Macromedia Flash Server - Live Streaming

Author

Live Streaming

Simon Skrødal

2005-05-30, 2:45 am

Dear All,=20

I have some findings, and some questions, related to live streaming. I =
thought it might be a useful resource for myself, and others thinking =
about doing the same thing.

My company is looking into streaming a live event in a couple of months. =
It will be a 6 hour continuos stream to about 5 end points (clients) =
around the country. The 5 streams need to be of a high resolution, as =
the clients will project the video onto a large screen.

FCS is probably the most expensive and limited option (with regards to =
bandwidth licensing), but I also think it's the most elegant and =
reliable.=20

Until today, I have only been playing around with live streams using a =
webcam, and I have put together a neat broadcaster application, which =
lets me change camera and mic settings at real time. Everything works a =
treat, although the highest resolution supported by the webcam is =
352x264.

So, today I have a DV cam in my office, and thought I'd hook it up and =
see what resolutions I can stream and how much bandwidth I have to =
surrender to make the video looking smooth.=20

My findings:

1. The DV camera in question, a Canon MV730i, was picked up by the flash =
player, but no image came through when selected.=20

** Solution: I found this entry in Waldo Smeets' blog: =
http://www.waldosmeets.com/index.cfm?entryID=3D489

- Basically, to get the DV capture showing in the player, the resolution =
has to be set at 720x568.=20

- Also, by setting the mode of the DV camera to 'Card' rather than =
'Tape' drastically improved image quality (less interlacing).

2. With regards to bandwidth usage, I was hoping to be able to select a =
resolution a little lower than 720x568, but after several attempts on =
alternatives, with no luck, I was stuck with this one. In order to make =
it look reasonably good, I had to set the bandwidth to 512Kbps (64KBps) =
@ 12fps. The video is pixelated when there is lots of motion, but when =
doubling the bandwidth to 1024Kbps, things are looking quite smooth.=20

** Comment: 1024Kbps... hmm, well, that means that with our current =
licence (1 personal), we might be able to squeeze in a single stream... =
besides, end clients might not have a bandwidth of that capacity.=20

We're ready to stack a few licenses in order to meet requirements, but a =
1Mbps stream is out of the question.=20

As I don't have much experience with projectors, I'm not sure what =
resolution one would have to push for it to look good on a big screen. =
Also, I think we need to look into a different camera that is supported =
by the Flash Player, and that can do a wider range of resolutions -- OR =
could this also be a function of a capture card? Say, if we invest in a =
decent capture card, could we potentially hook up any camera to that =
card, and the card itself would deliver a range of resolutions to the =
Flash Player?=20

I would be grateful for any suggestions, solutions, thoughts and even =
questions, so that we can get an insight in how to best accomplish a =
successful live streaming event with good quality video.

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal

=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

Stefan Richter

2005-05-30, 7:45 am

Bill Sanders will probably comment on this one as he has a lot of =
experience
testing different cams and settings. He was also kind enough to put =
together
and article for my site which can be found here:
http://www.flashcomguru.com/articles/camtips.cfm

My feeling is that you may want to consider a good firewire cam which =
may be
better than normal webcams yet less bandwidth and resolution hungry than =
the
DV cam.

Also you could try a program called WebcamDV
http://www.orangeware.com/endusers/webcamdv.html which lets you use your =
DV
cam as a webcam - I am not sure what features it offers but I remember =
that
some people on this list had some good results with it. If it enables =
you to
lower the resolution then I think it's a winner.

Also remember that even if you half your upload speed to 512kbps then =
you
can only serve 1 client on a Personal license, not 5!

Stefan

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Simon =
Skr=F8dal
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 6:13 AM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: [FlashComm] Live Streaming

Dear All,=20

I have some findings, and some questions, related to live streaming. I
thought it might be a useful resource for myself, and others thinking =
about
doing the same thing.

My company is looking into streaming a live event in a couple of months. =
It
will be a 6 hour continuos stream to about 5 end points (clients) around =
the
country. The 5 streams need to be of a high resolution, as the clients =
will
project the video onto a large screen.

FCS is probably the most expensive and limited option (with regards to
bandwidth licensing), but I also think it's the most elegant and =
reliable.=20

Until today, I have only been playing around with live streams using a
webcam, and I have put together a neat broadcaster application, which =
lets
me change camera and mic settings at real time. Everything works a =
treat,
although the highest resolution supported by the webcam is 352x264.

