Anonymous Servers - Twisty Remailer Goes Down Drain

Author

Twisty Remailer Goes Down Drain

Chaz

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

It was a pretty good remailer for a while. Then censorship
reared it's ugly head. All of a sudden...BAM...there's a
list of blocked newsgroups as long as your arm. Looks
like it's become another Eelbash. Too bad.....

..

-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Anonymous

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On 22 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
>It was a pretty good remailer for a while. Then censorship
>reared it's ugly head. All of a sudden...BAM...there's a
>list of blocked newsgroups as long as your arm. Looks
>like it's become another Eelbash. Too bad.....

Yeah, that's too bad. I guess we'll all just have to use your remailer from
now on.

Since you're the one who has taken on the extra expense, and all the
trouble of trying to please everyone. You've handled all the complaints,
and made sure that thing is up and running with current stats and keys
regardless of whether it is a holiday or the weekend or whatever.

Which one is it? I don't see the "chaz" remailer in my listings.

My 2¢

2005-12-22, 8:46 pm

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-22, 8:46 pm

In article <CLN387WR38708.7386342593@anonymous>
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
>
>
>
> It was a pretty good remailer for a while. Then censorship
> reared it's ugly head. All of a sudden...BAM...there's a
> list of blocked newsgroups as long as your arm. Looks
> like it's become another Eelbash. Too bad.....
>
I don't think that either here or there, probably been getting a bit of
grief from the serial complainers. What confuses me is the massive list of
blocked headers some remailers, including Twisted, have. I have always
thought that ALL headers were stripped and replaced by the remailer's
generic headers. Why the big list? Is it necessary? Why don't all
remailers do the same?

Thomas J. Boschloo

2005-12-22, 8:46 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Thrasher Remailer wrote:
> In article <CLN387WR38708.7386342593@anonymous>
> Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
>
>
> I don't think that either here or there, probably been getting a bit of
> grief from the serial complainers. What confuses me is the massive list of
> blocked headers some remailers, including Twisted, have. I have always
> thought that ALL headers were stripped and replaced by the remailer's
> generic headers. Why the big list? Is it necessary? Why don't all
> remailers do the same?

With both CPunk and Mixmaster a user can supply additional headers. All
original headers are stripped..

Sorry I don't read as much here as I used to, but WoW is consuming a lot
of my time atm..

Mixminion doesn't allow any headers other that the programs allows
through the simple text interface..

Regards,
Thomas
- --
Gothika: "How can you trust someone who thinks you are crazy"
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Been around a while

2005-12-22, 8:46 pm

In article <A6RGZKCH38709.337974537@reece.net.au>
Thrasher Remailer <thrasher@reece.net.au> wrote:
>
> In article <CLN387WR38708.7386342593@anonymous>
> Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
> I don't think that either here or there, probably been getting a bit of
> grief from the serial complainers. What confuses me is the massive list of
> blocked headers some remailers, including Twisted, have. I have always
> thought that ALL headers were stripped and replaced by the remailer's
> generic headers. Why the big list? Is it necessary? Why don't all
> remailers do the same?

I looked at Dingo's, one of the oldest and most reliable remailers there is. He has
a massive list. My guess is, he has learned over many years that anything that could
slip through, will. Murphy's Law

Those massive lists protect us from ourselves.

To the OP, I see many of the same groups blocked in Twisted that are blocked by
others. Others have many more when you look. All binarie groups are blocked by
Dizum. Another blocks all groups with the word "sex" in it. Warez is blocked by
nearly all. The OP is exagerating. I also looked at Twisted's load. It is one of the
highest loaded despite the usenet blocks. I have a template that specifies Twisted
as the exit. I have never had any problems. My post success rate is 100%. And Chaz,
what remailer do you operate that allows names and does not block any usenet groups?
I'll be happy to use it

But, the noreply thesauraus doesn't show any

Yours must
be missed. Post details here so we can use it.

In reponse to this reply, many exits will not post to usenet at all. I remember when
Austria, Starwars, Metacola, etc. did. They probably gave up because of abuse.
Itomix started then suddenly stopped. Why do you think he stopped? I'll bet you $10
it was abuse. Hashcash was started because of remailer abuse. I don't like it and
don't use the remailers that require it to post to usenet.

I agree an exit that allows usenet posts and names will get more than his share of
grief from the serial complainers than any middleman or exit that blocks posting to
usenet. They won't get any! But that doesn't help us that want to post to usenet.

I used my template for this post. I know it will get posted. Not a doubt in my mind.

Chain: *,*,twisty; Copies=5

Remember, without the exits that allow posting to usenet, we wouldn't be having this
thread.

Anonymous

2005-12-23, 2:47 am

In article <A9GHYSTA38708.8978703704@twistycreek.com>
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Been around a while) wrote:
>
> Chain: *,*,twisty; Copies=5

Copies 5 is a bit excessive, no?

Been around a while

2005-12-23, 2:47 am

In article <a2a79e461d634ff295378284db3a5991@anon.bananasplit.info>
Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>
> In article <A9GHYSTA38708.8978703704@twistycreek.com>
> Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Been around a while) wrote:
>
> Copies 5 is a bit excessive, no?

Yes, now that we have more reliable remailers I will drop that to 3. I wasn't paying
attention to the improved reliability of the remailers. I saved the template at 3.

I use Twist for my nym reply blocks too. Never lost a nym message back from Komite,
Nan, or Hod unless they were down.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. No need to waste resources. Even at 3, I
have absolute 100% confidence this message will get posted.

Sent at 12:15 EST

Anonymous

2005-12-23, 7:47 am

On 22 Dec 2005 22:43:38 -0000, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz)
wrote:

>It was a pretty good remailer for a while. Then censorship
>reared it's ugly head. All of a sudden...BAM...there's a
>list of blocked newsgroups as long as your arm. Looks
>like it's become another Eelbash. Too bad.....

Disappointing, sure, and the length of the list appearing all at once does
seem odd - Twisty admin has a bit of a hair trigger, so I expect him to
overreact to complaints, and change how he runs things for a while, until
he settles into a mode users, his free time and his temper can live with.
Until then I use his remailer with caution; bad tempers can throw babies
out with the bathwater - it is still fairly new after all, and its how he
pans out in the long run that matters.

If there is a particular newsgroup you want him to reconsider, why not ask
him to give it some thought?

But he sure isn't Eelbash.....

And he doesn't add annoying footnotes like this one:

>
>-=-
>This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.
>
>
>

Asshat

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

>And he doesn't add annoying footnotes like this one:[vbcol=seagreen]
>

Which remailer is it that adds that stupid tag? That bugs the shit out
of me when I go random and get that.

TwistyCreek

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article <LWXEK6HZ38709.0225462963@twistycreek.com>
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Been around a while) wrote:
>
> In article <a2a79e461d634ff295378284db3a5991@anon.bananasplit.info>
> Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>
> Yes, now that we have more reliable remailers I will drop that to 3. I wasn't paying
> attention to the improved reliability of the remailers. I saved the template at 3.
>
> I use Twist for my nym reply blocks too. Never lost a nym message back from Komite,
> Nan, or Hod unless they were down.
>
> Thanks for bringing that to my attention. No need to waste resources. Even at 3, I
> have absolute 100% confidence this message will get posted.
>
> Sent at 12:15 EST

I've always used 2 and never had a problem.

BigappleAdmin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article <CK1RM4DE38709.4090972222@twistycreek.com>
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Asshat) wrote:
>
>
>
> Which remailer is it that adds that stupid tag? That bugs the shit out
> of me when I go random and get that.

I do. Feel free not to use my remailer if it bothers you.

-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 23 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (BigappleAdmin)
wrote:
>In article <CK1RM4DE38709.4090972222@twistycreek.com>
>Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Asshat) wrote:
>
>I do. Feel free not to use my remailer if it bothers you.

I like your attitude, Zax. ;-)

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Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

Asshat wrote:

>
> Which remailer is it that adds that stupid tag? That bugs the shit out of
> me when I go random and get that.

