that knoppix boot disk correctly
detects my video card & monitor and set a a 76 refresh rate at
1280x1024, yet debian coudlnt do jack in the self configuration and
ubuntu couldnt detect the monitor. Yet when I google up help, all I get
is "manually edit this and that" : there must be a way for it to work -
the knoppix distro does it So in other words, the distros are
developing little "we do that best" niches in order to attract new users
from other distros.
My biggest bugbear in my fight to get a nice stable, reliable linux
desktop is not the lack of info : its the fact that there is too much,
often conflicting, and often potentially hazardous to ones machine for
"Linux" when they only apply to a certain distro.
regards,
| |
|
| On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:43:56 +0100, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
> Aren't LINUX advocates concerned at the number of different companies
> throwing out their own flavor of LINUX? Doesnt it defeat the purpose a
> little?
Since the purpose is CHOICE, no, it doesn't.
>
> How many apps are written specifically for a certain distro, if any?
Typically installers and package management tools.
>
> With regard to windows managers, Are there apps which will only run on
> Gnome or only on KDE?
Not if you have the proper libraries installed.
>
> In the different distros are different developers working on their OWN
> respective kernels or are the key kernels identical? Must kernels from
> company (a) and company (b) have a core identical subset?
>
> thanks for any info.
A lot of distros put in their own specific kernel patches.
| |
| Janis Blechert 2005-12-03, 5:47 pm |
| On 2005-12-02, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Neil Woods wrote:
>
> My biggest bugbear in my fight to get a nice stable, reliable linux
> desktop is not the lack of info : its the fact that there is too much,
> often conflicting, and often potentially hazardous to ones machine for
> "Linux" when they only apply to a certain distro.
what I do is to read through the manual, for most cases there is already
information there. then I check through tldp.org and see if that gets up
anything (useful for things like configuring this and that). for smaller
bugs like the one with the resolution there sadly isn't anything else
than google but if you know how to fix a certain thing you should
contribute it to your distributions manual so other people won't have to
search for it.
this is the only way documentation improves.
--
| /"\ ASCII Ribbon | Janis Blechert (mjb) http://mjb.de.tc/ |
| \ / Campaign Against | janis.blechert@gmx.net encrypted mail welcome |
| X HTML In Mail | PGP key: http://mjb.de.tc/mjb-pub.asc |
| / \ And News | FFE6 83B9 F796 D494 1E2F B8A8 2289 0E85 A497 9CD1 |
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-04, 7:46 am |
| ray wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:43:56 +0100, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Since the purpose is CHOICE, no, it doesn't.
>
It does as the most popular distros become commercial proucts.
| |
| John Hasler 2005-12-04, 5:47 pm |
| Walter Mitty wrote:
> Aren't LINUX advocates concerned at the number of different companies
> throwing out their own flavor of LINUX? Doesnt it defeat the purpose a
> little?
What "purpose"?
ray wrote:
> Since the purpose is CHOICE, no, it doesn't.
Walter Mitty wrote:
> It does as the most popular distros become commercial proucts.
So what?
--
John Hasler
| |
|
| On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:04:01 +0100, Walter Mitty wrote:
> ray wrote:
>
>
> It does as the most popular distros become commercial proucts.
And they are still one of the CHOICES available.
| |
| Madhusudan Singh 2005-12-04, 5:47 pm |
| Walter Mitty wrote:
> Neil Woods wrote:
That was neat.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> I still have this "gut" feeling that the growing number of distros is
> not good for Linux in general - its dividing the advocates and skillsets,
>
Since applications are not distro dependent (other than package managers),
how does it divide skillsets ? Advocates, maybe, but how does it matter ?
> Example : it bugs the hell out of me that knoppix boot disk correctly
> detects my video card & monitor and set a a 76 refresh rate at
> 1280x1024, yet debian coudlnt do jack in the self configuration and
> ubuntu couldnt detect the monitor. Yet when I google up help, all I get
> is "manually edit this and that" : there must be a way for it to work -
> the knoppix distro does it So in other words, the distros are
> developing little "we do that best" niches in order to attract new users
> from other distros.
>
Which is inter-distro competition, which can only be good for Linux as a
whole. I use Knoppix as a live CD fairly often, but I prefer Debian for
installing on my system.
Windows, Apple and most Unix versions out there do not have this strength.
Surely evolution teaches us that species capable of genetic diversity are
the most likely to survive large scale changes in the environment. Linux
distros are something like different mutations of the same species.
> My biggest bugbear in my fight to get a nice stable, reliable linux
> desktop is not the lack of info : its the fact that there is too much,
> often conflicting, and often potentially hazardous to ones machine for
> "Linux" when they only apply to a certain distro.
I am not aware of any Linux technical info that does not qualify which
distro it is referring to (unless it is uniformly applicable).
| |
| Mark South 2005-12-04, 5:47 pm |
| On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:43:56 +0100, Walter Mitty wrote:
> Aren't LINUX advocates concerned at the number of different companies
> throwing out their own flavor of LINUX? Doesnt it defeat the purpose a
> little?
