Mozilla Browser - Still using Netscape 4.7x and not Thunderbird because....

Author

Still using Netscape 4.7x and not Thunderbird because....

'by a commodius vicus of recirculation'

2005-07-20, 5:46 pm

Still using netscape 4.7x and not Thunderbird because I can't figure out
how to:

1) Get the newsgroups choices into a drop down menu instead of a panel
on the left so that the newsgroups choices isn't wasting the left third
of the screen.

2) Get the threads to show threaded order new messages only.

3) Get the coloured bars that replace the normal >s on the left gone and
replaced with normal >s.

4) Get the name, subject and newsgroups of the message back into the
message like in 4.7x so that they aren't wasting screen space all the
time.

If these are not possible with Thunderbird --why?-- is there anything
else out there that can do these things, other than netscape 4.7x?

--
"What do you value in your bulldogs? Gripping, is it not? It's their
nature? It's why you breed them? It's so with men. I will not give in
because I oppose it. Not my pride, not my spleen, nor any other of my
appetites, but *I* do. Is there in the midst of all this muscle no
single sinew that serves no appetite of Norfolk's but is just Norfolk?
Give that some exercise. Because, as you stand, you'll go before your
Maker ill-conditioned. He'll think that somewhere along your pedigree, a
XXXXX got over the wall."
-+Paul Scofield, "A Man For All Seasons"
(!PC!)

Doug G

2005-07-20, 5:46 pm

Bill Bonde wrote:
> Still using netscape 4.7x and not Thunderbird because I can't figure out
> how to:
>
> 1) Get the newsgroups choices into a drop down menu instead of a panel
> on the left so that the newsgroups choices isn't wasting the left third
> of the screen.
>
> 2) Get the threads to show threaded order new messages only.
>
> 3) Get the coloured bars that replace the normal >s on the left gone and
> replaced with normal >s.
>
> 4) Get the name, subject and newsgroups of the message back into the
> message like in 4.7x so that they aren't wasting screen space all the
> time.
>
> If these are not possible with Thunderbird --why?-- is there anything
> else out there that can do these things, other than netscape 4.7x?
>

1. There's an extension for this. I haven't tried it.
http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/#ext4
2. View > Threads > Unread?
3. I edited my prefs.js file to get the >'s back.
http://www.holgermetzger.de/efaqmailnews.html#4
4. View > Headers > Normal?
Or http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/#ext5
I use the Title Bar Fixer extension.

Moz Champion

2005-07-21, 7:45 am

Doug G wrote:
> Bill Bonde wrote:
>
>
> 1. There's an extension for this. I haven't tried it.
> http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/#ext4
> 2. View > Threads > Unread?
> 3. I edited my prefs.js file to get the >'s back.
> http://www.holgermetzger.de/efaqmailnews.html#4
> 4. View > Headers > Normal?
> Or http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/#ext5
> I use the Title Bar Fixer extension.

There are several means of reducing (or even eliminating) the left hand
full length newsgroup listing

You can view new messages only if you wish

You can have 'normal' (non-coloured) > if you want

You can display the messages just as in netscape 4.7 if you wish

For help with any of these questions I invite you to attend the help
newsgroup

snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.mozilla.thunderbird

Steve IA

2005-07-21, 7:45 am

"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')" wrote:
>
> Still using netscape 4.7x and not Thunderbird because I can't figure out
> how to:

So what's the problem? I read news with N 4.7x as I like the format, and
the simple fixnews.exe for killfile/filtering. I've tried other newsreaders,
but didn't think it was worth the effort.
My only complaint is that I links in 4.7 won't open in other than Navigator.
I have to cut/paste links to FF.
My 2¢.

Steve
41N

'by a commodius vicus of recirculation'

2005-07-21, 5:48 pm

Steve IA wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')" wrote:
>
> So what's the problem? I read news with N 4.7x as I like the format, and
> the simple fixnews.exe for killfile/filtering. I've tried other newsreaders,
> but didn't think it was worth the effort.
> My only complaint is that I links in 4.7 won't open in other than Navigator.
> I have to cut/paste links to FF.
> My 2¢.
>
The multiple cut and paste operations needed to get wrapped URLs into
Firefox is one problem. There's also some bug where it keeps newlines or
something when I save to a file and then use that file as a sigfile.
This means I have to put the text into notepad and make sure it is all
on one line before I use that file or it ends up taking up twice as much
space not in 4.7x but when I later look at the posted result.