So, today I have a DV cam in my office, and thought I'd hook it up and =
see
what resolutions I can stream and how much bandwidth I have to surrender =
to
make the video looking smooth.=20

My findings:

1. The DV camera in question, a Canon MV730i, was picked up by the flash
player, but no image came through when selected.=20

** Solution: I found this entry in Waldo Smeets' blog:
http://www.waldosmeets.com/index.cfm?entryID=3D489

- Basically, to get the DV capture showing in the player, the resolution =
has
to be set at 720x568.=20

- Also, by setting the mode of the DV camera to 'Card' rather than =
'Tape'
drastically improved image quality (less interlacing).

2. With regards to bandwidth usage, I was hoping to be able to select a
resolution a little lower than 720x568, but after several attempts on
alternatives, with no luck, I was stuck with this one. In order to make =
it
look reasonably good, I had to set the bandwidth to 512Kbps (64KBps) @
12fps. The video is pixelated when there is lots of motion, but when
doubling the bandwidth to 1024Kbps, things are looking quite smooth.=20

** Comment: 1024Kbps... hmm, well, that means that with our current =
licence
(1 personal), we might be able to squeeze in a single stream... besides, =
end
clients might not have a bandwidth of that capacity.=20

We're ready to stack a few licenses in order to meet requirements, but a
1Mbps stream is out of the question.=20

As I don't have much experience with projectors, I'm not sure what
resolution one would have to push for it to look good on a big screen. =
Also,
I think we need to look into a different camera that is supported by the
Flash Player, and that can do a wider range of resolutions -- OR could =
this
also be a function of a capture card? Say, if we invest in a decent =
capture
card, could we potentially hook up any camera to that card, and the card
itself would deliver a range of resolutions to the Flash Player?=20

I would be grateful for any suggestions, solutions, thoughts and even
questions, so that we can get an insight in how to best accomplish a
successful live streaming event with good quality video.

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal

=3D---------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=3D---------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

Stefan Richter

2005-05-30, 7:45 am

Simon,
Please could you also email me offlist.

Thanks

Stefan

stefan AT flashcomguru DOT com

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Simon =
Skr=F8dal
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 6:13 AM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: [FlashComm] Live Streaming

Dear All,=20

I have some findings, and some questions, related to live streaming. I
thought it might be a useful resource for myself, and others thinking =
about
doing the same thing.

My company is looking into streaming a live event in a couple of months. =
It
will be a 6 hour continuos stream to about 5 end points (clients) around =
the
country. The 5 streams need to be of a high resolution, as the clients =
will
project the video onto a large screen.

FCS is probably the most expensive and limited option (with regards to
bandwidth licensing), but I also think it's the most elegant and =
reliable.=20

Until today, I have only been playing around with live streams using a
webcam, and I have put together a neat broadcaster application, which =
lets
me change camera and mic settings at real time. Everything works a =
treat,
although the highest resolution supported by the webcam is 352x264.

So, today I have a DV cam in my office, and thought I'd hook it up and =
see
what resolutions I can stream and how much bandwidth I have to surrender =
to
make the video looking smooth.=20

My findings:

1. The DV camera in question, a Canon MV730i, was picked up by the flash
player, but no image came through when selected.=20

** Solution: I found this entry in Waldo Smeets' blog:
http://www.waldosmeets.com/index.cfm?entryID=3D489

- Basically, to get the DV capture showing in the player, the resolution =
has
to be set at 720x568.=20

- Also, by setting the mode of the DV camera to 'Card' rather than =
'Tape'
drastically improved image quality (less interlacing).

2. With regards to bandwidth usage, I was hoping to be able to select a
resolution a little lower than 720x568, but after several attempts on
alternatives, with no luck, I was stuck with this one. In order to make =
it
look reasonably good, I had to set the bandwidth to 512Kbps (64KBps) @
12fps. The video is pixelated when there is lots of motion, but when
doubling the bandwidth to 1024Kbps, things are looking quite smooth.=20

** Comment: 1024Kbps... hmm, well, that means that with our current =
licence
(1 personal), we might be able to squeeze in a single stream... besides, =
end
clients might not have a bandwidth of that capacity.=20

We're ready to stack a few licenses in order to meet requirements, but a
1Mbps stream is out of the question.=20

As I don't have much experience with projectors, I'm not sure what
resolution one would have to push for it to look good on a big screen. =
Also,
I think we need to look into a different camera that is supported by the
Flash Player, and that can do a wider range of resolutions -- OR could =
this
also be a function of a capture card? Say, if we invest in a decent =
capture
card, could we potentially hook up any camera to that card, and the card
itself would deliver a range of resolutions to the Flash Player?=20

I would be grateful for any suggestions, solutions, thoughts and even
questions, so that we can get an insight in how to best accomplish a
successful live streaming event with good quality video.

