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OT: Flex Enterprise Services Overview
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| Erki Esken 2005-11-21, 5:45 pm |
| New overview of Flex Enterprise Services was published on MM labs
(based on Christophe Coenraets MAX speech):
http://labs.macromedia.com/wiki/ind...rprise_Service=
s:overview
Here's an interesting bit, relating to future of data-oriented FCS/FMS
apps that was discussed briefly last week:
"...Flex Message Service (FMS) supports real time (RTMP) and non real
time protocols. The channels are enabled by server-side endpoints, and
native client-side support in the Flash Player. A destination can make
multiple channels available to its producers and consumers. If a
specific channel is not available at runtime, FMS would automatically
fall back to the next channel in the list."
--
Erki
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| Brian Lesser 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| Hi Erki,
Yeah, I laughed out loud when I read that. Not because there is anything
wrong with what Macromedia says about Enterprise Services but because
they couldn't come up with a different acronym for their (RTMP enabled)
messaging service than FMS! Maybe they'll rebrand the Media server to
avoid confusion!!
Cheers,
-Brian
Erki Esken wrote:
>New overview of Flex Enterprise Services was published on MM labs
>(based on Christophe Coenraets MAX speech):
> [url]http://labs.macromedia.com/wiki/index.php? title=Flex_Enterprise_Services:overview[
/url]
>
>Here's an interesting bit, relating to future of data-oriented FCS/FMS
>apps that was discussed briefly last week:
>
>"...Flex Message Service (FMS) supports real time (RTMP) and non real
>time protocols. The channels are enabled by server-side endpoints, and
>native client-side support in the Flash Player. A destination can make
>multiple channels available to its producers and consumers. If a
>specific channel is not available at runtime, FMS would automatically
>fall back to the next channel in the list."
>
>--
>Erki
>
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>
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Computing and Communications Services
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| |
| Stefan Richter 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| Maybe they just want to make it clear the Flex ES have a mini FMS built in
:-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org [mailto:flashcomm-
> bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Brian Lesser
> Sent: 22 November 2005 12:24
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] OT: Flex Enterprise Services Overview
>
> Hi Erki,
> Yeah, I laughed out loud when I read that. Not because there is anything
> wrong with what Macromedia says about Enterprise Services but because
> they couldn't come up with a different acronym for their (RTMP enabled)
> messaging service than FMS! Maybe they'll rebrand the Media server to
> avoid confusion!!
> Cheers,
> -Brian
>
> Erki Esken wrote:
>
> http://labs.macromedia.com/wiki/ind...rise_Services:o
> verview
>
>
> --
> ________________________________________
______________________________
> Brian Lesser
> Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
> Computing and Communications Services
> Ryerson University
> 350 Victoria St.
> Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
> M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
> Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
> (Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
> ________________________________________
______________________________
>
>
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| |
| Brian Lesser 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| Maybe, but my super secret San Francisco sources say the Media server
will have to be rebranded now. We could have a contest to come up with
names. Hmm, maybe Multi-User Server (MUS), or how about Flash RTMP/AMF
Gateway (FRAG), or Flex Communication Server (FCS). Hmmm... FCS seems
kind of nice.
Cheers,
-Brian
Stefan Richter wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>Maybe they just want to make it clear the Flex ES have a mini FMS built in
>:-)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________
______________________________
Brian Lesser
Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
Computing and Communications Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St.
Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
(Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
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| |
| Bill Sanders 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| I think in this case, FU_Server sounds more appropriate...
Groan,
Bill
On Nov 22, 2005, at 7:49 AM, Brian Lesser wrote:
> Maybe, but my super secret San Francisco sources say the Media
> server will have to be rebranded now. We could have a contest to
> come up with names. Hmm, maybe Multi-User Server (MUS), or how
> about Flash RTMP/AMF Gateway (FRAG), or Flex Communication Server
> (FCS). Hmmm... FCS seems kind of nice.
>
> Cheers,
> -Brian
>
> Stefan Richter wrote:
>
> ________________________________________
______________________________
> Brian Lesser
> Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
> Computing and Communications Services
> Ryerson University
> 350 Victoria St.
> Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
> M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
> Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
> (Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
> ________________________________________
______________________________
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
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| |
| Beto A 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| are you refering to the flash media server or the media server yet to be =
released for flex (FSS? flex streaming services)?
=20
=20
Brian Lesser <blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Maybe, but my super secret San Francisco sources say the Media server=20
will have to be rebranded now. We could have a contest to come up with=20
names. Hmm, maybe Multi-User Server (MUS), or how about Flash RTMP/AMF=20
Gateway (FRAG), or Flex Communication Server (FCS). Hmmm... FCS seems=20
kind of nice.
