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Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64
|
|
|
| Hello,
I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfar...t/computers.txt for
my secondary computer specifications). It runs Debian r4 and acts a
workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.
I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.
In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
Debian. Who knows after that.
Thank you in advance. 
--
"Maybe it's like an ant hive..." "Bees man, bees have hives." "You know
what I mean. It's like one female that runs the whole show." "Yes, the
queen." "Yeah the mamma. She is bad*ss, man. I mean big." "These things
ain't ants estupido." "I know that." --ALIENS movie
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
| AJackson 2007-05-29, 1:12 pm |
| On May 26, 12:37 am, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
> Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
> RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfar...omputers.txtfor
> my secondary computer specifications).
Sounds like a nice machine.
> It runs Debian r4 and acts a
> workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
> newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
> download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
> locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.
I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
3.2 r4)
> I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
> I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
> Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
> to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
> not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
> both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.
Just try it. There is no big deal to select kernelpackage when you
install, and later kernel when you boot. You could have both packages
installed at the same time.
Switch to 64 bit just for it's own sake is only realy any advantage
when you have programs that use lots of memory, or you have a machine
with lots of RAM (like 2 GB RAM). Then there is advantages with 64-
bit kernels. The 64-bit programs has a tendency to also need more RAM
then same version in 32-bit.
If you want to run 64 bit kernel and 32 bit application i should be
that simple. But if you want to run all software, kernel and
applications, in 64-bit mode, the easy way is to reinstall Debian.
> In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
> Debian. Who knows after that.
It will be at least quad core CPU:s then :-)
> Thank you in advance.
Good luck
| |
|
| On 5/29/2007 9:25 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
> Sounds like a nice machine.
Yeah, but it's not that fast. It's good for non-gaming and anything not
requiring heavy usage. ;)
>
> I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
> 3.2 r4)
Oops, my text/console login screens doesn't say that anymore. I have
Lenny/Sid now. I assume that is Etch. All these codenames can be confusing!
>
> Just try it. There is no big deal to select kernelpackage when you
> install, and later kernel when you boot. You could have both packages
> installed at the same time.
Yeah, I was aware of having multiple Kernels. I was asking to see if it
was worth the time and effort. I haven't installed it or tried it yet
due to lack of free time (notice I am late in replying to this!).
> Switch to 64 bit just for it's own sake is only realy any advantage
> when you have programs that use lots of memory, or you have a machine
> with lots of RAM (like 2 GB RAM). Then there is advantages with 64-
Ah, I guess I won't bother at this time with this old 64-bit machine
that only has 1 GB of RAM. I will save it for the next hardware (2 GB of
RAM -- might be able to add more from the 754 box since they use the
same DRAM type).
> bit kernels. The 64-bit programs has a tendency to also need more RAM
> then same version in 32-bit.
> If you want to run 64 bit kernel and 32 bit application i should be
> that simple. But if you want to run all software, kernel and
> applications, in 64-bit mode, the easy way is to reinstall Debian.
Do all 32-bit programs exist in 64-bit or will I have to compile them
myself? What I like about Debian is the premade compiled packages via
apt-get. For example, I don't see a 64-bit Pan, Tin, BitchX, KDE,
Gaim/Pidgeon, Lopster, aMule, Mplayer, Xine, IceApe (SeaMonkey), VMware
v5.5.4, XMMS, etc.
>
> It will be at least quad core CPU:s then :-)
That will be my gaming box first. [grin]
--
"What, like I had to live with all those ants? Do you know what I did to
those ants? HoooHooo! No more ants!" --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
| Anton Ertl 2007-06-01, 7:12 am |
| Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> writes:
>On 5/29/2007 9:25 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
>Oops, my text/console login screens doesn't say that anymore. I have
>Lenny/Sid now. I assume that is Etch. All these codenames can be confusing!
Sarge, Etch, Lenny, and Sid are all different tracks. Currently these
correspond to:
oldstable=Sarge
stable=Etch
testing=Lenny
unstable=Sid (Sid is always unstable)
>Do all 32-bit programs exist in 64-bit or will I have to compile them
>myself?
