Linux Debian support - Pan version

Author

Pan version

Edmund

2007-09-12, 7:12 pm

Debian Etch Gnome

Hi pan users,

I have seen Pan 0.119 and I don't like it.
Many options are missing and I wonder if I could
install another version. ( why not? )
Now looking at the website:
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/
I see all version numbers and release dates which make
no sense to me at all.
There is version 0.14.2.91 stable!?
and version 0.129 Beta
So that makes the higher number the oldest I would say.
However looking at the older releases
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/releases/
there is
0.10.0.90 from 2004
0.101 from 2006
0.11.0.90 from 2004 again??
0.111 from 2006
0.129 from 2007
0.13.2 from 2004

You get the picture.
Can someone explain to me what is wrong with me
or these people?
Which version should I try? I do want to be able to use
it off-line among other things.
Or should I go for another newsreader?
BTW I don't like Knode 0.10.4 either, it
is not very handy to find my own postings and
replies back. I cannot write something when Knode
cannot connect to my news provider and it start
to download messages again which should be in cache!
I am open for suggestions..

Edmund

Noozer

2007-09-12, 7:12 pm

> 0.10.0.90 from 2004
> 0.101 from 2006
> 0.11.0.90 from 2004 again??
> 0.111 from 2006
> 0.129 from 2007
> 0.13.2 from 2004

Uhm.. You DO know how to count, don't you?

0.10.0.90 is less than 0.11.0.90, which is less than 0.13.2, which is less
than 0.101, which is less than 0.111, which is less than 0.129.

Dan C

2007-09-13, 1:12 am

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:16:01 +0000, Edmund wrote:

> There is version 0.14.2.91 stable!?

Yes. This is the only decent version there is. Use this one.

> and version 0.129 Beta

Yes, and it sucks.

> So that makes the higher number the oldest I would say.

Umm, no. The higher number is the newest. Think of it this way...
Version (one hundred twenty nine) is newer than version (fourteen point
something). See?

> Can someone explain to me what is wrong with me
> or these people?

See above.

> Which version should I try?

See above.

--
"Bother!" said Pooh, as Christopher Robin pleaded to be spanked again.

Mumia W.

2007-09-13, 1:12 am

On 09/12/2007 04:16 PM, Edmund wrote:
> Debian Etch Gnome
>
> Hi pan users,
>
> I have seen Pan 0.119 and I don't like it.
> Many options are missing and I wonder if I could
> install another version. [...]

It looks like you've figured out that Pan's version numbering is nuts :-)

Try 0.14.2, and if that doesn't suit you try 0.13.2. If neither one
suits you, try Thunderbird <http://www.mozilla.com/>. Thunderbird is a
fairly powerful newsreader--not as powerful and flexible as Pan used to
be, but it's far more stable and well-maintained.

Mark South

2007-09-13, 7:11 am

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:56:02 -0500, Mumia W. wrote:

> Thunderbird is a fairly powerful newsreader

Completely agreed.

Provided, of course, that "fairly powerful" is understood to be read as
"annoyingly useless".

There is no newsreader which is a good email client, and no email client
which makes a good newsreader.

Although if you have to use an email client as a newsreader, Sylpheed will
make you slightly less eager to slash your own wrists and exsanguinate in
front of your keyboard while reading alt.os.linux.mandriva.

Slightly.

Edmund

2007-09-13, 1:12 pm

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:16:01 +0000, Edmund wrote:

> Debian Etch Gnome
>
> Hi pan users,

Thanks for replies guys, 0.14.2.91 looks
better, still not perfect but a lot better.

Edmund

>

Rodney

2007-09-15, 7:14 am

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:23:26 +0200, Edmund wrote:

> Thanks for replies guys, 0.14.2.91 looks better, still not perfect but a
> lot better.
>

From the Pan FAQ:
3.1. Where do I send feature requests?
Mail it to the pan-users mailing list, where other users can discuss
your request. Features are typically discussed there for some
consensus before being put into Pan.

Felix Karpfen

2007-09-15, 7:11 pm

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:56:30 -0500, Dan C wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:16:01 +0000, Edmund wrote:
>
>
> Yes. This is the only decent version there is. Use this one.
>

After upgrading to Debian Etch, I too was saddened to lose some of the
features present in the version of Pan that was included in Debian Sarge
(pan 0.12.90).

However, given my lack of computer expertise (and my slow internet
connection), I am reluctant to mix official Debian-compiled packages
with packages that I have (attempted to) compile myself.

Is there a remedy - other than wait 2 years for the next stable Debian
release and hope that some of Pan's currently deleted features get
reinstated?

Felix Karpfen

--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)

SINNER

2007-09-15, 7:11 pm

* Felix Karpfen wrote in alt.os.linux.debian:
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:56:30 -0500, Dan C wrote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]

[vbcol=seagreen]
> After upgrading to Debian Etch, I too was saddened to lose some of the
> features present in the version of Pan that was included in Debian Sarge
> (pan 0.12.90).

you mean .129

> However, given my lack of computer expertise (and my slow internet
> connection), I am reluctant to mix official Debian-compiled packages
> with packages that I have (attempted to) compile myself.

There is surely a deb available of .14.X from the pan site.

> Is there a remedy - other than wait 2 years for the next stable Debian
> release and hope that some of Pan's currently deleted features get
> reinstated?

Above.

--
David
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/

We don't smoke and we don't chew, and we don't go with girls that do.
-- Walter Summers

Dan C

2007-09-16, 1:14 am

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:08:10 +0000, SINNER wrote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> you mean .129

No, he meant 0.12.90, as he said. That's apparently the (old) version of
Pan which came with (old) Debian Sarge.

[vbcol=seagreen]
> There is surely a deb available of .14.X from the pan site.

Yes, there should be, and appears to be here at this link:
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/

[vbcol=seagreen]
> Above.

Yup.

--
"Bother!" said Pooh, as Christopher Robin pleaded to be spanked again.

Rodney

2007-09-16, 1:13 pm

> After upgrading to Debian Etch, I too was saddened to lose some of the
> features present in the version of Pan that was included in Debian Sarge
> (pan 0.12.90).
>

Just before the release of Etch, the version of Pan in Sarge was
0.14.2.91-2 and the .deb is still there in the Sarge (oldstable)
repositories.

[edit]

> Is there a remedy - other than wait 2 years for the next stable Debian
> release and hope that some of Pan's currently deleted features get
> reinstated?
>

You might try removing the Etch version of Pan, adding the Sarge
repositories to your sources list and installing the version from Sarge.
If you don't already know how, this could be a good opportunity to learn
how to pin to an older version of a package so it won't be upgraded when
you upgrade the rest of your Etch install. man apt_preferences

Rodney

2007-09-16, 1:13 pm

[edit]
>
> Yup.

Once again you are a man of few words and I can't help but notice that
those few words usually cut right to the point. ;-)

This might be a good chance for Edmund to give back to the community for
the help and advice he has received by explaining to Felix what he had to
do to get 0.14.2.91-2 onto his Etch install.

Edmund

2007-09-16, 1:13 pm

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:17:55 +0000, Felix Karpfen wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:56:30 -0500, Dan C wrote:
>
>
> After upgrading to Debian Etch, I too was saddened to lose some of the
> features present in the version of Pan that was included in Debian Sarge
> (pan 0.12.90).
>
> However, given my lack of computer expertise (and my slow internet
> connection), I am reluctant to mix official Debian-compiled packages
> with packages that I have (attempted to) compile myself.
>
> Is there a remedy - other than wait 2 years for the next stable Debian
> release and hope that some of Pan's currently deleted features get
> reinstated?
>
> Felix Karpfen

Hi Felix,

Here is what I did.
I dowloaded the obove version from
(pan_0.14.2.91-2_i386.deb)
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/

Then I opened in the "Root Terminal"
( I have links named Root terminal"
"Gnome Terminal" and one "Terminal")
and went to the folder where I downloaded
the file.
I checked with "ls" to see
if I was in the right folder.
Now I typed :
"dpkg -i pan_0.14.2.91-2_i386.deb"

That's it.

Edmund

Felix Karpfen

2007-09-18, 1:12 am

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:09:20 +0200, Edmund wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:17:55 +0000, Felix Karpfen wrote:
>
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> Here is what I did.
> I dowloaded the obove version from
> (pan_0.14.2.91-2_i386.deb)
> http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/
>
> Then I opened in the "Root Terminal"
> Now I typed :
> "dpkg -i pan_0.14.2.91-2_i386.deb"
>
> That's it.
>
Glad to read that it exists as a '.deb' package!

I am not a total novice and can handle (many) 'dpkg' routines.

But I have an eerie suspicion that - as indicated in the first reply
from Rodney (Message-ID: <pan.2007.09.16.12.13.50.609247@127.0.0.1> ) -
that I would need to bite the bullet and learn to use 'pinning'.

And that is a different ball-game!

However, all is not lost. Some of the attractive features of 'Pan'
that appear to have gone AWOL in pan 0.119 are still present; but
finding them is a challenge -e.g.

- it is still possible to download all the message-headers and then,
offline, mark the bodies for download when online next time. The
routine is now called "Cache Article". That works - most of the time.

My thanks to all who were good enough to offer advice.

Felix Karpfen

--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)

Rodney

2007-09-18, 1:12 pm

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 03:24:52 +0000, Felix Karpfen wrote:
[edit]
>
> I am not a total novice and can handle (many) 'dpkg' routines.
>
> But I have an eerie suspicion that - as indicated in the first reply from
> Rodney (Message-ID: <pan.2007.09.16.12.13.50.609247@127.0.0.1> ) - that I
> would need to bite the bullet and learn to use 'pinning'.
>
> And that is a different ball-game!
>
> However, all is not lost. Some of the attractive features of 'Pan' that
> appear to have gone AWOL in pan 0.119 are still present; but finding them
> is a challenge -e.g.
>
> - it is still possible to download all the message-headers and then,
> offline, mark the bodies for download when online next time. The routine
> is now called "Cache Article". That works - most of the time.
>

Yes, among the things that one has to do when a new version of anything
comes out is read the changelog and see what has changed, next comes
examining the menu items and becoming familiar with what is now available.
It's possible one thing you might want to do is examine your cache size
and ensure that it is large enough for all the threads you want to read
offline, if you haven't already done that.

But Felix, pinning really isn't that hard. If you are a dpkg kind of
command line guy, I would expect you could handle it. You wouldn't have
had to pin the package to make it work, that would just have made system
upgrades easier.

Since you are now using Etch, and the Debian recommended package manager
(from the etch release notes)is now aptitude, you might want to take
some time to learn how to hold a package with aptitude.

But none of this matters if you are now satisfied with your system as it
is, thankfully we all have the freedom of lots of choices.

Felix Karpfen

2007-09-18, 7:12 pm

Felix Karpfen

2007-09-18, 7:12 pm

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:28:24 -0700, Rodney wrote:

> It's possible one thing you might want to do is examine your cache size
> and ensure that it is large enough for all the threads you want to read
> offline, if you haven't already done that.
>
> But Felix, pinning really isn't that hard. If you are a dpkg kind of
> command line guy, I would expect you could handle it. You wouldn't have
> had to pin the package to make it work, that would just have made system
> upgrades easier.
>
> Since you are now using Etch, and the Debian recommended package manager
> (from the etch release notes)is now aptitude, you might want to take
> some time to learn how to hold a package with aptitude.

Another louse-up (due to Pan's innovation **and** my rotten memory); my
last message got posted twice! In the previous version of Pan, sent
messages moved automatically to the "sent" folder; now they have to be
manually deleted from "Drafts"! I will have to work our another new
Pan routine :-(.

"Pinning" is on my "to-be-looked-at" list; regrettably, it has been
there for some time. But it is getting closer to the top.

"aptitude" has a discouraging number of options; I have tended to use
"Synaptic" (from a KDE desktop) to install packages on my DVDs and
"aptitude (from a root console) when installing a ".deb" package.

So far I have not broken anything!

Thank you for the follow-up

Felix

>
> But none of this matters if you are now satisfied with your system as it
> is, thankfully we all have the freedom of lots of choices.

--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)

Mumia W.

2007-09-19, 1:14 am

On 09/18/2007 04:32 PM, Felix Karpfen wrote:
> [...]
> "aptitude" has a discouraging number of options; I have tended to use
> "Synaptic" (from a KDE desktop) to install packages on my DVDs and
> "aptitude (from a root console) when installing a ".deb" package.
>
> So far I have not broken anything!
> [...]

Use only one install method. Using both synaptic and aptitude will
confuse you in the end. Your system will not be broken by mixing those,
but the confusion they create may deceive you into breaking your system
yourself.

If you like synaptic, I recommend you go entirely with synaptic.

Rodney

2007-09-19, 7:14 am

[edit]>
> Another louse-up (due to Pan's innovation **and** my rotten memory); my
> last message got posted twice! In the previous version of Pan, sent
> messages moved automatically to the "sent" folder; now they have to be
> manually deleted from "Drafts"! I will have to work our another new Pan
> routine :-(.
>

Yeah, as the years go by my memory isn't getting any better either.

> "Pinning" is on my "to-be-looked-at" list; regrettably, it has been there
> for some time. But it is getting closer to the top.
>

I concur with Mumia's advice, using one package manager well is often
preferable to using different ones with different characteristics,
unless and until one is familiar with the differences among them. If you
like the Synaptic GUI, it is possible to lock the version of a package.
Same as pinning, just saved in a different place than the apt preferences
file and handled by the GUI instead of manually editing.

A hint to get you started with pinning. In the case of the current
discussion it would take the form:
Package: pan
Pin: version 0.14.2.91-2
Pin-Priority: 1001

> So far I have not broken anything!

Good, that is the desired and expected behaviour. :-)

Felix Karpfen

2007-09-21, 1:12 am

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:25:17 -0700, Rodney wrote:

>
> I concur with Mumia's advice, using one package manager well is often
> preferable to using different ones with different characteristics,
> unless and until one is familiar with the differences among them. If you
> like the Synaptic GUI, it is possible to lock the version of a package.

Synaptic has served me well most of the time; even if I am (currently)
using only a fraction of what it offers. I switch to the "root
console" when confronted with a package that recommends "closing all
other applications"; I note (from KSysGuard) that there are about 120
processes running under KDE before I start adding to them with routines
called by me.

On the few occasions when a requested "install" would have broken
something, Debian was kind enough to stop and warn me of an impending
disaster. But I do not want to push my luck!

My thanks to all respondents who were good enough to offer advice and
suggestions.

Felix

--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)