Anonymous Servers - Need someone to rape my wife

Author

Need someone to rape my wife

Ken Pangborn

2005-12-19, 8:46 pm

Can some one please come to 3980 Orchard Hill Circle in Palm Harbor and
rape my wife Barbara. THe XXXXX needs it badly.

The antiasshhole

2005-12-19, 8:46 pm

In article
<62a4d4866af6e5c78360adb65404b33e@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>
"Ken Pangborn" <anonymous@shinn.net> wrote:
>
> Can some one please come to 3980 Orchard Hill Circle in Palm Harbor and
> rape my wife Barbara. THe XXXXX needs it badly.

XXXXXXX, and people wonder why some remops get pissed. Oooh
excuse me. I am impinging on your rights to free speech.
Sure, this is a perfect example of free speech. Fukhead!!!

KRP

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

DAVID MOORE
"Ken Pangborn" <anonymous@shinn.net> wrote in message
news:62a4d4866af6e5c78360adb65404b33e@ms
gid.frell.theremailer.net...
> Can some one please come to 3980 Orchard Hill Circle in Palm Harbor and
> rape my wife Barbara. THe XXXXX needs it badly.

Ah again we see what anonymous remailers ere "REALLY" for! FREE SPEECH!
In the remailer world this is the VERY BEST of what FREEDOM OF SPEECH is ALL
about!

Proud of this, ain't ya guys? Makes you feel like CHAMPIONS don't it?

ANONYMOUS REMAILERS for the ones who care to send the VERY BEST of free
speech!

The above post represents the REAL core intent of the founding fathers! This
is what the SOLE REASON for the revolution was ALL abort. It is embodied in
what the remailers churn out!

KRP

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

"The antiasshhole" <nobody@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:751b9ed120e8812325de9235994ac4b9@an
on.bananasplit.info...
> In article
> <62a4d4866af6e5c78360adb65404b33e@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>
> "Ken Pangborn" <anonymous@shinn.net> wrote:
>
> XXXXXXX, and people wonder why some remops get pissed. Oooh
> excuse me. I am impinging on your rights to free speech.
> Sure, this is a perfect example of free speech. Fukhead!!!

WHY? Don't you think that kind of FREE SPEECH is the ONLY reason the
founding fathers fought a revolution? That is the VERY BEST of free speech
to forge somebody's name and get their wife raped? Ah that is even BETTER
than getting FREE SPEECH into a country with NO computers and not even any
electricity!

OR it is all BULLSHIT!!

TwistyCreek

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

" KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>"The antiasshhole" <nobody@invalid.org> wrote in message
> news:751b9ed120e8812325de9235994ac4b9@an
on.bananasplit.info...
>
>
>WHY? Don't you think that kind of FREE SPEECH is the ONLY reason the
>founding fathers fought a revolution? That is the VERY BEST of free speech
>to forge somebody's name and get their wife raped? Ah that is even BETTER
>than getting FREE SPEECH into a country with NO computers and not even any
>electricity!
>
>OR it is all BULLSHIT!!

Nobody forged anything. I'm sure there is more than one person with the
name "Ken Pangborn".

Anonymous

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, " KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>DAVID MOORE
>"Ken Pangborn" <anonymous@shinn.net> wrote in message
> news:62a4d4866af6e5c78360adb65404b33e@ms
gid.frell.theremailer.net...
>
>
>Ah again we see what anonymous remailers ere "REALLY" for! FREE SPEECH!
>In the remailer world this is the VERY BEST of what FREEDOM OF SPEECH is ALL
>about!
>
>Proud of this, ain't ya guys? Makes you feel like CHAMPIONS don't it?
>
>ANONYMOUS REMAILERS for the ones who care to send the VERY BEST of free
>speech!
>
>The above post represents the REAL core intent of the founding fathers! This
>is what the SOLE REASON for the revolution was ALL abort. It is embodied in
>what the remailers churn out!

You wrote the above, just so you could XXXXX about it like a woman. You
know how I can tell?

If you really were as horrified by what was written as you make out, you
would not have reposted it into usenet.

But since you did repost it, and eve LEFT THE STREET ADDRESS INTACT, the
only logical conclusion is that you don't care that it's posted again. Why
don't you care? Because you're the fumble-fingered moron who posted it in
the first place.

Please drive-thru.

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

" KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>DAVID MOORE
>"Ken Pangborn" <anonymous@shinn.net> wrote in message
> news:62a4d4866af6e5c78360adb65404b33e@ms
gid.frell.theremailer.net...
>
>
>Ah again we see what anonymous remailers ere "REALLY" for! FREE SPEECH!
>In the remailer world this is the VERY BEST of what FREEDOM OF SPEECH is ALL
>about!
>
>Proud of this, ain't ya guys? Makes you feel like CHAMPIONS don't it?
>
>ANONYMOUS REMAILERS for the ones who care to send the VERY BEST of free
>speech!
>
>The above post represents the REAL core intent of the founding fathers! This
>is what the SOLE REASON for the revolution was ALL abort. It is embodied in
>what the remailers churn out!

Oh, shut the XXXX up and learn to use a killfile, already. And keep it out
of apas.

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

Alan

2005-12-21, 5:48 pm

In article <CQ0VW7A038708.2175578704@reece.net.au>, thrasher@reece.net.au
(Thrasher Remailer) wrote:

> Nobody forged anything. I'm sure there is more than one person with the
> name "Ken Pangborn".

Don't you know anything? Go in sci.psychology.psychotherapy or alt.usenet.kooks
and enquire.

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/

Fritz Wuehler

2005-12-22, 2:49 am

" KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>DAVID MOORE
>"Ken Pangborn" <anonymous@shinn.net> wrote in message
> news:62a4d4866af6e5c78360adb65404b33e@ms
gid.frell.theremailer.net...
>
>
>Ah again we see what anonymous remailers ere "REALLY" for! FREE SPEECH!
>In the remailer world this is the VERY BEST of what FREEDOM OF SPEECH is ALL
>about!
>
>Proud of this, ain't ya guys? Makes you feel like CHAMPIONS don't it?
>
>ANONYMOUS REMAILERS for the ones who care to send the VERY BEST of free
>speech!
>
>The above post represents the REAL core intent of the founding fathers! This
>is what the SOLE REASON for the revolution was ALL abort. It is embodied in
>what the remailers churn out!

The remailers here serve a valuable purpose. There are people in third
world countries who don't enjoy the freedoms you take for granted, and in
some cases the remailers are their only means of free speech.

'Kate

2005-12-22, 2:49 am

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 04:51:04 +0100, Fritz Wuehler
<fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> the following was
posted in blue dry erase marker:

>The remailers here serve a valuable purpose. There are people in third
>world countries who don't enjoy the freedoms you take for granted, and in
>some cases the remailers are their only means of free speech.

Call me a skeptic but many in third world countries are too busy finding
ways to stay alive than to worry about free speech.

On the other hand, the people of Nigeria seem to have great internet
access. I have many friends there who want to give me money. So I mailed
one the other day to thank him for his kind offer and explain that I was
in a similar predicament WRT taxes on my "late husband's estate"....
wouldn't you know, he hasn't written back.

Most of the users of remailers are not using it to further free speech.
They seek to squelch speech. No good deed...

'Kate

George Orwell

2005-12-22, 2:49 am

Anonymous wrote:

> But since you did repost it, and eve LEFT THE STREET ADDRESS INTACT, the
> only logical conclusion is that you don't care that it's posted again. Why
> don't you care? Because you're the fumble-fingered moron who posted it in
> the first place.

Yeah, isn't that amusing.... Kentard cries like a spanked baby about
someone posting "abuse" then quotes the whole thing like he's proud of it.

He's one SICK puppy.

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-22, 2:49 am

'Kate wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 04:51:04 +0100, Fritz Wuehler
> <fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> the following was
> posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
> Call me a skeptic but many in third world countries are too busy finding
> ways to stay alive than to worry about free speech.

You should do some research into the recent development of a package
called "Tor Park". It's essentially the Portable Firefox web browser
combined with Tor and some special configuration trickery that allows it
to be run from something like a USB device. In effect, it's a portable way
to communicate anonymously.

Its target audience is people behind the "Great Wall" of China. Downloads
from IP addresses assigned to that geography and similar are astounding,
as is the level of anonymized traffic that is now emanating from those
oppressed, and "third world" areas.

>
> On the other hand, the people of Nigeria seem to have great internet
> access. I have many friends there who want to give me money. So I mailed
> one the other day to thank him for his kind offer and explain that I was
> in a similar predicament WRT taxes on my "late husband's estate"....
> wouldn't you know, he hasn't written back.
>
> Most of the users of remailers are not using it to further free speech.
> They seek to squelch speech. No good deed...

Again you truly need to research the subject rather than forming your
opinion on what you see in your narrow field of vision. Add up a days
worth of "bogus" posts and messages flowing through the remailer network,
and they don't even amount to 1/1000 of the total daily traffic. That
"other" traffic has to be going somewhere, and contain something, does it
not?

A very large body of people use remailers to hide their identity from the
same net stalkers you're describing. Even more use then to discuss things
like mental and medical conditions that carry a stigma that would prevent
these people from discussing them openly any other way. I even know of a
group of reformed child molesters (if there is such a thing) who post to a
self-help list anonymously and apparently have helped at least some
members refrain from the vile practice. This never could have happened had
it not been for a reliable and totally anonymous way of communicating.

Please, Kate, don't let the shenanigans of Ken and his groupies cloud your
obviously open mind to the real uses and possibilities. Consider carefully
your vantage point and invest some time in a bit of discovery before
passing judgment.

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-22, 2:49 am

Mike

2005-12-22, 2:49 am

'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 04:51:04 +0100, Fritz Wuehler
><fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> the following was
>posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
>Call me a skeptic but many in third world countries are too busy finding
>ways to stay alive than to worry about free speech.

There are countries where there's no way to safely communicate without
anonymity. You don't know what the XXXX you're talking about. Kindly
learn of what you speak.

>
>On the other hand, the people of Nigeria seem to have great internet
>access. I have many friends there who want to give me money. So I mailed
>one the other day to thank him for his kind offer and explain that I was
>in a similar predicament WRT taxes on my "late husband's estate"....
>wouldn't you know, he hasn't written back.
>
>Most of the users of remailers are not using it to further free speech.
>They seek to squelch speech. No good deed...
>
>'Kate

What an idiotic statement. Its impossible for you to know what percentage
of remailer users are using it for which activities. You probably see
1/100th of a per cent of the areas of the internet on which remailers
operate. And because of their nature you have no way in hell of knowing
how many "users" there are.

Crash Override

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

In article <po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@4ax.com>
'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:

snip

>
> Most of the users of remailers are not using it to further free speech.
> They seek to squelch speech. No good deed...
>
> 'Kate

Please allow one thought. It's not most remailer users, just the most
vocal, high profile remailer users which is actually a minority.

There are almost 40 remailers, of those, 15cpunk and 18mix machines are
'exit nodes' and each of those procecss in excess of 50,000 messages per
seven days. The obnoxious one's are indeed the minority. MOST of the
legit users of remailers are the one's you will hardly ever hear from or
about.

*Crash Override
- --
A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

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Alan

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

In article <po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@4ax.com>, athome@myownhome.net
('Kate) wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 04:51:04 +0100, Fritz Wuehler
> <fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> the following was
> posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
> Call me a skeptic but many in third world countries are too busy finding
> ways to stay alive than to worry about free speech.
>
> On the other hand, the people of Nigeria seem to have great internet
> access. I have many friends there who want to give me money. So I mailed
> one the other day to thank him for his kind offer and explain that I was
> in a similar predicament WRT taxes on my "late husband's estate"....
> wouldn't you know, he hasn't written back.
>
> Most of the users of remailers are not using it to further free speech.
> They seek to squelch speech. No good deed...
>
> 'Kate

Hey, I had one from some woman in the Faulklands who wanted to give away her
dead husband's money, so I replied and asked her if she would like me to come
and help her give it away, and take her mind off her dead husband too, and she
could take mine off my late wife. I got no reply. I can't understand why.

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/

krp

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

"Borked Pseudo Mailed" <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote in message
news:0d3ca3fce42d4e9cc75a41dbf8c1b02a@ps
eudo.borked.net...
> " KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
and[vbcol=seagreen]
speech[vbcol=seagreen]
BETTER[vbcol=seagreen]
any[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Nobody forged anything. I'm sure there is more than one person with the
> name "Ken Pangborn".

And how many of them live on Orchard Hill Davey?? 200? 20,000? 5 BILLION?
What do you think Davey?

krp

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

"Fritz Wuehler" <fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote
in message >
> The remailers here serve a valuable purpose. There are people in third
> world countries who don't enjoy the freedoms you take for granted, and in
> some cases the remailers are their only means of free speech.

In a word Davey - -BULLSHIT!!!

krp

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

"'Kate" <athome@myownhome.net> wrote in message
news:po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@
4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 04:51:04 +0100, Fritz Wuehler
> <fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> the following was
> posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
> Call me a skeptic but many in third world countries are too busy finding
> ways to stay alive than to worry about free speech.
>
> On the other hand, the people of Nigeria seem to have great internet
> access. I have many friends there who want to give me money. So I mailed
> one the other day to thank him for his kind offer and explain that I was
> in a similar predicament WRT taxes on my "late husband's estate"....
> wouldn't you know, he hasn't written back.
>
> Most of the users of remailers are not using it to further free speech.
> They seek to squelch speech. No good deed...

Kate - some years ago a remailer operator in defending the abuse and spam
from remailers made the claim as to how "remailers" were the ONLY source of
FREE information into Afghanistan. (Right after 9-11) and before the
invasion. He was BRAGGING about how "HE" managed to get information into
Afghanistan, but when it was pointed out to him that Computers were
"illegal" in Afghanistan he still had TWO problems. 1 almost NO electrical
service at all, and almost NO phones either. Much less any T1 or T3 lines.
In short all these noble claims are BULLSHIT! If you follow at all the
history with the terrorists, and I include them ALL, Al Queda, Hezbollah,
Islamic Jihad, ALL of the people responsible for the horrors going on in
this world USE REMAILERS to carry out their schemes. Most of the planning
goes on on the backbone of remailers who ADAMANTLY REFUSE to assist law
enforcement or intelligence agencies in tracking these people down. They
have some extremely warped concept of free speech. One - by the way the same
people are EAGER to deny to those who don't share their views!

krp

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

"Crash Override" <nospam@mybox.invalid> wrote in message
news:N4NATWSQ38708.7190162037@reece.net.au...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> In article <po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@4ax.com>
> 'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>
> Please allow one thought. It's not most remailer users, just the most
> vocal, high profile remailer users which is actually a minority.
>
> There are almost 40 remailers, of those, 15cpunk and 18mix machines are
> 'exit nodes' and each of those procecss in excess of 50,000 messages per
> seven days. The obnoxious one's are indeed the minority. MOST of the
> legit users of remailers are the one's you will hardly ever hear from or
> about.

She is speaking here on Usenet. Surveying many newsgroups what people SEE is
that the vast majority of posts fall into only two categories:

1. Harassment
2. SPAM

Like it or not remailers have LOST the image race because of REMOPS refusing
to curb abuse. All except for the minority of operators who DO block abuse
of newsgroups and individuals. BUT look among remailer USERS and see those
operators VILIFIED.... Not for getting free information into Pakistan BUT
for 100% harassment and incitement to violence!