The best thing you could do would be to get a law passed to prevent people
from building and distributing their own customised distros. Each new
distro should have to be authorised by an approved industry body, like
SCO, or Microsoft.
Also, giving this stuff away for free is totally immoral, right? Cos
that's like, y'know, socialism! And freedom of speech, thought, and
commerce!
So it's your sacred duty to put a stop to it, OK?
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo znexfbhgu2000@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 7:47 am |
| ray became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:04:01 +0100, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
> And they are still one of the CHOICES available.
>
Choice is not necessarily a good thing as talent becomes diluted. Just
IMO of course.
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 7:47 am |
| John Hasler became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> Walter Mitty wrote:
>
> What "purpose"?
>
If I have to explain that, then its clear we will never agree.
> ray wrote:
>
> Walter Mitty wrote:
>
> So what?
See above.
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 7:47 am |
| Mark South became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:43:56 +0100, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
> The best thing you could do would be to get a law passed to prevent people
> from building and distributing their own customised distros. Each new
> distro should have to be authorised by an approved industry body, like
> SCO, or Microsoft.
>
> Also, giving this stuff away for free is totally immoral, right? Cos
> that's like, y'know, socialism! And freedom of speech, thought, and
> commerce!
>
> So it's your sacred duty to put a stop to it, OK?
Ye gods. Since when did Linux advocates become so stroppy?
So you progress from me questioning the ability of multiple distros to
mature and remain viable to me wanting to lead a holy crusade? Not me pal.
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 7:47 am |
| Madhusudan Singh became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
> That was neat.
>
It is isnt it?
>
> Since applications are not distro dependent (other than package managers),
> how does it divide skillsets ? Advocates, maybe, but how does it
I didnt necessarily realise that at the time. However, it does seem
obvious enough to me that if the commercial distros eat up the *real*
talent (and not the fanboy advocates) then the self help arenas will
be hurt.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Which is inter-distro competition, which can only be good for Linux as a
> whole. I use Knoppix as a live CD fairly often, but I prefer Debian for
> installing on my system.
In the "survival" of the fittest, maybe. But you can bet your bottom
dollar that some of these distros WILL fail and that the survivors
wont be handing everything out for free of charge forever. Nice that
people like Debian exist : even if it is hard to install compared to (K)Ubuntu.
>
> Windows, Apple and most Unix versions out there do not have this strength,.
> Surely evolution teaches us that species capable of genetic diversity are
> the most likely to survive large scale changes in the environment. Linux
> distros are something like different mutations of the same species.
>
>
> I am not aware of any Linux technical info that does not qualify which
> distro it is referring to (unless it is uniformly applicable).
About 80% of what I google up. I have learnt to be more selective :-;
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| Mark South 2005-12-05, 7:47 am |
| On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:57:02 +0000, Walter Mitty wrote:
> Mark South became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
>
> Ye gods. Since when did Linux advocates become so stroppy?
Since the woods filled up with wintrolls.
> So you progress from me questioning the ability of multiple distros to
> mature and remain viable to me wanting to lead a holy crusade? Not me pal.
You don't approve of diversity among Linux distros. So you have to either
do something about it or learn to live with it. This was the logical
conclusion towards which I was nudging you by the use of irony. Without
valid result, alas.
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo znexfbhgu2000@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 7:47 am |
| Mark South became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:57:02 +0000, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
> Since the woods filled up with wintrolls.
>
>
> You don't approve of diversity among Linux distros. So you have to either
> do something about it or learn to live with it. This was the logical
> conclusion towards which I was nudging you by the use of irony. Without
> valid result, alas.
Fra from logical I'm afraid. If we all started waving cudgels then the
world would be a rather confusing and even more violent place.
Ditto for the different distros : work together to get one or two
main, free distros working properly on a wider HW platform as opposed
to pulling different ways under the pretence of building them for
different verticals.
Just IMO of course : an opinion based on recent experiences of moving
to Linux from Windows and not particularly coloured by any hidden
agenda : I prefer the stability, response and tools on Linux. I prefer
the "out of the box" and gaming platform that is Windows.
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| John Hasler 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| Walter Mitty writes:
> Ditto for the different distros : work together to get one or two main,
> free distros working properly on a wider HW platform as opposed to
> pulling different ways under the pretence of building them for different
> verticals.
You can have what you want quite easily without the rest of us changing our
behavior at all. Just pick a distribution (Red Hat is the usual) and
pretend that no others exist.
--
John Hasler
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| John Hasler became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> Walter Mitty writes:
>
> You can have what you want quite easily without the rest of us changing our
> behavior at all. Just pick a distribution (Red Hat is the usual) and
> pretend that no others exist.
I think you have missed the point. So I will clarify :
When you have a system which breaks up into seperate branches going
different ways then it becomes more & more unlikely that those
branches will ever come back to one point again.