Among free software programs, nearly all have 64-bit ports.
> What I like about Debian is the premade compiled packages via
>apt-get. For example, I don't see a 64-bit Pan, Tin, BitchX, KDE,
>Gaim/Pidgeon, Lopster, aMule, Mplayer, Xine, IceApe (SeaMonkey), VMware
>v5.5.4, XMMS, etc.
Of these programs I have only installed xine and xmms, and both of
them are 64-bit executables.
You can check particular packages by looking at the page of the
package. E.g., for XMMS in unstable:
<http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/xmms.html>.
Followups set to alt.os.linux.debian.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
| |
|
|
| AJackson 2007-06-03, 1:13 am |
| On Jun 1, 2:32 pm, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 5/31/2007 11:44 PM PT, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Ah thanks. I wonder if my sources.list are correct. Here is what I have
> right now:
Looks ok, but you should remove/comment all lines that contrains
untesting. If you are not comfortable, you should consider if you
need to run testing. And you should not us unstable.
Hope you do have spaces after deb and deb-src and before testing,
stable and untesting.
> $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
> debhttp://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ testing main
> deb-srchttp://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ testing main
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
Those for lines could be on same server.
deb http://ftp.use.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main
> non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main
> non-free contrib
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/proposed-updates main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/proposed-updates main non-free contrib
You should not use proposed-updates if you not comfortable with
Debian. As you shouldn't use testing.
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
etch and stable is same, so you dont need them both. I would
recommend using etch instead of stable tough. Then you don't get next
stable without you controlling when, when that comes.
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/unstable main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/unstable main non-free contrib
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
For your convenience you should put debian version together. So stick
stable to one group, testing to one and other repositories together.
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
>
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main non-free
> contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main
> non-free contrib
No need for this.
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
You already have this...
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
And this
> debhttp://security.debian.org/stable/updates main contrib non-free
> debhttp://security.debian.org/etch/updates main contrib non-free
> debhttp://security.debian.org/testing/updates main contrib non-free
You prob. only need stable (or etch), as testing should get next
security from unstable (sid)
> debhttp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/debian/testing main
> deb-srchttp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/debian/testing main
You already have testing.
> # VLC fromhttp://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-debian.html
> debhttp://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debiansid main
> debhttp://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debiansarge main
> deb-srchttp://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debiansid main
This is in debian-multimedia.org
> # dvd::rip fromhttp://hpisi.nerim.net/
> debhttp://www.debian-multimedia.orgtesting main
> debhttp://www.debian-multimedia.orgstable main
> debhttp://www.debian-multimedia.orgsid main
You should only use the one that is your main distribution. Not all.
So you should prob. only use etch and possible testing.
>
>
> Good.
>
>
VMware is commercial software, and has nothing to do with Debians
ordinary repository. They could have support though. Like a
repository of there own. All other should be in Debian repository.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Ah cool. Nice tip. I assume 64-bit ports get updated often as 32-bit?
Yes, as there are from Debian. Like all architectures that is
supported.
You should look at xmms2, as xmms is not supported any longer. xmms2
is a client/server architecture which is nice if you want to controll
your xmms from other devices, like mobile phone etc.
Good luck
| |
|
| On 6/2/2007 5:28 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
> Looks ok, but you should remove/comment all lines that contrains
> untesting. If you are not comfortable, you should consider if you
> need to run testing. And you should not us unstable.
Is unstable same as experimental or different? I used my friend's
sources.list and other sources to make my own. I definitely don't want
to to run stable since that is outdated and rarely gets updates.
> Hope you do have spaces after deb and deb-src and before testing,
> stable and untesting.
Weird. I wonder why my posts didn't format correctly. I used copy and
paste. So yeah, there are spaces between deb/deb-src and the URLs.
>
>
> Those for lines could be on same server.
