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Home > Archive > Macromedia Flash Server > April 2005 > bitrate and keyframes for fcs
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bitrate and keyframes for fcs
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| Lane Good 2005-04-16, 5:45 pm |
| I notice on Sorenson Squeeze 4 that ALL of the flv streaming presets
are using constant bitrate and 300 keyframe interval. Only on the
progressive presets are they using 2 pass variable. On the small
progressive they still leave keyframes at 300 and adjust these to 55 in
the medium and large progressive presets.
I want to do streaming. Not live streaming. Why would I use a constant
bitrate in this case. Why wouldn't I adjust the keyframes to something
like 30 or 60?
Lane Good
lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
http://www.fastlanestudios.com
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| Stefan Richter 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| Not sure about keyframes but always go for 2 pass variable if you can.
Stefan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Lane Good
> Sent: 16 April 2005 15:03
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>
> I notice on Sorenson Squeeze 4 that ALL of the flv streaming
> presets are using constant bitrate and 300 keyframe interval.
> Only on the progressive presets are they using 2 pass
> variable. On the small progressive they still leave keyframes
> at 300 and adjust these to 55 in the medium and large
> progressive presets.
>
> I want to do streaming. Not live streaming. Why would I use a
> constant bitrate in this case. Why wouldn't I adjust the
> keyframes to something like 30 or 60?
>
> Lane Good
> lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
> http://www.fastlanestudios.com
>
>
>
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> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
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| |
| Graeme Bull 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| Do not use 2 pass variable if your footage lacks a lot of movement. It will
create larger files with less quality. Use 1 pass CBR.
-Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Stefan Richter
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:02 AM
To: 'FlashComm Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
Not sure about keyframes but always go for 2 pass variable if you can.
Stefan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Lane Good
> Sent: 16 April 2005 15:03
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>
> I notice on Sorenson Squeeze 4 that ALL of the flv streaming
> presets are using constant bitrate and 300 keyframe interval.
> Only on the progressive presets are they using 2 pass
> variable. On the small progressive they still leave keyframes
> at 300 and adjust these to 55 in the medium and large
> progressive presets.
>
> I want to do streaming. Not live streaming. Why would I use a
> constant bitrate in this case. Why wouldn't I adjust the
> keyframes to something like 30 or 60?
>
> Lane Good
> lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
> http://www.fastlanestudios.com
>
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------
To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
=-----------------------------------------------------------
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| |
| Randy Tinfow 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| Graeme -
That is not my experience. Just today I compressed a 20 second clip,
consisting of 2 titles fading up and down on a static background.
720x540x15fps, 2 pass VBR set at 1112 a/v data rate. You'd expect a
2.8MB file, but the file size is less than 1.6MB. This is pretty
common.
>From my experience, 2-pass in Sorenson often makes the files smaller.
RT
(This is not an endorsement of Squeeze, which has some glaring
inadequacies, nor Sorenson, for whom I've lost respect.) =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org [mailto:flashcomm-
> bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Graeme Bull
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 3:13 PM
> To: 'FlashComm Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>=20
> Do not use 2 pass variable if your footage lacks a lot of movement.
It
> will
> create larger files with less quality. Use 1 pass CBR.
>=20
> -Graeme
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Stefan
> Richter
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:02 AM
> To: 'FlashComm Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>=20
>=20
> Not sure about keyframes but always go for 2 pass variable if you can.
>=20
> Stefan
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20
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| |
| Randy Tinfow 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| >You'd expect a 2.8MB file, but the file size is less than 1.6MB.<
Actually 1.393 MB.
RT
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| Graeme Bull 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| hmm, experience varies then I guess. I've experienced the opposite at
times.
and to be honest I was pretty surprised, but I thought at that time, this is
one of those
times when you don't use VBR. It was interesting to say the least.
-Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Randy Tinfow
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:49 AM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: RE: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>You'd expect a 2.8MB file, but the file size is less than 1.6MB.<
Actually 1.393 MB.
RT
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| |
| Lane Good 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| So can any give me a recommended setting. I want to reach a broadband
audience with short non-live videos (under 1 minute) with moderate
movement - camera was always on tripod, but more than talking head
stuff. No pans or tilts. What video bitrate? Constant or 2pass
variable? Why is this setting better than the Sorenson Squeeze 4
preset?
On Apr 17, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Graeme Bull wrote:
> hmm, experience varies then I guess. I've experienced the opposite at
> times.