Cheers,
-Brian
Stefan Richter wrote:
>Maybe they just want to make it clear the Flex ES have a mini FMS built =
in[vbcol=seagreen]
>:-)
>
>
>=20
>
g[vbcol=seagreen]
________________________________________
______________________________
Brian Lesser
Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
Computing and Communications Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St.
Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
(Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
________________________________________
______________________________
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| |
| Beto A 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| LOL...
Bill Sanders <wdsanders-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: I think in this case, FU_Ser=
ver sounds more appropriate...
Groan,
Bill
On Nov 22, 2005, at 7:49 AM, Brian Lesser wrote:
> Maybe, but my super secret San Francisco sources say the Media=20
> server will have to be rebranded now. We could have a contest to=20
> come up with names. Hmm, maybe Multi-User Server (MUS), or how=20
> about Flash RTMP/AMF Gateway (FRAG), or Flex Communication Server=20
> (FCS). Hmmm... FCS seems kind of nice.
>
> Cheers,
> -Brian
>
> Stefan Richter wrote:
>
> ________________________________________
______________________________
> Brian Lesser
> Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
> Computing and Communications Services
> Ryerson University
> 350 Victoria St.
> Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
> M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
> Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
> (Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
> ________________________________________
______________________________
>
>
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> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
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| |
| Randy Tinfow 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| > are you refering to the flash media server or the media server yet to
be
> released for flex (FSS? flex streaming services)?<
Here's my opinion. Flat, linear video as shown in the Sys-Con piece has
limited value. Video streaming is a commodity that can be delivered by
just about anyone who has an account with Akamai and has 10 minutes of
javascript.
Video is just another data type.
Applications that are dynamic, compel interaction, and take routes
determined by user data - preference, subscription level, job title,
competence level, or spur-of-the-moment information search - are where
developers can add substantial value.
>From what glimpses I've seen on the MM Lab site, the FCS/FMS/Flex2
convergence gives us a platform that will justify our existence for the
next 4-5 years. What more could we want?
;-)
Randy Tinfow
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| Brian Lesser 2005-11-22, 5:46 pm |
| Hi Randy,
I'm not so sure. I'm not convinced Macromedia/Adobe understand what it
takes and/or have the resources to build out a true platform. They have
launched and abandoned too many initiatives. They continually obliterate
APIs instead of deprecating and slowly retiring them. Over the last
three years their server-side pricing for gateways and servers has been
a barrier to acceptance of their technologies and therefore to Flash as
a platform. Their focus on vertical integration and unwillingness to
spend money to cross pollinate older products with advances in newer
ones also constrains the reach of their own platform. I'm not sure they
have the resources to compete in the platform space. I always knew
Macromedia had some real challenges ahead of it, but watching the poor
execution, limited success, or outright demise of many of their RIA
initiatives over the last few years capped by their recent bungling of
FMS has made me extremely cautious. Right now I'm too risk averse to
recommend anyone base their existence on Adobe's Flash platform. Don't
forget Chizen is saying that PDF and Flash will eventually merge. I
wonder how stable the Flash platform will be as they execute on that?
Yours truly,
-Brian
Randy Tinfow wrote:
>be
>
>
>
>Here's my opinion. Flat, linear video as shown in the Sys-Con piece has
>limited value. Video streaming is a commodity that can be delivered by
>just about anyone who has an account with Akamai and has 10 minutes of
>javascript.
>Video is just another data type.
>
>Applications that are dynamic, compel interaction, and take routes
>determined by user data - preference, subscription level, job title,
>competence level, or spur-of-the-moment information search - are where
>developers can add substantial value.
>
>convergence gives us a platform that will justify our existence for the
>next 4-5 years. What more could we want?
>
>;-)
>
>Randy Tinfow
>IMAGE PLANT
>
>
>
>
>
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>=---------------------------------------------------------
>
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
>
--
________________________________________
______________________________
Brian Lesser
Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
Computing and Communications Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St.
Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
(Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
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| |
| Merrill, Jason 2005-11-22, 5:46 pm |
| Yeah, I think Macromedia Central is a good example of what you're
talking about.
