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Home > Archive > Voice Over IP in UK > June 2005 > What am I failing to "get" about VOIP??
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What am I failing to "get" about VOIP??
|
|
| digitaltoast@gmail.com 2005-06-08, 7:45 am |
| I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only =A39.99/month".
That is approximately 16 calls per day I'd HAVE to make before I broke
even.
Plus, I'd have to have the PC on, a =A325 handset (that's 1250 calls via
a normal phone), and be using my broadband connection, all for a call
who's quality is someone dubious. If I was making over 16 calls per
day, I'd probably be a business, in which case I'd probably be on a
better value unlimited plan anyway.
I've looked at the costs and comparison sites over and over again, but
when I can pick up an ordinary phone and talk for hours for 2p via
18866, or
2p/minute to NZ/Aus/USA, I just can't make it break even. And by the
time it has, it'll probably be obsolete!
I'm lost with this one - it's the same as with 3G...someone invented
it,
people seem to want it, but no-one (and I mean no-one) has yet actually
told
me that they've found a use for paying to watch postage stamp size
music
videos! Or that poor people would want to pay =A33/week to have a crazy
frog...
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-08, 7:45 am |
|
<digitaltoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118224711.340014.308360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".
That is approximately 16 calls per day I'd HAVE to make before I broke
even.
Plus, I'd have to have the PC on, a £25 handset (that's 1250 calls via
a normal phone), and be using my broadband connection, all for a call
who's quality is someone dubious. If I was making over 16 calls per
day, I'd probably be a business, in which case I'd probably be on a
better value unlimited plan anyway.
I've looked at the costs and comparison sites over and over again, but
when I can pick up an ordinary phone and talk for hours for 2p via
18866, or
2p/minute to NZ/Aus/USA, I just can't make it break even. And by the
time it has, it'll probably be obsolete!
I'm lost with this one - it's the same as with 3G...someone invented
it,
people seem to want it, but no-one (and I mean no-one) has yet actually
told
me that they've found a use for paying to watch postage stamp size
music
videos! Or that poor people would want to pay £3/week to have a crazy
frog...
--------------------------------------
I'm obviously a bit of a nutter!
I have a UK number for each of my phones. So, all the family have a DDI. I
also have one number that rings all phones.
I pay nothing for the (virtual) lines. If I wanted to replicate this on
traditional lines, I'd be paying around £50 per month just for the rentals.
I was paying for three POTS lines. With "Free Calls" packages, I was paying
£45 per month.
I have naked broadband (cable), so therefore do not have any phone line
rental to pay.
I can ring other family members who use VOIP for nothing.
What's not to get?
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-08, 7:45 am |
| On 8 Jun 2005 02:58:31 -0700, digitaltoast@gmail.com wrote:
>That is approximately 16 calls per day I'd HAVE to make before I broke
>even.
I must have made at least 20 calls between noon and midnight yesterday
and I don't have a business.
>I've looked at the costs and comparison sites over and over again, but
>when I can pick up an ordinary phone and talk for hours for 2p via
>18866, or
>2p/minute to NZ/Aus/USA, I just can't make it break even. And by the
>time it has, it'll probably be obsolete!
The big thing for me about VOIP is the fact that one can loose all the
obtrusive cabling that is part and parcel of having fixed line phones
.. I have four phone lines have had for a number of years but it is
only in the last six months that I have been able to rid my property
of the nasty cabling that came with them .
All I have now entering the house and running round the skirting
boards are the Telewest broadband and TV cable and the TW phone cable
the phone cable also be Shawn the door come the 12th of next month.
The cables associated with our computers also annoy me but there is
sod all I can do about those .
| |
|
| digitaltoast@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
> saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".
You are missing nothing. With the competitive market in the UK and
things like CPS there is not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
parts of the world. Even BT 21CN will only replace the 'trunk'
connections with VoIP - your line to the house is likely to stay TDM for
a while to come yet.
