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| Bill Sanders 2005-08-24, 5:52 pm |
| When I discovered that my sound problems could be solved by changing
my FPS, I was indeed delighted. However, Graeme noted that the one I
picked, 16fps was not native to any camera he knew. This got me to
thinking about a camera's "native FPS". In PFCS, Joey Lott shows a
list of camera settings w/ FPS settings with different w/h settings.
(e.g. 160 x 120/ 30FPS , 512 x 288/ 13FPS).
In looking around I found FPS settings on the hardware all over the
map including 15, 24, 25, 18, 10-12, 30 for Webcams. My iSight is
listed at 30fps (which seems pretty common), but getting more
information than that has not been simple.
Does anyone know of a good article on Webcam hardware FPS? (In the
fancy box that my iSight came in, there was trendy packaging but zip
for technical information--another searchable.)
TIA,
Bill
bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
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| Wilton Rossi 2005-08-24, 5:52 pm |
| I agree with Bill. Since we all know that both video
FPS and dimensions might be arbitrarily changed to
adapt to the webcam's native settings, setting up
configs in our applications has been a drag...
I also searched the web, but couldn't find much useful
info. Even manufacturers often won't list native FPS
and dimensions in their sites.=20
W
--- Bill Sanders <wdsanders-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> When I discovered that my sound problems could be
> solved by changing =20
> my FPS, I was indeed delighted. However, Graeme
> noted that the one I =20
> picked, 16fps was not native to any camera he knew.
> This got me to =20
> thinking about a camera's "native FPS". In PFCS,
> Joey Lott shows a =20
> list of camera settings w/ FPS settings with
> different w/h settings. =20
> (e.g. 160 x 120/ 30FPS , 512 x 288/ 13FPS).
>=20
> In looking around I found FPS settings on the
> hardware all over the =20
> map including 15, 24, 25, 18, 10-12, 30 for Webcams.
> My iSight is =20
> listed at 30fps (which seems pretty common), but
> getting more =20
> information than that has not been simple.
>=20
> Does anyone know of a good article on Webcam
> hardware FPS? (In the =20
> fancy box that my iSight came in, there was trendy
> packaging but zip =20
> for technical information--another searchable.)
>=20
> TIA,
> Bill
>=20
>=20
> bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct |
> 860-242-2260
>=20
>=20
>
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> http://www.figleaf.com
>
=3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> To change your subscription options or search the
> archive:
>
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>=20
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__________
Do You Yahoo!?
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| |
| Clarke Bishop 2005-08-24, 5:53 pm |
| It seems to me that there would not be such a thing as "native FPS." The
native resolution is caused by the CCD in the camera that has a certain
resolution. But frames per second is just about the interval at which a
frame gets captured. The limit on fps would only be determined by the
response rate of the camera's CCD and how quickly the computer would grab
frames. Of course the driver would have to support the frame rate too!
What do you think?
Clarke
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sanders
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:52 AM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: [FlashComm] Acceptable FPS
When I discovered that my sound problems could be solved by changing my FPS,
I was indeed delighted. However, Graeme noted that the one I picked, 16fps
was not native to any camera he knew. This got me to thinking about a
camera's "native FPS". In PFCS, Joey Lott shows a list of camera settings
w/ FPS settings with different w/h settings.
(e.g. 160 x 120/ 30FPS , 512 x 288/ 13FPS).
In looking around I found FPS settings on the hardware all over the map
including 15, 24, 25, 18, 10-12, 30 for Webcams. My iSight is listed at
30fps (which seems pretty common), but getting more information than that
has not been simple.
Does anyone know of a good article on Webcam hardware FPS? (In the fancy box
that my iSight came in, there was trendy packaging but zip for technical
information--another searchable.)
TIA,
Bill
bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------
To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------
To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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| |
| Bill Sanders 2005-08-24, 5:53 pm |
| Clarke,
That's what I thought, but Grame suggested otherwise. Also, Joey's
chapter (p 219) of PFCS talks about Native modes that include both
dimensions and FPS. My assumption was the same as your's -- if a
camera as a piece of hardware can handle up to 30fps, anything below
that would be an acceptable adjustment. However, there may be certain
settings that it's set up for 'natively' The dearth of info on this
is of little help.
Thanks,
Bill
On Aug 24, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Clarke Bishop wrote:
> It seems to me that there would not be such a thing as "native
> FPS." The
> native resolution is caused by the CCD in the camera that has a
> certain
> resolution. But frames per second is just about the interval at
> which a
> frame gets captured. The limit on fps would only be determined by the
> response rate of the camera's CCD and how quickly the computer
> would grab
> frames. Of course the driver would have to support the frame rate too!