> deb http://ftp.use.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
>
>
> You should not use proposed-updates if you not comfortable with
> Debian. As you shouldn't use testing.
>
>
> etch and stable is same, so you dont need them both. I would
> recommend using etch instead of stable tough. Then you don't get next
> stable without you controlling when, when that comes.
>
>
>
> For your convenience you should put debian version together. So stick
> stable to one group, testing to one and other repositories together.
>
>
> No need for this.
>
>
> You already have this...
>
>
> And this
>
>
> You prob. only need stable (or etch), as testing should get next
> security from unstable (sid)
>
>
> You already have testing.
>
>
> This is in debian-multimedia.org
>
>
> You should only use the one that is your main distribution. Not all.
> So you should prob. only use etch and possible testing.
I was told that having mixxed ones are fine. Am I being told wrong?
>
> VMware is commercial software, and has nothing to do with Debians
> ordinary repository. They could have support though. Like a
> repository of there own. All other should be in Debian repository.
OK.
>
>
> Yes, as there are from Debian. Like all architectures that is
> supported.
> You should look at xmms2, as xmms is not supported any longer. xmms2
> is a client/server architecture which is nice if you want to controll
> your xmms from other devices, like mobile phone etc.
I still use old Winamp v2.94(?) in Windows. I don't need the fancy bells
and whistles like XMMS2's external controllers. In fact, I disable the
visualization, audio enhancement plugins, etc. I am just a simple guy. ;)
--
"I'm not a worker ant. I'm like a queen. Or maybe a king. But you never
hear of king ants." --Sean Bentley
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
| Darren Salt 2007-06-03, 1:13 pm |
| I demand that Ant may or may not have written...
> On 6/2/2007 5:28 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Is unstable same as experimental or different?
Very different. You don't normally want packages from experimental - it's
usually best to wait for them to be uploaded to unstable. Also, experimental
is incomplete and requires packages from unstable, and experimental packages
may well be broken on all but their maintainers' computers.
> I used my friend's sources.list and other sources to make my own. I
> definitely don't want to to run stable since that is outdated and rarely
> gets updates.
In that case, you probably want both testing and unstable in your
sources.list. Something like the following in /etc/apt/preferences may also
be helpful (*don't* put the comment lines in):
# for www.debian-multimedia.org
Package: *
Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages, a=testing
Pin-Priority: 350
Package: *
Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
Pin-Priority: 340
# for Debian testing
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian, a=testing
Pin-Priority: 450
# for Debian experimental
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian, a=experimental
Pin-Priority: 300
# for Debian unstable; catch-all
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 400
Packages will, by default, come from testing; and you should also have
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
in your sources.list (remove contrib and/or non-free if you don't have them
in your main testing entry).
[snip]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I was told that having mixed ones are fine. Am I being told wrong?
No, but if you weren't told about apt pinning, you weren't told enough...
[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Lobby friends, family, business, government. WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET.
An artist should be fit for the best society and kept out of it.
| |
| AJackson 2007-06-03, 1:13 pm |
| On Jun 3, 1:21 pm, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 6/2/2007 5:28 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
>
>
> Is unstable same as experimental or different? I used my friend's
> sources.list and other sources to make my own. I definitely don't want
> to to run stable since that is outdated and rarely gets updates.
Nope, they are different. If they where, they should have had the same
names.
>
> I was told that having mixxed ones are fine. Am I being told wrong?
It depends. Are you willing to manually fix bugs and errors in
packages becouse some error in package, which make them hard to fix
and could make your system useless? Then stay with unstable.
If you want a easy system to maintain and your main use of the system
is others than configure it, use stable.
If you have a desktop machine which you want to have newer software
and can resolve some brakage package. Then testing is the
distribution for you.
I would recommend new user to start with stable. When they get used
and start to become comfortable with Debian and Linux. THEN they
could start looking into testing. That mixup in your sources.list is
not good for a beginner. I guess that it is better suited for your
friends use, as they prob are more used to Debian than you are.
