Linux Debian support - Dual boot question

Author

Dual boot question

Orv

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

I have two hard drives. One with Win XP (C

and the other I want to put
Debian on.

I want to keep 'NTLDR' and edit my 'boot.ini' on C: to create the dual boot
instead of installing GRUB or Lilo as the boot manager. This system is
shared by other family members and I want them to be able to turn the comp
on and go right into WinXP (Short timeout which defaults to WinXP boot) as
to not cause confusion for them. I don't want to have to delete, create, etc
the MBR in the future (just edit the boot.ini) should I change the linux
hard drive also.

Questions:

1) When I install Debian to the second drive do I skip (cancel) the boot
manager or do I point it to the Debian drive?

2)Do I have to copy the linux boot image to the WinXP (C

and edit my
boot.ini?

3) How do I copy the linux boot image and place it on c:?

ray

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:44:29 -0400, Orv wrote:

> I have two hard drives. One with Win XP (C

and edit my
> boot.ini?
>
> 3) How do I copy the linux boot image and place it on c:?

Sumo Wrestler (or just ate too much)

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

Orv wrote:
> I have two hard drives. One with Win XP (C

and the other I want to put
> Debian on.
>
> I want to keep 'NTLDR' and edit my 'boot.ini' on C: to create the dual boot
> instead of installing GRUB or Lilo as the boot manager. This system is
> shared by other family members and I want them to be able to turn the comp
> on and go right into WinXP (Short timeout which defaults to WinXP boot) as
> to not cause confusion for them. I don't want to have to delete, create, etc
> the MBR in the future (just edit the boot.ini) should I change the linux
> hard drive also.
>
> Questions:

I can answer your questions--sort of--because I've done this, but I
didn't use Grub; I used LILO, and the Linux distribution I installed was
Slackware.

Make sure you first read the doc that tells you how to do this:
$ zless /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-txt/Linux+NT-Loader.gz

>
> 1) When I install Debian to the second drive do I skip (cancel) the boot
> manager or do I point it to the Debian drive?
>

You would skip letting the debian installer setup a boot manager because
you'll have to set it up manually, and you certainly don't want Debian's
boot manager (GRUB) to overwrite Window's boot loader--making Windows
unbootable.

> 2)Do I have to copy the linux boot image to the WinXP (C

and edit my
> boot.ini?
>

Yes, but first, you have to create the boot image. What I did was to
install LILO to the superblock of the root partition (in my case
/dev/hdb5). Then I copied the bootsector to a disk file:

dd if=/dev/hdb5 of=bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1

> 3) How do I copy the linux boot image and place it on c:?
>
>

Create a small MSDOS-FAT partition to transfer files between Linux and
Windows (or use a floppy disk); store the boot image on that partition
(or floppy). Then reboot into Windows and copy the boot image file onto C:

Important Note 1: I advise installing LILO immediately after initial
installation of Debian (before you reboot). Reportedly, GRUB doesn't
like being installed to the superblock of a reiserfs partition, and
since you do not want to clobber the Windows MBR, that leaves you with
LILO.

Important Note 2: The stock kernel for Debian is not monolithic--IOW, it
doesn't contain everything needed to mount a root partition and boot
from it. Debian ships a minimalist kernel that requires an initrd which
contains modules such as ide-disk.o and reiserfs.o. So when you install
LILO, make sure get the initrd recognized.

If you could get GRUB installed to the superblock of the root partition,
that would be the best because it seems that Debian's initrd image
doesn't play well with LILO (I never got it to work). YMMV.

HTH
Sumo

Sumo Wrestler (or just ate too much)

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

Sumo Wrestler (or just ate too much) wrote:
> Orv wrote:
>
> You would skip letting the debian installer setup a boot manager because
> you'll have to set it up manually, and you certainly don't want Debian's
> boot manager (GRUB) to overwrite Window's boot loader--making Windows
> unbootable.
>

On second thought allowing the Debian installer to setup the boot
manager might not be such a problem so long as you can ensure that the
boot manager is installed only to the root partition and the superblock
of that partition--NOT to the MBR (master boot record).

When I installed Debian 3.1r1, installing to the superblock was not an
option (if memory serves).

Orv

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

I know this is possible with grub or lilo...however, if I decide to scrap
Debian, linux, etc.., in the future won't I have to create a new MBR for
windows boot up?? This is what I am trying to avoid.

"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.04.25.20.43.15.597717@zianet.com...
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:44:29 -0400, Orv wrote:
>
>
> In case you didn't know: when you set a dual boot with grub or lilo, it is
> certainly possible to set whichever system you want to be the default - if
> you want MS, that is no problem. I'd suggest you think about doing that
> and set the default timeout to five seconds - should not interfere with
> anyone.
>
>

Peter J Ross

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:44:29 -0400, Orv <pcbidder@hotmal.com> wrote in
alt.os.linux.debian:

> I have two hard drives. One with Win XP (C

and the other I want to put
> Debian on.
>
> I want to keep 'NTLDR' and edit my 'boot.ini' on C: to create the dual boot
> instead of installing GRUB or Lilo as the boot manager. This system is
> shared by other family members and I want them to be able to turn the comp
> on and go right into WinXP (Short timeout which defaults to WinXP boot) as
> to not cause confusion for them.

You can do this with Grub. After installing Debian and allowing Grub
to be installed to the MBR of the first drive, just set WinXP as the
default with a short timeout. E.g., edit /boot/grub/menu.list after
installing Debian to look something like this:

default 1

# not "0", because we're using 0 as a comment

timeout 5

# or a lower number, in seconds, if you have quick reactions

# This is a comment for your potentially confused Windows users:

title Windows will begin loading shortly if you really want it to.
root

# This is the Windows stuff. It's probably best to put it at the top
# to avoid confusing your users.
# Debian will probably put it at the bottom by default.

title Microsoft Windows
root (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

[don't change any of this without reading the documentation!]

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

Your next step will be to show your Windows users how much more fun
they could have with Debian. :-)

PJR :-)
--
_ _(o)_(o)_ _ FSM: http://www.venganza.org/
.._\`:_ F S M _:' \_, PJR: http://www.insurgent.org/~pjr/
/ (`---'\ `-. AUK: http://www.netcabal.com/auk/
,-` _) (_, F_P God's Own Newsreader: http://www.slrn.org/

SteveSch

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:01:50 -0400, Orv wrote:

> I know this is possible with grub or lilo...however, if I decide to scrap
> Debian, linux, etc.., in the future won't I have to create a new MBR for
> windows boot up?? This is what I am trying to avoid.

With Win98 removing Grub and restoring the master boot record was as easy
as typing fdisk /mbr from a command prompt. Very easy and fast.

Steve

Sumo Wrestler (or just ate too much)

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

Orv wrote:
> [...] if I decide to scrap
> Debian, linux, etc.., in the future won't I have to create a new MBR for
> windows boot up?? This is what I am trying to avoid.
>

I advise against modifying the Windows MBR. In fact, it's a good idea to
save the MBR to an MSDOS formatted floppy just in case the MBR gets
overwritten somehow.

Bill Marcum

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:01:50 -0400, Orv
<pcbidder@hotmal.com> wrote:
> I know this is possible with grub or lilo...however, if I decide to scrap
> Debian, linux, etc.., in the future won't I have to create a new MBR for
> windows boot up?? This is what I am trying to avoid.
>
If you decide to scrap Windows won't you have to create a new MBR?

--
YES! YES! YES! Oh, YES! (ooops, I sound like Meg Ryan ;-)
-- Ian Nandhra

Orv

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

Think I'm going to try ntldr with help from bootpart. I have to say the peer
pressure to use something else is incredible!

Will let you know how it turns out.

"Peter J Ross" <pjr@kookbusters.org> wrote in message
news:slrne4t3rf.5q2.pjr@nntp.alcatroll.com...
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:44:29 -0400, Orv <pcbidder@hotmal.com> wrote in
> alt.os.linux.debian:
>
>
> You can do this with Grub. After installing Debian and allowing Grub
> to be installed to the MBR of the first drive, just set WinXP as the
> default with a short timeout. E.g., edit /boot/grub/menu.list after
> installing Debian to look something like this:
>
>
>
> default 1
>
> # not "0", because we're using 0 as a comment
>
> timeout 5
>
> # or a lower number, in seconds, if you have quick reactions
>
> # This is a comment for your potentially confused Windows users:
>
> title Windows will begin loading shortly if you really want it
> to.
> root
>
> # This is the Windows stuff. It's probably best to put it at the top
> # to avoid confusing your users.
> # Debian will probably put it at the bottom by default.
>
> title Microsoft Windows
> root (hd0,0)
> makeactive
> chainloader +1
>
> ### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
>
> [don't change any of this without reading the documentation!]
>
> ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
>
>
>
> Your next step will be to show your Windows users how much more fun
> they could have with Debian. :-)
>
>
> PJR :-)
> --
> _ _(o)_(o)_ _ FSM: http://www.venganza.org/
> ._\`:_ F S M _:' \_, PJR: http://www.insurgent.org/~pjr/
> / (`---'\ `-. AUK: http://www.netcabal.com/auk/
> ,-` _) (_, F_P God's Own Newsreader: http://www.slrn.org/
>

ray

2006-04-27, 6:54 am

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:37:14 -0400, Orv wrote:

> Think I'm going to try ntldr with help from bootpart. I have to say the peer
> pressure to use something else is incredible!
>
> Will let you know how it turns out.
>
>
>

You might have a look at the howtos on www.tldp.org. I know there are
several that deal with dual/multi boots - I'm not sure whether any cover
ntldr, but they may.