Smoke on that reply for a minute.

krp

2005-12-22, 7:46 am

"Borked Pseudo Mailed" <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote in message
news:fe5cf771ab27bcb24957e4790387e644@ps
eudo.borked.net...
> 'Kate wrote:
>
in[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You should do some research into the recent development of a package
> called "Tor Park". It's essentially the Portable Firefox web browser
> combined with Tor and some special configuration trickery that allows it
> to be run from something like a USB device. In effect, it's a portable way
> to communicate anonymously.
>
> Its target audience is people behind the "Great Wall" of China. Downloads
> from IP addresses assigned to that geography and similar are astounding,
> as is the level of anonymized traffic that is now emanating from those
> oppressed, and "third world" areas.

HORSE SHIT! While indeed some folks inn China have used remailers - when the
state secret police feel that the traffic is threatening the traffioc is
blocked and the individual is picked up. I have always enjoyed the claims
about North Korea and Cuba. I find the "fantasies" within the remailer
community so amusing.

[vbcol=seagreen]
> Again you truly need to research the subject rather than forming your
> opinion on what you see in your narrow field of vision. Add up a days
> worth of "bogus" posts and messages flowing through the remailer network,
> and they don't even amount to 1/1000 of the total daily traffic. That
> "other" traffic has to be going somewhere, and contain something, does it
> not?

NOBODY is concerned about that :majority" of traffic through remailers
between individuals. She is speaking of Usenet and the polution generated
from remailers. I have seen legit anonymous posts, but on Usenet for every
oen of those legit, on topic non harassing posts I have seen there are 500
posts that are either naked spam or harassment. Sorry - on Usenet remailers
have a BAD image problem because too many REMOPS refuse to curb abuse.

> A very large body of people use remailers to hide their identity from the
> same net stalkers you're describing. Even more use then to discuss things
> like mental and medical conditions that carry a stigma that would prevent
> these people from discussing them openly any other way. I even know of a
> group of reformed child molesters (if there is such a thing) who post to a
> self-help list anonymously and apparently have helped at least some
> members refrain from the vile practice. This never could have happened had
> it not been for a reliable and totally anonymous way of communicating.

That's bullshit. If they have stalkers, regardless of the name they use
or don't their stalkers find them out almost immediately. Hell they even
find people when it isn't them but somebody else who has a similar writing
style or range of interests. All the NOBLE crap is in the end BULLSHIT guy,
the reformed pedophiles, the battered wives, the poor people in Afghanistan,
Cuba etc.... Ya know, you gotta atctually go to some of those places to know
just HOW hillarious those claims are!

> Please, Kate, don't let the shenanigans of Ken and his groupies cloud your
> obviously open mind to the real uses and possibilities. Consider carefully
> your vantage point and invest some time in a bit of discovery before
> passing judgment.

Real uses? Yes, remailers have REAL uses. NOBODY disputes that. But the
weight of evidence ON USENET is against remailers!

Scream all you want - you've lost the image battle. TOTALLY!

Fritz Wuehler

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

krp wrote:

>
> "'Kate" <athome@myownhome.net> wrote in message
> news:po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@
4ax.com...
>
>
> Kate - some years ago a remailer operator in defending the abuse and spam

They were defending YOUR right. the one YOU abuse at least as much as
anyone else you forging little twat.

And name ONE case where spam was sent through remailers you incompetent
XXXX. You can't.

> from remailers made the claim as to how "remailers" were the ONLY source
> of FREE information into Afghanistan. (Right after 9-11) and before the
> invasion. He was BRAGGING about how "HE" managed to get information into
> Afghanistan, but when it was pointed out to him that Computers were
> "illegal" in Afghanistan he still had TWO problems. 1 almost NO electrical
> service at all, and almost NO phones either. Much less any T1 or T3 lines.

Idiot. I suppose the /18 and /20 CIDRs assigned to the country are just
there for show.

> In short all these noble claims are BULLSHIT! If you follow at all the

Just because a fat XXXX like YOU can't use remailers responsibly doesn't
mean others can't. What you're doing is called "projection" by your lady
shrink, Kenny.

> history with the terrorists, and I include them ALL, Al Queda,
> Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, ALL of the people responsible for the horrors
> going on in this world USE REMAILERS to carry out their schemes. Most of
> the planning goes on on the backbone of remailers who ADAMANTLY REFUSE
> to assist law enforcement or intelligence agencies in tracking these
> people down. They have some extremely warped concept of free speech. One
> - by the way the same people are EAGER to deny to those who don't share
> their views!

Mike

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

" krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>"Crash Override" <nospam@mybox.invalid> wrote in message
>news:N4NATWSQ38708.7190162037@reece.net.au...
>
>
>She is speaking here on Usenet. Surveying many newsgroups what people SEE is
>that the vast majority of posts fall into only two categories:
>
>1. Harassment
>2. SPAM

How many newsgroups were included in this survey? I've doubt that you've
weeded through the "vast majority" of anything.

>
>Like it or not remailers have LOST the image race because of REMOPS refusing
>to curb abuse. All except for the minority of operators who DO block abuse
>of newsgroups and individuals. BUT look among remailer USERS and see those
>operators VILIFIED.... Not for getting free information into Pakistan BUT
>for 100% harassment and incitement to violence!
>
>Smoke on that reply for a minute.

Most remops are willing to help and are very polite in helping those with
problems. Which remops are you referring to?

Zax

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.privacy.anon-server.]
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:19:14 GMT, krp wrote in
Message-Id: <6Rwqf.39433$aU4.8859@trnddc06>:

What's this got to do with fl.general?

> Like it or not remailers have LOST the image race because of REMOPS refusing
> to curb abuse. All except for the minority of operators who DO block abuse
> of newsgroups and individuals.

When it comes to email, filtering abuse is easy. Users can either kill
it themselves using their mail client or send a message to the remailer
asking for their address to be blocked.

Usenet is different. The only way to filter an anonymous poster is to
block access to the entire group. As the modern remailer network has
been in place for over 10 years, by now this would have resulted in half
of Usenet being blocked.

Why just remailers? There is an enourmous amount of flooding and spam
coming out of Google (for example), far more than the remailer network
that isn't best suited for spaming. If somebody starts attacking you
using Google news, should that be filtered as well?

Sorry to say it, but Usenet is not a pretty place with flowers over the
door. People say nasty things to other people, regardless of anonymity.
You've been using it for long enough now Ken that you should have:
a) Developed a thick skin.
b) Learnt to filter what you don't want to read.
c) Stopped feeding the trolls (anonymous or not).

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--
pub 1024D/8ED57743 2003-07-08 Bananasplit Operator
Key fingerprint = 796F 67E0 E890 A0BB BDAE EBB4 94A6 7A09 8ED5 7743
uid Admin <admin.bananasplit.info>

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:55:16 -0700 (MST), Borked Pseudo Mailed
<nobody@pseudo.borked.net> the following was posted in blue dry erase
marker:

>'Kate wrote:
>
>
>You should do some research into the recent development of a package
>called "Tor Park". It's essentially the Portable Firefox web browser
>combined with Tor and some special configuration trickery that allows it
>to be run from something like a USB device. In effect, it's a portable way
>to communicate anonymously.
>
>Its target audience is people behind the "Great Wall" of China. Downloads
>from IP addresses assigned to that geography and similar are astounding,
>as is the level of anonymized traffic that is now emanating from those
>oppressed, and "third world" areas.

China's a Third World country? Huh. When did that happen?

>
>Again you truly need to research the subject rather than forming your
>opinion on what you see in your narrow field of vision. Add up a days
>worth of "bogus" posts and messages flowing through the remailer network,
>and they don't even amount to 1/1000 of the total daily traffic.

Do you operate an remailer? How would I find the information that you
have posted?