There are people who install software and stuff on others computers
without asking, which I would never do. So if I would have help you
with your computer, you wouldn't get anything else than Stable. Later
I might shown you testing. But never unstable direct.
>
> OK.
You could look into Qemu, XEN or servez(sp?). They do almost the same
as VMware (depending on what you want, they could be better solution
for you).
>
> I still use old Winamp v2.94(?) in Windows. I don't need the fancy bells
> and whistles like XMMS2's external controllers. In fact, I disable the
> visualization, audio enhancement plugins, etc. I am just a simple guy. ;)
It is different front ends to xmms2, so you could chose one that looks
like xmms, or controlled by command lines (and by that through a
webbpage or Jabber (XMPP)). And xmmp will be removed, as there is no
support upstreams (that is outside Debian where the program comes
from).
Good luck
| |
|
| On 6/3/2007 7:12 AM PT, Darren Salt wrote:
> I demand that Ant may or may not have written...
>
>
>
> Very different. You don't normally want packages from experimental - it's
> usually best to wait for them to be uploaded to unstable. Also, experimental
> is incomplete and requires packages from unstable, and experimental packages
> may well be broken on all but their maintainers' computers.
>
>
> In that case, you probably want both testing and unstable in your
> sources.list. Something like the following in /etc/apt/preferences may also
> be helpful (*don't* put the comment lines in):
>
> # for www.debian-multimedia.org
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages, a=testing
> Pin-Priority: 350
>
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
> Pin-Priority: 340
>
> # for Debian testing
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian, a=testing
> Pin-Priority: 450
>
> # for Debian experimental
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian, a=experimental
> Pin-Priority: 300
>
> # for Debian unstable; catch-all
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian
> Pin-Priority: 400
>
> Packages will, by default, come from testing; and you should also have
> deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
> in your sources.list (remove contrib and/or non-free if you don't have them
> in your main testing entry).
>
> [snip]
>
>
> No, but if you weren't told about apt pinning, you weren't told enough...
>
> [snip]
Ah, pinning isnews to me then. Thanks. I will look at this later.
--
"Left right left right we're army ants. We swarm we fight. We have no
home. We roam. We race. You're lucky if we miss your place." --Douglas
Florian (The Army Ants Poem)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
|
| On 6/3/2007 10:54 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
> It depends. Are you willing to manually fix bugs and errors in
> packages becouse some error in package, which make them hard to fix
> and could make your system useless? Then stay with unstable.
>
> If you want a easy system to maintain and your main use of the system
> is others than configure it, use stable.
The problem with stable, lots of programs are so outdated. It is not a
server. ;)
> If you have a desktop machine which you want to have newer software
> and can resolve some brakage package. Then testing is the
> distribution for you.
This is what I have. A desktop/workstation.
> I would recommend new user to start with stable. When they get used
> and start to become comfortable with Debian and Linux. THEN they
> could start looking into testing. That mixup in your sources.list is
> not good for a beginner. I guess that it is better suited for your
> friends use, as they prob are more used to Debian than you are.
I am not really a newbie. I know my way around in Linux. I know how to
compile with ./configure; make; make install, edit files (even as
root/su), etc. I am not an expert in tweaking every little things.
Debian is just basically my desktop/workstation.
> There are people who install software and stuff on others computers
> without asking, which I would never do. So if I would have help you
> with your computer, you wouldn't get anything else than Stable. Later
> I might shown you testing. But never unstable direct.
>
>
> You could look into Qemu, XEN or servez(sp?). They do almost the same
> as VMware (depending on what you want, they could be better solution
> for you).
How good are they compared to VMware? I only use VMware if I can't
access to a Windows machine. Yes, I do use its multimedia stuff like
Media Players and sometimes videos (streaming ones if failed in Linux).
Even IE6.0 SP1. ;)
>
> It is different front ends to xmms2, so you could chose one that looks
> like xmms, or controlled by command lines (and by that through a
> webbpage or Jabber (XMPP)). And xmmp will be removed, as there is no
> support upstreams (that is outside Debian where the program comes
> from).
Hmm. Dunno. XMMS seems fine forme for basic playing (MP3s and OGGs
only). Unless there are something in XMMS2 that are important to me and
need to upgrade...
--
"Ants can lift up to 50 times their own weight. And your monitor is
missing. Time to bring out the bugspray." --BBspot's Geek Horoscopes
(2/28/2003)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
|
| On 6/3/2007 7:12 AM PT, Darren Salt wrote:
>
> In that case, you probably want both testing and unstable in your
> sources.list. Something like the following in /etc/apt/preferences may also
> be helpful (*don't* put the comment lines in):
>
> # for www.debian-multimedia.org
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages, a=testing
> Pin-Priority: 350
>
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
> Pin-Priority: 340
>
> # for Debian testing
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian, a=testing
> Pin-Priority: 450
>
> # for Debian experimental
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian, a=experimental
> Pin-Priority: 300
>
> # for Debian unstable; catch-all
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian
> Pin-Priority: 400
>
> Packages will, by default, come from testing; and you should also have
> deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
> in your sources.list (remove contrib and/or non-free if you don't have them
> in your main testing entry).
Is this /etc/apt/apt.conf (it exists) or /etc/apt/preferences file which
doesn't exists?
--
"Ants. There's a size for every picnic, a colour for every occasion, and
a bite to let you know that they are there. Apart from the bite, that
could describe a Basenji pretty well." --Len Reddie
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
| Darren Salt 2007-06-03, 7:13 pm |
| I demand that Ant may or may not have written...
> On 3/6/2007 7:12 AM PT, Darren Salt wrote:
[snip][vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Ah, pinning is news to me then. Thanks. I will look at this later.
BTW, "man apt_preferences".
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Output less CO2 => avoid boiling weather. TIME IS RUNNING OUT *FAST*.
You will be surprised by a loud noise.
| |
| AJackson 2007-06-05, 7:15 pm |
| On Jun 3, 9:31 pm, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 6/3/2007 10:54 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
You didn't answer this question. Are you? If not, get rid of those
lines with unstable or sid in them from your /etc/apt/sources.list.
Else you can run mixed repositories, as you don't care about possible
disturbences on your machine.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> The problem with stable, lots of programs are so outdated. It is not a
> server. ;)
No, that is wrong. It was true, before Etch was released. But you are
right about it's not on the bleeding edge. But with that, you don't
get stable upgrades etc. As long as you know this, I'm cool with your
selection.
>
> This is what I have. A desktop/workstation.
Then get rid of all lines exept them with lenny or testing in them.
>
> I am not really a newbie. I know my way around in Linux. I know how to
> compile with ./configure; make; make install, edit files (even as
> root/su), etc. I am not an expert in tweaking every little things.
> Debian is just basically my desktop/workstation.
To be able to compile from source doesn't make you a experience Debian
user. Do you know how to fix a broken apt database? Do you know where
it is? If not, you are not a experience Debian user. You could be,
but then you may need to reinstall your machine once in a while to fix
broken package. They ARE called testing and unstable for a reason.
But testing is usally as stabel as many other so called "stable"
distributions.
>
> How good are they compared to VMware? I only use VMware if I can't
> access to a Windows machine. Yes, I do use its multimedia stuff like
> Media Players and sometimes videos (streaming ones if failed in Linux).
> Even IE6.0 SP1. ;)
It depends on what you mean by "good". If you have to try them out,
or google to find which are what you need.
There are solutions to run MS IE from Linux without needing to reboot
into MS Windows. Google (as I never found any reason to do that, boot
into MS Windows or run MS IE, I never been interested in that
solution)
>
> Hmm. Dunno. XMMS seems fine forme for basic playing (MP3s and OGGs
> only). Unless there are something in XMMS2 that are important to me and
> need to upgrade...