That's OK, drooling subtards who are too lazy or incompetent to manage the
menial task of examining message headers to discover the most obvious of
answers to their ridiculous questions bug the shit out of everybody else.

Zax

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

On 23 Dec 2005 16:40:43 -0000, Dingo Admin wrote in
Message-Id: <CE5TW4CN38709.4449421296@anonymous.poster>:

>
> I like your attitude, Zax. ;-)

Actually Bigapple said it, not me. I like his attitude too. :-)

--
pub 1024D/8ED57743 2003-07-08 Bananasplit Operator
Key fingerprint = 796F 67E0 E890 A0BB BDAE EBB4 94A6 7A09 8ED5 7743
uid Admin <admin.bananasplit.info>

TwistyCreek

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005, Zax <fleegle@bananasplit.info> wrote:
>On 23 Dec 2005 16:40:43 -0000, Dingo Admin wrote in
>Message-Id: <CE5TW4CN38709.4449421296@anonymous.poster>:
>
>
>Actually Bigapple said it, not me. I like his attitude too. :-)
>

Whoops! Then we are in agreement, then. We both like Bigapple's attitude,
and we both think it's about time for me to say "D'oh!" <g>

Sorry 'bout that Zax. Bananas, apples, it's all good.

Dingo Admin
dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com

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Anonymous

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

On 23 Dec 2005 16:53:05 -0000, TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:

>On 22 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
>Where's this "list" of blocked groups? I use twisty a lot, and so far
>don't see
>any blocked groups. Can someone copy the list here so everyone can see it?
>

Each remailer's "remailer-conf" will list blocked groups, although other
filters may also be in operation. Either email the remailer, with subject =
remailer-conf, or use a thesuarus site, for example:
www.panta-rhei.dyndns.org/thesaurus/Thesaurus.html.

I have a question, if any of the admins isn't too pissed off at all this
whining to answer it: where
alt.religion.scientology is blocked, is that because of abuse in the
newsgroup, or harassment by CoS? And where groups are blocked is it
usually a permanent thing, or do you review it?

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

On 23 Dec 2005, TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:
>On 22 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
>Where's this "list" of blocked groups? I use twisty a lot, and so far
>don't see
>any blocked groups. Can someone copy the list here so everyone can see it?

No! Go get it yourself. "Everyone" can see it. All they have to do is
request it.

Twisty Admin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23 Dec 2005 12:28:32 -0000, Anonymous
<Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:

>On 22 Dec 2005 22:43:38 -0000, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header
>(Chaz) wrote:
>
>
>Disappointing, sure, and the length of the list appearing all at once does
>seem odd - Twisty admin has a bit of a hair trigger, so I expect him to
>overreact to complaints, and change how he runs things for a while, until
>he settles into a mode users, his free time and his temper can live with.
>Until then I use his remailer with caution; bad tempers can throw babies
>out with the bathwater - it is still fairly new after all, and its how he
>pans out in the long run that matters.
>
>If there is a particular newsgroup you want him to reconsider, why not ask
>him to give it some thought?
>
>But he sure isn't Eelbash.....
>
>And he doesn't add annoying footnotes like this one:
>

I was out of town on a business trip. I have no remote access to the
re-mailer for security of the re-mailer. I can access my home/office
computer but it is separated from the re-mailer computer. Again for
security of the re-mailer.

I came back to a ton of complaints and took some actions.

Yes, I do have a touch of a hair trigger. But in my defense of that, I
wouldn't be living today if I didn't. Things I have seen and done in my
youth will remain with me forever. There are a lot of mornings I wake up in
a sweat with visions of the past crystal clear in my mind. Trust me, you
wouldn't want to see them or live with them. I'll go to my grave with those
images etched in my mind. I can see them as I write this paragraph so I'll
stop here.

If you look carefully at the strip headers, you will see they are the
standard strip headers followed by the identical stripped headers copied
and pasted from another long time re-mailer. If you really must know, I
copied Dingo's. He is one hell of a lot smarter than me. He knows what is
good for the re-mailer system. If he thinks they are good, that's all I
need to know. He runs a re-mailer that I have admired and respected for
many years. They are intended to block trolls from circumventing the
standard list of stripped headers. I just saw an example of a troll
circumventing the standard set of stripped headers.

The stats I use for the re-mailer also come from Dingo. I do try to carry
every re-mailer. It is up to the user to decide which re-mailers they want
to use. However, any random hops will only be done for re-mailers contained
in Dingo's stats. Min Rel and Min Lat setting will prohibit random hops to
certain re-mailers. For example Eelbash. It is in my cap string and you can
specify it if you choose, but a random hop will not go there. I trust Dingo
fully for my stats. Again, he is much smarter than I. Whenever I can, I
cheat and follow his lead rather than try to figure things out for myself.

The newsgroup block list is also selectively copied and pasted from other
re-mailers plus a couple I have added. I will trim it down at a request.
But send the request to my admin address. I don't read this group very
often. My time is too short, and I don't need to be aggravated by threads
such as this one.

I have trimmed it down some, but you will probably find some you wish
unblocked. I will unblock them if they don't get abused. Others will remain
forever blocked and some will have the blocks lifted when abuse ceases.
There are over 120,000 newsgroups. I am only blocking 24. And you think
this list is as long as your arm? You have mighty short arms fella

1. alt.binaries.pictures.underage.* - From another re-mailer. Child porn.
Don't bother to ask.

2. alt.binaries.pgp - From another re-mailer. Child porn. Don't bother to
ask.

3. alt.flame.niggers - From another re-mailer. Obvious. Don't bother to
ask.

4. soc.men* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at this time.

5. edm.general - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

6. alt.anarchism - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

7. alt.atheism* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at this
time.

8. alt.dads-rights.unmoderated* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of
re-mailers. Not at this time.

9. fl.general* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at this
time.

10. soc.culture.cuba* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at
this time.

11. soc.culture.jewish* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at
this time.

12. wpg.general* - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

13. soc.men* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at this time.

14. alt.psychology* - From another re-mailer (IIRC). Tell me about it.

15. milw.general* - Ongoing trolling and misuse of re-mailers. Not at this
time.

16. wi.general* - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

17. rec.ponds - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

18. alt.usenet.kooks - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

19. news.admin.net-abuse.email - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

20. alt.religion.jehovahs-witn - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

21. alt.suicide.holiday - From another re-mailer. I don't believe in
suicide. Don't bother to ask. Shit, I never even guessed in my wildest
dreams that there would be a group for this.

22. soc.culture.israel - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

23. alt.religion.scientology - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

24. alt.spam - From another re-mailer. Tell me about it.

Now, let me tell you about the threats and complaints I have to put up
with. I'll only show a few examples, I can't spend the rest of the day at
it.

>This below is number fifteen of the same post that has been post to
>our local newsgroup "xxx.xxx" in the last 24 hrs..
>Can you not put a stop to it? If it does not stop we will get our
>local service providers involved and have alias.net,dizum.com, and
>yourselves at twistycreek.com blocked.

>Spam Reporter
>Abuse Report - Repeat Offender
>alt.sports.football.pro.ny-giants:150792
>There are too many overapid NIGGERS on this team.

>Anonymous
>If you don't stop this abuse of our group "xx.xx" I will hunt you down and
>KILL YOU!.

>Someone is using your remailer to post MULTIPLE messages using my name.
>Please help. (you got multiple pleas from me because there are
>multiple messages posted on usenet using my name.
rest snipped to protect identity of sender

>Spam Reporter
>Enjoy the product of your anonymity
>.Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com
>alt.sports.football.pro.phila-eagles:316392
>alt.sports.football.pro.ny-giants:150451 alt.atheism:4031252
>alt.dads-rights.unmoderated:147725
>I hate sports because it is filled with so many NIGGERS>
>I HATE NIGGERS.

>Hi!
> Somebody is anonymously thanks your services posting on news
>articles in my name "xxxxxxx". Articles I have nothing to do with in
>any way. Here is a header from one such a news:
>Newsgroups:
>pl.soc.polityka,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.europe
>uk.politics.misc, pl.regionalne.warszawa,soc.culture.russian

>Anonymous
>I will find you and kill you BASTARD. I will cut off your balls and shove
>them down your throat.