--
"What do you value in your bulldogs? Gripping, is it not? It's their
nature? It's why you breed them? It's so with men. I will not give in
because I oppose it. Not my pride, not my spleen, nor any other of my
appetites, but *I* do. Is there in the midst of all this muscle no
single sinew that serves no appetite of Norfolk's but is just Norfolk?
Give that some exercise. Because, as you stand, you'll go before your
Maker ill-conditioned. He'll think that somewhere along your pedigree, a
XXXXX got over the wall."
-+Paul Scofield, "A Man For All Seasons"

Moz Champion

2005-07-21, 5:48 pm

Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
>
> Steve IA wrote:
>
>
> The multiple cut and paste operations needed to get wrapped URLs into
> Firefox is one problem. There's also some bug where it keeps newlines or
> something when I save to a file and then use that file as a sigfile.
> This means I have to put the text into notepad and make sure it is all
> on one line before I use that file or it ends up taking up twice as much
> space not in 4.7x but when I later look at the posted result.
>
>
>

Use Thunderbird then

Splibbilla

2005-07-23, 2:46 am

"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<anton@vanya.com.lo> in
news:1121967152. cf64fdeda32245675cf1e8540d067085@teranew
s:

> Steve IA wrote:

try xnews? double-clicked links in xnews go to the browser set as defualt in windows.
[vbcol=seagreen]

since netsape was the orignal moz based app (yes?) i think you can do prefs editing. look on one of the about :config reference
sites for more info, but the prefs variable(s) have names like:
network-handler.app.http
if the variables are not already in your prefs., create it as a STRING type, give it a value of the path to your firefox.exe.
c:\programs\fearfox\firefox.exe
in old netcape (?) you might have ot translate the path into the double slash "format":
c://programs//fearfox//firefox.exe

if this deosn't work, i guess you have to shutdown netscape, and delete that network-handler. line with a text editor. or better,
backup your whoel profile before doing this (unless you find lots of info on doing this, "Why even my two year old can do this
while blindfolded and buried under 20 feet of jelly mud!" )
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The multiple cut and paste operations needed to get wrapped URLs into
> Firefox is one problem. There's also some bug where it keeps newlines
> or something when I save to a file and then use that file as a
> sigfile. This means I have to put the text into notepad and make sure
> it is all on one line before I use that file or it ends up taking up
> twice as much space not in 4.7x but when I later look at the posted
> result.

i'm "sharing" the same sig file for xnews, tb, and seamonkey.

Moz Champion

2005-07-23, 2:46 am

Splibbilla wrote:
> "Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"=20
> <anton@vanya.com.lo> in
> news:1121967152. cf64fdeda32245675cf1e8540d067085@teranew
s:=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> try xnews? double-clicked links in xnews go to the browser set as defua=
lt in windows.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> since netsape was the orignal moz based app (yes?) i think you can do p=
refs editing. look on one of the about :config reference=20
> sites for more info, but the prefs variable(s) have names like:
> network-handler.app.http
> if the variables are not already in your prefs., create it as a STRING =
type, give it a value of the path to your firefox.exe. =20
> c:\programs\fearfox\firefox.exe
> in old netcape (?) you might have ot translate the path into the double=
slash "format":
> c://programs//fearfox//firefox.exe
>=20
> if this deosn't work, i guess you have to shutdown netscape, and delete=
that network-handler. line with a text editor. or better,=20
> backup your whoel profile before doing this (unless you find lots of in=
fo on doing this, "Why even my two year old can do this=20
> while blindfolded and buried under 20 feet of jelly mud!" )
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> i'm "sharing" the same sig file for xnews, tb, and seamonkey.=20
>=20
>=20

not quite

Netscape Communicator 4.7 was the creation and sole property of netscape =

Corporation.
Mozilla org was 'given' that source code as a basis to start, but it=20
soon became apparant that as much time was being taken just=20
understanding the Communicator source code, as any 'new' coding being=20
done. As a result Mozilla org threw out the entire convuluted mess and=20
started all over again from scratch.
This is what happened to netscape 5 - it never existed.