Like no upstream support and that it might get dropped from Debian
testing? Like it is a better and more flexible sollution?
But then again, it's your computer...
Good luck
| |
|
| AJackson <anders.jackson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 9:31 pm, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> You didn't answer this question. Are you? If not, get rid of those
> lines with unstable or sid in them from your /etc/apt/sources.list.
> Else you can run mixed repositories, as you don't care about possible
> disturbences on your machine.
Oops, missed it. I haven't actually ran into that problem like
unbootable Debian. I think the worse situation I ever had was X refusing
to start even after recompiling NVIDIA's drivers. Second worse scenario
I can recall is KDE having broken parts but fixed the next day with an
updated package.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> No, that is wrong. It was true, before Etch was released. But you are
> right about it's not on the bleeding edge. But with that, you don't
> get stable upgrades etc. As long as you know this, I'm cool with your
> selection.
Oh this is now changed? Interesting. Do you know how often stable gets
updates? Daily? So do emergency fixes get released within a day?
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Then get rid of all lines exept them with lenny or testing in them.
OK.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> To be able to compile from source doesn't make you a experience Debian
> user. Do you know how to fix a broken apt database? Do you know where
> it is? If not, you are not a experience Debian user. You could be,
> but then you may need to reinstall your machine once in a while to fix
> broken package. They ARE called testing and unstable for a reason.
> But testing is usally as stabel as many other so called "stable"
> distributions.
Usually, if I Google online, e-mail developers, post in forums/mailing
lists/newsgroups, ask friends, etc. Most issues get resolved by people
and help. The only time I had to reinstall was a fried motherboard and
dead hard drive from a fried power supply unit (PSU).  At least I had
data backups (not OS) in the other drive that was unharmed.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> It depends on what you mean by "good". If you have to try them out,
> or google to find which are what you need.
> There are solutions to run MS IE from Linux without needing to reboot
> into MS Windows. Google (as I never found any reason to do that, boot
> into MS Windows or run MS IE, I never been interested in that
> solution)
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Like no upstream support and that it might get dropped from Debian
> testing? Like it is a better and more flexible sollution?
Then, I will find a replacement. However, I still see XMMS get
updated once in a while. Still the same major version.
| |
| John Hasler 2007-06-06, 1:14 am |
| Ant writes:
> Oh this is now changed? Interesting. Do you know how often stable gets
> updates? Daily? So do emergency fixes get released within a day?
Stable gets security fixes as it always has. There is backports.org,
though.
--
John Hasler
| |
| AJackson 2007-06-06, 1:14 am |
| On Jun 6, 2:27 am, ANT...@zimage.com (Ant) wrote:
> AJackson <anders.jack...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Oops, missed it. I haven't actually ran into that problem like
> unbootable Debian. I think the worse situation I ever had was X refusing
> to start even after recompiling NVIDIA's drivers. Second worse scenario
> I can recall is KDE having broken parts but fixed the next day with an
> updated package.
Yes, this happend to me too. Which is OK an to be expected, as it it
testing (or unstable).
If a beginner had ended in that, it wouldn't been a pretty sight.
That is what I tries to say.
>
>
> Oh this is now changed? Interesting. Do you know how often stable gets
> updates? Daily? So do emergency fixes get released within a day?
No, it wrks as it always have. But how much bleeding edge do you
want?
If you want that, go for testing. But if you want stable computer with
no big problems with packages that changes and once in a while make
some software to behave strange (and even X not uaable), dont use
testing.
But as long as you have security as one repository (as you should) you
get updates as fast as testing and sid (sometimes faster).
| |
| John Hasler 2007-06-06, 1:14 am |
| AJackson writes:
> But as long as you have security as one repository (as you should) you
> get updates as fast as testing and sid (sometimes faster).
Often faster than Sid. The security team supports Stable and Testing (in
that order) by backporting fixes. Sid has to wait for the maintainer to
upload upstream's new, fixed version.
--
John Hasler
| |
|
| On 6/5/2007 6:54 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes, this happend to me too. Which is OK an to be expected, as it it
> testing (or unstable).