As for research, you're right. I haven't looked at facts and figures. I
have visited a third world country recently. What they were not worried
about was internet access. Drinking water was #1. Shelter. Food.
Clothing. Books, pencils and paper for their "schools". Roads. Of
course, it was an extremely poverty stricken area and that was about
four years ago. Perhaps their needs have changed and internet access has
become more important than water.

Oddly enough, I don't see China in the same light. I just can't consider
it as a third world country. Oppressed, yes. But then so are areas of
the Middle East, South America, and Africa... the latter having several
countries that qualify as third world.

This topic appears to fall way outside that scope as the reason for
remailers, in this instance, is not to facilitate communication. I did
not condemn the use of remailers in all instances and if my words came
across in that way, then it was unintentional.

> That
>"other" traffic has to be going somewhere, and contain something, does it
>not?
>
>A very large body of people use remailers to hide their identity from the
>same net stalkers you're describing.

There are other ways to hide one's identity. I use several to try to
insure my personal safety. They haven't failed yet. They don't include
using a remailer.

>Even more use then to discuss things
>like mental and medical conditions that carry a stigma that would prevent
>these people from discussing them openly any other way.

I hadn't considered the latter group. Thanks for bringing it to light.

>I even know of a
>group of reformed child molesters (if there is such a thing) who post to a
>self-help list anonymously and apparently have helped at least some
>members refrain from the vile practice. This never could have happened had
>it not been for a reliable and totally anonymous way of communicating.

Again, there are other ways that don't include remailers.

>Please, Kate, don't let the shenanigans of Ken and his groupies cloud your
>obviously open mind to the real uses and possibilities. Consider carefully
>your vantage point and invest some time in a bit of discovery before
>passing judgment.

It never mattered to me who was right or wrong so I'm not concerned with
feeling like I have to judge. What concerns me is the way that the
bickering is taking place and the methods being used to continue what,
in person, would probably have ended with an appearance in court, and a
judgment to one party or the other for damages.

Remailers are not bad. People who use them to squelch communication are
taking advantage of a privilege.

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783
X-No-Archive: yes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 52
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:39:16 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.116.107.242
X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
X-Trace: tornado.texas.rr.com 1135265956 70.116.107.242 (Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:39:16 CST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:39:16 CST
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com fl.general:62691 alt.privacy.anon-server:428600

On 22 Dec 2005 07:03:44 -0000, Mike <thrasher@reece.net.au> the
following was posted in blue dry erase marker:

>'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>
>There are countries where there's no way to safely communicate without
>anonymity.

And we weren't discussing them. We were discussing the use of remailers
in this little area - the battle of Ken and others.

>You don't know what the XXXX you're talking about. Kindly
>learn of what you speak.

Of course there are exceptions to pretty damn near much anything anyone
says.

>
>What an idiotic statement. Its impossible for you to know what percentage
>of remailer users are using it for which activities. You probably see
>1/100th of a per cent of the areas of the internet on which remailers
>operate. And because of their nature you have no way in hell of knowing
>how many "users" there are.

I ammend:

M"any" of the users of remailers "that I have seen" are not using it to
further free speech. They seek to squelch speech. No good deed..

There. All better now?

'Kate

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On 22 Dec 2005 09:15:23 -0000, "Crash Override" <nospam@mybox.invalid>
the following was posted in blue dry erase marker:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA256
>
>In article <po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@4ax.com>
>'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>
>snip
>
>
>Please allow one thought. It's not most remailer users, just the most
>vocal, high profile remailer users which is actually a minority.

You're right, as another poster pointed out. I hadn't considered all
uses. I was more concerned with the matter at hand.

>There are almost 40 remailers, of those, 15cpunk and 18mix machines are
>'exit nodes' and each of those procecss in excess of 50,000 messages per
>seven days. The obnoxious one's are indeed the minority. MOST of the
>legit users of remailers are the one's you will hardly ever hear from or
>about.
>
>
>*Crash Override

Good to know. thank you.

'Kate

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:11:34 GMT, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> the
following was posted in blue dry erase marker:

>
>"'Kate" <athome@myownhome.net> wrote in message
> news:po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@
4ax.com...
>
>
>Kate - some years ago a remailer operator in defending the abuse and spam
>from remailers made the claim as to how "remailers" were the ONLY source of
>FREE information into Afghanistan. (Right after 9-11) and before the
>invasion. He was BRAGGING about how "HE" managed to get information into
>Afghanistan, but when it was pointed out to him that Computers were
>"illegal" in Afghanistan he still had TWO problems. 1 almost NO electrical
>service at all, and almost NO phones either. Much less any T1 or T3 lines.
>In short all these noble claims are BULLSHIT! If you follow at all the
>history with the terrorists, and I include them ALL, Al Queda, Hezbollah,
>Islamic Jihad, ALL of the people responsible for the horrors going on in
>this world USE REMAILERS to carry out their schemes. Most of the planning
>goes on on the backbone of remailers who ADAMANTLY REFUSE to assist law
>enforcement or intelligence agencies in tracking these people down. They
>have some extremely warped concept of free speech. One - by the way the same
>people are EAGER to deny to those who don't share their views!

Actually, before 9-11, I was on IRC and happened onto a channel that was
used by a young man in Palestine to communicate with university students
here in the US. At the time, maybe 1999, early 2000, I was ignorant of
the day-to-day lives of the people of Palestine. I still am, to a great
extent, ignorant. Since that conversation, and with personal interest, I
began reading about the effect of war on children and families and how
to help overcome and prevent long-term negative effects like PTSD.
Anyway, the one young man displayed anger and hurt. He'd suffered the
loss of his home and family members. He was very young when they had to
move. I've never forgotten him and what he taught me.

I'm very against censorship. I hate the idea of having private citizens'
conversations monitored by the government. I don't think that the
Patriot Act is patriotic. If remailers ensure that individuals can be
heard, then regardless of the potential harm, it is important to
maintain them. If I suffer the consequences, then so be it.

'Kate

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:19:14 GMT, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> the
following was posted in blue dry erase marker:

>
>"Crash Override" <nospam@mybox.invalid> wrote in message
>news:N4NATWSQ38708.7190162037@reece.net.au...
>
>
>She is speaking here on Usenet.

You're right. I was targetting my response to the situation that we were
discussing in which remailers are being used to harass and provoke. Most
of what I see is as you describe - spam and harassment. But the other
posters have a point. Remailers are important enough to put up with the
two uses that we see the most of on english speaking usenet groups - the
only ones that I frequent.

'Kate

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:37:35 -0700 (MST), Borked Pseudo Mailed
<nobody@pseudo.borked.net> the following was posted in blue dry erase
marker:

>Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>
>The answer here is for this guy to learn to ignore this stuff which is
>obviously being used to make him dance. He should unsubscribe from the
>newsgroups where this is going on, and have his ISP change his account
>name. The problem would then be solved. For whatever reason, he seems
>like he is unwilling to do that.

I absolutely agree.
(er.. yeah, improper netiquette to send a "Me too" post but what the
hell)

But it won't solve the problem of other people posting his address and
ads for free stuff online or the reaction of readers who take offense at
being called niggers when Ken's name and address follows. It's gone too
far to simply become anonymous. I suppose he could move... but would you
move to fix an internet argument? Most are not in a financial position
to do that. Nor will it fix the problem of people digging around court
records for more information.

'Kate

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:37:35 -0700 (MST), Borked Pseudo Mailed
><nobody@pseudo.borked.net> the following was posted in blue dry erase
>marker:
>
>
>I absolutely agree.
>(er.. yeah, improper netiquette to send a "Me too" post but what the
>hell)
>
>But it won't solve the problem of other people posting his address and
>ads for free stuff online or the reaction of readers who take offense at
>being called niggers when Ken's name and address follows. It's gone too
>far to simply become anonymous. I suppose he could move... but would you
>move to fix an internet argument? Most are not in a financial position
>to do that. Nor will it fix the problem of people digging around court
>records for more information.
>
>'Kate

If he would simply ignore these things--and, in fairness, I haven't seen
adequate proof that every one of these things is being done to him--whoever
is doing it would quickly get bored and would find someone else to annoy.
On the contrary, KRP continues. He feels the need to respond to every
single message.

And he's just as guilty as the people he condemns. I *did* see an instance
where he, under an old AOL account of his, posted someone else's social
security number here on usenet. It was years before all of this "free
stuff" or "rape my wife" or "court records" too. I think that kind of
throws out the argument that he only does stuff like this because he has
"snapped" after being a victim for so long.

He needs to find the ability to walk away.

Rich

Anonymous

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

>
>Sorry to say it, but Usenet is not a pretty place with flowers over the
>door. People say nasty things to other people, regardless of anonymity.
>You've been using it for long enough now Ken that you should have:

>b) Learnt to filter what you don't want to read.

Indeed. Why should it be OUR problem that Ken can't figure out how to use
his newsreader software?

-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

George Orwell

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

Mike wrote:

> " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> How many newsgroups were included in this survey? I've doubt that you've
> weeded through the "vast majority" of anything.

Blah.

Kenny figures if he argues that his OWN behavior is representative of the
remailer community he can convince a few people he's not guilty of being
one of the biggest remailer abusers on Usenet.

It isn't working.

The fat bastard hasn't researched a thing, and has the mental capacity to
figure out even less than that. He's a pathetic excuse for a "player". A
complete failure, even at lying.

nonalt

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>"Crash Override" <nospam@mybox.invalid> wrote in message
>news:N4NATWSQ38708.7190162037@reece.net.au...
>
>
>She is speaking here on Usenet. Surveying many newsgroups what people SEE is
>that the vast majority of posts fall into only two categories:
>
>1. Harassment
>2. SPAM

You are wrong.

Provide evidence of your specious claim, or button your lip, boy.

Anonymous

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Well she is referring to here on Usenet. How about this deal, how about
>remailers being blocked from Usenet and they you can keep getting your
>SUPER DUPER SECRET FREE information in and out of dictatorships you
>PERSONALLY are rescuing with your FREE SPEECH? Okay Mike? What she and I and
>MANY MANY others see is remailers are used for two purposes on Usenet. 1
>HARASSMENT 2. SPAM!

Thank you for demonstrating once again that 1. You have no clue about your
subject ( just like when you "help" a client and 2. you really need to try
decaf w/ lithium.

nonalt

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>Kate - some years ago a remailer operator in defending the abuse and spam
>from remailers made the claim as to how "remailers" were the ONLY source of
>FREE information into Afghanistan. (Right after 9-11) and before the
>invasion. He was BRAGGING about how "HE" managed to get information into
>Afghanistan, but when it was pointed out to him that Computers were
>"illegal" in Afghanistan he still had TWO problems. 1 almost NO electrical
>service at all, and almost NO phones either. Much less any T1 or T3 lines.
>In short all these noble claims are BULLSHIT!

You are a liar, boy. Prove your claims or shut up.

Notice you said "almost no {electrical or phone}". >>Almost.<<

Are you this lame in court? Do you lie to the Judge, too? This must be why
your "clients" refuse to pay you.

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KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"Borked Pseudo Mailed" <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> wrote in message
news:84a7d2f8a29cf4a805fced1ffe6565ae@ps
eudo.borked.net...

> If he would simply ignore these things--and, in fairness, I haven't seen
> adequate proof that every one of these things is being done to
> him--whoever
> is doing it would quickly get bored and would find someone else to annoy.
> On the contrary, KRP continues. He feels the need to respond to every
> single message.

Small problem with that theory Rich. Moore continues to harass Judy McLinn
AND her daughter even though Judge has not posted to Usenet for over 7
years!
And Stacy Anderson. He continues to make RACIST forgeries in her name and
the Bank where she works with alarming regularity. You just have NO idea how
PSYCHO this guy is!

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"Mike" <thrasher@reece.net.au> wrote in message
news:EXBQ9ZBT38708.9475578704@reece.net.au...

[vbcol=seagreen]
> How many newsgroups were included in this survey? I've doubt that you've
> weeded through the "vast majority" of anything.

Did you ever look in the Usenet admin groups to see how many people
complain? LOTS of newsgroups were reprsented.
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Most remops are willing to help and are very polite in helping those with
> problems. Which remops are you referring to?

Most are but many are not like FRELL. Steve Gielda at COTSE vascilates
between very good and "I don't give a shit." But you are right "most" are
pretty good. But then we are not speaking about "MOST" just the few who
generate 99% of the abuse.

Borked Pseudo Mailed

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:55:16 -0700 (MST), Borked Pseudo Mailed
> <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> the following was posted in blue dry erase
> marker:
>
>
> China's a Third World country? Huh. When did that happen?

Did anyone say China was "third world"? No. See the comma? See the word
"and"?

Your blathering was in error from their conception because you ASSumed
that only third world nations would be repressed, or have any "fear" of
staying alive or need for privacy. I was trying to correct that error, but
obviously you're too thick skulled to "get it".

>
>
> Do you operate an remailer? How would I find the information that you have
> posted?

What I run or don't run is none of your business. It's also irrelevant
because traffic loads are a matter of public record.

http://www.noreply.org/load/

Again, you need to at least make some SMALL attempt to educate yourself
before offering your opinion as though it had any semblance to reality.
You obviously have no clue what so ever about the amount or nature of
traffic passed through anonymous services, nor a single shred of
experience with their capabilities. Yet here you are, passing judgment
from your little pedestal like you knew something.

>
> As for research, you're right. I haven't looked at facts and figures. I

Then what gives you the right to even comment on the type and quantity of
traffic that passes through remailers and other anonymous services?

<rest of addle minded, myopic banter mercifully snipped>

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"'Kate" <athome@myownhome.net> wrote in message
news:lojlq1prl3ad9rbvafao1ngr1i4n5djoom@
4ax.com...
>
> You're right. I was targetting my response to the situation that we were
> discussing in which remailers are being used to harass and provoke. Most
> of what I see is as you describe - spam and harassment. But the other
> posters have a point. Remailers are important enough to put up with the
> two uses that we see the most of on english speaking usenet groups - the
> only ones that I frequent.

Kate I have had conversations with SEVERAL remailer operators who are
concerned about the abuses as we are. They do a great deal to prevent it.
But they catch all sorts of hell from the PUNKS out there who are doing the
abuse. Most remailer use is not on Usenet. Most of that is quite legitimate.
Neither of us were speaking about that. Of course the grand claims by some
to justify their existence are total bullshit. People are NOT getting
unrestricted free info in China, North Korea etc because of REMAILERS. That
is just self aggrandizing BULLSHIT! It ain't "happenin." Nor are they
REALLY helping battered women or whistle blowers.... Although that final
category has far more credibility to it than ANY of the other claims.
(Whistle blowers)

The point is they make those claims as a smokescreen to deflect legitimate
criticism they don't wish to address with a curative. So if we look at the
"truth" the importance of remailers does NOT offset the abuse. It is reality
versus bogus claims.The claims of getting free information into Afghanistan
is bullshit and MORE than offset by the DIRECT AID to terrorists.
Considering that 90% of the communication to set up 9-11 was done on
ANONYMOUS remailers how do you deal with over 3,000 people DEAD to say that
it is worth it.