Now, any honest re-mailer users willing to step up to the plate and start a
re-mailer to replace mine? Let me warn you, it costs me personally over a
$1,000 a year to operate a free service. The costs are in the extra ISP
costs to operate within the ToS of my provider, domain name costs, and
purchased backup mail services to minimize lost mail. Dedicated computer
and other hardware costs are not included.

There you have it.

TwistyCreek Admin

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Asshat

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

>> Which remailer is it that adds that stupid tag? That bugs the shit out
>
>I do. Feel free not to use my remailer if it bothers you.

Thanks for letting me know. I will do us both a favor and not use your
remailer.

George Orwell

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article <3u6oq15e20473jgf0l17fssk667iqj8bke@4ax.com>
Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
>
>

I do not accept threats of any action in a complaint.

BigappleAdmin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article <CE5TW4CN38709.4449421296@anonymous.poster>
Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On 23 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (BigappleAdmin)
> wrote:
>
> I like your attitude, Zax. ;-)
>

I'm not Zax, nor do I play him on TV.
:-)

-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

BigappleAdmin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article <OMMBPUE138709.5968287037@twistycreek.com>
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Asshat) wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for letting me know.

You're welcome.

-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Brother Theodore

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

Anonymous <Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:

>On 22 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Chaz) wrote:
>
>Yeah, that's too bad. I guess we'll all just have to use your remailer from
>now on.

And the remailer that you operate is? You didn't identify yourself
as a remop, and if you're not STFU, who cares about your blathering!

>
>Since you're the one who has taken on the extra expense, and all the
>trouble of trying to please everyone. You've handled all the complaints,
>and made sure that thing is up and running with current stats and keys
>regardless of whether it is a holiday or the weekend or whatever.
>
>Which one is it? I don't see the "chaz" remailer in my listings.
>
Yes it takes time, effort and balls to operate a non-middle remailer
I appreciate that. But I recall twisty admin posting a little spiel
on this ng when he started up. In essence he proclaimed how
much he disliked censorship. Yet here he is caving in to the
chronic complainers - the Big Brother wannabes out there.
He didn't stand by his principles very long, now did he? Once
the forces of darkness see that a remop will give in and start
censoring, then their demands will be endless. It's all down-
hill from there.

Tudman Todmorden

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:

>
>The newsgroup block list is also selectively copied and pasted from other
>re-mailers plus a couple I have added. I will trim it down at a request.
>But send the request to my admin address. I don't read this group very
>often. My time is too short, and I don't need to be aggravated by threads
>such as this one.
>

So, you've mechanically copied other remailers' block lists. Hell,
you're worse than I thought. I supposed that at the very least
you were being relentlessly harassed by gadflies. Why don't
you just let one of the other remops take over your remailer and
operate it for you since you don't want the bother and aggravation?

Zax

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

On 23 Dec 2005 20:54:55 -0000, Tudman Todmorden wrote in
Message-Id: <PQ6F9YSU38709.659224537@anonymous.poster>:

> So, you've mechanically copied other remailers' block lists. Hell,
> you're worse than I thought. I supposed that at the very least
> you were being relentlessly harassed by gadflies. Why don't
> you just let one of the other remops take over your remailer and
> operate it for you since you don't want the bother and aggravation?

I don't think you should use it. I'm sure Twisty wouldn't mind.

--
pub 1024D/8ED57743 2003-07-08 Bananasplit Operator
Key fingerprint = 796F 67E0 E890 A0BB BDAE EBB4 94A6 7A09 8ED5 7743
uid Admin <admin.bananasplit.info>

Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 23 Dec 2005, Tudman Todmorden <todmorden@eelbash.fastmail.fm> wrote:
>Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
>
>
>So, you've mechanically copied other remailers' block lists. Hell,
>you're worse than I thought. I supposed that at the very least
>you were being relentlessly harassed by gadflies. Why don't
>you just let one of the other remops take over your remailer and
>operate it for you since you don't want the bother and aggravation?

He has copied the lists, trimmed them, *and added his own entries*. When I
started Dingo, I copied other remops block lists, stripped header lists,
and even the abuse policy.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with drawing on others experience for a
leg up when starting out. It allows you to throw open the doors to your
remailer and provide the anonymity and functionality that is expected from
day one.

Your complaints are weak, and childish, eelbash. Sour grapes, perhaps?

Dingo Admin
dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com

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Zax

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:06:37 +0000 (UTC), Zax wrote in
Message-Id: <dohost$4uh$1@bananasplit.info>:

> I don't think you should use it. I'm sure Twisty wouldn't mind.

Dingo, how was that?

--
pub 1024D/8ED57743 2003-07-08 Bananasplit Operator
Key fingerprint = 796F 67E0 E890 A0BB BDAE EBB4 94A6 7A09 8ED5 7743
uid Admin <admin.bananasplit.info>

Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005, Brother Theodore <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>Anonymous <Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:
>
>
>And the remailer that you operate is?

Dingo

>You didn't identify yourself
>as a remop, and if you're not STFU, who cares about your blathering!

Sorry I failed to post according to your protocols. Perhaps now YOU would
consider STFU.

>
>Yes it takes time, effort and balls to operate a non-middle remailer
>I appreciate that. But I recall twisty admin posting a little spiel
>on this ng when he started up. In essence he proclaimed how
>much he disliked censorship. Yet here he is caving in to the
>chronic complainers - the Big Brother wannabes out there.
>He didn't stand by his principles very long, now did he? Once
>the forces of darkness see that a remop will give in and start
>censoring, then their demands will be endless. It's all down-
>hill from there.

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Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005, Zax <fleegle@bananasplit.info> wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:06:37 +0000 (UTC), Zax wrote in
>Message-Id: <dohost$4uh$1@bananasplit.info>:
>
>
>Dingo, how was that?

>

ROFL!

Perfect, Zax! ;-)

Dingo Admin
dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com

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2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article < aa5830dffe894ebecc715e62e9187345@mixmast
er.it>
George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>
> I do not accept threats of any action in a complaint.

Thus spaketh the Chaz remailer

Tudman Todmorden

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

Zax <fleegle@bananasplit.info> wrote:

>On 23 Dec 2005 20:54:55 -0000, Tudman Todmorden wrote in
>Message-Id: <PQ6F9YSU38709.659224537@anonymous.poster>:
>
>
>I don't think you should use it. I'm sure Twisty wouldn't mind.

Ahhh, I see that Mr Zax is now responding for you. There you
have it - he's ready and willing to operate your remailer for you.
Since you apparently have no mind of your own, perhaps you
should take him up on it.

TwistyCreek

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

On 23 Dec 2005, Anonymous <Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:
>On 23 Dec 2005 16:53:05 -0000, TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:
>
>
>Each remailer's "remailer-conf" will list blocked groups, although other
>filters may also be in operation. Either email the remailer, with subject =
>remailer-conf, or use a thesuarus site, for example:
> www.panta-rhei.dyndns.org/thesaurus/Thesaurus.html.
>
>I have a question, if any of the admins isn't too pissed off at all this
>whining to answer it: where
>alt.religion.scientology is blocked, is that because of abuse in the
>newsgroup, or harassment by CoS? And where groups are blocked is it
>usually a permanent thing, or do you review it?

Wow, sure nuff. Here's today's list:

>ANON-POST-TO - BLOCKED NEWSGROUPS
>alt.binaries.pictures.underage.*
>alt.binaries.pgp
>alt.flame.niggers
>soc.men*
>edm.general
>alt.anarchism
>alt.atheism*
>alt.dads-rights.unmoderated*
>fl.general*
>soc.culture.cuba*
>soc.culture.jewish*
>wpg.general*
>soc.men*
>alt.psychology*
>milw.general*
>wi.general*
>rec.ponds
>alt.usenet.kooks
>news.admin.net-abuse.email
>alt.religion.jehovahs-witn
>alt.suicide.holiday
>soc.culture.israel
>alt.religion.scientology
>alt.spam

That's a pretty long list! I'm still using Twisty to post this to
alt.privacy.anon-server, but I wonder how long it will be before Twisty
just goes ahead and blocks this group as well? Goodbye, twisty.