> If a beginner had ended in that, it wouldn't been a pretty sight.
> That is what I tries to say.
And always a good experience in case they happen again! I remember when
Ubuntu had the same problem and made a lot of people's systems broken
because of some faulty X upgrade or something. On purpose, I made my
Linux boxes NOT to boot up in GUI/X. I wanted to boot up to console/text
mode with login screens (old fashion/school way). I like this way. I did
this too back in Windows 3.x, 95, and 98 days. I will keep that way
until they drop the text mode (like never for Linux?). =)
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> No, it wrks as it always have. But how much bleeding edge do you
> want?
> If you want that, go for testing. But if you want stable computer with
> no big problems with packages that changes and once in a while make
> some software to behave strange (and even X not uaable), dont use
> testing.
Well, not bleeding as in daily buggy builds from developers. I do want
bleeding edge as in new stable releases like Pidgeon/GAIM, new Web
browser releases (e.g., Firefox released 2.0.0.4 recently), security
fixes, etc. I never get the newest Kernel (too risky) so I am usually a
few versions behind.
> But as long as you have security as one repository (as you should) you
> get updates as fast as testing and sid (sometimes faster).
OK.
--
"I got worms! That's what we're going to call it. We're going to
specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant farms. What's the
matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd Christmas (Dumb and
Dumber movie)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
| |
| Rodney 2007-06-06, 1:14 pm |
| [edit]
>
>
> Oh this is now changed? Interesting. Do you know how often stable gets
> updates? Daily? So do emergency fixes get released within a day?
>
Not changed, previously 'stable' was sarge, after the release of etch it
became the 'stable' release. So, programs are as new as the date etch was
'frozen' for release.
Stable gets security updates when they are needed. Very quickly, sometimes
in less than a day from discovery of vulnerability. It is amazing, how
much effort Debian Developers put into keeping 'stable', safe and stable.
Note: after release, only security updates, no updated 'kool', 'features'.
To my mind, a program is not 'outdated' if it still does the job I need
done with it. As I have mentioned elsewhere in this topic and as John
Hasler mentioned again in this thread, there are backports and for
something like Firefox or Thunderbird you can always use the tar.gz's from
Mozilla if you don't like waiting for backport to be compiled.
Rodney
| |
| AJackson 2007-06-07, 7:14 pm |
| On Jun 6, 5:45 am, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> And always a good experience in case they happen again! I remember when
> Ubuntu had the same problem and made a lot of people's systems broken
> because of some faulty X upgrade or something. On purpose, I made my
> Linux boxes NOT to boot up in GUI/X. I wanted to boot up to console/text
> mode with login screens (old fashion/school way). I like this way. I did
> this too back in Windows 3.x, 95, and 98 days. I will keep that way
> until they drop the text mode (like never for Linux?). =)
Strange priorities you have. But it is yours to have as you like.
(that breakage we hade in Debian/testing too, as Ubuntu is from Debian
testing)
>
> Well, not bleeding as in daily buggy builds from developers. I do want
> bleeding edge as in new stable releases like Pidgeon/GAIM, new Web
> browser releases (e.g., Firefox released 2.0.0.4 recently), security
> fixes, etc. I never get the newest Kernel (too risky) so I am usually a
> few versions behind.
Then testing is what you want (why now, I don't know :D)
As many has written, stay with one release of stable(which for now is
alias for etch), testing(which for now is alias lenny) or
unstable(which is always alias for sid). Don't mix unless you know
what pinning is, and even then try to not mix releases.
For now you should prob. stay with etch (stable). At least a moment
more, as testing tends to break after a new stable is released. There
are usally a couple of big breakages during a testing period before it
becomes the new stable. And during freeze of testing to hunt down
bugs before becomming new stable, testing tends to stop beeing
upgraded. When new stable released, all developers put in all there
upgrades in new testing when it unfreezes, with breakages following.
Good luck
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