Read this and you will see what I mean :
http://www.start-linux.com/articles/article_173.php
See "current problems"
My point is that researching solutions to *my* installation problems
often resulted in wading through pissing competitions between
different distro advocates.
I dont want to "pick one distro" and forget the rest : because my
distro doesnt work properly. I want one that works fully : and that is
hampered, IMO, bay the skillsets getting watered down in race for the
best distro.
This is not knocking Linux at all. Just my experiences of the past
couple of weeks.
| |
|
| On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:54:38 +0000, Walter Mitty wrote:
> ray became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
>
> Choice is not necessarily a good thing as talent becomes diluted. Just
> IMO of course.
The MS 'talent' is certainly not diluted!
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de GBMT4fbcHG+JFIJTC7/4KgOr+QPScUL1CJhAvCayffsg==
User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.1pl1 (Debian)
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.os.linux.debian:2928
ray became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:54:38 +0000, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
> The MS 'talent' is certainly not diluted!
>
What does that mean? They must be doing something right : I have run
Xp for ages now with no probs at all and damn decent application SW
too. To pretend that the MS guys are substandard is being silly.
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| Mark South 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:28:32 +0000, Walter Mitty wrote:
> I think you have missed the point.
FX: *WHOOSH* of military-grade tungsten-cored irony.
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo znexfbhgu2000@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
| |
| John Hasler 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| Walter Mitty writes:
> I have run Xp for ages now with no probs at all and damn decent
> application SW too.
Then what is your problem? You've got an OS and applications that do what
you want and you have your desired lack of choice as well. Why aren't you
happy?
--
John Hasler
| |
| John Hasler 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| Walter Mitty writes:
> My point is that researching solutions to *my* installation problems
> often resulted in wading through pissing competitions between different
> distro advocates.
I doubt that the support facilities provided by your chosen distribution
contain any such "pissing competitions".
> I dont want to "pick one distro" and forget the rest : because my distro
> doesnt work properly.
Pick another one.
> I want one that works fully...
Or pay someone to fix what you have.
> ...and that is hampered, IMO, bay the skillsets getting watered down in
> race for the best distro.
So competition is bad.
Here is a hint: outlawing Debian would not cause me to start contributing
to Red Hat.
> This is not knocking Linux at all.
It is attacking Linux (and all of Free Software) at a very fundamental
level.
--
John Hasler
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| John Hasler became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> Walter Mitty writes:
>
> Then what is your problem? You've got an OS and applications that do what
> you want and you have your desired lack of choice as well. Why aren't you
> happy?
is that really any of your business? I am just pointing out that just
because someone works for MS, it doesnt mean they are "useless".
Jesus.
| |
| Walter Mitty 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| John Hasler became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
> Walter Mitty writes:
>
> I doubt that the support facilities provided by your chosen distribution
> contain any such "pissing competitions".
>
>
> Pick another one.
Do you you always make such assumptions?
>
>
> Or pay someone to fix what you have.
I'm astonished. really.
>
>
> So competition is bad.
Where did I say that? Hang on : yes. In this case it is. IMO.
>
> Here is a hint: outlawing Debian would not cause me to start contributing
> to Red Hat.
I'm making no assumptions about you personally.
>
>
> It is attacking Linux (and all of Free Software) at a very fundamental
> level.
I think that you are wrong. All to their own.
And to think that its you suggesting I pay to get a woking distro.
--
Science? Is there nothing it can't teach us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4487010.stm
Are you ready for this? "Children who live or go to school near fast
food restaurants are more likely to eat there, a consumer report said."
| |
| Michael Thomas 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 11:22:04 -0600, John Hasler <jhasler@debian.org>
wrote:
>Walter Mitty writes:
>
>Then what is your problem? You've got an OS and applications that do what
>you want and you have your desired lack of choice as well. Why aren't you
>happy?
Some people just want to XXXXX?
MT
| |
| John Hasler 2005-12-05, 5:49 pm |
| Walter Mitty writes:
> And to think that its you suggesting I pay to get a woking distro.
Another misconception. It's free as in speech, not as in beer.
--
John Hasler
| |
|
| On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:34:14 +0000, Walter Mitty wrote:
> ray became a google statistic earlier when he frothed:
>
> What does that mean? They must be doing something right : I have run
> Xp for ages now with no probs at all and damn decent application SW
> too. To pretend that the MS guys are substandard is being silly.
What it means is that MS has all the money in the world to pay the best
programmers in the world, and they still have major problems. It is still
true that the average new MS install can reside on the internet for about
15 minutes before being compromised. That is not even long enough to apply
the patches! There are also major security flaws in IE, MS Office and
Outlook. With all their talent and money MS can't fix what they have. I'm
certainly not concerned about the Linux talent pool becoming diluted. In
the case of Linux development, it's really not the case that you have that
much duplication. Improvements, for example, in The Gimp are passed along
to all distributions.
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