>
> and to be honest I was pretty surprised, but I thought at that time,
> this is
> one of those
> times when you don't use VBR. It was interesting to say the least.
>
> -Graeme
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Randy
> Tinfow
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:49 AM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>
>
>
> Actually 1.393 MB.
>
>
> RT
>
>
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> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
Lane Good
lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
http://www.fastlanestudios.com
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| |
| Randy Tinfow 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| No self-respecting compressionist should answer this without the following:
1. Your bandwith target. You might consider broadband 100k, 200k, 300k, 400k, etc.
2. Is size or frame rate more important?
3. What type of sound? Voice only? VO and music? Music Video? Orchestral?
For a client where image quality is important, narration quality less important, footage similar to what you describe, we use the following:
288x216x15fps FLV
220kbps video
24kpbs MP3 audio
2 pass VBR
image smoothing enabled
light noise reduction enabled
push the slider about two thirds towards frequent keyframes for key changes
I'm not close to a Squeeze workstation, so that's about the best I can do from memory.
RT
obviously I'm not self-respecting ;-)
________________________________
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org on behalf of Lane Good
Sent: Sun 4/17/2005 5:49 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
So can any give me a recommended setting. I want to reach a broadband
audience with short non-live videos (under 1 minute) with moderate
movement - camera was always on tripod, but more than talking head
stuff. No pans or tilts. What video bitrate? Constant or 2pass
variable? Why is this setting better than the Sorenson Squeeze 4
preset?
On Apr 17, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Graeme Bull wrote:
> hmm, experience varies then I guess. I've experienced the opposite at
> times.
>
> and to be honest I was pretty surprised, but I thought at that time,
> this is
> one of those
> times when you don't use VBR. It was interesting to say the least.
>
> -Graeme
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Randy
> Tinfow
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:49 AM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>
>
>
> Actually 1.393 MB.
>
>
> RT
>
>
> =---------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =---------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
Lane Good
lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
http://www.fastlanestudios.com
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| |
| Lane Good 2005-04-17, 5:45 pm |
| Thanks!
On Apr 17, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Randy Tinfow wrote:
> No self-respecting compressionist should answer this without the
> following:
>
> 1. Your bandwith target. You might consider broadband 100k, 200k,
> 300k, 400k, etc.
> 2. Is size or frame rate more important?
> 3. What type of sound? Voice only? VO and music? Music Video?
> Orchestral?
>
> For a client where image quality is important, narration quality less
> important, footage similar to what you describe, we use the following:
>
> 288x216x15fps FLV
> 220kbps video
> 24kpbs MP3 audio
> 2 pass VBR
> image smoothing enabled
> light noise reduction enabled
> push the slider about two thirds towards frequent keyframes for key
> changes
>
> I'm not close to a Squeeze workstation, so that's about the best I can
> do from memory.
>
>
> RT
>
> obviously I'm not self-respecting ;-)
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org on behalf of Lane Good
> Sent: Sun 4/17/2005 5:49 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] bitrate and keyframes for fcs
>
>
>
> So can any give me a recommended setting. I want to reach a broadband
> audience with short non-live videos (under 1 minute) with moderate
> movement - camera was always on tripod, but more than talking head
> stuff. No pans or tilts. What video bitrate? Constant or 2pass
> variable? Why is this setting better than the Sorenson Squeeze 4
> preset?
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Graeme Bull wrote:
>
>
> Lane Good
> lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
> http://www.fastlanestudios.com
>
>
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
Lane Good
lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
http://www.fastlanestudios.com
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| |
| Jeremy Rodgers 2005-04-18, 5:45 pm |
| I have one thought to add to this discussion. If this is crazy plz
tell me - I am new to FCS.
If your client-side player has a 'scrubber' so that you need to use
the seek ability, then there is an issue of keyframe frequency. If
not I think that keyframe%300 is ok since the frames play in order.
Forcing FCS to use the EnhancedSeek function (Application.xml false by
default) should allow for smaller file size if keyframes are set to
300 without requiring the user to sit through x seconds of
nothingness.
This might be heavy on the server (anyone know how bad?) so if there
is a lot of seeking going on and a lot of clients it might be worth
the extra file size to reduce keyframe 'seek lag' while taking it easy
on the server.
Jeremy.
On 4/17/05, Lane Good <lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Thanks!
> On Apr 17, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Randy Tinfow wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Lane Good
> lane-X0N0neLMqCA5GlM4cBkWCkEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org
> http://www.fastlanestudios.com
>=20
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
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