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal

=3D---------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=3D---------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

Bill Sanders

2005-05-30, 7:45 am

Hi Simon,

With the DVs I've used, I have not had to use 720 x 568, and =20
generally get excellent results with 320 X 240. A while back I =20
created a utility that can be used for testing different settings:

http://poobah.hartford.edu/flashcom...ch/utility.html

Also, I did another utility that can measure BW with different settings:
http://nemo.hartford.edu/~wsanders/vidUtil/vid2004.html

Using a DV requires a special DV interface card for IEEE 1394 on a PC =20=

while on a Mac, you can use the native Firewire with no problem. If =20
you're using a Windows PC, you might want to see what kind of =20
interface you've got.

Joey Lott wrote chapter 6 in Brian's book on Cameras that's =20
excellent. It will help a great deal as well.

Also, if you take out the video tape, you can work equally well using =20=

Tape or Card setting.

HTH,
Bill
On May 30, 2005, at 1:12 AM, Simon Skr=F8dal wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have some findings, and some questions, related to live =20
> streaming. I thought it might be a useful resource for myself, and =20
> others thinking about doing the same thing.
>
> My company is looking into streaming a live event in a couple of =20
> months. It will be a 6 hour continuos stream to about 5 end points =20
> (clients) around the country. The 5 streams need to be of a high =20
> resolution, as the clients will project the video onto a large screen.
>
> FCS is probably the most expensive and limited option (with regards =20=

> to bandwidth licensing), but I also think it's the most elegant and =20=

> reliable.
>
> Until today, I have only been playing around with live streams =20
> using a webcam, and I have put together a neat broadcaster =20
> application, which lets me change camera and mic settings at real =20
> time. Everything works a treat, although the highest resolution =20
> supported by the webcam is 352x264.
>
> So, today I have a DV cam in my office, and thought I'd hook it up =20
> and see what resolutions I can stream and how much bandwidth I have =20=

> to surrender to make the video looking smooth.
>
> My findings:
>
> 1. The DV camera in question, a Canon MV730i, was picked up by the =20
> flash player, but no image came through when selected.
>
> ** Solution: I found this entry in Waldo Smeets' blog: http://=20
> www.waldosmeets.com/index.cfm?entryID=3D489
>
> - Basically, to get the DV capture showing in the player, the =20
> resolution has to be set at 720x568.
>
> - Also, by setting the mode of the DV camera to 'Card' rather than =20
> 'Tape' drastically improved image quality (less interlacing).
>
> 2. With regards to bandwidth usage, I was hoping to be able to =20
> select a resolution a little lower than 720x568, but after several =20
> attempts on alternatives, with no luck, I was stuck with this one. =20
> In order to make it look reasonably good, I had to set the =20
> bandwidth to 512Kbps (64KBps) @ 12fps. The video is pixelated when =20
> there is lots of motion, but when doubling the bandwidth to =20
> 1024Kbps, things are looking quite smooth.
>
> ** Comment: 1024Kbps... hmm, well, that means that with our current =20=

> licence (1 personal), we might be able to squeeze in a single =20
> stream... besides, end clients might not have a bandwidth of that =20
> capacity.
>
> We're ready to stack a few licenses in order to meet requirements, =20
> but a 1Mbps stream is out of the question.
>
> As I don't have much experience with projectors, I'm not sure what =20
> resolution one would have to push for it to look good on a big =20
> screen. Also, I think we need to look into a different camera that =20
> is supported by the Flash Player, and that can do a wider range of =20
> resolutions -- OR could this also be a function of a capture card? =20
> Say, if we invest in a decent capture card, could we potentially =20
> hook up any camera to that card, and the card itself would deliver =20
> a range of resolutions to the Flash Player?
>
> I would be grateful for any suggestions, solutions, thoughts and =20
> even questions, so that we can get an insight in how to best =20
> accomplish a successful live streaming event with good quality video.
>
> Kind regards,
> Simon Skr=F8dal
>
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>

=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

Simon Skrødal

2005-05-31, 2:45 am

Thanks, Stefan and Bill for your responses.

On my development box, I am running a PC with Windows XP. The DV cam is
picked up via firewire automatically, and is recognised by the Flash Play=
er.
However, I can only get the video displaying when res. is set to 720x568.

I have also hooked up the DV cam to an internal capture card, and I am ab=
le
to get 320x240 using that, but only after using a great (freeware) tool
called SplitCam to create a virtual video capture driver
(http://www.splitcamera.com/) for the camera and tweak the settings of th=
e
camera through this program.