Zax

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.privacy.anon-server.]
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:05:59 GMT, 'Kate wrote in
Message-Id: <68ilq1pfbj6khqdkpuu2nks2rb8vq8j5a0@4ax.com>:

> I'm very against censorship. I hate the idea of having private citizens'
> conversations monitored by the government. I don't think that the
> Patriot Act is patriotic. If remailers ensure that individuals can be
> heard, then regardless of the potential harm, it is important to
> maintain them. If I suffer the consequences, then so be it.

Excellent sentiments. If only everyone could take this approach then
Usenet would be a much nicer place. Unfortunately that won't happen and
so wars of words are fought and never won: Flame wars *never* have
winners. Anonymous systems shouldn't be held accountable for human
nature and neither should any other posting mechanism.

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--
pub 1024D/8ED57743 2003-07-08 Bananasplit Operator
Key fingerprint = 796F 67E0 E890 A0BB BDAE EBB4 94A6 7A09 8ED5 7743
uid Admin <admin.bananasplit.info>

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"'Kate" <athome@myownhome.net> wrote in message
news:68ilq1pfbj6khqdkpuu2nks2rb8vq8j5a0@
4ax.com...
>
> Actually, before 9-11, I was on IRC and happened onto a channel that was
> used by a young man in Palestine to communicate with university students
> here in the US. At the time, maybe 1999, early 2000, I was ignorant of
> the day-to-day lives of the people of Palestine. I still am, to a great
> extent, ignorant. Since that conversation, and with personal interest, I
> began reading about the effect of war on children and families and how
> to help overcome and prevent long-term negative effects like PTSD.
> Anyway, the one young man displayed anger and hurt. He'd suffered the
> loss of his home and family members. He was very young when they had to
> move. I've never forgotten him and what he taught me.

There is little doubt that the life of the average Palestinian is
miserable. Those people suffer greatly. but WHY? You see many of them have
lived in a pool of lies. My wife is from Cuba. Most of what they grew up
with is garbage. It is hard to unlearn a pattern of lies that has been your
reality your entire life. Why are the people miserable? is it the evil Jews?
The Americans? Or is it closer to home? Their own corrupt leaders and insane
neighbors who perpetuate the misery!

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"Fritz Wuehler" <fritz@spamexpire-200512.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote
in message
news:30d6cae2585fdb5d709327b1159df83b@ms
gid.frell.theremailer.net...
>
>
> Idiot. I suppose the /18 and /20 CIDRs assigned to the country are just
> there for show.

Not in 2000!

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

DAVID MOORE
"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:a47384076f7e81ad90a72a0e04dcd0db@mi
xmaster.it...
>
> Kenny figures if he argues that his OWN behavior is representative of the
> remailer community he can convince a few people he's not guilty of being
> one of the biggest remailer abusers on Usenet.
>
> It isn't working.
>
> The fat bastard hasn't researched a thing, and has the mental capacity to
> figure out even less than that. He's a pathetic excuse for a "player". A
> complete failure, even at lying.

>

Only problem Davey as several remops will testify - *I* have NEVER used a
remailer. And Davey boy, some of those remops are the ones where the abuse
comes from.

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"nonalt" <nonalt@hod.aarg.net> wrote in message
news:200512221653.jBMGrSJF028673@marco.aarg.net...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> You are a liar, boy. Prove your claims or shut up.
>
> Notice you said "almost no {electrical or phone}". >>Almost.<<

Ahem - it was a CRIME in Taliban Afghanistan to even HAVE a computer. They
chopped your head off. GOT IT? Almost no means about the ONLY people who
had ANY electricity were the FEW "embassies" that existed there and some
FOREIGN companies. The PEOPLE had NONE. Pretty had to connect to the net
with NO power and no means to connect! No dialup no T-1 or T3 connection.
Hell they could kill you for even playing MUSIC!

KRP

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

"Zax" <fleegle@bananasplit.info> wrote in message
news:doen3c$ctp$1@bananasplit.info...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.privacy.anon-server.]
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:05:59 GMT, 'Kate wrote in
> Message-Id: <68ilq1pfbj6khqdkpuu2nks2rb8vq8j5a0@4ax.com>:
>
>
> Excellent sentiments. If only everyone could take this approach then
> Usenet would be a much nicer place. Unfortunately that won't happen and
> so wars of words are fought and never won: Flame wars *never* have
> winners. Anonymous systems shouldn't be held accountable for human
> nature and neither should any other posting mechanism.

Been there on this. Comparisons to postal mail and the phone. BIG
differences. First is that if 1% of the shit we see was done though regular
mail, the perps would get a visit from the postal inspectors and a LONG
vacation courtesy of Uncle Sam. And the phone? They have ways to trace
things. If they trace it to your house you lose a phone... And you'll play
hell getting another phone carrier to pick you up.

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:07:34 -0700 (MST), Borked Pseudo Mailed
<nobody@pseudo.borked.net> the following was posted in blue dry erase
marker:

>'Kate wrote:
>
>
>Did anyone say China was "third world"? No. See the comma? See the word
>"and"?

So you were adding to your point by including China and the oppression
of free speech. Did you feel that your original point wasn't prima
facie? "And oppressed" or "other places where free speech is squelched"
in addition to your statement of "third world countries" would have been
enough to explain your generalization to oppressed countries.

>
>Your blathering was in error from their conception because you ASSumed
>that only third world nations would be repressed, or have any "fear" of
>staying alive or need for privacy. I was trying to correct that error, but
>obviously you're too thick skulled to "get it".

Ad hominem. Cute. I'm sorry that you felt the need to name China without
stating why. I expected a logical sequence. Perhaps I've been in
academia too long.

>
>What I run or don't run is none of your business. It's also irrelevant
>because traffic loads are a matter of public record.
>
>http://www.noreply.org/load/

Thanks. I'll take a look later.

>Again, you need to at least make some SMALL attempt to educate yourself
>before offering your opinion as though it had any semblance to reality.
>You obviously have no clue what so ever about the amount or nature of
>traffic passed through anonymous services, nor a single shred of
>experience with their capabilities. Yet here you are, passing judgment
>from your little pedestal like you knew something.

Calm down. Take a breath. It's a discussion not an attack.

>
>Then what gives you the right to even comment on the type and quantity of
>traffic that passes through remailers and other anonymous services?
>
><rest of addle minded, myopic banter mercifully snipped>

I see. Well, conversation over then.

'Kate

'Kate

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:17:32 +0000 (UTC), Zax <fleegle@bananasplit.info>
the following was posted in blue dry erase marker:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA512
>
>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.privacy.anon-server.]
>On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:05:59 GMT, 'Kate wrote in
>Message-Id: <68ilq1pfbj6khqdkpuu2nks2rb8vq8j5a0@4ax.com>:
>
>
>Excellent sentiments. If only everyone could take this approach then
>Usenet would be a much nicer place. Unfortunately that won't happen and
>so wars of words are fought and never won: Flame wars *never* have
>winners. Anonymous systems shouldn't be held accountable for human
>nature and neither should any other posting mechanism.

You're right. I'm glad this was hashed out. I always learn something
online.

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I never know whether to leave the PGP info in or what.

Anonymous

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, " KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
>
>Only problem Davey as several remops will testify - *I* have NEVER used a
>remailer. And Davey boy, some of those remops are the ones where the abuse
>comes from.

No, they won't. Not one single remop will step forward and say that,
because it can't be proven. No one, not one single remop will step forward
and say that. You are a liar, KRP. Plain and simple.

But go ahead. Prove me wrong. Get one of the many remops - I'm sorry,
"several remops" - to step forward and claim that you have NEVER used a
remailer. Go ahead, prove it. C'mon, you liar, we're all waiting.

BTW> THe use of the word "testify", meant to bolster your credibilty, is
laughable.