Jason Merrill | E-Learning Solutions | icfconsulting.com
[vbcol=seagreen]
have[vbcol=seagreen]
obliterate[vbcol=seagreen]
been[vbcol=seagreen]
as[vbcol=seagreen]
they[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
has[vbcol=seagreen]
by[vbcol=seagreen]
of[vbcol=seagreen]
where[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
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| Randy Tinfow 2005-11-22, 5:46 pm |
| >Right now I'm too risk averse to recommend anyone base their existence
on Adobe's Flash platform.<
I agree that the devil is in the details - the execution. But the
vision, albeit murky, has great promise. =20
RT
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| Beto A 2005-11-22, 5:46 pm |
| When you look at all the other software manufactures Microsoft, Sun, etc.=
.. they have all had their abandoned products. Sooner or later advancement=
leads to increasingly difficult and costly backwards compatibility. Und=
er the same breath it is obvious that many products where created/abandon=
ed/priced/marketed without the necissary research. The FMS issue we are a=
ll facing directly reflects someone who was sleeping at the wheel interna=
lly (Homer?).
=20
I, like Randy, see great promise with the current flash model going fow=
ard. I am not too convinced about the pdf/flash thing seems like a lot of=
hype. If they did try and integrate pdf, I have an easier time visualiz=
ing flash paper on steroids than actual cumbersome hybrid pdf/swf format =
..
=20
Beto
Randy Tinfow <tinfow-PMb9m0z8LQpWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>Right now I'm too risk averse to recommend anyone base their existence
on Adobe's Flash platform.<
I agree that the devil is in the details - the execution. But the
vision, albeit murky, has great promise.=20
RT
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| |
| Jim Phelan 2005-11-23, 7:45 am |
| Randy,
I appreciate your comments. As a person who is in some way responsible for
the "sys-con piece" I think I have a little bit to add.
Can you reproduce the archived version of the "sys-con piece" using any
other technology? Yes you can. You can put the video in a box and take those
beautiful vector slides and convert them to artifact ridden jpegs? Yes. Did
you watch it live and ask questions of the speakers in realtime? Did you
respond to live polling?
I think you're only seeing half of what Flash has to offer.
At first look, this "piece" is simple. Video, swf slides, and that's it. We
meant it to be that way. Our applications that offer whiteboarding, screen
sharing, and a host of other interactive elements aren't effective in this
scenario. But, in many other scenarios that our solutions address, this kind
of responsive interactivity is very effective.
Right now, you can't do this with other technologies without a lot of work
and lot of viewers who can't participate. FMS offers you the whole package
to develop what you choose. It's an application server that can be targeted
at almost anyone.
Most companies who do live webcasts have a multiperson technical support
staff. Our live technical support is present, but virtually useless. We
rarely have a problem with people not being able to watch our events. This
is due to the fact that we designed our software to meet the needs of most
users, but it's also due to the fact that Flash is inherently supported by
most personal computers.
In the future, this might change. There will probably be better ways to
deliver live and, subsequently, archived media in a way that the greatest
percentage of your users can view it. However, as it stands right now, the
most effective way is using Flash and Flash Media Server.
I also challenge the notion you presented of "limited value". How else would
you present a panel of industry experts explaining their respective
products? Should it have interactive buttons that let you buy the products
in realtime? Could that possibly be cost effective for a company sponsoring
such an initiative? Or is it possible that a little more value (meaning
accessibility and platform independence) is the most important thing that
tbis project could offer? Since 5/6th of the panel members work for J2EE App
server companies, isn't it possible that a large majority of viewers will be
excited to see a webcast they can finally watch on their linux machines?
I applaud your appreciation of what can be done using flash, but I compel
you to look at what is being done in a different light. There is more here
than simple appearances.
Jim (Stream57)
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Randy Tinfow
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:39 AM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: RE: [FlashComm] OT: Flex Enterprise Services Overview
> are you refering to the flash media server or the media server yet to
be
> released for flex (FSS? flex streaming services)?<
Here's my opinion. Flat, linear video as shown in the Sys-Con piece has
limited value. Video streaming is a commodity that can be delivered by
just about anyone who has an account with Akamai and has 10 minutes of
javascript.
Video is just another data type.
Applications that are dynamic, compel interaction, and take routes
determined by user data - preference, subscription level, job title,
competence level, or spur-of-the-moment information search - are where
developers can add substantial value.
>From what glimpses I've seen on the MM Lab site, the FCS/FMS/Flex2
convergence gives us a platform that will justify our existence for the
next 4-5 years. What more could we want?
;-)
Randy Tinfow
IMAGE PLANT
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| |
| Dario De Agostini 2005-11-23, 7:45 am |
| Beto A wrote:
>When you look at all the other software manufactures Microsoft, Sun, etc.. they have all had their abandoned products.
>
there is a huge difference in the way the products have been abandoned
(and why they have been abandoned) from other manufacturers.
Like Brian said MM shown too many times they are not able to give ANY
developer a "secure" platform.