Anonymous

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

Twisty Admin wrote:

> Now, any honest re-mailer users willing to step up to the plate and start a
> re-mailer to replace mine? Let me warn you, it costs me personally over a
> $1,000 a year to operate a free service.

Your remailer hasn't been up anywhere near a year.

Look, if you don't want to operate your remailer any more then don't.
You don't need a replacement. We were doing fine before you came, and
we will do fine long after you leave.

This superiority complex of yours is tiresome.

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer

2005-12-23, 5:47 pm

In article <3u6oq15e20473jgf0l17fssk667iqj8bke@4ax.com>
Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
> 3. alt.flame.niggers - From another re-mailer. Obvious. Don't bother to
> ask.

Why block it? If someone is going to make racist posts,
surely that is exactly the right place on usenet for them
to go.

> 21. alt.suicide.holiday - From another re-mailer. I don't believe in
> suicide. Don't bother to ask. Shit, I never even guessed in my wildest
> dreams that there would be a group for this.

It seems that you have decided you don't like the subject
matter of the group and have blocked it. Nothing to do
with abuse being sent through your remailer.

I thought you weren't going to do things like that?

Thrasher Admin

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <WICBPL1W38709.4909837963@anonymous.poster>
Anonymous <Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:

> I have a question, if any of the admins isn't too pissed off at all this
> whining to answer it: where alt.religion.scientology is blocked, is that
> because of abuse in the newsgroup, or harassment by CoS?

In my case, it was due to a large number of complaints to
abuse@reece.net.au and to my ISP which appeared to be generated by
continual cross-posting to a.r.s. I have no idea of the source of the
complaints. There were a few complaints sent to
thrasher_admin@reece.net.au concerning that group, but they were mainly
about the posting of personal information by some third party and
"forging" of username@email.add. I guess you could say, in the end, I took
the easy way out.

> And where groups are blocked is it usually a permanent thing, or do you review it?

I review it.

- --
Cheers,
Thrasher...

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Monte Carlo

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com> wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>On Fri, 23 Dec 2005, Brother Theodore <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>Dingo
>
I wouldn't want to identify myself openly either, if I were running
the Dingo remailer. I quit using Dingo a loooong time ago. As
far as I'm concerned it might as well not even exist. Too
arbitrary and too pro-censorship. I don't want to have to check
a remailer's config file every day to keep up with the constantly
changing block lists.

>
>Sorry I failed to post according to your protocols. Perhaps now YOU would
>consider STFU.
>

You'd love to be able to shut up your critics, wouldn't you laddy?
But you can't, so suck it up! You've got the wrong temperment
and attitude to be in the remop biz.

TwistyCreek

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

In article <M9PNE58S38709.7124305556@anonymous.poster>
Tudman Todmorden <todmorden@eelbash.fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>
> Zax <fleegle@bananasplit.info> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ahhh, I see that Mr Zax is now responding for you. There you
> have it - he's ready and willing to operate your remailer for you.
> Since you apparently have no mind of your own, perhaps you
> should take him up on it.

Ahhh, Penis envy Mr Eelbash?

$remailer{"eelbash"}
Messages Received Last Week: 5430

$remailer{"dingo"}
Messages Received Last Week: 53640

$remailer{"twisty"}
Messages Received Last Week: 54970

$remailer{"bigapple"}
Messages Received Last Week: 51640

TwistyCreek

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

In article <MY7YW9I738709.7481481481@twistycreek.com>
TwistyCreek <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

> Wow, sure nuff. Here's today's list:
>
>
> That's a pretty long list! I'm still using Twisty to post this to
> alt.privacy.anon-server, but I wonder how long it will be before Twisty
> just goes ahead and blocks this group as well? Goodbye, twisty.

So am I. But I don't think he will either of us. He is only
blocking 24 groups.

Why not XXXXX at Dingo too? 28 groups and all binaries.warez,
100's of them or more?

ANON-POST-TO - BLOCKED NEWSGROUPS
alt.binaries.pictures.underage.*
alt.binaries.pictures.bc-series*
alt.binaries.warez.*
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.bondage
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.torture
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female.bodybuilder
alt.binaries.multimedia.bdsm
alt.binaries.pgp
alt.flame.niggers
soc.men*
alt.military.retired*
alt.war.vietnam*
soc.veterans*
alt.satanism*
edm.general
alt.fan.dragons
uk.media.tv.*
alt.tv.*
rec.arts.*
uk.misc
alt.coffee
alt.anarchism
alt.nuke.thomas-nord
swnet.politik
alt.2600.*
alt.warez.*
rec.collecting.stamps.*
sci.astro.amateur
rec.travel.*

Or Dizum? A big blanket block covering tens of thousands of
groups.
erotica
binaries
pictures
warez

Or George? 42 groups blocked.
rec.radio.cb
microsoft.public.es.windowsxp
it.fan.musica.guccini
soc.culture.israel
soc.culture.jewish
soc.culture.irish
alt.graphics.bryce
alt.fan.harry-potter
talk.politics.guns
microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin
alt.suicide.holiday
alt.lifestyle.furry
rec.woodworking
rec.travel.air
comp.os.vms
can.internet.highspeed
alt.cellular.fido
alt.usenet.kooks
alt.free.newsservers
alt.2600.warez
alt.ftpsearch.com
alt.astrology
alt.astrology.metapsych
alt.revisionism
de.sci.psychologie
de.soc.weltanschauung.buddhismus
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn
rec.motorcycles.harley
alt.teens
misc.transport.road
alt.autos.camaro
alt.autos.daewoo
it.sport.atletica
opera.deutsch
de.sci.astronomie
alt.drugs.hard
alt.radio.pirate
uk.politics.misc
news.admin.net-abuse.email
alt.spam
news.admin.net-abuse.email
alt.tits.big
alt.clearing.avatar

Anonymous

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 22:57:20 +0000, TwistyCreek wrote:

> On 23 Dec 2005, Anonymous <Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:
>
> Wow, sure nuff. Here's today's list:
>

It is too bad that more exit remailers do not use Eelbash's method of
targetting just the problem newsgroups, and putting in disclaimers and not
allowing personal From headers, but just for those groups.

There is nothing better than those two things - disclaimer and no personal
From header - to discourage the psychos who would otherwise post through
the remailer.

Why block a newsgroup when you can make your remailer unfriendly to
psychos for the newsgroup they want to torment?

If other remailer operators cannot figure out how to do it, maybe Panta
Admin will add that capability to his excellent set of additions to
Reliable.

[vbcol=seagreen]
> That's a pretty long list! I'm still using Twisty to post this to
> alt.privacy.anon-server, but I wonder how long it will be before Twisty
> just goes ahead and blocks this group as well? Goodbye, twisty.

Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 24 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Monte Carlo) wrote:
>Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com> wrote:
>
>I wouldn't want to identify myself openly either, if I were running
>the Dingo remailer. I quit using Dingo a loooong time ago. As
>far as I'm concerned it might as well not even exist. Too
>arbitrary and too pro-censorship. I don't want to have to check
>a remailer's config file every day to keep up with the constantly
>changing block lists.

Whatever.

Too arbitrary and too pro-censorship? I don't think so. Care to explain
what you mean? Or are you that non-stop whiner who bitches endlessly
because I blocked your favorite drug group? If so, I stilI
remember you.

>
>
>You'd love to be able to shut up your critics, wouldn't you laddy?
>But you can't, so suck it up! You've got the wrong temperment
>and attitude to be in the remop biz.

<VBG> Ya think so, huh, laddie?

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Anonymous

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

On 23 Dec 2005 23:49:13 -0000, Thrasher Admin <thrasher_admin@reece.net.au>
wrote:
<snip>
>I review it.

Thanks for the explanation.

Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 24 Dec 2005, TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:
>In article <MY7YW9I738709.7481481481@twistycreek.com>
>TwistyCreek <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>
>
>So am I. But I don't think he will either of us. He is only
>blocking 24 groups.
>
>Why not XXXXX at Dingo too? 28 groups and all binaries.warez,
>100's of them or more?
>

He did. I still don't care. :-)

It must be that wrong temperment and attitude again <snicker>

Dingo Admin
dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com

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Harrison Bergeron

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer <nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:

>In article <3u6oq15e20473jgf0l17fssk667iqj8bke@4ax.com>
>Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
>Why block it? If someone is going to make racist posts,
>surely that is exactly the right place on usenet for them
>to go.
>
>
>It seems that you have decided you don't like the subject
>matter of the group and have blocked it. Nothing to do
>with abuse being sent through your remailer.
>
>I thought you weren't going to do things like that?

EXACTLY!! He's blocking newsgroups strictly because he personally
does not approve of the subject covered by the ng. When does
the filtering of the body of a post begin and the substitution of
[Impure Thought] or [Forbidden Language] for the author's
original words? Twisty is well on his way to filling Eelbash's
very large shoes.

Anonymous

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

On 24 Dec 2005, Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>On 24 Dec 2005, Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Monte Carlo) wrote:
>
>Whatever.
>

What if you remailers that allow posting to usenet got together and took
the holiday off and blocked all usenet posts? Maybe some people will
realize how much you are valued.

May I ask a dumb question please? Do all of you operators talk on a regular
basis? Do you talk about what groups should be blocked or not? You don't
have to answer, I am just curious about the inner workings.

Twisty Admin

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 24 Dec 2005 00:50:50 -0000, Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com>
wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>On 24 Dec 2005, TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:
>
>He did. I still don't care. :-)
>
>It must be that wrong temperment and attitude again <snicker>
>
>Dingo Admin
>dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com
>

Holy smokes, is this thread still going on?

I have a couple days off. I have been busy setting up a new PC for my
daughter for Christmas, so I am right next to the re-mailer.

I read through the whole thing and I got quite a few laughs out of this
thread. Some posts were so stupid I couldn't get mad. I had to just laugh.
My mean, censoring, bad, arrogant attitude I guess <G>.

BTW, thanks for not minding that I borrowed from you Dingo. I also borrowed
from Bigapple and Zax.

I really feel bad about blocking alt.suicide.holiday. Especially since
teenage suicide makes such a nice Christmas gift to the family.

I posted my usenet block list earlier. Oooh the hubbub. But, I haven't got
any mail explaining why I should unblock any of those groups. I suppose
some anonymous person will write me now.

Merry Christmas to all or substitute whatever you wish,

TwistyCreek Admin

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Dingo Admin

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005, Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:

<SNIP>
>
>What if you remailers that allow posting to usenet got together and took
>the holiday off and blocked all usenet posts? Maybe some people will
>realize how much you are valued.
>
>May I ask a dumb question please? Do all of you operators talk on a regular
>basis? Do you talk about what groups should be blocked or not? You don't
>have to answer, I am just curious about the inner workings.

I don't really talk to the other remops very much, just the occasional
email. There is no agreed upon list that I'm aware of, although some groups
are blocked by most remailers for obvious reasons.

Some remailers block temporarily, others permanently. Some do both. It
really is completely up to the remop.

HTH

Dingo Admin
dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com

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Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:39:52 +0100, Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga
Remailer wrote:

> In article <3u6oq15e20473jgf0l17fssk667iqj8bke@4ax.com> Twisty Admin
> <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
> Why block it? If someone is going to make racist posts, surely that is
> exactly the right place on usenet for them to go.
>
>
> It seems that you have decided you don't like the subject matter of the
> group and have blocked it. Nothing to do with abuse being sent through
> your remailer.

An exit remailer operator can block any groups he wants; but it makes it
hard as hell to feel confident that a message is going to make it past the
exit remailer if one remailer blocks this lot of groups and another blocks
another lot and another blocks yet another lot.

Are there any exit remailers that do not block *any* groups?

> I thought you weren't going to do things like that?

TwistyCreek

2005-12-23, 8:46 pm

In article <BT1HAU3Z38709.8489467593@anonymous.poster>
Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com> wrote:

Snip
>
> I don't really talk to the other remops very much, just the occasional
> email. There is no agreed upon list that I'm aware of, although some groups
> are blocked by most remailers for obvious reasons.
>
> Some remailers block temporarily, others permanently. Some do both. It
> really is completely up to the remop.

Thanks. It was something I wondered about for a long time.

Merry Christmas to you and yours

George Orwell

2005-12-24, 2:46 am

In article <TJWUX3UL38709.7092939815@anonymous.poster>
Anonymous <Use-Author-Supplied-Address@[127.1]> wrote:
>
> Twisty Admin wrote:
>
>
> Your remailer hasn't been up anywhere near a year.
>
> Look, if you don't want to operate your remailer any more then don't.
> You don't need a replacement. We were doing fine before you came, and
> we will do fine long after you leave.
>
> This superiority complex of yours is tiresome.

As is your whining.

Twisty Admin

2005-12-24, 2:46 am

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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 01:22:38 +0000 (GMT), Harrison Bergeron
<nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer <nobody@cypherpunks.to>
>wrote:
>

I can't stop anyone from going there and making all the racist posts they
want. You don't need a re-mailer for that. If you have those convictions,
have at it. Just don't expect me to provide cover for your XXX.
[vbcol=seagreen]

I have probably seen more deaths in a week than you will in a lifetime.
Besides, there is a personal issue with me. I had a teenage suicide happen
in my wife's family at Christmas some years back. If you want to help
prevent it, you don't have to hide behind a re-mailer. If someone wants to
encourage it, they won't be able to hide behind my re-mailer.

Now I am out of here for the Holidays. Me and my family will be going back
to our hometown and spend the next few days with the rest of our family.

TwistyCreek Admin

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Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-24, 2:46 am

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005, Harrison Bergeron <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer <nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:
>
>
>EXACTLY!! He's blocking newsgroups strictly because he personally
>does not approve of the subject covered by the ng. When does
>the filtering of the body of a post begin and the substitution of
>[Impure Thought] or [Forbidden Language] for the author's
>original words? Twisty is well on his way to filling Eelbash's
>very large shoes.

You are sure assuming a lot from one action. You are reaching desperately
for some kind of "slippery slope" argument, but you sure don't seem to have
much to work with.

Pretty weak. I'd give it a 2.7 (at best) out of 10.

Stephen K. Gielda

2005-12-24, 2:46 am

In article <RWNJIVFK38709.7779513889@anonymous.poster>,
dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com says...
>
> Whatever.
>
> Too arbitrary and too pro-censorship? I don't think so. Care to explain
> what you mean? Or are you that non-stop whiner who bitches endlessly
> because I blocked your favorite drug group? If so, I stilI
> remember you.
>
>

The ones who spew ad hominems at the remop about a blocked group are the
ones who caused the group to get blocked. People legitimately posting
just find another way or politely bring up the subject instead spewing
vitriol. I get a real kick out of them thinking it hurts you that they
stop using your remailer, after all that was the point.

/steve
--
The Missing Amendment
The Right To Privacy
http://www.themissingamendment.org

TwistyCreek

2005-12-24, 2:46 am

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005, Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>It is too bad that more exit remailers do not use Eelbash's method of
>targetting just the problem newsgroups, and putting in disclaimers and not
>allowing personal From headers, but just for those groups.
>
>There is nothing better than those two things - disclaimer and no personal
>From header - to discourage the psychos who would otherwise post through
>the remailer.
>
>Why block a newsgroup when you can make your remailer unfriendly to
>psychos for the newsgroup they want to torment?
>
>If other remailer operators cannot figure out how to do it, maybe Panta
>Admin will add that capability to his excellent set of additions to
>Reliable.
>
Beyond any given temporary name-recognition where currently operating
remailers are concerned, or whether they're fit or unfit for command, it
would certainly help if every reputable exit remop would lay their laws
down both private and public. Put your damn cards on the table, boys!

I mean, what remops tell themselves privately, that should also be what
they reveal in public. I believe that most remops already do that much,
more or less. But I'm sure that we can all agree, that asking for real
transparency is in practice a lot, but not too much, to ask, or is it?

Anonymous

2005-12-24, 7:46 am

In article <apcpq1d2a5sir6batvqbr3vuueli5rkagl@4ax.com>
Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
>
> I can't stop anyone from going there and making all the racist posts they
> want. You don't need a re-mailer for that. If you have those convictions,
> have at it. Just don't expect me to provide cover for your XXX.

That argument doesn't work. You don't _need_ a re-mailer for any
posts on usenet. You certainly don't need a re-mailer to post in here.
Why not block here too? Is it because the topic of this group isn't
controversial?

>
> I have probably seen more deaths in a week than you will in a lifetime.
> Besides, there is a personal issue with me. I had a teenage suicide happen
> in my wife's family at Christmas some years back. If you want to help
> prevent it, you don't have to hide behind a re-mailer. If someone wants to
> encourage it, they won't be able to hide behind my re-mailer.

I have also had a suicide happen in the family. It went horribly
wrong. They ended up being in hospital for over a week in constant
pain before they died, because their choice of pills killed them by
poisoning their liver.

Although I wish he hadn't killed himself, if he was going to do it
I wish he'd been able to find out a better method.

alt.suicide.holiday can be pretty hardcore, but a person of a stable
mind is not going to go visit there and suddenly commit suicide.

Again, this "you don't have to hide behind a re-mailer" argument is
strange. You don't have to hide behind one for most things, but that
isn't a reason to block groups that talk about things you personally
don't believe in.

> Now I am out of here for the Holidays. Me and my family will be going back
> to our hometown and spend the next few days with the rest of our family.

Have a good christmas, Twisty! Snow has just started to fall here, so
it looks like it's going to be a white christmas

I spent the holidays one year in Australia and I just couldn't get
used to it being in the middle of summer. We ended up having a
christmas barbecue. Very weird!

>
> TwistyCreek Admin
>
>
>
>

Alan

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

In article <bl8pq15oo4aerknap9jbkpunel3qnegsds@4ax.com>,
admin^@^twistycreek^.^com (Twisty Admin) wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 24 Dec 2005 00:50:50 -0000, Dingo Admin <dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Holy smokes, is this thread still going on?
>
> I have a couple days off. I have been busy setting up a new PC for my
> daughter for Christmas, so I am right next to the re-mailer.
>
> I read through the whole thing and I got quite a few laughs out of this
> thread. Some posts were so stupid I couldn't get mad. I had to just laugh.
> My mean, censoring, bad, arrogant attitude I guess <G>.
>
> BTW, thanks for not minding that I borrowed from you Dingo. I also borrowed
> from Bigapple and Zax.
>
> I really feel bad about blocking alt.suicide.holiday. Especially since
> teenage suicide makes such a nice Christmas gift to the family.
>
> I posted my usenet block list earlier. Oooh the hubbub. But, I haven't got
> any mail explaining why I should unblock any of those groups. I suppose
> some anonymous person will write me now.
>
> Merry Christmas to all or substitute whatever you wish,
>
> TwistyCreek Admin

Come on and tell us the truth, we know you have been at a CIA Christmas Party in
Honduras. I hear it went down a bomb.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread17967/pg1

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/

Not a troll

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

In article <MPG.1e168f5b85e70f79989c35@news.newsreader.com>
Stephen K. Gielda <steve@packetderm.com.bogus> wrote:
>
> In article <RWNJIVFK38709.7779513889@anonymous.poster>,
> dingoadmin@dingoremailer.com says...
>
> The ones who spew ad hominems at the remop about a blocked group are the
> ones who caused the group to get blocked. People legitimately posting
> just find another way or politely bring up the subject instead spewing
> vitriol. I get a real kick out of them thinking it hurts you that they
> stop using your remailer, after all that was the point.

I agree. Did you notice that Dingo, Bigapple, Twisty, etc., are
some of the highest loaded remailers? This vitriol is aimed at
them. Legitamate users do not have any complaints. I have never
felt compelled to post to alt.flame.niggers. The sickos that do
are the first to XXXXX. The old saying "If you can't stand the
heat, stay out of the kitchen" fits right in here. Those sickos
want to "make the heat in the kitchen", then go to their air
conditioned room and expect the remailer operator to stay in the
kitchen and take all the heat for them. If that isn't abusing
the remailer operators, I don't know what is.

I use them all regularly. I have yet to lose a post. But I don't
find any reason to anonymously post to those blocked groups. The
0.00000001% that do are the troublemakers. Let them whine all
they want. I don't think the remailer operators care.

And Bigapple's added line never bothered me a bit. I like it. It
implies I can't have my post traced back to me. It doesn't
impugn my integrity like the prefix added by Eelbash would. (I
never used Eelbash)

Merry Christmas

CIA Admin

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

In article <memo.20051224135945.332f@veloceraptor.free-
online.co.uk>
alan@veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk (Alan) wrote:
>
> In article <bl8pq15oo4aerknap9jbkpunel3qnegsds@4ax.com>,
> admin^@^twistycreek^.^com (Twisty Admin) wrote:
>
Snipped
>
> Come on and tell us the truth, we know you have been at a CIA Christmas Party in
> Honduras. I hear it went down a bomb.
>
> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread17967/pg1
>
> Lord Cerne Abbas
>
Of course I am CIA. So are all the others. You were misinformed,
the Christmas Party in the Honduras was great. We planned your
sudden, accidental, demise.

Alan

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

In article <Q21JCTEL38710.4113541667@twistycreek.com>,
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (CIA Admin) wrote:

> In article <memo.20051224135945.332f@veloceraptor.free-
> online.co.uk>
> alan@veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk (Alan) wrote:
> Snipped
> Of course I am CIA. So are all the others. You were misinformed,
> the Christmas Party in the Honduras was great. We planned your
> sudden, accidental, demise.

Sounds a whole lot better than the slow agonising demise the doctors do tell me
I have coming. But then they first told me that ten years ago and I am still
doing fine.

I guess you didn't click on that link then to check out the list of Echelon
keywords? They make mighty interesting reading. Words such as:

Privacy
Encryption
passwd
remailers
chaining
codes
freedom
Crypto

But no Twisty, which proves my case.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3939

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:

>
> That argument doesn't work. You don't _need_ a re-mailer for any
> posts on usenet. You certainly don't need a re-mailer to post in here.
> Why not block here too? Is it because the topic of this group isn't
> controversial?

Exactly. I can understand blocking newsgroups if your remailer is
being used to abuse that group. I can't understand someone who is
supposed to be against censorship blocking a group because they don't
like what is discussed there.

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:

> Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>
> Exactly. I can understand blocking newsgroups if your remailer is being
> used to abuse that group. I can't understand someone who is supposed to
> be against censorship blocking a group because they don't like what is
> discussed there.

I have to agree, but not rabidly. ;)

Suicide newsgroups probably shouldn't be blocked, and it seems Twisty
Admin is doing so because of his personal agenda (strong words to make a
point). I've had three very good friends of mine kill themselves, one of
which I found first. Another botched the job and lived for a couple hours
with half his head missing, trying to use the phone to call someone as a
matter of fact. I saw that one too after the fact. Amazing what a 220gr
44 slug can do to a human skull. Even more amazing how much punishment
the human body can absorb and still function for a time.

I've also had quite a bit of experience with "mass killings" in the
military. Similar to what Twisty Admin describes. I'll never forget the
day I was "stillhunting" through the brush and my buddy's chest cavity
exploded right next to me. The XXXXX that did him was good. Managed to
regroup and catch me in the thigh as I dove for cover, from about 270
yards in a moderate breeze through light cover. Lee Harvey eat your heart
out.

I still don't think discussion of suicide of any type should be censored.
Same with so called "hate speech". It's just an opinion, not an action,
and people need to grow some skin. In fact it pisses me off a little that
we can have a "Black Entertainment Network", and it's viewed as a good
thing, but if someone were to start up a "White Entertainment Network"
everyone and their brother would be pitching a hissy fit about Aryan this
and redneck that. The whole thing is WAY out of control and NEEDS to be
discussed.

Child porn.... maybe. It's not a good thing by any stretch of the
imagination. No redeeming qualities at all, but even censoring THIS sort
of speech is censoring. Which brings us full circle to the point at which
we have to decide what types of censoring are good, and what are bad.

Just some FruitCake for thought... have a Merry one!

nobody@invalid.org

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

In article <20051224153257.15AAA17139@mail.cypherpunks.to>
Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer
<nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:
>
> Anonymous <nobody@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>
> Exactly. I can understand blocking newsgroups if your remailer is
> being used to abuse that group. I can't understand someone who is
> supposed to be against censorship blocking a group because they don't
> like what is discussed there.

And another Mental Giant makes his distinguished case. XXXX you
XXXXXXX! Post there under your own name all you want.

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

Alan wrote:

> Sounds a whole lot better than the slow agonising demise the doctors do
> tell me I have coming. But then they first told me that ten years ago and
> I am still doing fine.

Your presence here suggests otherwise. I KNEW there had to be some sort of
logical explanation for your antisocial dogma. It's "recovering alcoholics
syndrome". Just as a drunk becomes a crusader against the evils of all
alcohol consumption, you feel that since your life is in the toilet
everyone should have to suffer. Screw their rights, you're going to die so
they should be miserable to.

Don't take this to mean thats I'm not sad about your plight. Nobody
deserves to be crapped on that way. I don't blame obnoxious alcoholics
who whine about me having a beer either, they're just misguided.

> I guess you didn't click on that link then to check out the list of
> Echelon keywords? They make mighty interesting reading. Words such as:

Keyword lists are useless. Echelon is far more advanced than a simple
keyword searching routine. Target communications are scored on a number
of criteria, and the simple existence of a word or words is a way low
priority. In fact the existence of too many "key words" makes the target a
non-target. All of this is mostly because of silly attempts to mess with
Echelon by people who think keyword lists are useful.

Welcome to yet another example of your self defeating mentality.....

Alan

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

In article <9a60bfa046c4280b487adb0cb69388c1@pseudo.borked.net>,
nobody@pseudo.borked.net (Borked Pseudo Mailed) wrote:

> Alan wrote:
>
>
> Your presence here suggests otherwise. I KNEW there had to be some sort of
> logical explanation for your antisocial dogma. It's "recovering alcoholics
> syndrome". Just as a drunk becomes a crusader against the evils of all
> alcohol consumption, you feel that since your life is in the toilet
> everyone should have to suffer. Screw their rights, you're going to die so
> they should be miserable to.
>
> Don't take this to mean thats I'm not sad about your plight. Nobody
> deserves to be crapped on that way. I don't blame obnoxious alcoholics
> who whine about me having a beer either, they're just misguided.

Oh let me explain to you a little fact that doctors these days seem to have
forgotten. Life is a sexually-transmitted terminal condition and as for me being
miserable, people like you amuse me no end. Juicenet is one laugh after another.

> Keyword lists are useless. Echelon is far more advanced than a simple
> keyword searching routine. Target communications are scored on a number
> of criteria, and the simple existence of a word or words is a way low
> priority. In fact the existence of too many "key words" makes the target a
> non-target. All of this is mostly because of silly attempts to mess with
> Echelon by people who think keyword lists are useful.

Yawn! I guess you didn't know then that Echelon was replaced several years ago?
I just enjoy playing silly mind games with people who are already so paranoid
that they have to use remailers.

This is the way of the Kook:

http://www.insurgent.org/~jhd/kookway.htm

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/

Anonymous

2005-12-24, 5:50 pm

>I still don't think discussion of suicide of any type should be censored.
>Same with so called "hate speech". It's just an opinion, not an action,
>and people need to grow some skin. In fact it pisses me off a little that
>we can have a "Black Entertainment Network", and it's viewed as a good
>thing, but if someone were to start up a "White Entertainment Network"
>everyone and their brother would be pitching a hissy fit about Aryan this
>and redneck that. The whole thing is WAY out of control and NEEDS to be
>discussed.
>
>Child porn.... maybe. It's not a good thing by any stretch of the
>imagination. No redeeming qualities at all, but even censoring THIS sort
>of speech is censoring. Which brings us full circle to the point at which
>we have to decide what types of censoring are good, and what are bad.

Very well put. In the end the TwistyCreek remailer does belong to Twisty
Admin, but I would hope that he keeps restrictions to a bare minimum.

Thrasher Admin

2005-12-24, 8:45 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <FCTAXM6C38710.030787037@twistycreek.com>
TwistyCreek <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

> Beyond any given temporary name-recognition where currently operating
> remailers are concerned, or whether they're fit or unfit for command, it
> would certainly help if every reputable exit remop would lay their laws
> down both private and public. Put your damn cards on the table, boys!
>
> I mean, what remops tell themselves privately, that should also be what
> they reveal in public. I believe that most remops already do that much,
> more or less. But I'm sure that we can all agree, that asking for real
> transparency is in practice a lot, but not too much, to ask, or is it?

For what it's worth, I try to keep blocked groups to a minimum and only
block them as a last resort or as a temporary measure while I try to find
some other way around a problem that has been brought to my attention.

The only exception I have made to this is for a regional hierarchy,
where my attention was brought to a section in the groups' charter stating
that anonymous posts are not valid. I could see no problem honouring a
request that I abide by the charter of these groups.

Under no circumstances whatsoever will I block a group because I have a
problem with the content of that group - either real or perceived. What is
offensive or inappropriate to me personally does not have, nor should it
have, any bearing on the operation of the remailer.

Non-English groups occasionally present me with a problem as it is
sometimes difficult to ascertain the validity of the complaint, even with
the help of Babel Fish. I have, on a couple of occasions, blocked the
groups in question for one month and then lifted it. So far I haven't had
any complaints about handling the situation this way.

There are a few groups I have "destination blocked" but not listed in the
newsgroups list (news.admin.net-abuse*). This, from my understanding,
prevents cross-posting to those particular groups but still allows the
message to be posted to the other groups in the Newsgroup: header. Please
feel free to correct me if this assumption is incorrect.
The" Newsgroups" list and the relevant section of the "Destination
Blocked" list are at the bottom of this post.

All verifiable destination block requests are honoured, regardless of
whether the request is made using Panta's dest-block modification or if it
is requested by sending an e-mail to thrasher_admin@reece.net.au

On verification that somebody's name and e-mail address are being
"forged", messages (purporting to be) from that person, based on username
<e-mail address> or occasionally on the e-mail address alone, are blocked.
I do not block solely on the username.

I think I have covered what appears to be most of your (and others)
concerns. If not, feel free to ask what you need to know, and if you have
a problem with my way of doing things, feel free to flame away. There is
every chance I will take your criticism on board if it can improve the
operation of Thrasher.

List of blocked newsgroups:

dfw.*
alt.spam

Groups listed in "Destination Blocked"

*dfw.*
*alt.spam*
*news.admin.net-abuse*

- --
Cheers,
Thrasher...

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starwars

2005-12-25, 5:46 pm

In article <bl8pq15oo4aerknap9jbkpunel3qnegsds@4ax.com>
Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
> I posted my usenet block list earlier. Oooh the hubbub. But, I haven't got
> any mail explaining why I should unblock any of those groups. I suppose
> some anonymous person will write me now.
>
> Merry Christmas to all or substitute whatever you wish,
>
> TwistyCreek Admin

Merry Christmas!

alt.religion.scientology is the one group blocked by some remailers which I
really can't understand. It's the group over which Scientology destroyed
anon.penet.fi using underhanded tricks. The forebearer of today's
remailers!
It's the group where Cerridwen and others regularly post valuable
information. It's the group where victims of Scientology should be able to
come to anonymously and seek help.

If it's blocked by some remailers simply because Barbara Scheisskopf made a
few hundred whining complaints about remailer users forging her good name
that would be severely disappointing. She's a nutcase and the whole world
knows it.

Anonymous

2005-12-25, 5:46 pm

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005, starwars <nobody@tatooine.homelinux.net> wrote:
>In article <bl8pq15oo4aerknap9jbkpunel3qnegsds@4ax.com>
>Twisty Admin <admin^@^twistycreek^.^com> wrote:
>
>Merry Christmas!
>
>alt.religion.scientology is the one group blocked by some remailers which I
>really can't understand. It's the group over which Scientology destroyed
>anon.penet.fi using underhanded tricks. The forebearer of today's
>remailers!
>It's the group where Cerridwen and others regularly post valuable
>information. It's the group where victims of Scientology should be able to
>come to anonymously and seek help.
>
>If it's blocked by some remailers simply because Barbara Scheisskopf made a
>few hundred whining complaints about remailer users forging her good name
>that would be severely disappointing. She's a nutcase and the whole world
>knows it.

He clearly stated that that you could tell him why he shouldn't block the
group. Do you me want to ask him to unblock it ? Never mind, I will. I
emailed him before about someone forging my name in a sports group. He was
extremely polite and cordial and helpful. I will ask him nicely to unblock
it, but block the name of Barbara Scheisskopf to prevent her name from
being forged (people forging her name is asking for trouble for any
remailer). I'll do that right now. I will explain to him why I am making
the request. We can check his block list over the next few days.

Blocking child porn groups, I'll stand behind him until my dying day until
every last one of those perverts are put away. They destroy lives. IMHO,
that is not censorship in any form. That is blocking the lowest scum of the
earth from transmitting their dastardly material.

You don't think child porn sickos use remailers? Look at alt.fan.yardbird.
Yardbird is a big time child porn distributer and facilitator for others.

Here is a latest post to the group. Note that both Panta and Twisty
remailers were used. This is a copy and paste.

Don't like my position on child porn? Then you are a perverted XXXXup.
________________________________________
________________
Date: 25 Dec 2005 06:54:59 -0000
Message-ID: <UVYLNE0638711.079849537@twistycreek.com>
From: Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Roger)
Subject: Re: A little information
Cc: mail2news@dizum.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.yardbird
X-No-Archive: yes
References: <20051223055511.4886547BF4@remailer-debian.panta-rhei.eu.org>
Comments: This message did not originate from the above address.
It was automatically remailed by an anonymous re-mail service.
If you do not wish to receive further messages from this re-mailer:
Reply to admin@twistycreek.com with the subject: dest-block
Mail-To-News-Contact: abuse@dizum.com
Organization: mail2news@dizum.com

In article <20051223055511.4886547BF4@remailer-debian.panta-
rhei.eu.org>
Yardy <Yardy@nym.panta-rhei.eu.org> wrote:
>
> Scrounging around the net, I found a little information on arrests
> for newsgroup postings of child pornography. The information
> is hard to come by, and not well organized. This comes from an
> article that is either from 2001 or 2003 (probably the former).
>
> 1. Statistics
> In the early 1990s, Bell said, Customs made about 50 arrests a year.
> Last year, the agency made 320.
> Since 1992, the Customs Service has arrested more than 1,000
> people for child pornography violations.
>
> 2. A specific case (the focus of the article)
>
>
> ****************************************
***************************
> On the Internet, he identified himself as thor@valhala.
>
> That's Thor, as in the strongest of the Norse gods. And Valhalla,
> the gold-walled hall that received the souls of heroes slain in battle.
>
> But unlike the Viking god of thunder, known for his hammer and his
> courage, this Thor posted 112 pornographic images of children and
> preteens to an Internet newsgroup touting preteen erotica.
>
> In a mesage, Thor also said he wanted to get the "hel" and "daddo"
> series again. Investigators believe that meant he wanted more child
> pornography.
>
> An informer in Panama City, Fla., came across Thor's postings and
> handed them over to the U.S. Customs Service in September.
>
> In the ensuing investigation, agents criss-crossed the country with
> summonses faxed to Internet and telecommunications companies.
> After several months, and with state police help, the electronic trail
> led them to their suspect.
>
> Thor@valhala, agents charged, was Thomas Patrick Reusch at Blue
> Jay Estates, a mobile home park where Reusch lived in a messy
> bedroom in his parents' double-wide.
>
> The Customs Service also relies on informers for leads, Bell said.
> That was the genesis of the "Thor" case. A search warrant affidavit
> states that the informer has been providing reliable tips to the Panama
> City Customs office for four years.
>
> Once turned over to investigators, the unmasking of Reusch was begun
> using header information from three of the pictures that Thor posted
> on the Internet.
>
> First Customs investigators issued a summons via fax to KJE Digital
> Productions Inc. in Victorville, Calif. The company provided, among
> other things, a billing number and an e-mail address used to claim the
> personal identification number. The account was opened on Sept. 17,
> 2000, and closed a month later. Investigators noted in the affidavit that
> the temporary nature of the account was consistent with attempts to
> conceal the identity of those accessing or trading in child pornography.
>
> Investigators then issued a summons via fax to Internet Billing Co.
> Ltd. in Delray Beach, Fla., requesting information on the billing
> number provided by KJE. The company provided an account number
> and a telephone number to which a company representative said all
> charges were made.
>
> The next day, Customs agents issued another summons via fax to EarthLink
> Network Inc. in Pasadena, Calif., asking for information from an Internet
> protocol address on the day the images were downloaded. Nothing. So
> they issued another summons in October, this time asking for information
> from a subscriber with the e-mail address provided by KJE.
>
> That got investigators to Reusch and his address on Curlew Road in
> Palm Harbor.
>
> ****************************************
************************
> Ok, so you get the idea. Temporary accounts do not protect anyone,
> and any account with information traceable to the poster can be traced
> using the header information. Duh.
>
> Like this should be news to someone.
>
> I note that the majority of such reports usually mention "informers."
> I rather doubt that there are large numbers of LEA wandering usenet
> and taking names. Maybe a couple, but probably not more than that.
> Otherwise, they'd be getting more credit for actually doing something.
>
> Yardbird.

I posted this 3 times through my nym, and it never made it.
Wonder if the feds are saving up for when the patriot thingy
dies off.

I understand that this was some time ago, and that things
change, but I find it interesting the Earthlink did not keep
logs at that time.

Roger
________________________________________
________________

Anonymous

2005-12-25, 5:46 pm

On 25 Dec 2005, Thrasher Admin <thrasher_admin@reece.net.au> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In article <FCTAXM6C38710.030787037@twistycreek.com>
>TwistyCreek <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>For what it's worth, I try to keep blocked groups to a minimum and only
>block them as a last resort or as a temporary measure while I try to find
>some other way around a problem that has been brought to my attention.
>

A noble intention. But I and the rest of the sane world are extremely anti
child porn. Those sick people must be crushed. They destroy lives. You do
nothing to prevent it. It is not free speech and never was. It is the most
vile of crimes committed over the Internet.

You have nothing to be proud of there. Shame is a better word.

It is Christmas Day, and the child porn sickos are using the remailers. See
my other post.

Nomen Nescio

2005-12-25, 5:46 pm

Anonymous wrote:

> A noble intention. But I and the rest of the sane world are extremely anti
> child porn. Those sick people must be crushed. They destroy lives. You do
> nothing to prevent it. It is not free speech and never was. It is the most
> vile of crimes committed over the Internet.
>
> You have nothing to be proud of there. Shame is a better word.
>
> It is Christmas Day, and the child porn sickos are using the remailers.

Yes, Kenny, it's Christmas Day and you're at the keyboard feverishly
posting from your own account and through the remailers you insist you
don't use. That's rather pathetic. Almost as pathetic as how easy it is to
spot your barely literate posting style.

ALMOST as pathetic as your drivel about remailers being used to post child
porn. That ridiculous argument was first foisted by the Cult Of
Scientology a number of years ago. It was thoroughly debunked then, and it
will be thoroughly debunked now.

1. Remailers disallow large messages and attachments. This makes it
impossible to post binary files of any size above a couple K, and
generally disallows them all together in most cases.

2. As many times as hypocritical twits like yourself have repeated this
idiocy, not ONE of you has ever produced any evidence that child porn is
sent through remailers. Not a SINGLE remailed message with any porn
attached, not a SINGLE case where anyone has even filed a legitimate
complaint, let alone any