Mozilla org went on and developed Gecko (the engine) and the=20
applications Mozilla (suite - 1.7.10 latest), Firefox (1.0.6 latest) and =

Thunderbird (1.0.6 latest). All these are based on the same source code =

and do share (for the most part) the preferences - i.e. what is in one=20
can be done in the other as well.
Netscape 6 and 7 were simply variants based on the Mozilla suite.

Netscape Communicator does NOT share the same preference layout, nor=20
even the same preference editing procedures, and in many cases the=20
'name' used for the preference is a Mozilla only convention

You CAN change the network handler in netscape 4.7, but it isnt as=20
'easy' as it is in the Mozilla based application.

Splibbilla

2005-07-23, 7:45 am

Moz Champion <moz.champion@sympatico.ca> in
news:dDJDe.18775$5N3.8272@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

> Doug G wrote:

i vaguely recall that. very nice space saver.
[vbcol=seagreen]

yes, that's one big reason i avoid tb for news. no matter how i sort (date, ascend, descend, as received) the setting doesn't seem
to "stick" even though the dots in the sort menu seem to stick.

in xnews you set it in the setup (config) or maybe in a line in one of the ini's, and i'ts good forever. (of course it resorts only
*after* each message refresh finishes) And of course you can choose and click any column to re-sort. (standrd behaviour)
[vbcol=seagreen]

xnews has settable colors for each level of quoting. if you drag text to Word, the color of each level is preserved.
[vbcol=seagreen]

xnews. you can use pipes, colons, or whatever hideous phrase, if you don't like ">")

[vbcol=seagreen]

tbird and moz have th little tiny box, giving you choices of brief normal etc. Mnenhy.mozdev.org xpi adds a custom display
choice to the tiny box, IIRC.

xnews has a button that toggles the headers as plain text at top of message.
[vbcol=seagreen]

Netscape 4.7 Look hack v0.0.5

emphasizes "hack" :-)

http://www.supportware.net/mozilla/NC4.7lookalike.jpg

i guess this bypasses the newsgroup abbreviation pref.

[vbcol=seagreen]

nice. those bars are really annoying.
quote that link, with my comments:
------------
4. How can I have the classic ">" back instead of the vertical bar?

Add the following lines to your user.js:

user_pref("mail.quoted_graphical", false);
exists as "true" in tb alpha2
user_pref("mail.quoteasblock", false);
exists as "true" in tb alpha2
user_pref("mailnews.display.disable_format_flowed_support", true);
exists as "false" in tb alpha2

The third line disables format=flowed and is necessary to completely disable it. Without it, format=flowed messages would still
have the vertical bar.

---------
it's reassuring to see that these particular variables exist in prefs. often i'm read about a prefs variable, then i look in firefox's
about :config, and it's not there. after a little more googling, i *sometimes* read that the variable is obsolete.

just double click each pref to toggle T/F

btw, tb a2 has an about :config window
go to advanced [panel], general [tab], config editor... [button]

Thunderbird alpha 2 version 1.0+ (20050712)
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> There are several means of reducing (or even eliminating) the left
> hand full length newsgroup listing
>
> You can view new messages only if you wish
>
> You can have 'normal' (non-coloured) > if you want
>
> You can display the messages just as in netscape 4.7 if you wish
>
> For help with any of these questions I invite you to attend the help
> newsgroup
>
> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.mozilla.thunderbird

-----
more comparing install/update xnews vs tbird (or other moz)

registry as well as i've noticed xnews shows in win's reg in the "open with" lines.

install there's no install. uncompress it and start it up. (then fiddle with setup for awhile).

updates just check teh site for updates to "TEST" version. download it. put it in your folder. run. OTOH, the changes
log doesn't say what's changed in TEST version. and i've never noticed differences.

http://www.google.ae/search?hl=en&q=xnews
http://groups.google.ae/groups?hl=e...spam+%7C+~troll
http://groups.google.ae/groups?q=xn...hl=en&scoring=d

Steve IA

2005-07-23, 7:45 am

Moz Champion wrote:

>
> netscape Communicator does NOT share the same preference layout, nor
> even the same preference editing procedures, and in many cases the
> 'name' used for the preference is a Mozilla only convention
>
> You CAN change the network handler in netscape 4.7, but it isnt as
> 'easy' as it is in the Mozilla based application.

M.C.
Excuse my ignorance. Will changing the network handler in netscape 4.7
enable links to open in FF? Is it doable for a competent(?) amateur? I guess
if it was easy, you would have explained. ;-)
Thanks
Steve
41N

Moz Champion

2005-07-23, 5:45 pm

Steve IA wrote:
> Moz Champion wrote:
>
>
>
>
> M.C.
> Excuse my ignorance. Will changing the network handler in netscape 4.7
> enable links to open in FF? Is it doable for a competent(?) amateur? I guess
> if it was easy, you would have explained. ;-)
> Thanks
> Steve
> 41N

Please dont snip or edit the thread thanks, I lose all context and off
times dont have a clue what anything is about.

There is a FAQ about it, let me see if I can find it.. no such luck

I will ask around if anyone knows where there is a guide for switching
the Communicator browser selection, its been a long time since anyone
advised anyone on such.

'by a commodius vicus of recirculation'

2005-07-23, 5:45 pm

Moz Champion wrote:
>
> Steve IA wrote:
>
> Please dont snip or edit the thread thanks, I lose all context and off
> times dont have a clue what anything is about.
>
> There is a FAQ about it, let me see if I can find it.. no such luck
>
> I will ask around if anyone knows where there is a guide for switching
> the Communicator browser selection, its been a long time since anyone
> advised anyone on such.
>
I think people are only asking because Thunderbird is so completely
unusable as it now stands. Why it is a step backwards, I don't
understand.

Steve IA

2005-07-23, 5:46 pm

Moz Champion wrote:
>
> Steve IA wrote:
>
> Please dont snip or edit the thread thanks, I lose all context and off
> times dont have a clue what anything is about.
>
> There is a FAQ about it, let me see if I can find it.. no such luck
>
> I will ask around if anyone knows where there is a guide for switching
> the Communicator browser selection, its been a long time since anyone
> advised anyone on such.

Sorry about the snip. I had ask this question here before and got no
suggestions.
http://tinyurl.com/amp9q
The only difference is that now I'm on a XP home machine. Thanks for any
help.
Steve
41N

'by a commodius vicus of recirculation'

2005-07-23, 5:46 pm

Splibbilla wrote:
>
> Moz Champion <moz.champion@sympatico.ca> in
> news:dDJDe.18775$5N3.8272@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>
> i vaguely recall that. very nice space saver.
>
It's pretty much a requirement if you are trying to use a monitor at
640x480, even 800x600.

>
> yes, that's one big reason i avoid tb for news. no matter how i sort (date, ascend, descend, as received) the setting doesn't seem
> to "stick" even though the dots in the sort menu seem to stick.
>
The only useful order isn't available. I don't understand it. Why
wouldn't they have new messages in thread order fully expanded?

> in xnews you set it in the setup (config) or maybe in a line in one of the ini's, and i'ts good forever. (of course it resorts only
> *after* each message refresh finishes) And of course you can choose and click any column to re-sort. (standrd behaviour)
>
>
> xnews has settable colors for each level of quoting. if you drag text to Word, the color of each level is preserved.
>
>
> xnews. you can use pipes, colons, or whatever hideous phrase, if you don't like ">")
>
In 4.7x of Netscape, I could just set it to text editor mode and
everything was fine.

>
> tbird and moz have th little tiny box, giving you choices of brief normal etc. Mnenhy.mozdev.org xpi adds a custom display
> choice to the tiny box, IIRC.
>
On a small display, it wastes about four or five lines that I would like
to use for either the message or the messages list. On the machine I'm
using right now there are only 14 message subject lines showing so
giving up five would be about a third of them. That's just absurd.

Moz Champion

2005-07-24, 7:45 am

Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
>
> Moz Champion wrote:
>
>
> I think people are only asking because Thunderbird is so completely
> unusable as it now stands. Why it is a step backwards, I don't
> understand.

Unuseable?
I use it full time and have no problems. It has MORE features than
Netscape (any of) did for email and news.

You can do MORE with Thunderbird than you can in netscape Communicator,
and thats a fact, not an empty promise.
Netscape Communicator (email/news) didnt have Junk Mail Controls for
example, didnt have emoticons, couldnt sort out attachments
automatically, didnt have the extensive password controls, didnt have
software update and so on.

Thunderbird just isnt Communicator, its an entirelly new and BETTER
program, with its own quirks and pitfalls. Its much more useful than
ever netscape Communicator (email/news) was, by a long stretch.

'by a commodius vicus of recirculation'

2005-07-27, 5:46 pm

Moz Champion wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
>
> Unuseable?
> I use it full time and have no problems. It has MORE features than
> netscape (any of) did for email and news.
>
> You can do MORE with Thunderbird than you can in netscape Communicator,
> and thats a fact, not an empty promise.
>
It is unusable on small screens, for example at 640x480. I can't switch
newsgroups without sliding the window size thing each time I change
groups. In netscape 4.7x, all I did was close that window and I had a
pull down menu of the newsgroups.

> netscape Communicator (email/news) didnt have Junk Mail Controls for
> example, didnt have emoticons, couldnt sort out attachments
> automatically, didnt have the extensive password controls, didnt have
> software update and so on.
>
I couldn't care less. I don't use anything other than text, never use
emoticons and can update my own software.

> Thunderbird just isnt Communicator, its an entirelly new and BETTER
> program, with its own quirks and pitfalls. Its much more useful than
> ever netscape Communicator (email/news) was, by a long stretch.
>
I also mentioned that it wastes a third of the screen display forcing me
to look at the name, address, crossed groups, etc. of every message I'm
looking at.

--
"And he did bring them. It took a number of years, but one by one he
brought them here. Except for his father, that old man died where he was
born." -+ "Elia Kazan, "America, America"

Moz Champion

2005-07-27, 5:46 pm

Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
>
> Moz Champion wrote:
>
>
> It is unusable on small screens, for example at 640x480. I can't switch
> newsgroups without sliding the window size thing each time I change
> groups. In netscape 4.7x, all I did was close that window and I had a
> pull down menu of the newsgroups.
>
>
>
>
>
> I couldn't care less. I don't use anything other than text, never use
> emoticons and can update my own software.
>
>
>
>
>
> I also mentioned that it wastes a third of the screen display forcing me
> to look at the name, address, crossed groups, etc. of every message I'm
> looking at.
>
>

On the first issue, instead of using the full 3 pane display, use the
upper three pane display, then all you have to do is use a little
mousing to switch newsgroups

You dont care about spam? The Junk Mail Controls alone are worth the
upgrade.

Once again, you can configure Firefox to answer your concerns about
screen space.

[Thunderbird-->Preferences]*-->General-->Windows Configuration
the second selection should do you just fine, the newsgroup list is
reduced to an upper window next to the subject window.
It only 'wastes' a third of the screen because you told it to! <g>
You can reduce that to a nominal ammount by using the option above, AND
you can adjust the window size to suit your specific needs as well. Each
window portion can be adjusted

You want even more versitility? Use the 3 pane with the upper mode. When
you want a full list of the newsgroups/etc, click on the ACCOUNT name
for one of your accounts. <POOF> The newsgroup/account list is expanded
to full screen up/down. Select the group or folder you want <POOF> the
newsgroup/account list shrinks back to the upper corner!

So there you go, use the maximum amount of your limited screen space by
adjusting the program to suit

*varies by OS
windows
[Tools-->Options]
linux
[Edit-->Preferences]