>
> What do you think?
>
> Clarke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Sanders
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:52 AM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: [FlashComm] Acceptable FPS
>
> When I discovered that my sound problems could be solved by
> changing my FPS,
> I was indeed delighted. However, Graeme noted that the one I
> picked, 16fps
> was not native to any camera he knew. This got me to thinking about a
> camera's "native FPS". In PFCS, Joey Lott shows a list of camera
> settings
> w/ FPS settings with different w/h settings.
> (e.g. 160 x 120/ 30FPS , 512 x 288/ 13FPS).
>
> In looking around I found FPS settings on the hardware all over the
> map
> including 15, 24, 25, 18, 10-12, 30 for Webcams. My iSight is
> listed at
> 30fps (which seems pretty common), but getting more information
> than that
> has not been simple.
>
> Does anyone know of a good article on Webcam hardware FPS? (In the
> fancy box
> that my iSight came in, there was trendy packaging but zip for
> technical
> information--another searchable.)
>
> TIA,
> Bill
>
>
> bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------
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| |
| Graeme Bull 2005-08-24, 5:53 pm |
| OK, well since Bill insists on putting my name in every post he makes I'll
see what I can contribute to this.
Most web cameras that I have seen do not support much above 15FPS. Even if
they "support" 15FPS some (cheap ones) will choke when you try to make it go
that high.
Then there is the case of 30FPS. Some of the more expensive cameras seem to
support this but only up to a certain res of video. For example, you'll have
a camera that will support up to 640 x 480 but the FPS will be stuck at 15
(if that), whereas if you halve the size you'll be able to get 30 (or so
they say on the box).
Then there are DV cameras, where their "native" settings put it at 29.97FPS
if you're in North America or Japan, and 25 if you aren't.
Now, how does this all work with flash? From what I have found, it's
reasonably random.. If you do a test on exactly how many FPS you are getting
out of your camera and that get sent across the wire and come back, you'll
find that most of the time you aren't ever going to get 30FPS. Even out of a
high-priced DV cam, they just can't get up to 30 FPS with the flash player.
Especially when there is a lot of movement and the camera has to try even
harder, and flash has to try even harder and the video frames have to make
it across the wire, you can see at least 5 to 9 frames per second loss right
away.
With wimpy little webcams it's even tougher I think, although I haven't done
much work at all with them when it comes to trying to wring 30FPS out of
them. Although when you use the "native software" for the camera, it looks
great. Which means that it could be a flash problem of not being able to
process that many frames per second, or at least pull them in from the
camera that fast.
Keep in mind too that a fast CPU, up to date drivers, and the newest flash
player all help to get you the most FPS you can in Flash.
As for finding out the supported size and FPS of a webcam, that is most
likely either written on the box that you bought the cam in, or in the
manual. I've yet to see a camera that didn't come with that info. If you do
see one with nothing explained, you're paying for what you get... Keep in
mind though that *most* webcameras do not ever get much over 15FPS, and the
ones that do get limited in res.
Testing testing and more testing is the name of this game. If only MM would
help out in this aspect and start a big technote into what FPS at what res
with what flash player is possible.
Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sanders
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:35 PM
To: cbishop-r0q+TyXDsITBEk43fZcqjg@public.gmane.org; FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] Acceptable FPS
Clarke,
That's what I thought, but Grame suggested otherwise. Also, Joey's chapter
(p 219) of PFCS talks about Native modes that include both dimensions and
FPS. My assumption was the same as your's -- if a camera as a piece of
hardware can handle up to 30fps, anything below that would be an acceptable
adjustment. However, there may be certain settings that it's set up for
'natively' The dearth of info on this is of little help.
Thanks,
Bill
On Aug 24, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Clarke Bishop wrote:
> It seems to me that there would not be such a thing as "native FPS."
> The native resolution is caused by the CCD in the camera that has a
> certain resolution. But frames per second is just about the interval
> at which a frame gets captured. The limit on fps would only be
> determined by the response rate of the camera's CCD and how quickly
> the computer would grab frames. Of course the driver would have to
> support the frame rate too!
>
> What do you think?
>
> Clarke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Sanders
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:52 AM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: [FlashComm] Acceptable FPS
>
> When I discovered that my sound problems could be solved by changing
> my FPS, I was indeed delighted. However, Graeme noted that the one I
> picked, 16fps was not native to any camera he knew. This got me to
> thinking about a camera's "native FPS". In PFCS, Joey Lott shows a
> list of camera settings w/ FPS settings with different w/h settings.
> (e.g. 160 x 120/ 30FPS , 512 x 288/ 13FPS).
>
> In looking around I found FPS settings on the hardware all over the
> map including 15, 24, 25, 18, 10-12, 30 for Webcams. My iSight is
> listed at 30fps (which seems pretty common), but getting more
> information than that has not been simple.
>
> Does anyone know of a good article on Webcam hardware FPS? (In the
> fancy box that my iSight came in, there was trendy packaging but zip
> for technical information--another searchable.)
>
> TIA,
> Bill
>
>
> bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------
To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------
To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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| |
| Simon Lord 2005-08-24, 5:53 pm |
| Another thing to keep in mind is LIGHTING. If someone is
broadcasting in very poor lighting conditions the FPS drops
*significantly* as the camera is working hard to focus on the
broadcaster, detect motion, determine contrast etc. A well lit
subject will allow the webcam to hit it's maximum potential FPS -
whatever that may be.
On Aug 24, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Graeme Bull wrote:
> OK, well since Bill insists on putting my name in every post he
> makes I'll
> see what I can contribute to this.
>
> Most web cameras that I have seen do not support much above 15FPS.
> Even if
> they "support" 15FPS some (cheap ones) will choke when you try to
> make it go
> that high.
>
> Then there is the case of 30FPS. Some of the more expensive cameras
> seem to
> support this but only up to a certain res of video. For example,
> you'll have
> a camera that will support up to 640 x 480 but the FPS will be
> stuck at 15
> (if that), whereas if you halve the size you'll be able to get 30
> (or so
> they say on the box).
>
> Then there are DV cameras, where their "native" settings put it at
> 29.97FPS
> if you're in North America or Japan, and 25 if you aren't.
>
> Now, how does this all work with flash? From what I have found, it's
> reasonably random.. If you do a test on exactly how many FPS you
> are getting
> out of your camera and that get sent across the wire and come back,
> you'll
> find that most of the time you aren't ever going to get 30FPS. Even
> out of a
> high-priced DV cam, they just can't get up to 30 FPS with the flash
> player.
> Especially when there is a lot of movement and the camera has to
> try even
> harder, and flash has to try even harder and the video frames have
> to make
> it across the wire, you can see at least 5 to 9 frames per second
> loss right
> away.
>
> With wimpy little webcams it's even tougher I think, although I
> haven't done
> much work at all with them when it comes to trying to wring 30FPS
> out of
> them. Although when you use the "native software" for the camera,
> it looks
> great. Which means that it could be a flash problem of not being
> able to
> process that many frames per second, or at least pull them in from the
> camera that fast.
>
> Keep in mind too that a fast CPU, up to date drivers, and the
> newest flash
> player all help to get you the most FPS you can in Flash.
>
> As for finding out the supported size and FPS of a webcam, that is
> most
> likely either written on the box that you bought the cam in, or in the
> manual. I've yet to see a camera that didn't come with that info.
> If you do
> see one with nothing explained, you're paying for what you get...
> Keep in
> mind though that *most* webcameras do not ever get much over 15FPS,
> and the
> ones that do get limited in res.
>
> Testing testing and more testing is the name of this game. If only
> MM would
> help out in this aspect and start a big technote into what FPS at
> what res
> with what flash player is possible.
>
> Graeme
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Sanders
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:35 PM
> To: cbishop-r0q+TyXDsITBEk43fZcqjg@public.gmane.org; FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] Acceptable FPS
>
> Clarke,
>
> That's what I thought, but Grame suggested otherwise. Also, Joey's
> chapter
> (p 219) of PFCS talks about Native modes that include both
> dimensions and
> FPS. My assumption was the same as your's -- if a camera as a piece of
> hardware can handle up to 30fps, anything below that would be an
> acceptable
> adjustment. However, there may be certain settings that it's set up
> for
> 'natively' The dearth of info on this is of little help.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> On Aug 24, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Clarke Bishop wrote:
>
>
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
=-----------------------------------------------------------
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=-----------------------------------------------------------
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| |
| Dario De Agostini 2005-08-30, 7:46 am |
| Hi all,
i just want to add that MOST webcams are USB1.0
which simply can't stream high fps on most resolutions...
in fact limits are
1) webcam hardware (sensor speed, resolution)
2) usb bandwidth
3) wdm driver speed (speed in generating frames)
4) computer speed (speed in reading generated frames)
with normal live streamings you will care only about points 1 and 2.
when you start using resolutions higher than 640x480 (usb2 or firewire of
course) points 3 and 4 play the biggest role.
It may be just too obvious to everyone but i wanted to write it :D
Dario De Agostini
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