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Have a few questions before installing debian
|
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| zacariaz@gmail.com 2007-04-24, 1:13 am |
| Yes, i've desided to install Debian on my laptop, however there are
question i have been unable to get answers too.
1=2E Which processor architecture? the cpu im using is an "Intel=C2=AE
Centrino=C2=AE Core=E2=84=A22 Duo T7200" and i know of course that the x86 =
will
work, but what about the dual core and 64 bit thingy... Will it limit
the cpu? should i use amd64 instead? I mean it is a intel cpu... At
first the IA-64 seemed a logically choice as the former architecture
was called ia-32, but there is, it seems, some confusion there.
2=2E The chipset im using is "Intel=C2=AE 945PM Express". How do i know if =
it
is possible to get compatible driver and stuff?
3=2E Which GUI does debian recoment? I seem to remember reading
something about them not recomenting KDE even though i've allso read
that it should be very good. Then there is gnome, and some others...
The reason for this seemenly stupid question is that i want it to work
as a whole and therefor i want to use whatever debian has been testet
with... but maybe all that isnt an isue anymore, if thats the case,
what GUI would you recoment?
Well, that was it for now i think, thank you in advance...
Regards
| |
|
| On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:32:42 -0700, zacariaz wrote:
> Yes, i've desided to install Debian on my laptop, however there are
> question i have been unable to get answers too.
>
> 1. Which processor architecture? the cpu im using is an "Intel®
> Centrino® Core™2 Duo T7200" and i know of course that the x86 will
> work, but what about the dual core and 64 bit thingy... Will it limit
> the cpu? should i use amd64 instead? I mean it is a intel cpu... At
> first the IA-64 seemed a logically choice as the former architecture
> was called ia-32, but there is, it seems, some confusion there.
Not that familiar with it. If it is a 64bit then I should think IA64.
>
> 2. The chipset im using is "Intel® 945PM Express". How do i know if it
> is possible to get compatible driver and stuff?
I'm fairly sure that won't be a problem. How about booting one of the more
'standard' Live CDs - like knoppix or elive - if they work, then there
should be no problem.
>
> 3. Which GUI does debian recoment? I seem to remember reading
> something about them not recomenting KDE even though i've allso read
> that it should be very good. Then there is gnome, and some others...
> The reason for this seemenly stupid question is that i want it to work
> as a whole and therefor i want to use whatever debian has been testet
> with... but maybe all that isnt an isue anymore, if thats the case,
> what GUI would you recoment?
I see that there is a KDE CD and an XFCE CD - this would lead to believe
it probably defaults to Gnome. I'd recommend you install KDE and Gnome.
Use them both and see what you prefer. I've used KDE for a long time, but
recently changed my preference to Gnome.
BTW - you'll probably want to try the newtork install rather than download
all 24 CDs or three DVDs.
>
> Well, that was it for now i think, thank you in advance...
>
>
> Regards
| |
| John Hasler 2007-04-24, 1:13 am |
| ray writes:
> If it is a 64bit then I should think IA64.
No. IA64 is Intel Itanium. He wants amd64.
zacariaz wrote:
> Which GUI does debian recoment?
Debian doesn't recommend any particular desktop. You can choose KDE or
Gnome or XFCE or no "desktop" at all.
> i want to use whatever debian has been testet with...
Debian has been tested with everything that it includes.
ray writes:
> BTW - you'll probably want to try the newtork install rather than
> download all 24 CDs or three DVDs.
Right, but he wouldn't need all the CDs anyway. Most of them contain only
source.
--
John Hasler
| |
| ***** charles 2007-04-24, 7:12 am |
| ><zacariaz@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1177378362.250711.268240@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>Yes, i've desided to install Debian on my laptop, however there are
>question i have been unable to get answers too.