Just a user

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

In article <doef2v$3pq$1@bananasplit.info>
Zax <fleegle@bananasplit.info> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.privacy.anon-server.]
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:19:14 GMT, krp wrote in
> Message-Id: <6Rwqf.39433$aU4.8859@trnddc06>:
>
> What's this got to do with fl.general?
>
>
> When it comes to email, filtering abuse is easy. Users can either kill
> it themselves using their mail client or send a message to the remailer
> asking for their address to be blocked.
>
> Usenet is different. The only way to filter an anonymous poster is to
> block access to the entire group. As the modern remailer network has
> been in place for over 10 years, by now this would have resulted in half
> of Usenet being blocked.

Personally, I find the original post disagreeable and the work
of a troll. I don't think anonymous posting is the root of this
thread. I think falsifying a persons name and posting another's
personal information are.

Remailers do block a lot of newsgroups because of trolls. I see
remailers blocking alt.coffee, rec.collecting.stamps,
alt.fan.dragons, rec.woodworking, alt.tv,
rec.aquaria.freshwater, sci.military.naval, rec.ponds,
rec.photo.digital, and the list goes on. This blocking is the
result of trolls abusing a remailer.

Why block alt.disney.disneyworld and not a persons name? If I
recall, there are only 4 or 5 remailers that allow an anonymous
poster to put in a name. That is my question. Why do remailers
block groups but the 4 or 5 that allow a name take no action to
block a falsified name? If the post were made from "Anonymous"
it probably would have received little or no attention.

frell allowed the original post with a falsified name from a
troll that intended to cause trouble. Yet frell blocks the
groups alt.disney.disneyworld and alt.disney.disneyland. Does
that make sense to anyone?

For anyone curious or that does not believe me, go to
http://www.noreply.org/echolot/thesaurus and look at the config
files for the exit (and middle) remailers that allow posting to
usenet. Scroll down each and look for the blocked usenet groups.
You will see a lot of groups blocked.

To see which remailers allow usenet posting, go to
http://www.cotse.net/users/drsnoid/results.gif

I am not an expert so don't know what can be done. But, if you
can block e-mail addresses and newsgroups, I would think you
could block names of real people.

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:19:14 GMT, " krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> the
>following was posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
>You're right. I was targetting my response to the situation that we were
>discussing in which remailers are being used to harass and provoke. Most
>of what I see is as you describe - spam and harassment. But the other
>posters have a point. Remailers are important enough to put up with the
>two uses that we see the most of on english speaking usenet groups - the
>only ones that I frequent.
>
>'Kate

Then hopefully you can see that this particular problem will pass if Ken
simply gets the hell off the net.

Zax

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.privacy.anon-server.]
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:32:04 GMT, KRP wrote in
Message-Id: <oqBqf.19303$l25.4141@trnddc03>:

[vbcol=seagreen]
> Been there on this. Comparisons to postal mail and the phone.
No. Comparisons between posting to Usenet via remailers and posting to
Usenet via other methods, such as Google.

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--
pub 1024D/8ED57743 2003-07-08 Bananasplit Operator
Key fingerprint = 796F 67E0 E890 A0BB BDAE EBB4 94A6 7A09 8ED5 7743
uid Admin <admin.bananasplit.info>

Fritz Wuehler

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

TwistyCreek

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

On 22 Dec 2005, TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:
> KRP wrote:
>
>
>And some RemOps might be persuaded to produce logs showing that message do
>in fact come from you with some regularity.
>
>Should we go there Ken?
>
>Would you like one of these so called "conscientious" RemOps to use their
>ability to observe and control abusive behavior to direct a bit of a LART
>in your direction?

The code of ethics for remops prohibits them from keeping any logs.
(Eelbash excluded)

Nomen Nescio

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate wrote:

>
> I absolutely agree.
> (er.. yeah, improper netiquette to send a "Me too" post but what the hell)
>
> But it won't solve the problem of other people posting his address and ads
> for free stuff online or the reaction of readers who take offense at being
> called niggers when Ken's name and address follows. It's gone too far to

Sure it would. If you believe these people participate for any other
reason than seeing the other guy jump when they post you're naive. If
either one of them (Ken or Dave) would cease and desist this juvenile
behavior the other one would give up within 48 hours.

On second thought, I'm not so sure about Ken. I know from first hand
experience that David Moore isn't his only target for abuse. He called me
numerous times in the middle of the night and flooded my email with
forgeries and threats too. And All I did was ask him to explain something
a couple times in a very polite and civil way.

I filed a complaint about the phone calls (coming from a caller ID blocked
phone) and within 2 days they ended. I assume Ken was notified, because
immediately his email forgeries and threats multiplied by a factor of
about 10 for a week, and I never made any of it public.

It's also notable that Ken has had several opportunities to provide proof
to third parties of his innocence, and claims that David Moore is a
stalker, but has repeatedly refused to do so.

> simply become anonymous. I suppose he could move... but would you move
> to fix an internet argument? Most are not in a financial position to do
> that. Nor will it fix the problem of people digging around court records
> for more information.

Court records are public property. If they are evidence of someone's
character then they're relevant to a discussion of that persons character.
It's fairly obvious from reviewing even the excerpts that are posted to
these groups that Ken has issues with money. How many people do you know
that have been taken to court three times (or more) for not paying bills?

And Ken's lie about winning one of them is just that, a lie. He settled
the bill in FULL before judgment was passed so the suit had to be
dismissed. Hardly a win when you buy your way out of a debt, now is it?

That's even more evidence of just how much Ken lies. When the evidence is
right there in front of him he refuses to tell the truth even if it makes
him look like the most ridiculous person in the group. Psychologists
call this being a pathological liar.... lying even when the truth is
better sounding just because you feel driven to lie.

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

George Orwell

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

" KRP" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>DAVID MOORE
>"George Orwell" <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
> news:a47384076f7e81ad90a72a0e04dcd0db@mi
xmaster.it...
>
>
>Only problem Davey as several remops will testify - *I* have NEVER used a
>remailer. And Davey boy, some of those remops are the ones where the abuse
>comes from.

1. My name isn't "Davey" you idiot.

2. No remops will "testify" to anything. Even if any of them would want to
help your sorry fat XXX, it would be impossible for them to know whether or
not you have used a remailer, because of the way they are set up. But
then, if you had a clue about how remailers work, you would know that.

Anonymous

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

Thrasher Remailer

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:
> KRP wrote:
>
>
>And some RemOps might be persuaded to produce logs showing that message do
>in fact come from you with some regularity.
>
>Should we go there Ken?
>
>Would you like one of these so called "conscientious" RemOps to use their
>ability to observe and control abusive behavior to direct a bit of a LART
>in your direction?

There was at least one occasion (see
www.aboutkenpangborn.com/altatheism.html) where he was CAUGHT forging thru
remailers.

Fritz Wuehler

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

Zax wrote:

> Sorry to say it, but Usenet is not a pretty place with flowers over the
> door. People say nasty things to other people, regardless of anonymity.
> You've been using it for long enough now Ken that you should have: a)
> Developed a thick skin.
> b) Learnt to filter what you don't want to read. c) Stopped feeding the
> trolls (anonymous or not).

Well spoken, but.....

You do realize that trying to reason with Ken Pangborn is about as
fruitful and productive as repeatedly slamming your testicles in your desk
drawer, don't you Zax?

Fritz Wuehler

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate wrote:

>
> So you were adding to your point by including China and the oppression of
> free speech. Did you feel that your original point wasn't prima facie?

No, I was merely pointing out the FACT that you're original premise was
dishonest and deceptive. It was a glaring case of picking cherries, and it
needed corrected.

You still don't seem to get it, either.

> "And oppressed" or "other places where free speech is squelched" in
> addition to your statement of "third world countries" would have been
> enough to explain your generalization to oppressed countries.

The statement was clear enough to anyone with a working grasp of basic
grammar and punctuation. What prevented you from seeing it was your
agenda. You were predisposed to discarding the vast majority of plausible
and necessary uses for anonymous and secure communications because you
were in a huge rush to make yourself look completely foolish with your
sweeping generalizations.

