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Any experience of voip.co.uk
|
|
| Mark Adamson 2005-11-19, 5:45 pm |
| voip.co.uk have been advertising on tubes. I have had a look at their site,
and they have some decent offers, but seem to be far more closed in terms of
information than other providers like gradwell.
has anyone had any positive or negative experiences?
Thanks,
Mark
| |
| Brian A 2005-11-19, 5:45 pm |
| On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:31 -0000, "Mark Adamson"
<fliblebibble@adamsonfdfgdf.com> wrote:
>voip.co.uk have been advertising on tubes. I have had a look at their site,
>and they have some decent offers, but seem to be far more closed in terms of
>information than other providers like gradwell.
>
>has anyone had any positive or negative experiences?
>
>Thanks,
>Mark
>
No, but thanks for th epointer to the web site.
+ point:-
Their T&Cs say that they do 999 ( within expected restrictions).
-point:-
Their T&Cs also state that they can make changes, at any time, to the
T&Cs, by a posting on the web site. I really think that it is not fair
to make any price increases, for example, without alerting the
customer, by email, or otherwise, to such changes.
Is there any consumer protection in this respect?
Having said that I think that their packages are very attractive.
Having paid £1.99, for a number, it is almost on-track as a 18866
look-alike - for the first hour of a call anyway - or so it seems,
unless there is something I have missed.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
| |
|
|
"Mark Adamson" <fliblebibble@adamsonfdfgdf.com> wrote in message
news:dlnok3$1eh$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...
> voip.co.uk have been advertising on tubes. I have had a look at their
site,
> and they have some decent offers, but seem to be far more closed in terms
of
> information than other providers like gradwell.
Having looked all over the site, They dont mention if they use per second or
per minute billing.
Worth checking before signing up
Ian
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-19, 5:45 pm |
| Mark Adamson wrote:
> I have had a look at their site,
> and they have some decent offers, but seem to be far more closed in terms
> of information than other providers like gradwell.
Hi Mark,
We launched 2 days ago, so are still busy adding content to the site.
I've personally been very busy with platform development so sadly the
technical section is rather lacking [1] - something i'll be addressing very
soon.
so, what sort of information would you be interested in? i'd be more than
happy to chase up the right people internally for non-technical content to
be added, and any other questions feel free to ask me.
Kind regards,
~ Theo
1 - My responsibility, argh!
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
theo@voip.co.uk
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-19, 5:45 pm |
| "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Having looked all over the site, They dont mention if they use per second
> or per minute billing.
> Worth checking before signing up
Hi Ian,
We do per second billing (and to 1/10th penny). I'll get this added to the
site.
Kind Regards,
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
theo@voip.co.uk
| |
| Brian A 2005-11-19, 5:45 pm |
| On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:54:12 +0000, Theo Zourzouvillys
<theo@voip.co.uk> wrote:
>happy to chase up the right people internally for non-technical content to
>be added, and any other questions feel free to ask me.
>
I would just like to ask that if there are significant tariff or T&C
changes that customers are alerted by email . Even if the email does
not detail the changes a pointer ,to the relevant changes on the web
site, would be useful. It is really a matter of keeping customers
happy. If something is changed and people, unknowingly, run up more
charges than they expected then they won't be pleased. That is not
good for business.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
| |
| Brian A 2005-11-19, 5:45 pm |
| On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:42:27 GMT, Brian A
<no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:54:12 +0000, Theo Zourzouvillys
><theo@voip.co.uk> wrote:
>I would just like to ask that if there are significant tariff or T&C
>changes that customers are alerted by email . Even if the email does
>not detail the changes a pointer ,to the relevant changes on the web
>site, would be useful. It is really a matter of keeping customers
>happy. If something is changed and people, unknowingly, run up more
>charges than they expected then they won't be pleased. That is not
>good for business.
>
>
...and I forgot to ask...is it possible to connect to other voip
networks?
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-19, 8:45 pm |
| Brian A wrote:
> Their T&Cs also state that they can make changes, at any time, to the
> T&Cs, by a posting on the web site. I really think that it is not fair
> to make any price increases, for example, without alerting the
> customer, by email, or otherwise, to such changes.
> Is there any consumer protection in this respect?
Hi Brian,
I remember this came up internally, and was discussed at length; although i
can't remember exactly why these words were put in, i am positive it was
not for more sinister reasons.
We'll happily add a 'Notify me of T&C changes' (with a diff output or such)
and 'Notify me of rate changes' - and maybe in the future add support for
selecting only being notified on paticular rates changing - I'll ensure
that is added in next week.
Getting the terms and conditions themselves changed on the website will take
a little longer as they need to go via legal, but i will get the ball
rolling on monday.
> Having said that I think that their packages are very attractive.
> Having paid £1.99, for a number, it is almost on-track as a 18866
> look-alike -
I've just looked at their site, as i'd not heard of them until now - nice
idea to optionally have the per minute rate called out before the call.
this could get a little complicated with unblended rates, but something i'll
request we get time to work on.
> for the first hour of a call anyway - or so it seems,
> unless there is something I have missed.
Thinking about it, one point that is maybe not so clear (that again i will
ensure is made more clear), is that the 60 minute UK calls can only take
place 1 at a time - i.e, you couldn't use 2 SIP devices to make 2 UK calls
at the same time for free - one of them will be charged [1].
However, you can add an extra UK 'pack' to your account - so if you want to
be able to make 2 calls at the same time and only pay the 2p/free for the
second call for up to 60 mins for both, you can buy an extra 'pack' at the
£1.99/mon or 19.99/year inc VAT.
Other than that, I hope we've made everyhting clear on the site (minus the
few thigns that have been pointed out, which i will ensure are resolved),
so there shouldn't be anything you've missed.
On a closing note; voip.co.uk is not about cheap calls (althoguh our call
rates are low). we've been working for a long time on building an
impressive SIP platform that we can use to develop innovative new features
and push the real advantages that VoIP brings over PSTN within the UK (and
that doesn't just mean cheap calls!)
~ theo
1 - I'm already working on an optional message being played before any calls
that match this case.
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
theo@voip.co.uk
| |
| {{{{{Welcome}}}}} 2005-11-19, 8:45 pm |
| Thus spaketh Theo Zourzouvillys:
>
> I've just looked at their site, as i'd not heard of them until now -
> nice idea to optionally have the per minute rate called out before
> the call.
>
Very surprised you haven't heard of 18866, been going a couple of years, well
known to us newsgroup and many forum board users.
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-20, 2:45 am |
| Brian A wrote:
> ..and I forgot to ask...is it possible to connect to other voip
> networks?
Not currently, however i'm hoping this will happen soon ;)
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
theo@voip.co.uk
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-20, 2:45 am |
| {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
> Very surprised you haven't heard of 18866, been going a couple of years,
> well known to us newsgroup and many forum board users.
not used nntp since 2000 according to google ;)
~ theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
| |
| Robert Cole 2005-11-20, 7:45 am |
| I tried to register last night, i got as far as receiving my verification
code & a link to click which i did & it came back invalid link so i gave up
in the end.
"Theo Zourzouvillys" <theo@voip.co.uk> wrote in message
news:437fbfbc.0@entanet...
> Brian A wrote:
>
>
> Not currently, however i'm hoping this will happen soon ;)
>
> ~ Theo
>
> --
> Theo Zourzouvillys
> Lead Technical Architect
> theo@voip.co.uk
>
>
| |
|
| Robert Cole wrote:
> I tried to register last night, i got as far as receiving my verification
> code & a link to click which i did & it came back invalid link so i gave up
> in the end.
I've just this minute registered. I didn't go by the link in the email
though, for the verification process - just kept the browser window open
and input the code directly.
| |
| Robert Cole 2005-11-20, 7:45 am |
| this is all im getting now "Your account is currently being set up. You will
be sent an email once your account is ready for use"
I also had this last night, how long does it normally take for an account to
be set up?
"PL" <neatripple.@.lineone.dot.co.dot.uk> wrote in message
news:11o0of17ot4gk8b@corp.supernews.com...
> Robert Cole wrote:
>
> I've just this minute registered. I didn't go by the link in the email
> though, for the verification process - just kept the browser window open
> and input the code directly.
>
| |
|
| Robert Cole wrote:
> this is all im getting now "Your account is currently being set up. You will
> be sent an email once your account is ready for use"
>
> I also had this last night, how long does it normally take for an account to
> be set up?
I got my order confirmation and account access at 12.45pm today. If you
email support, I think you'll get a response today
| |
| Brian A 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
| On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:03:46 +0000, PL
<neatripple.@.lineone.dot.co.dot.uk> wrote:
>Robert Cole wrote:
>
>I got my order confirmation and account access at 12.45pm today. If you
>email support, I think you'll get a response today
Got my number working fine in and out.
Only problem I am getting is tha twhen I call a number I don't hear it
ring.
Could it be something wrong with my settings?
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
| |
| Brian A 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
| On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:22:04 GMT, Brian A
<no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:03:46 +0000, PL
><neatripple.@.lineone.dot.co.dot.uk> wrote:
>
>Got my number working fine in and out.
>Only problem I am getting is tha twhen I call a number I don't hear it
>ring.
>Could it be something wrong with my settings?
>
Further to my last post...it is now ringing - American style though
and I haven't altered my settings. Strange.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
| |
|
|
"PL" <neatripple.@.lineone.dot.co.dot.uk> wrote in message
news:11o0of17ot4gk8b@corp.supernews.com...
> Robert Cole wrote:
>
> I've just this minute registered. I didn't go by the link in the email
> though, for the verification process - just kept the browser window
> open and input the code directly.
I tried registering to check out the system, and reliability. I put in
all my details, which it accepted, and only then did it say I had to
deposit a minimum of £10 to use it, even though it keeps stating on the
website about free phone calls. I politely made my excuses and left, but
there was nowhere to cancel my details at that stage. 2/10
| |
| Robert Cole 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
| I didnt go through with it in the end id rather test a service 1st before
paying for it straight away, ill stick with sipdiscount & voipcheap.
"GwG" <sorrythisdoesntwork@guess.uk.co> wrote in message
news:xE0gf.23401$mF5.6022@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "PL" <neatripple.@.lineone.dot.co.dot.uk> wrote in message
> news:11o0of17ot4gk8b@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I tried registering to check out the system, and reliability. I put in all
> my details, which it accepted, and only then did it say I had to deposit a
> minimum of £10 to use it, even though it keeps stating on the website
> about free phone calls. I politely made my excuses and left, but there was
> nowhere to cancel my details at that stage. 2/10
>
>
| |
| paul123 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
|
Robert Cole wrote:
> I didnt go through with it in the end id rather test a service 1st before
> paying for it straight away, ill stick with sipdiscount & voipcheap.
[vbcol=seagreen]
all[vbcol=seagreen]
t a[vbcol=seagreen]
was[vbcol=seagreen]
I agree and I suspect a lot of people will want a "try before they
buy". I got to the same stage as you Robert. Certainly the rates are
very good for the UK package. If I could try it, I'd probably buy
it.....
Theo, you guys might want to bear this in mind. Also, the only setup
instructions I found on the site were for Asterisk users. Not all of us
use Asterisk... Perhaps some configurations for the more popular SIP
phones/ATAs might help?
my 2Ps worth
Paul
| |
|
| On 2005-11-19, Mark Adamson <fliblebibble@adamsonfdfgdf.com> wrote:
>
> voip.co.uk have been advertising on tubes. I have had a look at their site,
> and they have some decent offers, but seem to be far more closed in terms of
> information than other providers like gradwell.
>
> has anyone had any positive or negative experiences?
The website is laid out well and information on what is on offer is
readily available overall. I'm not too sure the mixing of nouns and
adjectives on the picture of the swan works terribly well as a marketing
device.
The price plans and services are attractive and the automatic provision
of a geographic number is a good feature. Being able to use your own
ATA or, I suppose, a softphone is also a plus point.
Subscription to the service appears to be confined to subscribers
residing in the UK as the initial part of the signup procedure asks for
a UK telephone number. The form accepts 01/02/08 and mobile numbers but
is very unhappy with 056 xxxx xxxx and asserts it is an invalid UK
contact number. That's rather ironic, considering all the work Ofcom
has put in.
Having been sent a validation code to continue the registration process
you are eventually invited to purchase calling credit. 0 GBP is not an
option offered. The Price Plans page should make it clear that there is
a pre-pay requirement involved in being able complete registration.
The free of charge aspect for telephone calls between users of the same
service is stressed but, in common with many other VoIP providers, there
is no indication of whether a VoIP.co.uk subscriber can receive an
incoming SIP call from any SIP phone.
Brian.
| |
|
| Brian wrote:
> On 2005-11-19, Mark Adamson <fliblebibble@adamsonfdfgdf.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The website is laid out well and information on what is on offer is
> readily available overall. I'm not too sure the mixing of nouns and
> adjectives on the picture of the swan works terribly well as a marketing
> device.
>
> The price plans and services are attractive and the automatic provision
> of a geographic number is a good feature. Being able to use your own
> ATA or, I suppose, a softphone is also a plus point.
>
> Subscription to the service appears to be confined to subscribers
> residing in the UK as the initial part of the signup procedure asks for
> a UK telephone number. The form accepts 01/02/08 and mobile numbers but
> is very unhappy with 056 xxxx xxxx and asserts it is an invalid UK
> contact number. That's rather ironic, considering all the work Ofcom
> has put in.
>
> Having been sent a validation code to continue the registration process
> you are eventually invited to purchase calling credit. 0 GBP is not an
> option offered. The Price Plans page should make it clear that there is
> a pre-pay requirement involved in being able complete registration.
>
> The free of charge aspect for telephone calls between users of the same
> service is stressed but, in common with many other VoIP providers, there
> is no indication of whether a VoIP.co.uk subscriber can receive an
> incoming SIP call from any SIP phone.
>
> Brian.
I've been in touch with their support for most of the afternoon and
found Theo to be a really helpful chap. I think you'll find that the
website details have/will be changed to show that:
- anyone purchasing an all inclusive plan won't be requested to make a
£10 credit purchase
- anyone purchasing the MTA hardware will get the Optional UK Pack for
free (first year @ £19.99)
| |
|
| On 2005-11-20, PL <neatripple> wrote:
>
> Brian wrote:
[Snip][vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I've been in touch with their support for most of the afternoon and
> found Theo to be a really helpful chap. I think you'll find that the
> website details have/will be changed to show that:
>
> - anyone purchasing an all inclusive plan won't be requested to make a
> £10 credit purchase
>
> - anyone purchasing the MTA hardware will get the Optional UK Pack for
> free (first year @ £19.99)
The need to purchase at least 10 GBP of calling credit if neither of
these options is taken is also now displayed in the residential plan.
So that's a top banana award to Theo for a quick response. And to you,
of course, for your time and involvement.
That Optional UK Pack must be very tempting for many people. At 2p per
call at peak times a 10 GBP investment would have the potential to last
a long time if calls take less than 60 minutes. The incoming geographic
number is also worth at least 2 GBP a month so that might make this
offering one of the best about at the present time.
Brian.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
|
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dlqglj$ecm$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
[snip]
> That Optional UK Pack must be very tempting for many
> people. At 2p per call at peak times a 10 GBP investment
> would have the potential to last a long time if calls
> take less than 60 minutes. The incoming geographic
> number is also worth at least 2 GBP a month so that might
> make this offering one of the best about at the present
> time.
I have 4 geographic numbers that don't cost me anything at all. This
system looks ok but I'm reluctant to commit money just to try it.
Ivor
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
| GwG wrote:
> I tried registering to check out the system, and reliability. I put in
> all my details, which it accepted, and only then did it say I had to
> deposit a minimum of £10 to use it, even though it keeps stating on the
> website about free phone calls.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Based upon it, we have:
(a) Removed the requirement for purchasing calling credit when a pack
which includes inclusive minutes is being purchased.
(b) Made it clear on the main site that you must purchase a mimumim of
£10.00 calling credit when you sign up without inclusive minutes.
(c) Noted that purchasing the VoIP.co.uk Ethernet MTA + Speedtouch includes
the UK pack free for a year.
Note that one of the reasons behind this requirement is that we need to be
able to verify a customer is who they say they are, not because we're going
to take you're money then run away :-) Using a credit card is the simplest
way of doign this; although we are lookign into other more advanced ways in
the near future once we introduce paperless direct debit for
residental/soho customers.
As always - send any comments to theo@voip.co.uk, and i'll filter them into
the right place within the company if i can't handle them directly.
Kind regards,
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
theo@voip.co.uk
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
| Brian wrote:
Hi Brian,
> The website is laid out well and information on what is on offer is
> readily available overall. I'm not too sure the mixing of nouns and
> adjectives on the picture of the swan works terribly well as a marketing
> device.
Yes - i would have to agree with that (althoguh with the rather ill looking
yellow signup box  ).
> The price plans and services are attractive and the automatic provision
> of a geographic number is a good feature. Being able to use your own
> ATA or, I suppose, a softphone is also a plus point.
>
> Subscription to the service appears to be confined to subscribers
> residing in the UK as the initial part of the signup procedure asks for
> a UK telephone number.
Indeed we do not currently allow non UK residents [1]. I *think* the plan
is a non-UK version after christmas, once we've sorted out a few legal
issues.
> The form accepts 01/02/08 and mobile numbers but
> is very unhappy with 056 xxxx xxxx and asserts it is an invalid UK
> contact number. That's rather ironic, considering all the work Ofcom
> has put in.
Heh, blame me - that's now been fixed.
> Having been sent a validation code to continue the registration process
> you are eventually invited to purchase calling credit. 0 GBP is not an
> option offered. The Price Plans page should make it clear that there is
> a pre-pay requirement involved in being able complete registration.
Take a peek at <4380aece.0@entanet> - we've just changed this based upon
comments.
> The free of charge aspect for telephone calls between users of the same
> service is stressed but, in common with many other VoIP providers, there
> is no indication of whether a VoIP.co.uk subscriber can receive an
> incoming SIP call from any SIP phone.
Well, i can "unofficially" add accepting offnet/pstn to
<phonenumber>@voip.co.uk to hunt in the same way as calls from the PSTN do
(providing the UAC supports SRV) as an experimental option (can't turn it
on by default due to security issues of displaying any CLID to our users).
Obviously we can't make any garuntees about the calls working due to the
other end, but i'll happily personally handle any reports of issues -
althoguh they will not nessiceraly have the same response time as support@
will for the time being. If there is enough interest, then i'll see if i
can push it as an offically supported feature.
on a related note, we will be offering a SIP <username>@voip.co.uk
redirection service at some point too, although obviously revenue
generating products are of a higher priority right now.
~ Theo
1 - potential fraud/legalities suddently get a lot more complicated when we
offer services outside of the UK
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
theo@voip.co.uk
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
| On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:10:50 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>I have 4 geographic numbers that don't cost me anything at all. This
>system looks ok but I'm reluctant to commit money just to try it.
Same here. The call charges are better than sipgate's but the £10 up
front stops me registering just to try it.
If I could pay monthly in arrears by direct debit, I'd go for it
straight away.
--
Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
| |
|
| On 2005-11-20, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> I have 4 geographic numbers that don't cost me anything at all. This
> system looks ok but I'm reluctant to commit money just to try it.
It is the Optional UK package which intrigues me with this company. It
is just that bit different from what is sold by other providers, so
surely it is worth a second look.
Let's consider someone who, like yourself, needs four geographic
numbers. She would pay 20 GBP per year plus 6 GBP to have the
additional three numbers set up. I'm assuming voip.co.uk would let her
have three more numbers.
Phone usage is hard to estimate but say she makes ten calls lasting, on
average, five minutes each during peak time. That would cost 10 GBP for
a fifty week year. Someone else who was charged 1.2p per minute would
pay 30 GBP during the same period.
So that's a total of 36 GBP as opposed to 30 GBP, which is not such a
vast differnce. And that difference would vanish if both people spent
the same amount of time on the phone in the evening and at weekends.
If she was canny she could have one number from voip.co.uk and get the
extra numbers from a provider who included them as a free element in an
account. She would have to be making little use of the PSTN for her not
to be on a winner.
So, the cost of a geographic number is only one of the factors in
choosing a VoIP provider.
Brian.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-20, 5:45 pm |
|
<hairydog@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:89l1o1p4pttuir7r556qbm0s45p1lqnmrb@
4ax.com
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:10:50 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> Same here. The call charges are better than sipgate's but
> the £10 up front stops me registering just to try it.
Also there are not (as yet, anyway) any peering agreements with Sipgate or
any other company come to that.
> If I could pay monthly in arrears by direct debit, I'd go
> for it straight away.
I'd rather be able to sign up for free and make calls to other SIP users
as I can with Sipgate before committing money for PSTN calls.
Ivor
| |
|
| On 2005-11-20, Theo Zourzouvillys <theo@voip.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Brian wrote:
>
>
> Heh, blame me - that's now been fixed.
By way of atonement would you indicate how 056 numbers are charged? Are
they at the same rate as 01/02 numbers and included in the UK pack?
Brian.
| |
|
| On 2005-11-20, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
><hairydog@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:89l1o1p4pttuir7r556qbm0s45p1lqnmrb@
4ax.com
>
> Also there are not (as yet, anyway) any peering agreements with Sipgate or
> any other company come to that.
There may be a degree of inconvenience involved because there is more
typing to do or more keys to press, but in what other way does a lack of
peering matter? It doesn't prevent a call being made to Sipgate from a
phone registered with voip.co.uk.
Brian.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-20, 8:45 pm |
|
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dlr2d6$1vl$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk
> On 2005-11-20, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> There may be a degree of inconvenience involved because
> there is more typing to do or more keys to press, but in
> what other way does a lack of peering matter? It doesn't
> prevent a call being made to Sipgate from a phone
> registered with voip.co.uk.
How do I make a call to a network with no peering from an extension off an
analogue PABX which is in turn plugged into an ATA..? With peering, I just
dial the required access code followed by the SIP ID. Where does typing
come into it..?
Ivor
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-11-20, 8:45 pm |
| On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:01:38 +0000, Theo Zourzouvillys
<theo@voip.co.uk> wrote:
>we need to be
>able to verify a customer is who they say they are, not because we're going
>to take you're money then run away :-) Using a credit card is the simplest
>way of doign this
The trouble for customers is that payment by Credit Card is not as
safe as by Direct Debit. If it was possible to pay by DD after a small
one-off initial payment by credit card I'd personally feel happier.
I'm not sure it's clear why business tariffs are more expensive than
residential. But then again, during the course of the day the business
tariff details seem to have disappeared from the site.
One other thing: it is not clear whether it is possible to add the
Optional UK at a later date, and I didn't see any "inclusive minutes"
packs listed on the signup page. I discovered that the UK addon
counts, but that isn't clear.
Now I've signed up, outgoing calls seem fine, but incoming calls fail
because "the number you have dialled has not been recognised"
--
Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-11-20, 8:45 pm |
| On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 21:27:08 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>I'd rather be able to sign up for free and make calls to other SIP users
>as I can with Sipgate before committing money for PSTN calls.
Doesn't bother me at all. I never call other IP numbers anyway.
--
Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
| |
|
| On 2005-11-21, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dlr2d6$1vl$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk
>
> How do I make a call to a network with no peering from an extension off an
> analogue PABX which is in turn plugged into an ATA..? With peering, I just
> dial the required access code followed by the SIP ID. Where does typing
> come into it..?
One way (there are other methods):
To phone <SIP ID>@sipgate.co.uk dial <SIP ID>@217.10.79.219.
For @ and . the * key is often used but I do not know if that is so for
all hardphones. Works only when the SIP ID is numerical and has the
disadvantage that the IP number of sipgate.co.uk may change. But it
works.
Typing is involved with a softphone. They generally have a box in which
to put the SIP URL (<SIP ID>@sipgate.co.uk). This is probably as quick
as the peering arrangement you describe.
Brian.
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-20, 8:45 pm |
| hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
> Same here. The call charges are better than sipgate's but the £10 up
> front stops me registering just to try it.
>
> If I could pay monthly in arrears by direct debit, I'd go for it
> straight away.
[taking my work hat off]
Although companies like voip.co.uk can offer post-pay services (be it
DD/CC/SO/Cheque/Transfer/whatever) for residential/soho services, it all
boils down to a verification; there is a large risk in providing credit to
users when you can't verify where/who they are.
So .. there are a number of technical (and not so technical) solutions to
verify a customer without human interventiaon. however i'm not sure
potential customers like yourself would be happy with any of them they're
all a pain in the arse. Some of the ones that spring to mind were:
(1) Send confirmation letter with 'pin' type to your address
- Not immediate, and postal system is anything but reliable
(2) Referal scheme/"chain-of-trust"
- Difficult to implement correctly + PITA for customers
(3) Phone verification
- Would only be able to verify from number ranges allocated to
BT/NTL/Telewest, and Kingston ... even then still unreliable.
(4) Credit Check with equifax/experian
- Costs per check, so increases costs.
(5) Require X setup fee/first month charge by card
- Problem here is cc fraud, there is effectvly a month window between
when you get auth (on a recently stolen card), and then a month
until the card comes back as declined when you try to take the
months payment.. by which time the user has run up a bill and you
discover it's stolen.
.... so, what would you, as the consumer be happy with in order for a company
to verify that you really exist, and are where you say you are - and give
you credit?
I personally like (1), as it will work for everyone. At the end of the day
if you can't make outgoign calls for a few days, this isn't really such a
problem - you often have to wait with BT to get your phone line turned on,
SIM cards to arrive, etc.
... thoguhts?
~ theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
http://crazygreek.co.uk/
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-20, 8:45 pm |
| Brian wrote:
> I'm assuming voip.co.uk would let her
> have three more numbers.
Numbers incur a 2 pound setup fee per number - no monthly/yearly cost after
that.
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
http://crazygreek.co.uk/
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-21, 2:45 am |
| hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
> One question that may be answered in the website, but I didn't see it:
>
> Is a second phone number at £1.99 a one-off charge, and will it simply
> work the same as the first number, sharing any bundled call minutes
> and the tariff?
Yes, numbers are £2.00 extra setup cost, and no ongoing fee after that.
They share the same billing account and bundles as the other number.
When developing the products, we tried to keep everyhting as seperate as
possible (numbers, bundles, etc) so that people can get a close a match at
possbile for that they want, rather than forcing only 1 or 2 distinct
products.
However, somethign i mentioned in an earlier post:
Thinking about it, one point that is maybe not so clear (that again i will
ensure is made more clear), is that the 60 minute UK calls can only take
place 1 at a time - i.e, you couldn't use 2 SIP devices to make 2 UK calls
at the same time for free - one of them will be charged [1].
However, you can add an extra UK 'pack' to your account - so if you want to
be able to make 2 calls at the same time and only pay the 2p/free for the
second call for up to 60 mins for both, you can buy an extra 'pack' at the
£1.99/mon or 19.99/year inc VAT.
> I see that the company offering this service is called VOIP-4U. Rather
> similar to "Phones 4U" who don't have the best of reputations. Very
> similar to VOIP4U which appears to be an entirely different company,
> which is a "business for sale" franchise arrangement as far as I can
> see.
>
> I'm pretty sure that there is no connection between these
> similarly-named companies (I notice that there are no shared
> directors)
Absolutly not - no connection in the slightest..
> so it might be a good idea to make that more clear on the
> web site.
we are considering renaming the company for the very reason you mentioned
above ;)
Kind regards,
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
| |
| Lansbury 2005-11-21, 2:45 am |
| On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:38:41 +0000, Theo Zourzouvillys <theo@voip.co.uk>
wrote:
>Indeed we do not currently allow non UK residents
Is that just to sign up, or to use the service as well.
I am thinking of the situation where someone is resident in the UK now but
would like to keep the UK number when they move overseas. Would you be happy
for them to continue using the service then.
-
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup
| |
| hairydog@despammed.com 2005-11-21, 7:45 am |
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:34:10 +0000, hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
>Now I've signed up, outgoing calls seem fine, but incoming calls fail
>because "the number you have dialled has not been recognised"
Theo has emailed me and identified a configuration setting I'd not
entered correctly. Now I've fixed that, incoming calls work just fine.
So the problem was user error.
So far, I have been very impressed by the service and the level of
support. If it continue to be as good, they're going to be onto a
winner!
--
Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
| |
|
|
<hairydog@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:us23o151ar9akhcoh6cn767agndl9f2r1d@
4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:00:47 +0000, Theo Zourzouvillys
> <theo@crazygreek.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not so sure. I like the speed of setup that missing the postal
> stage gives.
>
> How about simply limiting the call spend to (say) £1 until the
> pin-in-the-post turns up? That way you can be up and running in one
> go, but the company is not taking much of a risk.
>
> --
> Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
> http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
Surely pre-pay (as it is now) and verification by letter (with a delay in
provision) could be a choice for the applicant?
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-21, 7:45 am |
|
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dlr5jt$33v$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
[snip]
> One way (there are other methods):
>
> To phone <SIP ID>@sipgate.co.uk dial <SIP
> ID>@217.10.79.219.
>
> For @ and . the * key is often used but I do not know if
> that is so for all hardphones. Works only when the SIP
> ID is numerical and has the disadvantage that the IP
> number of sipgate.co.uk may change. But it works.
>
> Typing is involved with a softphone. They generally have
> a box in which to put the SIP URL (<SIP
> ID>@sipgate.co.uk). This is probably as quick as the
> peering arrangement you describe.
>
> Brian.
Thanks, I'll give that a try. Now, how do I find out the IP addresses of
all the networks <g>
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-21, 7:45 am |
|
<hairydog@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:sh52o1tl50civufqn1rh5tpaqj7vd0hjk0@
4ax.com
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 21:27:08 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> Doesn't bother me at all. I never call other IP numbers
> anyway.
That's the difference, I rarely call PSTN numbers, most of my friends also
use Sipgate, one or two are on FWD. I use my mobile to make most of my
PSTN calls a I get plenty of inclusive minutes, although this may change
when I terminate my Orange contract at the end of this month (see my post
on uk.t.m)
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-21, 7:45 am |
|
"Theo Zourzouvillys" <theo@crazygreek.co.uk> wrote in
message news:4380f4eb.0@entanet
> hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
>
>
> [taking my work hat off]
>
> Although companies like voip.co.uk can offer post-pay
> services (be it DD/CC/SO/Cheque/Transfer/whatever) for
> residential/soho services, it all boils down to a
> verification; there is a large risk in providing credit
> to users when you can't verify where/who they are.
>
> So .. there are a number of technical (and not so
> technical) solutions to verify a customer without human
> interventiaon. however i'm not sure potential customers
> like yourself would be happy with any of them they're all
> a pain in the arse. Some of the ones that spring to mind
> were:
[list snipped]
That all sounds ok, but what's wrong with Sipgate's system of being able
to register an account with no credit and using it to make calls to other
SIP numbers, only adding credit if calls to PSTN are required..?
I would like to be able to try a service without committing money. If I
like it, fine but if I don't...?
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-11-21, 7:45 am |
|
"Lansbury" <lansbury@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:rl13o1he1o2pc5p0cqbpf0dio7pls2d9gs@
4ax.com
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:38:41 +0000, Theo Zourzouvillys
> <theo@voip.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Is that just to sign up, or to use the service as well.
>
> I am thinking of the situation where someone is resident
> in the UK now but would like to keep the UK number when
> they move overseas. Would you be happy for them to
> continue using the service then.
While it might be technically possible to prevent this (IP ranges etc) it
would serve no practical value. One of the selling points if you like of
VoIP is to be able to have a number in a different area/country from where
you live. Sipgate even advertise this fact on their website. I've used my
accounts from the US with no problems at all.
A lot of the problems with providing numbers outside the applicant's area
of residence are legal rather than technical. While in the UK (or from
elsewhere if you use a UK IP address) you can get a number from any area
code from Sipgate, in Germany for example the government don't allow this
and to get a local German number you have to be able to prove residence.
You can get the equivalent of a UK 0870 i.e. non-geographical German
number if you live in the UK, but you can't get (say) a Berlin number
unless you live there. That's down to the German government not the VoIP
providers.
Ivor
| |
| Brian A 2005-11-21, 5:45 pm |
| Would I be right in saying that the voicemail isn't working yet?
I can't find a number to check voice mail and if I call my number it
rings for about 20 seconds and than drops out.
Looks like I'll have to dig out my old answering machine.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
| |
| Lansbury 2005-11-21, 5:45 pm |
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:11:28 -0000, "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid>
wrote:
>While it might be technically possible to prevent this (IP ranges etc) it
>would serve no practical value. One of the selling points if you like of
>VoIP is to be able to have a number in a different area/country from where
>you live. Sipgate even advertise this fact on their website. I've used my
>accounts from the US with no problems at all.
Which in no-way addresses the question asked which was would voip.co.uk be
willing to provide a service in these circumstances. I am aware of the
advantages of VoIP which is why the phone for my house in Oregon is connected
to my router in London.
-
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup
| |
|
| On 2005-11-21, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dlr5jt$33v$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Thanks, I'll give that a try. Now, how do I find out the IP addresses of
> all the networks <g>
That depends on the tools which are available to you. I'd use ping,
host or traceroute.
Brian.
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-22, 2:45 am |
| Lansbury wrote:
>
> Is that just to sign up, or to use the service as well.
As long as the customer provides a credit card registered in the UK, and the
address where they *currently* live is within the UK, then there would be
no problem for them to take the device abroad (i do for example, when i go
to greece to visit family).
However, because 999/112 would no longer work correctly, we will need to
amend our terms and conditions to allow this (and probably a couple of
other things), and possibly even requiring the customer to notify us that
they are removing the device from the UK so we can disable 999 for the
account.
They are being amended this week based upon feedback at the end of last
week, so i'll ensure we have a clause added for this to.
> I am thinking of the situation where someone is resident in the UK now but
> would like to keep the UK number when they move overseas. Would you be
> happy for them to continue using the service then.
So in short, yes, with a few T&C changes.
The customer must still however initially live within the UK when
registering for services, for the time being.
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-22, 2:45 am |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> That all sounds ok, but what's wrong with Sipgate's system of being able
> to register an account with no credit and using it to make calls to other
> SIP numbers, only adding credit if calls to PSTN are required..?
I will suggest this.
> I would like to be able to try a service without committing money. If I
> like it, fine but if I don't...?
Once we provide the <username>@voip.co.uk location/redirct service, you
would anyway for all practical purposes be able to do this, minus RTP
proxying if you are calling an off-net SIP account.
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
| |
| Mark Adamson 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| >
> We launched 2 days ago, so are still busy adding content to the site.
Hi Theo,
I have become aware of this now. Am I correct in hearing that you have been
advertising on tubes? It seems a little early days for that, you don't want
to become a Bulldog ADSL.
>
> I've personally been very busy with platform development so sadly the
> technical section is rather lacking [1] - something i'll be addressing
> very
> soon.
>
> so, what sort of information would you be interested in? i'd be more than
> happy to chase up the right people internally for non-technical content to
> be added, and any other questions feel free to ask me.
It wasn't that I wanted more technical information, more clarification on
the different call plans. I found it difficult to understand the distinction
between SOHO and Residential as they were not clearly sectioned off.
Also, it was only when signing up that I discovered the option to upgrade a
SOHO account with the £2 a month for 2p call capping facility. This is a big
bonus and should be prominent (or at least available) in the earlier
information.
Also, at the time I did not take up this facility as I am just testing out
the service before I recommend it to a client of mine. There seems to be no
place in my account that I can see how to upgrade to this service. I also
cannot find what my call credit is, or what service I am signed up for (i.e.
SOHO), in my account section.
Thanks for your service though, I have enjoyed reading your personal
website, and your cv speaks for itself.
Mark
| |
|
| It's not overly clear if the =A310 minimum credit is a one-off payment
or a monthly requirement.
Can this be clarified on the website please?
Many thanks
Matthew
| |
| Mark Adamson 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| > so, what sort of information would you be interested in? i'd be more than
> happy to chase up the right people internally for non-technical content to
> be added, and any other questions feel free to ask me.
To add to my earlier email, I cannot find information on how to access
voicemail both from my voip phone and from another phone. I have even done a
google search of 'voicemail site:voip.co.uk'
Mark
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-22, 7:45 am |
| Mark Adamson wrote:
> To add to my earlier email, I cannot find information on how to access
> voicemail both from my voip phone and from another phone. I have even done
> a google search of 'voicemail site:voip.co.uk'
121!
I've already requested it gets added to the site.
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
| |
|
|
"Matt" <matthew.humphreys@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132658950.188016.147770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
It's not overly clear if the £10 minimum credit is a one-off payment
or a monthly requirement.
Can this be clarified on the website please?
Many thanks
Matthew
*********************
Works on asterisk too!
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-11-22, 5:45 pm |
| Mark Adamson <fliblebibble@adamsonfdfgdf.com> wrote:
> voip.co.uk have been advertising on tubes. I have had a look at their site,
> and they have some decent offers, but seem to be far more closed in terms of
> information than other providers like gradwell.
>
> has anyone had any positive or negative experiences?
Well, the sign up seemed painless enough and the service was online as
soon as I'd configured my ATA (a non-VoIP.co.uk one), so that's a good
start.
One request/suggestion: I find annonymous caller rejection quite useful,
any chance of adding that feature at some point?
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
|
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> <hairydog@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:89l1o1p4pttuir7r556qbm0s45p1lqnmrb@
4ax.com
>
> Also there are not (as yet, anyway) any peering agreements with Sipgate or
> any other company come to that.
Peering agreements are merely a historical artifact, and shouldn't be
necessary with a decent SIP client [be it hardphone, PBX or ATA]. To be
honest, I'm surprised VoIP telcos don't charge for peering, because it must
be a nightmare to set up and maintain.
--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (gebssnfxl@ubgznvy.pbz) (sip:6012@ale.cx)
20:14:10 up 19 days, 23:49, 3 users, load average: 0.29, 0.54, 0.68
This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
| |
| Theo Zourzouvillys 2005-11-23, 7:45 am |
| Dave Gill wrote:
> One request/suggestion: I find annonymous caller rejection quite useful,
> any chance of adding that feature at some point?
Sure - i'll ensure it's announced to the new services notification list, so
you might want to make sure you're on it (in your account settings)!
~ Theo
--
Theo Zourzouvillys
Lead Technical Architect
http://voip.co.uk/
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-11-23, 5:45 pm |
| Theo Zourzouvillys <theo@voip.co.uk> wrote:
> Dave Gill wrote:
>
>
> Sure - i'll ensure it's announced to the new services notification list, so
> you might want to make sure you're on it (in your account settings)!
Thanks for that, I'm on the list.
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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