>
>1. Which processor architecture? the cpu im using is an "Intel®
>Centrino® CoreT2 Duo T7200" and i know of course that the x86 will
>work, but what about the dual core and 64 bit thingy... Will it limit
>the cpu? should i use amd64 instead? I mean it is a intel cpu... At
>first the IA-64 seemed a logically choice as the former architecture
>was called ia-32, but there is, it seems, some confusion there.
>
>2. The chipset im using is "Intel® 945PM Express". How do i know if it
>is possible to get compatible driver and stuff?
>
>3. Which GUI does debian recoment? I seem to remember reading
>something about them not recomenting KDE even though i've allso read
>that it should be very good. Then there is gnome, and some others...
>The reason for this seemenly stupid question is that i want it to work
>as a whole and therefor i want to use whatever debian has been testet
>with... but maybe all that isnt an isue anymore, if thats the case,
>what GUI would you recoment?
>
>Well, that was it for now i think, thank you in advance...
>
>Regards
1. IA-64 is ITANIUM. You want the AMD64 version of the software
if you still want to do the 64bit thing. Intels' official name for AMD64
type software is EM64T which is a mouthfull and Intel is trying to
change it. Intel is pissed that the 64bit version of the software has AMD
in the name of it. Most people still use the 32bit version of the software
even on AMD64 type systems since the 64bit software especially the
drivers haven't matured yet.
2. The chipset isn't the big problem, getting drivers for wifi and sleep
modes are. I would suggest DO NOT start with Debian, start with
Ubuntu 7.04 i386 Desktop in live mode to see if it picks up all the
devices in the laptop. If it does, install and use it for a while. The
standard interface will be Gnome. Gnome is a little behind KDE in
its' "slickness" but I prefer Gnome for the way it started out with
the licensing issues (KDE has long worked them out). Once the
64bit driver issues have been worked out, you can switch to that
later. One big reason to use the AMD64 version of the software
is if your system has more than 4 Gigabytes of ram (not likely).
3. KDE has a few more programs in the standard install than
Gnome and it does look a little more glossy but Gnome is getting
there. Once you do an install you can add "thousands" of programs
to do tons of different things. I would like to see Gnome and KDE
combine with lots of eye candy and lots of sound candy for the
masses but I doubt that will ever happen. It would do wonders
for the Linux community against Windows. There are other
"windowing" gui's but they tend to be designed for other perposes
like size or speed or smallness of resource requirements.
later.....
| |
| zacariaz@gmail.com 2007-04-24, 1:14 pm |
| Thank for all the answers, they seem to answer most of my questions,
but a few still remains about the architecture.
If i understood correctly i can choose either AMD64 or x86, they
should both work, but i've allso heard about x86-64, even though i
havent been able to find anything about it on debians site.
The bottom line is that the kernel i want to use have to be able to
handle both the 64bit part and the multiple cores part.
If i install the x86 (to be on the safe side), is it then polssible to
upgrade the kernel to do that or do i have to start out with AMD64 to
get 64bit support? Does AMD64 allso have multiple cores support?
Regards
| |
|
| On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:32:11 -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> ray writes:
>
> No. IA64 is Intel Itanium. He wants amd64.
>
> zacariaz wrote:
>
> Debian doesn't recommend any particular desktop. You can choose KDE or
> Gnome or XFCE or no "desktop" at all.
>
>
> Debian has been tested with everything that it includes.
>
> ray writes:
>
> Right, but he wouldn't need all the CDs anyway. Most of them contain only
> source.
I would assume that would be the case for the DVDs as well - is there a
list somewhere of which ones you'd need?
| |
| John Hasler 2007-04-24, 1:14 pm |
| ray writes:
> I would assume that would be the case for the DVDs as well - is there a
> list somewhere of which ones you'd need?
The first CD/DVD contains all of the essential and important stuff and as
much more as will fit. The CD/DVDs are filled in order of popularity of
packages. The first one will give you a working system with a desktop (if
you want a desktop). Other packages can be installed over the Net as you
find that you need them.
--
John Hasler
| |
|
|
| Neil Ellwood 2007-04-24, 1:14 pm |
| On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:41:08 -0700, zacariaz wrote:
> Thank for all the answers, they seem to answer most of my questions,
> but a few still remains about the architecture.
>
> If i understood correctly i can choose either AMD64 or x86, they
> should both work, but i've allso heard about x86-64, even though i
> havent been able to find anything about it on debians site.
Other distros such as mandriva use x86_64 which seems to be the equivalent
to Debians amd64.
> The bottom line is that the kernel i want to use have to be able to
> handle both the 64bit part and the multiple cores part.
>
> If i install the x86 (to be on the safe side), is it then polssible to
> upgrade the kernel to do that or do i have to start out with AMD64 to
> get 64bit support? Does AMD64 allso have multiple cores support?
That I don't really know but would suspect that it does.
--
Neil
reverse 'r' and'a' - delete 'l' for email
| |
| gregor herrmann 2007-04-24, 7:13 pm |
| On 23 Apr 2007 18:32:42 -0700, zacariaz@gmail.com wrote:
> 2. The chipset im using is "Intel® 945PM Express". How do i know if it
> is possible to get compatible driver and stuff?
That's what I got here:
gregoa@nerys:~$ lspci|grep 945
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS/940GML and 945GT Express Memory Controller Hub (rev 03)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
And everything works fine.
gregor
--
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| |
| Andreas Janssen 2007-04-24, 7:13 pm |
| Neil Ellwood (<cral.elllwood2@btopenworld.com> ) wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:41:08 -0700, zacariaz wrote:
>
> Other distros such as mandriva use x86_64 which seems to be the
> equivalent to Debians amd64.
>
> That I don't really know but would suspect that it does.
You can install an amd64 kernel (which is included in the i386 version
of Debian), but you cannot, by normal means of package
management, "upgrade" your i386 system to the amd64 version. The
programs you use need to be from the same architecture as the libraries
you have installed.
You can however install 32 bit compatibility libraries on a 64 Bit
system (there are packages for some basic libs in amd64), or run an 32
bit chroot on a 64 bit system. That means that you create a minimal
i386 system including libraries and applications inside of a
subdirectory on your running system. This is recommended if you want to
run an amd64 system but need to use proprietary software like Flash
that are not available for amd64.
You probably can also run an amd64 chroot on an i386 systen, although I
never heard of anybody trying this.
As for the multi core support, this is as far as I know supported by the
smp stuff in the Linux kernel. Recent Kernels have been able to
autodetect whether they need to use one or more CPUs/cores at boot
time, so there are no special smp kernels anymore.
regards
Andreas Janssen
--
Andreas Janssen <andreas.janssen@bigfoot.com>
PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC801674 ICQ #17079270
Registered Linux User #267976
http://www.andreas-janssen.de/debian-tipps-sarge.html
| |
| AJackson 2007-04-24, 7:13 pm |
| On Apr 24, 2:41 pm, zacar...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thank for all the answers, they seem to answer most of my questions,
> but a few still remains about the architecture.
>
> If i understood correctly i can choose either AMD64 or x86, they
> should both work, but i've allso heard about x86-64, even though i
> havent been able to find anything about it on debians site.
x86-64 is an old name for AMD64. You should use x86 or AMD64 on your
computer.
> The bottom line is that the kernel i want to use have to be able to
> handle both the 64bit part and the multiple cores part.
No problem, Debian (linux ?) has support for this before.
> If i install the x86 (to be on the safe side), is it then polssible to
> upgrade the kernel to do that or do i have to start out with AMD64 to
> get 64bit support? Does AMD64 allso have multiple cores support?
AMD64 has as x86 support for multiple CPUs (multiple cores).
I think that there is a AMD64 kernel package in Debian x86
installation.
To upgrade to AMD64 later, I think that you need to reinstall.
A tip, us a separate /home partition. Then it is much easier to make a
clean new installation without loosing user data.
> Regards
| |
| gOLdenHaWK3D 2007-04-25, 7:13 am |
| > If i understood correctly i can choose either AMD64 or x86, they
> should both work, but i've allso heard about x86-64, even though i
> havent been able to find anything about it on debians site.
You should use the 32-bit version of Debian as it is more stable and
there are more device drivers for the 32-bit, rather than the 64-bit.
And also, give a try to the new Debian-derivative Ubuntu 7.04, if you
are a newbie to Linux. It has more driver support and all the features
of Debian.
> The bottom line is that the kernel i want to use have to be able to
> handle both the 64bit part and the multiple cores part.
If you need a kernel that handles the 64-bit part, then you have to go
for the 64-bit version of Debian. Handling multicores is not a big job
for even the 32-bit kernels. Just try installing the "smp" version of
the kernel. smp stands for symmetric multiprocessing, for multi-cores
and hyper-threading.
> If i install the x86 (to be on the safe side), is it then polssible to
> upgrade the kernel to do that or do i have to start out with AMD64 to
> get 64bit support? Does AMD64 allso have multiple cores support?
AMD64 kernel also has the multiple core support. Just as I said above,
install the kernel with the smp support. This would do the job.
| |
| ***** charles 2007-04-25, 1:13 pm |
| <zacariaz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177418468.530273.163900@t39g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Thank for all the answers, they seem to answer most of my questions,
> but a few still remains about the architecture.
>
> If i understood correctly i can choose either AMD64 or x86, they
> should both work, but i've allso heard about x86-64, even though i
> havent been able to find anything about it on debians site.
>
> The bottom line is that the kernel i want to use have to be able to
> handle both the 64bit part and the multiple cores part.
>
> If i install the x86 (to be on the safe side), is it then polssible to
> upgrade the kernel to do that or do i have to start out with AMD64 to
> get 64bit support? Does AMD64 allso have multiple cores support?
>
> Regards
x86-64, AMD64 and EM64T are all the same architecture. Intel thought
that "everyone" would naturally move to IA-64 (Itanium) when IA-32 ran
out of steam. The AMD64 arch kicked a big whole in the Itanium planning,
cheaper, pretty fast and runs all the old software much better than IA-64.
IA stands for Intel Architecture and Intel thought that the 32 bit world
would be a lot different than the 64 bit world. I have found and seen that
most people go for the cheapest and the Itanium chip is and has been big
and expensive chip to produce relative to the Xeon x86 based and Opteron
type chips. IA-64 is now relegated to high end servers and Intel markets
it at Power, Sparc and mainframe type applications/replacements.
When it comes to multi-core pretty much all the newer chips will be that
way. Intel is working on an 80 core chip in its' labs for consumer type
computers. In "the old days", servers had more than one socket or cpu and
you had to make sure that your kernel was SMP or symetric multi-
processing to get the full power of your system. Now with "everyone"
getting multi-core systems, smp is the standard whether you have/do
AMD64 or i386 distro's. Upgrading a kernel/system is possible but it
is very complicated and tedious. Not only do you have to change the
kernel but all the drivers and all the software. It is MUCH easier to
start out with the version you want to use in the beginning. Start with
i386 and then when the general consensus is that amd64 is pretty good
reformat and reinstall from scratch.
later.....
| |
| AJackson 2007-04-25, 7:13 pm |
| On Apr 24, 2:41 pm, zacar...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thank for all the answers, they seem to answer most of my questions,
> but a few still remains about the architecture.
>
> If i understood correctly i can choose either AMD64 or x86, they
> should both work, but i've allso heard about x86-64, even though i
> havent been able to find anything about it on debians site.
It works with either. AMD64 could have some minor issues. But is
usefull if you have a need for lots of memory. The other, x86, has
been around for longer, so it's issues have usally been worked out
(though I dont feel there is lots of them, but there are a few). So
what you should use depends on your demands.
The architecture name x86-64 is an old name for AMD64. So just forget
about it.
> The bottom line is that the kernel i want to use have to be able to
> handle both the 64bit part and the multiple cores part.
The multiple CPU part (which multiple core is), is handled by all
default kernels for both AMD64 and x86. Not an issue.
The 64 bit part is only realy needed if you need a large address space
for primary memory (RAM and virtual). Like large databases or large
images/video editing.
> If i install the x86 (to be on the safe side), is it then polssible to
> upgrade the kernel to do that or do i have to start out with AMD64 to
> get 64bit support? Does AMD64 allso have multiple cores support?
I *think* there is a kernel package that run 32-bit user land
programs, but the kernel is running in 64-bit mode. If so, this is
also a good thing (tm). You have to check this yourself, but that is
easy to do. Install and look if there is a package that is named
linux*-amd64 or linux-emt64 or something.
*searching*
$ aptitude search linux-image
*found*
Ok, there is! Package name is linux-image-amd64
Notice that this package only run ordinary 32-bit user land programs
(for good and bad, mostly good :D)
> Regards
Good luck.
| |
| zacariaz@gmail.com 2007-04-26, 1:12 pm |
| Tanks for everything!
You've all been a great help
Regards
| |
| ***** charles 2007-04-27, 7:12 pm |
| <zacariaz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177590490.209230.190110@c18g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Tanks for everything!
> You've all been a great help
>
> Regards
Let us know how it goes.
later......
| |
| ken scharf 2007-04-28, 1:12 pm |
| zacariaz@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, i've desided to install Debian on my laptop, however there are
> question i have been unable to get answers too.
>
> 1. Which processor architecture? the cpu im using is an "Intel®
> Centrino® Core™2 Duo T7200" and i know of course that the x86 will
> work, but what about the dual core and 64 bit thingy... Will it limit
> the cpu? should i use amd64 instead? I mean it is a intel cpu... At
> first the IA-64 seemed a logically choice as the former architecture
> was called ia-32, but there is, it seems, some confusion there.
>
> 2. The chipset im using is "Intel® 945PM Express". How do i know if it
> is possible to get compatible driver and stuff?
>
> 3. Which GUI does debian recoment? I seem to remember reading
> something about them not recomenting KDE even though i've allso read
> that it should be very good. Then there is gnome, and some others...
> The reason for this seemenly stupid question is that i want it to work
> as a whole and therefor i want to use whatever debian has been testet
> with... but maybe all that isnt an isue anymore, if thats the case,
> what GUI would you recoment?
>
> Well, that was it for now i think, thank you in advance...
>
>
> Regards
>
Intel's latest chips use the SAME instruction set as AMD for 64 bit.
IA64 is already obsolete!
I prefer KDE to Gnome, though done right, Gnome is ok. Ubuntu's
tweekings to Gnome are fine, I don't know about Debian though. I use
Uubuntu Gnome at work on an old 650mhz PIII and it keeps up. KDE is a
bit more of a cpu hog than Gnome so that's why the slower machine isn't
running KDE. On a dual core cpu, it don't matter!
(my home machine is a 4400+ dual core athlon64 and it runs KDE).
| |
| gOLdenHaWK3D 2007-04-28, 7:12 pm |
| > I use Uubuntu Gnome at work on an old 650mhz PIII and it keeps up.
How much RAM does your 650mhz pIII have? Gnome is quite a heavy
desktop system!
| |
| ken scharf 2007-04-29, 1:14 am |
| gOLdenHaWK3D wrote:
>
> How much RAM does your 650mhz pIII have? Gnome is quite a heavy
> desktop system!
>
512MB ram, 40gb HD, 1gb swap partition. doesn't seem to be swap happy
though.
| |
| ken scharf 2007-04-29, 1:14 am |
| Neil Ellwood wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:41:08 -0700, zacariaz wrote:
>
> Other distros such as mandriva use x86_64 which seems to be the equivalent
> to Debians amd64.
>
> That I don't really know but would suspect that it does.
>
>
>
>
x86_64 and AMD64 are the same thing. x86_64 is an older name (that
Intel would prefer we use, but I say give credit where it's due).
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