I tried to stream the 320x240 video at 400kbps to a receiver running full
screen on a 1280x1024 display. The outcome was actually pretty good. Much
better than the forced resolution of 720x568 on firewire, at 1000kbps, wh=
ich
I found to look extremely pixelated.

When it comes to the fullscreen projectors, I suppose if it looks good on
the monitor, it will look good projected(?). Nonetheless, we will probabl=
y
look into getting a different camera, and Bill's camera tips were useful =
in
that respect.

I also noticed that our Italian friend Roberto Pizzignach was doing a liv=
e
stream overnight (sorry I missed it, but Australian time seems to miss ou=
t
on all the action around the world), so if Roberto has read on this far,
perhaps you can give some insight in equipment and technical aspects from
your experience?

Thanks again, guys,

Kind Regards
Simon Skr=F8dal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Sanders" <wdsanders-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org>
To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] Live Streaming

Hi Simon,

With the DVs I've used, I have not had to use 720 x 568, and
generally get excellent results with 320 X 240. A while back I
created a utility that can be used for testing different settings:

http://poobah.hartford.edu/flashcom...ch/utility.html

Also, I did another utility that can measure BW with different settings:
http://nemo.hartford.edu/~wsanders/vidUtil/vid2004.html

Using a DV requires a special DV interface card for IEEE 1394 on a PC
while on a Mac, you can use the native Firewire with no problem. If
you're using a Windows PC, you might want to see what kind of
interface you've got.

Joey Lott wrote chapter 6 in Brian's book on Cameras that's
excellent. It will help a great deal as well.

Also, if you take out the video tape, you can work equally well using
Tape or Card setting.

HTH,
Bill
On May 30, 2005, at 1:12 AM, Simon Skr=F8dal wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have some findings, and some questions, related to live
> streaming. I thought it might be a useful resource for myself, and
> others thinking about doing the same thing.
>
> My company is looking into streaming a live event in a couple of
> months. It will be a 6 hour continuos stream to about 5 end points
> (clients) around the country. The 5 streams need to be of a high
> resolution, as the clients will project the video onto a large screen.
>
> FCS is probably the most expensive and limited option (with regards
> to bandwidth licensing), but I also think it's the most elegant and
> reliable.
>
> Until today, I have only been playing around with live streams
> using a webcam, and I have put together a neat broadcaster
> application, which lets me change camera and mic settings at real
> time. Everything works a treat, although the highest resolution
> supported by the webcam is 352x264.
>
> So, today I have a DV cam in my office, and thought I'd hook it up
> and see what resolutions I can stream and how much bandwidth I have
> to surrender to make the video looking smooth.
>
> My findings:
>
> 1. The DV camera in question, a Canon MV730i, was picked up by the
> flash player, but no image came through when selected.
>
> ** Solution: I found this entry in Waldo Smeets' blog: http://
> www.waldosmeets.com/index.cfm?entryID=3D489
>
> - Basically, to get the DV capture showing in the player, the
> resolution has to be set at 720x568.
>
> - Also, by setting the mode of the DV camera to 'Card' rather than
> 'Tape' drastically improved image quality (less interlacing).
>
> 2. With regards to bandwidth usage, I was hoping to be able to
> select a resolution a little lower than 720x568, but after several
> attempts on alternatives, with no luck, I was stuck with this one.
> In order to make it look reasonably good, I had to set the
> bandwidth to 512Kbps (64KBps) @ 12fps. The video is pixelated when
> there is lots of motion, but when doubling the bandwidth to
> 1024Kbps, things are looking quite smooth.
>
> ** Comment: 1024Kbps... hmm, well, that means that with our current
> licence (1 personal), we might be able to squeeze in a single
> stream... besides, end clients might not have a bandwidth of that
> capacity.
>
> We're ready to stack a few licenses in order to meet requirements,
> but a 1Mbps stream is out of the question.
>
> As I don't have much experience with projectors, I'm not sure what
> resolution one would have to push for it to look good on a big
> screen. Also, I think we need to look into a different camera that
> is supported by the Flash Player, and that can do a wider range of
> resolutions -- OR could this also be a function of a capture card?
> Say, if we invest in a decent capture card, could we potentially
> hook up any camera to that card, and the card itself would deliver
> a range of resolutions to the Flash Player?
>
> I would be grateful for any suggestions, solutions, thoughts and
> even questions, so that we can get an insight in how to best
> accomplish a successful live streaming event with good quality video.
>
> Kind regards,
> Simon Skr=F8dal
>
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>

=3D---------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=3D---------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm

=3D-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=3D-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm