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WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
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| John Berzy 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| Steve Wolkoff wrote on Feb 10th, 2006:
"We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few weeks. One
of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think people
who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going on.
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| |
| Jake Hilton 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
Jake
On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Wolkoff wrote on Feb 10th, 2006:
>
> "We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few weeks.
> One
> of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
>
> It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think
> people
> who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going on.
>
> ________________________________________
_________________________
> Auto news & advice =96 check out Sympatico / MSN Autos
> http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
>
> ________________________________________
_______
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> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
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| |
| Harris, Mike 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| ....except in Breeze, maybe...
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-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jake
Hilton
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:01 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
Jake
On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Wolkoff wrote on Feb 10th, 2006:
>
> "We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few=20
> weeks. One of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
>
> It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think=20
> people who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going=20
> on.
>
> ________________________________________
_________________________
> Auto news & advice - check out Sympatico / MSN Autos=20
> http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
>
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:=20
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training=20
> http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
>
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| |
| John Berzy 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>From: "Jake Hilton" <flashcomm-qux/SyskHsPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: FlashComm Mailing List <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:08 -0600
>
>Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
>
>Jake
>
>On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> ________________________________________
_______
>FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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>http://training.figleaf.com
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| |
|
|
| Jay Charles 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| All is not lost.
I spoke with one of the fine folks at Nellymoser today, and they do in
fact have a scalable, enterprise ready application for server side flv
to mp3 conversion, in flavors for both windows and linux. It's not
cheap, but it's available. At the moment, their pricing does not seem to
be completely firm ("Let's make a deal"), so I don't think it would be
proper of me to repeat the prices I was quoted.
It might take a few contact attempts, but eventually someone from
Nellymoser will reply. I think they weren't expecting every FMS dev from
New York to Timbuktu to ask about it, and I don't think their sales team
is big enough for the volume just yet.
I expect to have an evaluation copy of the app in the next couple of
days, and I'll post comments about performance to the list once I've had
some time to play with it (the app that is, Mr. Dirty Mind).
About the utility S. Wolkoff mentioned... I'd put it out of my mind were
I you (the collective "you"). Again, I'm not comfortable repeating info
that may have been given to me in confidence so I won't go into
specifics, but don't plan on the app being released by Adobe anytime
soon (if at all). I should say that, to the best of my knowledge) this
is not due to anything on Nellymoser's side, so please don't give them a
hard time about it.
-Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Berzy
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:09 PM
To: flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>From: "Jake Hilton" <flashcomm-qux/SyskHsPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: FlashComm Mailing List <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:08 -0600
>
>Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
>
>Jake
>
>On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
weeks.[vbcol=seagreen]
> ________________________________________
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>
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| |
| Jay Charles 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| Truth be told, I'm a little worried about the legal issues surrounding
red5. I'm quite certain that the suits will find their way to squashing
red5 if it starts to take a bite out of their (Adobe's) anticipated
revenue. Being a public corporation, they are bound (bound as in
"required", not as in "likely") to take action against threats to their
revenue streams.
With that in mind, there's no chance of me recommending Red5 as a
solution for any of my paying clients.
-Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jordan
Snyder
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:51 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
Then why not go to Red5?
I mean, honestly...that wasn't a smartass question.
I'm considering it myself.
Different topic, I'm sure.
On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>
>
weeks.[vbcol=seagreen]
think[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> ________________________________________
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>
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> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
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--
Jordan Snyder
Applications Developer
Image Action LLC
http://www.imageaction.com
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| |
| hank williams 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Truth be told, I'm a little worried about the legal issues surrounding
> red5. I'm quite certain that the suits will find their way to squashing
> red5 if it starts to take a bite out of their (Adobe's) anticipated
> revenue. Being a public corporation, they are bound (bound as in
> "required", not as in "likely") to take action against threats to their
> revenue streams.
You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue stream. You
actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this. There
have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year and a
half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the purpose
of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage door
opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining that a
competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created by
reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.
http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara..._3-5341625.html
The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly analagous to
Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
engineer.
There is no gray area about this.
Regards
Hank
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| |
| Steve Wolkoff 2006-07-11, 7:11 pm |
| Hi Jake -
We have not been able to release the FLV / MP3 converter due to
restrictions in our Nelly Moser license agreement. While prepping the
converter for the Labs release, we reviewed the license agreement with
our Legal team, and found that we can only distribute this tool to be
used with licensed copies of Flash Media Server. If this tool were used
in conjunction with any other server (e.g. Red5) Adobe would be
violating that license agreement. At that point, both we and the end
users of that tool would be in a legally tenuous situation. We're going
to have a Private Beta for this tool, which we are working on setting up
right now. I'm sorry for the delay and lack of communication. I really
wanted to make this tool publicly available, as I think it opens up a
whole range of cool FMS based applications.=20
@Jay - while I guess this is not technically NM's "fault", we are bound
by the contractual agreements that our licensors have imposed on us.
I will update when we have more information on our Beta program for this
converter.
thanks,
-steve.=09
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jake
Hilton
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:01 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
Jake
On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Wolkoff wrote on Feb 10th, 2006:
>
> "We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few
weeks.
> One
> of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
>
> It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think
> people
> who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going on.
>
> ________________________________________
_________________________
> Auto news & advice - check out Sympatico / MSN Autos
> http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
>
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
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| |
| Jay Charles 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| I'm not sure what county you're in, but here in the US you can sue over
anything you like. I can sue you because the pattern on you shirt hurts
my eyes. That doesn't mean I'll win, and it doesn't mean the judge won't
decide that there is no question of law, but anyone can walk into the
clerk's office of any court, file a complaint, and get a summons to send
to the defendant... regardless of the cause of action.
Case law is wonderful for building your case, and it may save you from
going all the way to trial, but it won't save you from discovery,
pretrial hearings and meetings, and the barrage of motions and other
filings that come with a civil action... all of which require responses
to be filed. If you don't respond to motions, don't participate in
discovery, or if you're foolish enough to not answer the complaint, it
becomes an easy win for the other side.
The real question is whether the folks responsible for the development
of red5 have the time, resources, will, and cash to put up a fight if
Adobe comes calling. Right or wrong, the legal question is only half of
the equation.
If the folks at Adobe can put forth enough evidence that Red5 MIGHT
infringe on patent or copyright, there is enough to have the case
heard... and it doesn't take much. That fact combined with the army of
on staff counsel at adobe makes them a strong adversary, or perhaps more
accurately, very expensive to go up against.
I don't know if you've been through civil litigation, but the volume of
paperwork and research involved can be staggering, and a good lawyer (is
that a contradiction in terms?) will know how to bury the other side in
motions and other filings. That means you either pay a lawyer to handle
it for you, or you end up with a second full time job. The question of
law doesn't matter if you don't have the means or will to fight.
-Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of hank
williams
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:54 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Truth be told, I'm a little worried about the legal issues surrounding
> red5. I'm quite certain that the suits will find their way to
squashing
> red5 if it starts to take a bite out of their (Adobe's) anticipated
> revenue. Being a public corporation, they are bound (bound as in
> "required", not as in "likely") to take action against threats to
their
> revenue streams.
You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue stream.
You
actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this.
There
have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year
and a
half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the
purpose
of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage door
opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining that
a
competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created by
reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.
http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
-1028_3-5341625.html
The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly
analagous to
Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
engineer.
There is no gray area about this.
Regards
Hank
________________________________________
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| |
| hank williams 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what county you're in, but here in the US you can sue over
> anything you like. I can sue you because the pattern on you shirt hurts
> my eyes. That doesn't mean I'll win, and it doesn't mean the judge won't
> decide that there is no question of law, but anyone can walk into the
> clerk's office of any court, file a complaint, and get a summons to send
> to the defendant... regardless of the cause of action.
>
> Case law is wonderful for building your case, and it may save you from
> going all the way to trial, but it won't save you from discovery,
> pretrial hearings and meetings, and the barrage of motions and other
> filings that come with a civil action... all of which require responses
> to be filed. If you don't respond to motions, don't participate in
> discovery, or if you're foolish enough to not answer the complaint, it
> becomes an easy win for the other side.
>
> The real question is whether the folks responsible for the development
> of red5 have the time, resources, will, and cash to put up a fight if
> Adobe comes calling. Right or wrong, the legal question is only half of
> the equation.
>
> If the folks at Adobe can put forth enough evidence that Red5 MIGHT
> infringe on patent or copyright, there is enough to have the case
> heard... and it doesn't take much. That fact combined with the army of
> on staff counsel at adobe makes them a strong adversary, or perhaps more
> accurately, very expensive to go up against.
>
> I don't know if you've been through civil litigation, but the volume of
> paperwork and research involved can be staggering, and a good lawyer (is
> that a contradiction in terms?) will know how to bury the other side in
> motions and other filings. That means you either pay a lawyer to handle
> it for you, or you end up with a second full time job. The question of
> law doesn't matter if you don't have the means or will to fight.
>
> -Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of hank
> williams
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:54 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
> On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> squashing
> their
>
>
> You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue stream.
> You
> actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this.
> There
> have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year
> and a
> half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the
> purpose
> of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage door
> opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining that
> a
> competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created by
> reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.
>
> http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
> -1028_3-5341625.html
>
> The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly
> analagous to
> Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
> engineer.
>
> There is no gray area about this.
>
> Regards
> Hank
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
_______
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> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
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| |
| John Grden 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| And, we stand by our processes as being completely legal and within our
rights:
http://www.osflash.org/red5/red5_legal_reasonings - read this first
then this: http://www.osflash.org/red5/discovery
If you have any questions, please ask on the Red5 list, we'll be happy to go
over any of them as thoroughly as possible.
Also, with regards to Adobe and market share, I've stated it many times
about where we sit. We're definitly filling in many areas as an
alternative, but we're in no way replacing FMS and it's not our goal. I
don't think it's a matter of "switching" - it's a matter of what tool works
best given the budget, requirements and client.
Hope this helps,
JG
On 7/11/06, hank williams <hank777-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
> You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue stream.
> You
> actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this. There
> have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year and
> a
> half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the
> purpose
> of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage door
> opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining that a
> competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created by
> reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.
>
>
> http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara..._3-5341625.html
>
> The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly analagous
> to
> Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
> engineer.
>
> There is no gray area about this.
>
> Regards
> Hank
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
--
John Grden
________________________________________
_______
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| |
| hank williams 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what county you're in,
The country of New York City.
but here in the US you can sue over
> anything you like. I can sue you because the pattern on you shirt hurts
> my eyes.
Actually this is true in state court. Not in federal court. In federal
court, you do actually have to *have* a case, and truly frivolous litigation
is actually problematic for the lawyers.
That doesn't mean I'll win, and it doesn't mean the judge won't
> decide that there is no question of law, but anyone can walk into the
> clerk's office of any court, file a complaint, and get a summons to send
> to the defendant... regardless of the cause of action.
This is true, but besides the point, as I will explain later.
Case law is wonderful for building your case, and it may save you from
> going all the way to trial, but it won't save you from discovery,
Not true. You can file a motion to dismiss immediately, before discovery. A
motion to dismiss is based on the *pleading* not the actual facts of the
case. And if you plead a harm that is not against the law then your case
will be thrown out. BEFORE discovery.
pretrial hearings and meetings, and the barrage of motions and other
> filings that come with a civil action... all of which require responses
> to be filed. If you don't respond to motions, don't participate in
> discovery, or if you're foolish enough to not answer the complaint, it
> becomes an easy win for the other side.
>
> The real question is whether the folks responsible for the development
> of red5 have the time, resources, will, and cash to put up a fight if
> Adobe comes calling. Right or wrong, the legal question is only half of
> the equation.
I agree that the legal question is only half the question. Less actually.
The other bigger part is PR.
If the folks at Adobe can put forth enough evidence that Red5 MIGHT
> infringe on patent or copyright, there is enough to have the case
> heard... and it doesn't take much.
Adobe has no patents in this area. As far as copyright there is just no law
about anything Red5 is doing being illegal. You cant just file a claim that
says "they are bad people and I want to sue!!!!"
That fact combined with the army of
> on staff counsel at adobe makes them a strong adversary, or perhaps more
> accurately, very expensive to go up against.
True, but ... read on.
I don't know if you've been through civil litigation, but the volume of
> paperwork and research involved can be staggering, and a good lawyer (is
> that a contradiction in terms?) will know how to bury the other side in
> motions and other filings. That means you either pay a lawyer to handle
> it for you, or you end up with a second full time job. The question of
> law doesn't matter if you don't have the means or will to fight.
I have been through civil litigation, a really huge case actually, and,
uhm... without being rude, unless you are actually a litigator (and have
actually taken a case to trial, which many havent) I suspect I am more
familiar with the details of such things than you. I dont say that with any
great hubris or pride because litigation is a pain, but I have spent the
last two years as, essentially, a part time, litigator in a very big nasty
case involving an old company of mine where I got to see up close almost
every conceivable procedural maneuver in civil litigation.
But the truth is the details of litigation have nothing to do with the real
issue at hand.
First, with cases like this there are always people who step in because the
precedents are *so* important. The most important of them is the EFF. It is
inconcievable that they would not get involved in a case like this of one of
the biggest software companies in the world suing an Open Source group with
essentially no grounds. This is the kind of case the EFF lives for.
Even more importantly, from a PR perspective, for adobe to attempt to sue
when there is *absolutely no merit* to their case would be a pr nightmare.
The truth is, even if it *did* have merit it would be a PR nightmare. Every
company who has positioned itself as an enemy of Open Source has come out
worse for it. Its just not good business strategy in 2006. No one, other
than SCO has even attempted to sue anybody over anything Open Source *ever*.
And the SCO thing is actually about a claim that some *actual code* from
their product ended up in linux. (though they havent actually been able to
point any actual code out).
I guess the point is, anyone can sue anyone for anything. Adobe could sue
*you* because they dont like the color of your hair. But what is likely in
the context of all the business and legal issues. I dont think a suit is
likely.
Regards
Hank
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| |
| Bill Sanders 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| Hi Steve,
On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:08 PM, Steve Wolkoff wrote:
> While prepping the
> converter for the Labs release, we reviewed the license agreement with
> our Legal team, and found that we can only distribute this tool to be
> used with licensed copies of Flash Media Server.
Okay, so those of us with licensed copies of FMS can use it w/o
negative legal issues? I'm all set to get one!
On a somewhat related issue, the flv <--> mp3 has become a bit more
relevant to us because we're using Ultra for chroma keying and the
only video background is MP3. With it we could make end-to-end videos
backed by virtual rear-screen photography.
Cheers,
Bill
bill sanders | www.sandlight.com | bloomfield, ct | 860-242-2260
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| |
| Jay Charles 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
|
Don't get me wrong here... I have all the love in the world for open
source, and I want nothing more than for projects like Red5 to succeed
and flourish without having to play into the big-business game. I really
don't mean to put anyone on the defensive here.
That said, I tend to keep what I see as a realistic view when it comes
to the property (or assumed property) of publicly traded companies. The
bottom line is the bottom line, and the reality is that nothing else
matters. If Adobe's board or legal team become aware of anything that is
damaging to their revenue streams (and that they have any element of
control over the situation), they have to act or face the wrath of their
shareholders. Of course, PR is a huge deal, but there has to be a
balance between PR and responsibility to the shareholders, and I really
don't know what it takes to tip that balance.
Of course, I'm no legal or financial expert, nor can I see the future. I
have no way of knowing (or even guessing) what the stuffed suits that be
might or might not do, but common sense tells me to think twice before
staking my business reputation on something with less than absolute
legal footing. If there wasn't question, nobody would feel the need to
publish notes about their position on the matter (a pre-defense if you
will). While the DMCA makes specific provisions for reverse engineering
for the purposes of interoperability, it also specifically limits those
provisions when other questions of law are in play. That's what makes me
wonder what might happen in the future.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't use or recommend red5 for personal,
non-critical projects, but it does mean I would put some hard thought to
using it for anything I'm being paid for until there is some sort of
formal blessing from Adobe (Adobe legal, not the dev teams), and I would
certainly make my clients aware of the fact that there is question about
legal standing (regardless of how outside the question may be).
In the end, I suppose it's all just opinions and theory until the gavel
drops.
@Hank - I don't want to get into a pissing contest about which of us is
the more experienced armchair lawyer... but look me up on Pacer. I've
been around the federal block a few times, pro-se, and I've done pretty
well for someone with zero formal training.
About issue about whether there would be federal question (should there
be an action involving copyright)... we need to consider whether the
judge assigned who gets the case knows anything about proprietary
protocols and where the copyright line actually lies. We should also
consider how loaded the docket is, and whether the judge will actually
hear motions before discovery is scheduled to begin. In one of my cases
my MSJ wasn't heard until long after my rule 16 conference, and in
another the other side argued that my MSJ was premature, and precluding
discovery was unjust. The court agreed on that one, even though I had
mountains of prima-facie evidence. In the end, there is no cut and dry
as to what any given judge will decide about the existence of legal
question or the timing of hearing motions.
Okay... that's enough of my off-topic blather. If we want to discuss law
games further, I suppose we should do it off-list.
-Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Grden
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:22 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
And, we stand by our processes as being completely legal and within our
rights:
http://www.osflash.org/red5/red5_legal_reasonings - read this first
then this: http://www.osflash.org/red5/discovery
If you have any questions, please ask on the Red5 list, we'll be happy
to go
over any of them as thoroughly as possible.
Also, with regards to Adobe and market share, I've stated it many times
about where we sit. We're definitly filling in many areas as an
alternative, but we're in no way replacing FMS and it's not our goal. I
don't think it's a matter of "switching" - it's a matter of what tool
works
best given the budget, requirements and client.
Hope this helps,
JG
On 7/11/06, hank williams <hank777-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
surrounding[vbcol=seagreen]
squashing[vbcol=seagreen]
their[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue
stream.
> You
> actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this.
There
> have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year
and
> a
> half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the
> purpose
> of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage
door
> opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining
that a
> competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created
by
> reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.
>
>
>
http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
-1028_3-5341625.html
>
> The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly
analagous
> to
> Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
> engineer.
>
> There is no gray area about this.
>
> Regards
> Hank
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
--
John Grden
________________________________________
_______
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To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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| |
| hank williams 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| I just am curious. What *do* you think the legal theory for a suit against
red5 would be other than of the "I dont like the color of your hair
variety". Everything you have said sort of implied that you have such a
theory, but you havent said it, and yet you continue to imply that there is
one. Is it only because, as you say, the Red5 guys put something up on their
website talking about legal issues (which they did because people (who dont
know anything about this area of the law) asked questions?
Regards
Hank
On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
> Don't get me wrong here... I have all the love in the world for open
> source, and I want nothing more than for projects like Red5 to succeed
> and flourish without having to play into the big-business game. I really
> don't mean to put anyone on the defensive here.
>
> That said, I tend to keep what I see as a realistic view when it comes
> to the property (or assumed property) of publicly traded companies. The
> bottom line is the bottom line, and the reality is that nothing else
> matters. If Adobe's board or legal team become aware of anything that is
> damaging to their revenue streams (and that they have any element of
> control over the situation), they have to act or face the wrath of their
> shareholders. Of course, PR is a huge deal, but there has to be a
> balance between PR and responsibility to the shareholders, and I really
> don't know what it takes to tip that balance.
>
> Of course, I'm no legal or financial expert, nor can I see the future. I
> have no way of knowing (or even guessing) what the stuffed suits that be
> might or might not do, but common sense tells me to think twice before
> staking my business reputation on something with less than absolute
> legal footing. If there wasn't question, nobody would feel the need to
> publish notes about their position on the matter (a pre-defense if you
> will). While the DMCA makes specific provisions for reverse engineering
> for the purposes of interoperability, it also specifically limits those
> provisions when other questions of law are in play. That's what makes me
> wonder what might happen in the future.
>
> That doesn't mean I wouldn't use or recommend red5 for personal,
> non-critical projects, but it does mean I would put some hard thought to
> using it for anything I'm being paid for until there is some sort of
> formal blessing from Adobe (Adobe legal, not the dev teams), and I would
> certainly make my clients aware of the fact that there is question about
> legal standing (regardless of how outside the question may be).
>
> In the end, I suppose it's all just opinions and theory until the gavel
> drops.
>
> @Hank - I don't want to get into a pissing contest about which of us is
> the more experienced armchair lawyer... but look me up on Pacer. I've
> been around the federal block a few times, pro-se, and I've done pretty
> well for someone with zero formal training.
>
> About issue about whether there would be federal question (should there
> be an action involving copyright)... we need to consider whether the
> judge assigned who gets the case knows anything about proprietary
> protocols and where the copyright line actually lies. We should also
> consider how loaded the docket is, and whether the judge will actually
> hear motions before discovery is scheduled to begin. In one of my cases
> my MSJ wasn't heard until long after my rule 16 conference, and in
> another the other side argued that my MSJ was premature, and precluding
> discovery was unjust. The court agreed on that one, even though I had
> mountains of prima-facie evidence. In the end, there is no cut and dry
> as to what any given judge will decide about the existence of legal
> question or the timing of hearing motions.
>
> Okay... that's enough of my off-topic blather. If we want to discuss law
> games further, I suppose we should do it off-list.
>
> -Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Grden
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:22 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
> And, we stand by our processes as being completely legal and within our
> rights:
>
> http://www.osflash.org/red5/red5_legal_reasonings - read this first
>
> then this: http://www.osflash.org/red5/discovery
>
> If you have any questions, please ask on the Red5 list, we'll be happy
> to go
> over any of them as thoroughly as possible.
>
> Also, with regards to Adobe and market share, I've stated it many times
> about where we sit. We're definitly filling in many areas as an
> alternative, but we're in no way replacing FMS and it's not our goal. I
> don't think it's a matter of "switching" - it's a matter of what tool
> works
> best given the budget, requirements and client.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> JG
>
> On 7/11/06, hank williams <hank777-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> surrounding
> squashing
> their
> stream.
> There
> and
> door
> that a
> by
> http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
> -1028_3-5341625.html
> analagous
>
>
>
> --
> John Grden
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
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| |
| Jay Charles 2006-07-12, 1:11 am |
| This is getting too off-topic, so I've replied off list. If anyone else
wants to keep on with this discussion, just email me and I'll add you to
the copy list.
-Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of hank
williams
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:42 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
I just am curious. What *do* you think the legal theory for a suit
against
red5 would be other than of the "I dont like the color of your hair
variety". Everything you have said sort of implied that you have such a
theory, but you havent said it, and yet you continue to imply that there
is
one. Is it only because, as you say, the Red5 guys put something up on
their
website talking about legal issues (which they did because people (who
dont
know anything about this area of the law) asked questions?
Regards
Hank
On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
> Don't get me wrong here... I have all the love in the world for open
> source, and I want nothing more than for projects like Red5 to succeed
> and flourish without having to play into the big-business game. I
really
> don't mean to put anyone on the defensive here.
>
> That said, I tend to keep what I see as a realistic view when it comes
> to the property (or assumed property) of publicly traded companies.
The
> bottom line is the bottom line, and the reality is that nothing else
> matters. If Adobe's board or legal team become aware of anything that
is
> damaging to their revenue streams (and that they have any element of
> control over the situation), they have to act or face the wrath of
their
> shareholders. Of course, PR is a huge deal, but there has to be a
> balance between PR and responsibility to the shareholders, and I
really
> don't know what it takes to tip that balance.
>
> Of course, I'm no legal or financial expert, nor can I see the future.
I
> have no way of knowing (or even guessing) what the stuffed suits that
be
> might or might not do, but common sense tells me to think twice before
> staking my business reputation on something with less than absolute
> legal footing. If there wasn't question, nobody would feel the need to
> publish notes about their position on the matter (a pre-defense if you
> will). While the DMCA makes specific provisions for reverse
engineering
> for the purposes of interoperability, it also specifically limits
those
> provisions when other questions of law are in play. That's what makes
me
> wonder what might happen in the future.
>
> That doesn't mean I wouldn't use or recommend red5 for personal,
> non-critical projects, but it does mean I would put some hard thought
to
> using it for anything I'm being paid for until there is some sort of
> formal blessing from Adobe (Adobe legal, not the dev teams), and I
would
> certainly make my clients aware of the fact that there is question
about
> legal standing (regardless of how outside the question may be).
>
> In the end, I suppose it's all just opinions and theory until the
gavel
> drops.
>
> @Hank - I don't want to get into a pissing contest about which of us
is
> the more experienced armchair lawyer... but look me up on Pacer. I've
> been around the federal block a few times, pro-se, and I've done
pretty
> well for someone with zero formal training.
>
> About issue about whether there would be federal question (should
there
> be an action involving copyright)... we need to consider whether the
> judge assigned who gets the case knows anything about proprietary
> protocols and where the copyright line actually lies. We should also
> consider how loaded the docket is, and whether the judge will actually
> hear motions before discovery is scheduled to begin. In one of my
cases
> my MSJ wasn't heard until long after my rule 16 conference, and in
> another the other side argued that my MSJ was premature, and
precluding
> discovery was unjust. The court agreed on that one, even though I had
> mountains of prima-facie evidence. In the end, there is no cut and dry
> as to what any given judge will decide about the existence of legal
> question or the timing of hearing motions.
>
> Okay... that's enough of my off-topic blather. If we want to discuss
law
> games further, I suppose we should do it off-list.
>
> -Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John
Grden
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:22 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
> And, we stand by our processes as being completely legal and within
our
> rights:
>
> http://www.osflash.org/red5/red5_legal_reasonings - read this first
>
> then this: http://www.osflash.org/red5/discovery
>
> If you have any questions, please ask on the Red5 list, we'll be happy
> to go
> over any of them as thoroughly as possible.
>
> Also, with regards to Adobe and market share, I've stated it many
times
> about where we sit. We're definitly filling in many areas as an
> alternative, but we're in no way replacing FMS and it's not our goal.
I
> don't think it's a matter of "switching" - it's a matter of what tool
> works
> best given the budget, requirements and client.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> JG
>
> On 7/11/06, hank williams <hank777-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> surrounding
> squashing
anticipated[vbcol=seagreen]
> their
> stream.
> There
year[vbcol=seagreen]
> and
> door
> that a
> by
legal.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
> -1028_3-5341625.html
> analagous
>
>
>
> --
> John Grden
> ________________________________________
_______
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>
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> http://training.figleaf.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
_______
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| |
| Stefan Richter 2006-07-12, 7:11 am |
| I just want to add: just the fact that you guys are having this discussion
would be enough for some clients (many big clients in fact) to not touch
this platform (Red5).
The legal situation is quite obviously not clear cut - or at least it will
remain so until a court makes a decision on this. Maybe this decision will
never come (that would probably be Adobe's wisest move) which in turn means
that doubts about the legality of the product will remain.
Red5 brings choice to the market and that's a good thing. I hope the product
will go a long way and I would be surprised if Adobe mounted any actions
against Red5 - it would be PR suicide, especially after they have supported
opensource Remoting solutions.
Stefan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Jay Charles
> Sent: 12 July 2006 03:14
> To: 'FlashComm Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
> This is getting too off-topic, so I've replied off list. If
> anyone else wants to keep on with this discussion, just email
> me and I'll add you to the copy list.
>
> -Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> hank williams
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:42 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
> I just am curious. What *do* you think the legal theory for a
> suit against
> red5 would be other than of the "I dont like the color of
> your hair variety". Everything you have said sort of implied
> that you have such a theory, but you havent said it, and yet
> you continue to imply that there is one. Is it only because,
> as you say, the Red5 guys put something up on their website
> talking about legal issues (which they did because people
> (who dont know anything about this area of the law) asked questions?
>
> Regards
> Hank
>
> On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> for open
> to succeed
> really
> when it comes
> The
> nothing else
> anything that
> is
> element of
> their
> really
> the future.
> I
> suits that
> be
> twice before
> the need to
> pre-defense if you
> engineering
> those
> what makes
> me
> hard thought
> to
> some sort of
> would
> about
> gavel
> is
> Pacer. I've
> pretty
> there
> whether the
> should also
> will actually
> cases
> precluding
> though I had
> cut and dry
> law
> Grden
> our
> we'll be happy
> times
> our goal.
> I
> what tool
> anticipated
> (bound as in
> threats to
> clear on this.
> year
> something for the
> point was a
> they created
> legal.
> http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara...opyrig
ht
> +case/2100
> to reverse
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
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>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
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| |
| Simon Lord 2006-07-12, 1:11 pm |
| I agree with Stefan that it would be a PR disaster to take down Red5.
There are many other ways to deal with it and PROFIT from open source
than by crushing the efforts of talented people.
My reasons are posted here in a previous thread from 2 months ago:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailma...hcomm/2006-May/
032158.html
On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:40 AM, Stefan Richter wrote:
> I just want to add: just the fact that you guys are having this
> discussion
> would be enough for some clients (many big clients in fact) to not
> touch
> this platform (Red5).
> The legal situation is quite obviously not clear cut - or at least
> it will
> remain so until a court makes a decision on this. Maybe this
> decision will
> never come (that would probably be Adobe's wisest move) which in
> turn means
> that doubts about the legality of the product will remain.
>
> Red5 brings choice to the market and that's a good thing. I hope
> the product
> will go a long way and I would be surprised if Adobe mounted any
> actions
> against Red5 - it would be PR suicide, especially after they have
> supported
> opensource Remoting solutions.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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> http://training.figleaf.com
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| |
| John Grden 2006-07-12, 1:11 pm |
| This is a great article on how for-profit companies have made BILLIONS off
of open source:
http://management.itmanagersjournal...16.shtml?tid=85
" Linux-related services deliver more than $1 billion in annual revenue to
both IBM and HP" - I think Adobe's well aware of this ;)
Read about the different strategies, and it all makes alot of sense...more
sense to adopt/embrace Open Source than it does to squelch it.
On 7/12/06, Simon Lord <slord-1+jUDDTtyItWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> I agree with Stefan that it would be a PR disaster to take down Red5.
> There are many other ways to deal with it and PROFIT from open source
> than by crushing the efforts of talented people.
>
> My reasons are posted here in a previous thread from 2 months ago:
>
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailma...hcomm/2006-May/
> 032158.html
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:40 AM, Stefan Richter wrote:
>
>
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
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>
--
John Grden
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| |
| Jake Hilton 2006-07-12, 1:11 pm |
| Steve,
Glad to hear "something"... this list has been buzzing about this tool and
then it went silent. Thank you for stepping up to clear some of the air. I
too like Bill would like to know how to get this product or be on the beta
to test this. Of course owning a license of FMS is understandable.
Thanks again,
Jake
On 7/12/06, John Grden <neoriley-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> This is a great article on how for-profit companies have made BILLIONS off
> of open source:
>
>
> http://management.itmanagersjournal...16.shtml?tid=85
>
> " Linux-related services deliver more than $1 billion in annual revenue to
> both IBM and HP" - I think Adobe's well aware of this ;)
>
> Read about the different strategies, and it all makes alot of sense...more
> sense to adopt/embrace Open Source than it does to squelch it.
>
> On 7/12/06, Simon Lord <slord-1+jUDDTtyItWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> --
> John Grden
> ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
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| |
| Brian Lesser 2006-07-12, 1:11 pm |
| Hi John,
I've read that article but am not sure it fully applies to Adobe's goals=20
for FMS. For example it is easy for a company like Oracle to embrace=20
Linux and Apache but I don't think you'll see Oracle contribute to or=20
promoting MySQL. Oracle's core business is selling database software,=20
vertical applications built on it, and support and services. In that=20
domain they compete with Open Source efforts like mysql which I assume=20
they see as a kind of "new-market disruption." To counter the disruptive=20
impact of mysql and Postgress they have released a free but limited=20
version of their own database. In other words they were forced by open=20
source initiatives to introduce their product into lower-end markets by=20
giving away a limited version of their software. They must hope that=20
this will slow down the increasingly disruptive effects of mysql on=20
their mid and higher end markets.
Whatever else Adobe may be they are a software company with a strong=20
interest in protecting their "intellectual property" (a.k.a. selling=20
software) while trying to extend the Flash platform. Like Oracle they=20
will likely choose to support Open Source projects that build the Flash=20
platform in ways that don't threaten Adobe's revenue but may threaten=20
Adobe's competitor's revenue. And like Oracle, they likely see some open=20
source initiatives as being disruptive. I would argue that Red5 is a=20
disruptive technology for Adobe's FMS and possibly Breeze. Initially the=20
impact of Red5 should be fairly minimal as the initial adopters will=20
likely be people who cannot afford FMS for one reason or another.=20
However, assuming the Red5 team can continue at its current rate of=20
progress I'd say Red5 could seriously impact FMS revenue within a year=20
or more.
So I think companies pick and choose the Open Source initiatives that=20
they feel are in their interest and the question becomes: is supporting=20
Red5 in Adobe's interest?
Adobe is not a company with just "one mind" though it appears to be=20
somewhat more disciplined than Macromedia was. I imagine there are=20
different opinions within Adobe about how to respond to Red5. FMS is not=20
a core product in the same way the Oracle database is to Oracle but it=20
is important in the larger Flash platform and I think Adobe really wants=20
to make money both by selling design and development tools and servers=20
that leverage Adobe's control of the Flash player.
Like you, I have no inside information on what Adobe plans but I can't=20
imagine how they see Red5 as anything other than disruptive. I'm not a=20
lawyer, and even if I was, could not really predict what Adobe might or=20
might not do in court. I'm always prepared to be surprised by companies=20
turning to the courts =96 even when I think there is so little basis for=20
litigation. I am still in disbelief about what is happening in the=20
patent domain. For example:
http://www.informationweek.com/soft...rticleID=3D190=
301141
And of course I have no idea what Adobe's actual agreements with On2,=20
Sorenson, and NellyMoser actually say, or what patents belonging to=20
those companies might be in play.
I think Adobe's best response is to do what Oracle is doing. Like FDS=20
they need to give away a less scalable FMS now - before Red5 starts=20
eating their lunch (even with the best intentions from the Red5 team)=20
and then eventually moves on to eating their dinner.
Yours truly,
-Brian
John Grden wrote:
> This is a great article on how for-profit companies have made BILLIONS=20
> off
> of open source:
>
> http://management.itmanagersjournal...10/2052216.sht=
ml?tid=3D85=20[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> " Linux-related services deliver more than $1 billion in annual=20
> revenue to
> both IBM and HP" - I think Adobe's well aware of this ;)
>
> Read about the different strategies, and it all makes alot of=20
> sense...more
> sense to adopt/embrace Open Source than it does to squelch it.
>
> On 7/12/06, Simon Lord <slord-1+jUDDTtyItWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
--=20
________________________________________
______________________________
Brian Lesser
Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
Computing and Communications Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St.
Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220
Office: AB48D E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org
(Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
________________________________________
______________________________
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| |
|
|
Jay,
Hi, I'm very insterested in this thread, is it too late to
subscribe? Thanks ;-)
--asai
At 07:14 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:
>This is getting too off-topic, so I've replied off list. If anyone else
>wants to keep on with this discussion, just email me and I'll add you to
>the copy list.
>
>-Jay
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of hank
>williams
>Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:42 PM
>To: FlashComm Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
>I just am curious. What *do* you think the legal theory for a suit
>against
>red5 would be other than of the "I dont like the color of your hair
>variety". Everything you have said sort of implied that you have such a
>theory, but you havent said it, and yet you continue to imply that there
>is
>one. Is it only because, as you say, the Red5 guys put something up on
>their
>website talking about legal issues (which they did because people (who
>dont
>know anything about this area of the law) asked questions?
>
>Regards
>Hank
>
>On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>really
>The
>is
>their
>really
>I
>be
>engineering
>those
>me
>to
>would
>about
>gavel
>is
>pretty
>there
>cases
>precluding
>law
>Grden
>our
>times
>I
>anticipated
>year
>legal.
>http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
> ________________________________________
_______
>FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
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>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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---asai
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| |
|
| Yes NM have a utility wich supports file format conversion between FLV,
WAV, RAW, and VOX files.
I can confirm that the price for the utility is ...puting it mildly...
Is extremely high.
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jay
Charles
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 2:34 AM
To: 'FlashComm Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
All is not lost.
I spoke with one of the fine folks at Nellymoser today, and they do in
fact have a scalable, enterprise ready application for server side flv
to mp3 conversion, in flavors for both windows and linux. It's not
cheap, but it's available. At the moment, their pricing does not seem to
be completely firm ("Let's make a deal"), so I don't think it would be
proper of me to repeat the prices I was quoted.
It might take a few contact attempts, but eventually someone from
Nellymoser will reply. I think they weren't expecting every FMS dev from
New York to Timbuktu to ask about it, and I don't think their sales team
is big enough for the volume just yet.
I expect to have an evaluation copy of the app in the next couple of
days, and I'll post comments about performance to the list once I've had
some time to play with it (the app that is, Mr. Dirty Mind).
About the utility S. Wolkoff mentioned... I'd put it out of my mind were
I you (the collective "you"). Again, I'm not comfortable repeating info
that may have been given to me in confidence so I won't go into
specifics, but don't plan on the app being released by Adobe anytime
soon (if at all). I should say that, to the best of my knowledge) this
is not due to anything on Nellymoser's side, so please don't give them a
hard time about it.
-Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Berzy
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:09 PM
To: flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>From: "Jake Hilton" <flashcomm-qux/SyskHsPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: FlashComm Mailing List <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:08 -0600
>
>Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
>
>Jake
>
>On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
weeks.[vbcol=seagreen]
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| Red5 using
Format : 0x5 => WAVE_FORMAT_IBM_CVSD
I was unable to find a tool that can convert it to something usable.
I tried FFMPEG, SoX and some other comand line tools.
-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Berzy
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:09 AM
To: flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>From: "Jake Hilton" <flashcomm-qux/SyskHsPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: FlashComm Mailing List <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:08 -0600
>
>Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
>
>Jake
>
>On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> ________________________________________
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>FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
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>
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| John Berzy 2006-07-14, 7:11 pm |
| I think we now know why the codec has not been released. Nellymoser is
charging an insane amount to be able to convert their audio to something
usable. A joke if u ask me. I hope Adobe scraps that codec in the near
future.
John
>From: INK. <ink-Gk5WRxtq7Ng@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: ink-Gk5WRxtq7Ng@public.gmane.org,FlashComm Mailing List
><flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>To: "'FlashComm Mailing List'" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
>Subject: RE: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:39:12 +0300
>
>Red5 using
>Format : 0x5 => WAVE_FORMAT_IBM_CVSD
>I was unable to find a tool that can convert it to something usable.
>I tried FFMPEG, SoX and some other comand line tools.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Berzy
>Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:09 AM
>To: flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>
>
>Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>
>
>
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>
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>http://training.figleaf.com
>
>
> ________________________________________
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