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Home > Archive > Red Hat Topics > October 2004 > newbie - just upgraded to RH9 from RH7.3 - any heads ups? - please help
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newbie - just upgraded to RH9 from RH7.3 - any heads ups? - please help
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Getting back to Linux after a hiatus ...
I just upgraded to RH9 from RH7.3 for a better version of GCC.
The upgrade "appears" to be successful. Any heads ups WRT RH9?
What's the best version of GCC to use with RH9?
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| Markku Kolkka 2004-09-29, 5:45 pm |
| Roger wrote:
> I just upgraded to RH9 from RH7.3 for a better version of GCC.
> The upgrade "appears" to be successful. Any heads ups WRT RH9?
Yes, it's obsolete. Get Fedora Core 2 or Red Hat Enterprise Linux
instead.
--
Markku Kolkka
markku.kolkka@iki.fi
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Oh-no, not RHEL. Can't afford anything too pricey.
Is Red Hat trying to charge outrageously for
software that is largely contributed? If so, BOOOO!!!
"Markku Kolkka" <markku.kolkka@iki.fi> wrote in message news:cje8tb$g84$2@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> Roger wrote:
>
> Yes, it's obsolete. Get Fedora Core 2 or Red Hat Enterprise Linux
> instead.
>
> --
> Markku Kolkka
> markku.kolkka@iki.fi
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| Ivan Marsh 2004-09-29, 5:45 pm |
| On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:24:43 -0400, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
> Roger top-posted:
> No, Red Hat are not trying to charge outrageously for software that is
> largely contributed. What they charge for is support and maintenance.
> Some people find their support and maintenance to be worth what they
> charge. The rest can download the free source from Red Hat's web site
> and build it themselves.
Not to mention RedHat is one of the largest contributors to Linux and one
of the companies chiefly responsible for its success. They should be
allowed to keep themselves in business.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.
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Installed Fedora Core 2 earlier today. And, it does not
leave a good impression. The install was successful.
But, that's about it. It fails to boot. On boot,
it had problems with the following:
- my printer (HP LaserJet 5)
- initializing USB (saying something about USB controller and dependencies)
- hangs when starting "system logger"
- fails to go into graphical login mode
And, that's only what I remember. So, no thanks to Fedora Core 2.
RH9 gave no problems whatsoever. I don't care if
it's obsolete so long as it serves my needs.
"Markku Kolkka" <markku.kolkka@iki.fi> wrote in message news:cje8tb$g84$2@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
> Roger wrote:
>
> Yes, it's obsolete. Get Fedora Core 2 or Red Hat Enterprise Linux
> instead.
>
> --
> Markku Kolkka
> markku.kolkka@iki.fi
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If they're really only charging for support and maintenance,
why have different versions of the software? Why can't
everyone have access to just the software portion of RHEL?
"Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message news:10lloec9tk0bff2@corp.supernews.com...
> Roger top-posted:
> No, Red Hat are not trying to charge outrageously for software that is
> largely contributed. What they charge for is support and maintenance. Some
> people find their support and maintenance to be worth what they charge.
> The rest can download the free source from Red Hat's web site and build it
> themselves.
>
> --
> .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
> /V\ Registered Machine 241939.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
> ^^-^^ 12:20:00 up 6 days, 23:24, 3 users, load average: 4.18, 4.27, 4.25
>
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| On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:34:31 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:24:43 -0400, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>
> Not to mention RedHat is one of the largest contributors to Linux and one
> of the companies chiefly responsible for its success. They should be
> allowed to keep themselves in business.
RHEL is great for companies. It gives us someone to call (something
management likes) if something goes wrong. RHN is well worth the money,
great tool.
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| m.marien 2004-09-29, 8:45 pm |
|
"Roger" <roger@no_thanks.com> wrote in message
news:XQH6d.21596$QJ3.5231@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> If they're really only charging for support and maintenance,
> why have different versions of the software? Why can't
> everyone have access to just the software portion of RHEL?
>
I think you can. Just download the source from ftp.redhat.com and you can
compile your own RHEL. However, the support that RH sells is packaging it
with a manual, CDs, painless install procedure and hotline to call when you
need help.
Fedora on the other hand is a permanent BETA for RHEL, and as the web site
states there are new releases several times a year. IMHO I think it's great.
I get something new to play with every couple of months and when the bugs
are worked out corporate america gets a rock solid Linux - with support.
>
> "Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message
> news:10lloec9tk0bff2@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
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| Paul Lutus 2004-09-29, 8:45 pm |
| Roger wrote:
>
> Installed Fedora Core 2 earlier today. And, it does not
> leave a good impression. The install was successful.
> But, that's about it. It fails to boot. On boot,
> it had problems with the following:
Which is it: "it fails to boot" or "on boot ... "? They cannot both be true.
>
> - my printer (HP LaserJet 5)
> - initializing USB (saying something about USB controller and
> dependencies) - hangs when starting "system logger"
> - fails to go into graphical login mode
>
> And, that's only what I remember. So, no thanks to Fedora Core 2.
You don't say what resources your computer has. The FC2 documentation
clearly specifies system requirements. But you don't.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
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| m.marien 2004-09-29, 8:45 pm |
|
"Roger" <roger@no_thanks.com> wrote in message
news:BIH6d.21593$QJ3.16167@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Installed Fedora Core 2 earlier today. And, it does not
> leave a good impression. The install was successful.
> But, that's about it. It fails to boot. On boot,
> it had problems with the following:
>
> - my printer (HP LaserJet 5)
> - initializing USB (saying something about USB controller and
> dependencies)
> - hangs when starting "system logger"
> - fails to go into graphical login mode
>
> And, that's only what I remember. So, no thanks to Fedora Core 2.
>
> RH9 gave no problems whatsoever. I don't care if
> it's obsolete so long as it serves my needs.
>
I used FC1 for my servers. I have fewer problems if I stay back from the
leading edge. FC1 has been around for a while longer than FC2 so has more
bugs worked out. It also has an update source. There are no updates for
security problems with RH9. Not that Linux has any gaping holes, but if
others rely on it, it's better safe then sorry. It's also easier to apply a
patch rather then update to a new version if you do find a hole.
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Replace "on boot" with "when trying to boot".
It's the same hardware that both RH7.3 and RH9 works fine on.
Motherboard: Asus A7V133 rev 1.05.
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1600+
RAM: 512MB
NIC: 3Com 3C905C-TXM
Audio: Creative SoundBlaster Live! 5.1
CD-ROM Burner: LiteOn 52x24x52x
DVD Drive: Pioneer DVD-116
Display Adapter: Leadtek WinFast GeForce256 DDR 32MB AGP
Monitor: ViewSonic P815-4
Printer: HP LaserJet 5
Luckily, I installed FC2 on a spare HDD and didn't clobber RH9 with FC2.
"Paul Lutus" <nospam@nosite.zzz> wrote in message news:10lmnted46rtpf5@corp.supernews.com...
> Roger wrote:
>
>
> Which is it: "it fails to boot" or "on boot ... "? They cannot both be true.
>
>
> You don't say what resources your computer has. The FC2 documentation
> clearly specifies system requirements. But you don't.
>
> --
> Paul Lutus
> http://www.arachnoid.com
>
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| m.marien 2004-09-30, 7:46 am |
|
"Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:10lmtiak15ph1c3@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Right, and I, who do not want "something new to play with every couple of
> months" but something that just stays up and runs.
>
> My uptime below is so low because I deleted and added a partition to a
> hard drive, and I have not figured out the right way to get the partition
> table updated so I could format and use the new partition other than by
> rebooting. It looks like fdisk does this, but it does not. My old machine,
> running RHL 7.3 was up over 180 days and would still be up, but a power
> failure of 2.5 hours was longer than the UPSs on these machines could
> handle, so they did controlled shutdowns. This one has 68 minutes reserve,
> but is programmed to power down after an hour. I keep an eye on that, and
> will reduce it as the battery capacity diminishes with age.
>
>
> --
> .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
> /V\ Registered Machine 241939.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
> ^^-^^ 22:50:00 up 7 days, 9:54, 3 users, load average: 4.60, 4.35, 4.29
>
That's a fairly heavy load average. My K6II 400 system went way over 25 when
I first upgraded but when I added memory it went back down to zero. If I
understand it correctly, you have 4 threads waiting for processor time at
any given time ? Are you running some SETI's or do you just type really fast
?
21:45:43 up 54 days, 12:53, 1 user, load average: 0.04, 0.01, 0.00
This is FC1 on a file server, but everybody has gone home. Last shutdown was
to add the memory I think.
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| m.marien 2004-10-01, 5:45 pm |
|
"Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:10lo3c5gusobj9d@corp.supernews.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> m.marien wrote:
>
>
> I type really fast! ;-)
>
> Actually, I am running BOINC that has two setiathome and two
> climateprediction running. Luckily at nice level 19. When it really gets
> hairy is when I populate an IBM DB2 UDB V8.1.7 database which runs over a
> dozen server processes at once. Then the load average can exceed 10. But
> the BOINC stuff tends to get out of the way at nice 19.
>
> The BOINC stuff screws up the processor caches, though, and makes the
> database slow down a lot, even though, nominally, it gets all the
> processor time it wants. But it does not get cache hit ratio it needs, so
> the disk IO goes at about half speed or a little less. With BOINC turned
> off, I get about 12 Megabytes/second to the hard drives, but it drops to
> around 4 when BOINC is running those applications, even though they are at
> nice 19.
That would explain the load average. I run some SETI's on my dual celeron
but only one per processor.
08:55:50 up 48 days, 23:40, 1 user, load average: 2.00, 2.00, 2.00
63 processes: 60 sleeping, 3 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states: cpu user nice system irq softirq iowait idle
total 1.4% 197.0% 1.2% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
cpu00 0.7% 98.4% 0.7% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
cpu01 0.7% 98.6% 0.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
Mem: 514220k av, 305372k used, 208848k free, 0k shrd, 126984k
buff
137988k active, 46540k inactive
Swap: 1006952k av, 27280k used, 979672k free 16104k
cached
PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND
1410 root 39 19 16296 14M 1196 R N 99.0 2.9 70129m 0 setiathome
26351 root 39 19 15884 15M 1152 R N 99.0 3.0 4050m 1 setiathome
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| m.marien 2004-10-01, 5:45 pm |
|
"Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:10lpibs8bp5sc9f@corp.supernews.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> m.marien wrote:
>
>
> My machine has two hyperthreaded Xeon processors, so they appear as four.
Makes sense I guess. As you mentioned before, the low priority stuff still
clobbers the cache once so it slows the priority stuff down. I guess anytime
it gets processor time it reloads into cache.
A question. SETI is a single thread process so when I run it on my quad it
only takes 25% of the processor. Same on my dual, one SETI only takes 50% of
the processing time. So how much processing time does a *single* SETI take
on your dual hyperthreading system - 25% or 50%?
Some pictures for your amusement. The first shows a quad with three SETI
(75%) processes and a dual with a single SETI (50%) process. The second
shows the quad with two SETI process but with the affinity set to specific
processors. These two processors are at 100% while the other two are idling.
I read somewhere that if you limit the SETI to one processor it will run
faster as it stays in cache.
http://www.digitalmapping.sk.ca/images/quad.gif
http://www.digitalmapping.sk.ca/images/affinity.JPG
I guess the thing to notice in the first picture is that while the SETI
processes are passed back and forth among the processors, the processors
aren't really equally used as shown by the graphs.
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| m.marien 2004-10-01, 5:45 pm |
|
"Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:10lqsg2hdk1n753@corp.supernews.com...
> m.marien wrote:
>
> I have my _top_ set the other way, so the total for my machine is 400%.
>
> 10:50:36 up 8 days, 21:54, 3 users, load average: 4.17, 4.21, 4.18
> 160 processes: 155 sleeping, 5 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
> CPU states: cpu user nice system irq softirq iowait idle
> total 29.6% 361.6% 7.6% 0.4% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
> cpu00 9.1% 87.8% 2.2% 0.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.1%
> cpu01 5.8% 92.5% 1.6% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
> cpu02 2.9% 95.6% 1.3% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
> cpu03 11.7% 85.5% 2.4% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.1%
> Mem: 4100868k av, 4067544k used, 33324k free, 0k shrd, 70432k
> buff
> 3168284k actv, 597020k in_d, 74444k in_c
> Swap: 8193076k av, 114616k used, 8078460k free 3636144k
> cached
>
>
> PID PPID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM CTIME
> COMMAND
> 1716 9896 boinc 39 19 46136 38M 3180 R N 94.5 0.9 5407m
> hadsm3um_4.04_i686-pc-lin
> 19016 9895 boinc 39 19 15900 15M 916 R N 91.5 0.3 206:28
> setiathome_4.02_i686-pc-l
> 4023 9912 boinc 39 19 46104 39M 3180 R N 90.2 0.9 3039m
> hadsm3um_4.04_i686-pc-lin
> 20248 9895 boinc 39 19 15896 15M 904 R N 86.6 0.3 171:00
> setiathome_4.02_i686-pc-l
>
> So they are running around 90% each. You could divide all these by four if
> you wish to normalize to 100%. They normally run higher, around 98%, but
> some other stuff is going on now that makes them lower.
>
> When the machine is not running much else, a single setiathome takes 100%
> of one processor, or very near. And two take very nearly 100% of each of
> two processors, three take very nearly 100% of three processors, but with
> four, one of them gets only about 95% of a processor as the higher
> priority jobs take the rest.
>
> But remember, there are really only two clever processors in there. So
> even if they are all running 100%, the work done is not 4x the work of
> one. Running two insteances of setiathome, each one can do a work unit in
> a little less than 4 hours wall clock time. Running three does more
> overall work than two, but not 50% more, and running four definately does
> not do as much as 4x the amount of one.
>
> Now when running 4 setiathomes, they tend to take about 4.5 hours each.
> When running two setiathomes and 2 climatepredictors
> (hadsm3um_4.04_i686-pc-linux), the two setiathomes take a bit over 5 hours
> to do a work unit. I blame it on cache contention. These processors have
> three or four caches, depending how you count them. There is an L1
> instruction cache and an L1 data cache. These are around 16KBytes, IIRC.
> Each processor also has a 512KByte L2 cache and a 1024KByte L3 cache. But
> setiathome is a program that requires around 15Meg of memory (each) and
> hadsm3um_4.04_i686-pc-linux requires around 38 Meg of memory each. The
> working sets of each may be somewhat less, but they will never ever fit
> into the 1024KByte L3 caches.
>
There is always a certain amount of overhead so the SETI processes will
never get 100% of all the processing power. But it looks like one SETI
process takes about 25% of the available processing power or 50% of one
processor. So you need to run two processes per processor in order to
maximize the processing power.
I guess since the demise of DOS all o/s are multithreading. But it's still
an interesting move on Intel's part, a processor built to take advantage of
the software ??? It's usually the other way around.
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| Roger,
I was running FC1 with no problems. Installed FC2 and had troubles,
too. Had to swap some hardware devices to satisfy FC2 because I am
not a device coder. On another computer I am dual-booting WinME
(original O.S.) and FC1 on a Compaq Presario laptop. Some day I would
like to be captain code geek and tinker with device drivers, but for
now I will stick to being geek second class and let those in the know
knock out the kinks.
"m.marien" <mm AT RiverCityCanada DOT com> wrote in message
news:10lmocff338bhcc@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Roger" <roger@no_thanks.com> wrote in message
> news:BIH6d.21593$QJ3.16167@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I used FC1 for my servers. I have fewer problems if I stay back from
the
> leading edge. FC1 has been around for a while longer than FC2 so has
more
> bugs worked out. It also has an update source. There are no updates
for
> security problems with RH9. Not that Linux has any gaping holes, but
if
> others rely on it, it's better safe then sorry. It's also easier to
apply a
> patch rather then update to a new version if you do find a hole.
>
>
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| Exotic-Scales.com 2004-10-05, 5:45 pm |
| Yeah, seems like RedHat is turning out to be just like Microsoft.
"Roger" <roger@no_thanks.com> wrote in message
news:qIA6d.21282$QJ3.2484@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Oh-no, not RHEL. Can't afford anything too pricey.
> Is Red Hat trying to charge outrageously for
> software that is largely contributed? If so, BOOOO!!!
>
>
>
> "Markku Kolkka" <markku.kolkka@iki.fi> wrote in message
> news:cje8tb$g84$2@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
>
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Red Hat seems much worse now. With the Fedora project,
they can keep taking contributions from the community.
Those parts of Fedora Core <n> that are worth merging into
RHEL, they'll take and make $$$ at the same time.
Leaving the contributing community with
"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR". Yeah, RIGHT !!!
Why do you think Red Hat is buying back their own stocks?
Because they think they're going to make a killing with
the RHEL strategy.
It would be foolish to contribute to anything related to Red Hat.
Contribute elsewhere.
"Exotic-Scales.com" <jb@NOSPAM.exotic-scales.com> wrote in message
news:10m692u59na0a4a@corp.supernews.com...
> Yeah, seems like RedHat is turning out to be just like Microsoft.
>
>
> "Roger" <roger@no_thanks.com> wrote in message
> news:qIA6d.21282$QJ3.2484@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
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| Paul Lutus 2004-10-06, 2:45 am |
| Roger wrote:
>
> Red Hat seems much worse now. With the Fedora project,
> they can keep taking contributions from the community.
> Those parts of Fedora Core <n> that are worth merging into
> RHEL, they'll take and make $$$ at the same time.
> Leaving the contributing community with
> "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR". Yeah, RIGHT !!!
>
> Why do you think Red Hat is buying back their own stocks?
> Because they think they're going to make a killing with
> the RHEL strategy.
>
> It would be foolish to contribute to anything related to Red Hat.
You may be right about your basic point, a view I am in sympathy with, but
the entire RHEL distribution can be downloaded for free, with no objections
from RH. All you miss are the technical support services. There is an
outfit called "whiteboxlinux" that offers a repackaged RHEL without the Red
Hat logos and with no RH support.
http://whiteboxlinux.org/
This is in no way meant to subtract from the point you are making.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
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