MM is a big company but act like they are not.
Central is an example. Multi user server is another... and there are SO
MANY of them.
The best thing is that they (almost) never died because they were not
interesting or useful in the market. They have been killed by BAD
management from MM.
Right now FMS/flash is still a good product/platform... but , seriously,
who wants to base their business on this ?
It's clear it's something who could be dropped just after some month...
(in addition to the fact that known critical bugs are not fixed in
time... or not fixed at all).
and, come on... don't act like there is NO alternative to flash/fms...
there is more than one.
Of course we all consider fms/flash the best one but we are here to work
and survive not just to play with a "new toy".
let's bet fms pricing won't be fixed and that after a long agony (1
year?) this product will be dropped because not "productive" ?
-rant mode off
Dario De Agostini
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| |
| Beto A 2005-11-23, 7:45 am |
| That reminds me.... any body with licensing updates???
Dario De Agostini <dario-GCN6p6BpY0//wltNWqQaag@public.gmane.org> wrote: Beto A wrote:
>When you look at all the other software manufactures Microsoft, Sun, etc=
... they have all had their abandoned products.=20
>
there is a huge difference in the way the products have been abandoned=20
(and why they have been abandoned) from other manufacturers.
Like Brian said MM shown too many times they are not able to give ANY=20
developer a "secure" platform.
MM is a big company but act like they are not.
Central is an example. Multi user server is another... and there are SO=20
MANY of them.
The best thing is that they (almost) never died because they were not=20
interesting or useful in the market. They have been killed by BAD=20
management from MM.
Right now FMS/flash is still a good product/platform... but , seriously,=20
who wants to base their business on this ?
It's clear it's something who could be dropped just after some month...
(in addition to the fact that known critical bugs are not fixed in=20
time... or not fixed at all).
and, come on... don't act like there is NO alternative to flash/fms...=20
there is more than one.
Of course we all consider fms/flash the best one but we are here to work=20
and survive not just to play with a "new toy".
let's bet fms pricing won't be fixed and that after a long agony (1=20
year?) this product will be dropped because not "productive" ?
-rant mode off
Dario De Agostini
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---------------------------------
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| |
| Naicu Octavian 2005-11-23, 7:45 am |
| =20
>Let's bet fms pricing won't be fixed and that after a long agony (1=20
>year?) this product will be dropped because not "productive" ?
This remembers me of the joke involving about the US and China's economie=
s, in which, at a canoe contest the Chineese put more men to paddle the c=
anoe while the US put more managers in to supervise the paddler. Of cours=
e the US looses so the managers fire the paddler because he was not stron=
g enough to compete with 12 chinesee and they have a party to celelbrate =
the fact that they have found why they loose. Macromedia can be considere=
d in the same situation right now.=20
=20
Dario De Agostini <dario-GCN6p6BpY0//wltNWqQaag@public.gmane.org> wrote: Beto A wrote:
>When you look at all the other software manufactures Microsoft, Sun, etc=
... they have all had their abandoned products.=20
>
there is a huge difference in the way the products have been abandoned=20
(and why they have been abandoned) from other manufacturers.
Like Brian said MM shown too many times they are not able to give ANY=20
developer a "secure" platform.
MM is a big company but act like they are not.
Central is an example. Multi user server is another... and there are SO=20
MANY of them.
The best thing is that they (almost) never died because they were not=20
interesting or useful in the market. They have been killed by BAD=20
management from MM.
Right now FMS/flash is still a good product/platform... but , seriously,=20
who wants to base their business on this ?
It's clear it's something who could be dropped just after some month...
(in addition to the fact that known critical bugs are not fixed in=20
time... or not fixed at all).
and, come on... don't act like there is NO alternative to flash/fms...=20
there is more than one.
Of course we all consider fms/flash the best one but we are here to work=20
and survive not just to play with a "new toy".
let's bet fms pricing won't be fixed and that after a long agony (1=20
year?) this product will be dropped because not "productive" ?
-rant mode off
Dario De Agostini
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---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. =20
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| Randy Tinfow 2005-11-23, 7:45 am |
| > I also challenge the notion you presented of "limited value". How else
would you present a panel of industry experts explaining their
respective products?<
I completely agree with everything you've said. We preach the same
message every day. I didn't get too far in the piece, but all I saw was
a streaming video with a static slide for the first few minutes. I'm
certain that your app can deliver far more than a linear presentation,
otherwise people would simply use WMS.
As for what can of interactivity to provide, that is the multi-million
dollar question that jacks me out of bed in the wee hours.
RT=20
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