>
>
>
>
> Ad hominem. Cute. I'm sorry that you felt the need to name China without
> stating why. I expected a logical sequence. Perhaps I've been in academia
> too long.

Or possibly not long enough.

And I simply don't care to be as pretentious and transparently haughty
with my ad hom. You obviously feel your own personal attacks are justified
because you mistakenly believe you're clever enough to mask them. Sorry
about your luck, honey.

>
> Thanks. I'll take a look later.

You SHOULD have taken a look earlier, before your knee jerk ASSumptions
made you look like a shining moron and you alienated people who up to that
point agreed with and supported your opinions. But as is often the case
when uneducated people take shots at something they have no knowledge of
because they think their little corner of the world means something, you
do nothing but come off as an offensive, ill mannered no-count.

>
> Calm down. Take a breath. It's a discussion not an attack.

It is? So your uneducated lumping of anonymous communications into the
"abuse" bucket was what passes for intelligent discourse on your planet?

>
>
> I see. Well, conversation over then.

Coward.

Mike

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>On 22 Dec 2005 07:03:44 -0000, Mike <thrasher@reece.net.au> the
>following was posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
>And we weren't discussing them. We were discussing the use of remailers
>in this little area - the battle of Ken and others.

I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that Ken brings 90% of his problems upon
himself. He needs to shut his computer off and get off the net, then his
problem would be solved. Or at least, learn to use his news reader
software properly so that he can ignore certain postings.

>
>
>Of course there are exceptions to pretty damn near much anything anyone
>says.
>
>
>I ammend:
>
>M"any" of the users of remailers "that I have seen" are not using it to
>further free speech. They seek to squelch speech. No good deed..
>
>There. All better now?

Yeah, that's fair enough. Would you consider the following:

(I'm presuming that a fair portion of what "you have seen" involves the use
of remailers by Ken and his adversaries, in their ongoing flame war?)

Ken can often be found railing against remailers, screaming about abuse and
how they need to be taken off the net. Consider the possibility that Ken
himself could be posting some of the anonymous abuse, to add ammo to his
arguments?

>
>'Kate

Mike

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

" krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>"Mike" <thrasher@reece.net.au> wrote in message
>news:08YBVS6B38708.6275925926@reece.net.au...
>.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> the following was
>in
>
> BULLSHIT Mike. NAME THEM! Come on buddy. Let's see WHO knows what he is
>talking about. Please MAKE MY DAY! AFghanistan again? How about Iran? No,
>let's try CHINA!!!! Or maybe you'd like to say Cuba? No here's the ticket
>Mr. Lovett try NORTH KOREA and tell us all the MILLIONS of people in North
>Korea getting FREE information in and out thanks to remailerds? What a LOAD
>OF SHIT!
>
>
>
>
> Well she is referring to here on Usenet. How about this deal, how about
>remailers being blocked from Usenet and they you can keep getting your

Sure, go for it. Good luck with that.

>SUPER DUPER SECRET FREE information in and out of dictatorships you
>PERSONALLY are rescuing with your FREE SPEECH? Okay Mike? What she and I and
>MANY MANY others see is remailers are used for two purposes on Usenet. 1
>HARASSMENT 2. SPAM!

And if this is happening, you could easily learn to use a killfile and then
you won't see it. It's your own fault that you allow it to continue.
However, the free speech of others shouldn't be made to suffer because of
you.

Crash Override

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

In article <76flq116cemn2n96qk6ta4ajhc9q4ijh2p@4ax.com>
'Kate <athome@myownhome.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:55:16 -0700 (MST), Borked Pseudo Mailed
> <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> the following was posted in blue dry erase
> marker:

snip

>
> Do you operate an remailer? How would I find the information that you
> have posted?

send an email to the remailer with the subject line remailer-stats.
Mixmaster remailers will send you a message detailing statistics about the
number of messages processed. Reliable remailers will send you a
configuration file that will include the line " Messages Received Last
Week: #######" indicating the number of messages processed in the last 7
days. the number of messages processed is FAR in excess of the number of
abuser's messages.

> As for research, you're right. I haven't looked at facts and figures. I
> have visited a third world country recently. What they were not worried
> about was internet access. Drinking water was #1. Shelter. Food.
> Clothing. Books, pencils and paper for their "schools". Roads. Of
> course, it was an extremely poverty stricken area and that was about
> four years ago. Perhaps their needs have changed and internet access has
> become more important than water.
>
> Oddly enough, I don't see China in the same light. I just can't consider
> it as a third world country. Oppressed, yes. But then so are areas of
> the Middle East, South America, and Africa... the latter having several
> countries that qualify as third world.

When it comes to human rights, China is VERY third world.

> This topic appears to fall way outside that scope as the reason for
> remailers, in this instance, is not to facilitate communication. I did
> not condemn the use of remailers in all instances and if my words came
> across in that way, then it was unintentional.
>
>
> There are other ways to hide one's identity. I use several to try to
> insure my personal safety. They haven't failed yet. They don't include
> using a remailer.

That is your choice. Everybody has their own preferred way to operate.

>
> I hadn't considered the latter group. Thanks for bringing it to light.

Also bear in mind that MOST remailer traffic is very low profile, users
wanting to be "lost in the crowd" and NOT be noticed.

>
> Again, there are other ways that don't include remailers.

For some people, it's the only way they feel safe talking about certain
things.

>
>
> It never mattered to me who was right or wrong so I'm not concerned with
> feeling like I have to judge. What concerns me is the way that the
> bickering is taking place and the methods being used to continue what,
> in person, would probably have ended with an appearance in court, and a
> judgment to one party or the other for damages.
>
> Remailers are not bad. People who use them to squelch communication are
> taking advantage of a privilege.

That is absolutely true.

*Crash Override
- --
A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

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Fritz Wuehler

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

'Kate wrote:

> On 22 Dec 2005 07:03:44 -0000, Mike <thrasher@reece.net.au> the following
> was posted in blue dry erase marker:
>
>
> And we weren't discussing them. We were discussing the use of remailers in
> this little area - the battle of Ken and others.

Total and utter bullshit.

Please explain to the class what part of this statement applies to Kentard
and the idiots that follow him around...

"Call me a skeptic but many in third world countries are too busy finding
ways to stay alive than to worry about free speech."

Claiming you were discussing localized usages might look to you like a
good attempt at waffling out of your ignorance, but that was YOU making
sweeping, petty generalizations based on your limited INexperience.

>
>
> Of course there are exceptions to pretty damn near much anything anyone
> says.

And Kentard IS that exception, in spite of what you may want to believe,
and in spite of what Kentard PRETENDS to believe while he's casting foul
aspirations on the very same thing he himself uses exclusively as a way to
abuse those little pinpoint targets you somehow seem to think make up the
breadth and depth of anonymity.

>
> I ammend:
>
> M"any" of the users of remailers "that I have seen" are not using it to
> further free speech. They seek to squelch speech. No good deed..
>
> There. All better now?

No. Explain your "third world" prejudice and you might start working
toward "better".

Mike

2005-12-22, 5:47 pm

" krp" <web2457k@verizon.net> wrote:
>"'Kate" <athome@myownhome.net> wrote in message
> news:po9kq1tflpj2jkg09l2nppbf7efcro6e3r@
4ax.com...
>
>
>Kate - some years ago a remailer operator in defending the abuse and spam
>from remailers made the claim as to how "remailers" were the ONLY source of
>FREE information into Afghanistan. (Right after 9-11) and before the
>invasion. He was BRAGGING about how "HE" managed to get information into
>Afghanistan, but when it was pointed out to him that Computers were
>"illegal" in Afghanistan he still had TWO problems.

Who said that? What remailer? And when?

There really hasn't