Matt.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-06-08, 5:45 pm |
|
"Matt" <usenet@banana.org.uk> wrote in message
news:42a6d2ff$0$22628$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
> digitaltoast@gmail.com wrote:
>
> You are missing nothing. With the competitive market in the UK and
> things like CPS there is not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
> parts of the world. Even BT 21CN will only replace the 'trunk'
> connections with VoIP - your line to the house is likely to stay TDM for
> a while to come yet.
VoIP calls are free between users of the same system, also the majority
(not all) VoIP providers have agreements for free calls between users by
dialling access codes. For example I can dial from Sipgate to FWD,
Gradwell etc. for free. I also have friends in the US and I have a US
phone number that routes to my Sipgate line so they can call me on a local
(to them) number. (The US number is free also, BTW).
It is also advantageous for those that live abroad and want to keep in
touch with friends and family in the UK. They can have a UK phone number
and call around the UK from anywhere in the world that has a broadband
connection. If you go on holiday and there is BB access there you can plug
in an adaptor and call back home free to VoIP users or at local rates to
other UK numbers. I go to the US and stay with friends there; they have
ADSL and all I have to do is plug my ATA into their router and I have the
same UK phone lines as I have at home.
Sipgate have free phone numbers with no monthly charge at all and very
cheap rates for calls to UK landlines.
Ivor
| |
|
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> VoIP calls are free between users of the same system, also the majority
> (not all) VoIP providers have agreements for free calls between users by
> dialling access codes. For example I can dial from Sipgate to FWD,
> Gradwell etc. for free. I also have friends in the US and I have a US
> phone number that routes to my Sipgate line so they can call me on a local
> (to them) number. (The US number is free also, BTW).
If you like to call your granny or aunt I think in most cases you will
need to drop out to the PSTN (for a while at least) so free inter-voip
provider calls are going to be limited to your techie fiends.
If you use a CPS provider or calling card you can get flat rate single
digit pence per *call* rates to the US (and other international
locations) all from the copper coming into your house and using the same
handset.
> It is also advantageous for those that live abroad and want to keep in
> touch with friends and family in the UK. They can have a UK phone number
> and call around the UK from anywhere in the world that has a broadband
> connection. If you go on holiday and there is BB access there you can plug
> in an adaptor and call back home free to VoIP users or at local rates to
> other UK numbers. I go to the US and stay with friends there; they have
> ADSL and all I have to do is plug my ATA into their router and I have the
> same UK phone lines as I have at home.
Most of this is covered by "not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
parts of the world". Perhaps voicemail would service the "away on
holiday" requirement - really depends on the utility people see in such
things. I don't disagree that VoIP is useful (I have 5 VoIP phones on my
Asterisk box at home) but the fact it is not going to be significantly
cheaper than traditional PSTN means it probably won't take off to the
same extent here in the UK as elsewhere in the world (or not until the
end device becomes 'free'). In fact once you have bought your ATAs or
SIP phones it never going to pay back based on the phone bills of most
users.
Matt.
| |
|
| Yes, as others say, the =A39.99 package is really not very interesting
as the UK market for calls is pretty competitive and call prices have
fallen as a result. If it's just cheap calls to other PSTN customers
you want, one of the carrier pre-select services is by far the simplest
way of doing it.
VoIP is more about the ability to do lots of other things as well,
particularly if you're a small business or a home worker where you can
have the features and functionality of a large enterprise for very
little outlay.
Having said that, the ability to make totally free calls to anywhere on
the planet is a extreemly powerful, for all users.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-06-08, 5:45 pm |
|
"Matt" <usenet@banana.org.uk> wrote in message
news:42a70696$0$18805$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> If you like to call your granny or aunt I think in most cases you will
> need to drop out to the PSTN (for a while at least) so free inter-voip
> provider calls are going to be limited to your techie fiends.
> If you use a CPS provider or calling card you can get flat rate single
> digit pence per *call* rates to the US (and other international
> locations) all from the copper coming into your house and using the same
> handset.
True, but there is no minimum charge of 5/6p as there is with PSTN. I
resent paying for 5 minutes when I only want to mane a 30 second call..!
It's too much hassle using calling cards and I wouldn't trust any of the
CPS providers as far as I can spit..!
>
> Most of this is covered by "not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
> parts of the world". Perhaps voicemail would service the "away on
> holiday" requirement - really depends on the utility people see in such
> things. I don't disagree that VoIP is useful (I have 5 VoIP phones on my
> Asterisk box at home) but the fact it is not going to be significantly
> cheaper than traditional PSTN means it probably won't take off to the
> same extent here in the UK as elsewhere in the world (or not until the
> end device becomes 'free'). In fact once you have bought your ATAs or
> SIP phones it never going to pay back based on the phone bills of most
> users.
Probably not, but I didn't get VoIP to save money. I got it as I am
interested in the technology. That I can stay on the line to friends free
and keep my UK number while I'm out of the country are bonuses.
Ivor
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-08, 5:45 pm |
| cjd <colin@talk21.com> wrote:
> Yes, as others say, the £9.99 package is really not very interesting
> as the UK market for calls is pretty competitive and call prices have
> fallen as a result. If it's just cheap calls to other PSTN customers
> you want, one of the carrier pre-select services is by far the simplest
> way of doing it.
With BT and the cablecos a good wedge of your £10.50 is dead-money,
unless you make all your calls at the weekend. With VoIP that £9.99
could be all you pay for the month if you only call geographic landline
numbers or other VoIP users.
Eventually VoIP will become a valid replacement for people's POTS lines
rather than just a fancy addition. Plug-n-play style ATAs and a proper
999 service can't be too far away, and sooner or later BT will have to
unbundle broadband from their POTS service. That's when VoIP will make
sense from a cost point of view.
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| Jonathan 2005-06-08, 5:45 pm |
| "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3gokteFdj590U1@individual.net...
> True, but there is no minimum charge of 5/6p as there is with PSTN.
Yes, but no-one actually pays those charges - they are just a nominal
figure, like "local" and "national" rate is left as a nominal figure so
BT/Oftel etc can still get away with refering to 0845/0870 as those numbers.
I consider my phone use to be "semi-heavy", but I really honestly can't be
arsed with the whole idea of buying extra handsets to save perhaps the odd
2p here or there. My call pattern is perhaps 8-9 calls per day, so that's
under 20p all in no matter how long I talk, and I call the USA and NZ about
3 times a month, chat for about 5 minutes, so that's 10p for those calls. My
entire phone bill since January has been the same as 6 pints at the local.
Still not convinced! By all means use it for technological interest, but I
just can't see VOIP telephony companies that charge for it, surviving.
| |
| Jonathan 2005-06-08, 5:45 pm |
| "The Cable Guy" <jmattwood@nospamtalk21.com> wrote in message
news:iCzpe.47162$G8.29685@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I pay nothing for the (virtual) lines. If I wanted to replicate this on
> traditional lines, I'd be paying around £50 per month just for the
> rentals.
> I was paying for three POTS lines. With "Free Calls" packages, I was
> paying £45 per month.
You don't say how much you pay for all this via VOIP.
Perhaps I've got what you're trying to do, wrong, but I'd either go for a
bunch of cheap PAYG mobiles, or distinctive ring/callsign, or even just a
multi-handset DECT unit, with the ringtone on each handset programmed to
ring differently depending on who was calling, ie: silent for numbers you
don't know.
I had a Philips that did that, but it died and I made the mistake of
replacing it with a crappy BINatone, because it had polyphonic rings (and
£30 off). Sad, eh?
> I'm obviously a bit of a nutter!
What, nutters on t'internet? In newsgroups? Unheard of!
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-06-08, 5:45 pm |
| Jonathan wrote:
> "The Cable Guy" <jmattwood@nospamtalk21.com> wrote in message
> news:iCzpe.47162$G8.29685@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>
> You don't say how much you pay for all this via VOIP.
I'm paying nothing at all for 2 VoIP lines on Sipgate, apart from
1.19p/min if I need to break out to the PSTN (rare). No line rental, only
initial cost was the Sipura 2000 ATA at around £70.
> Perhaps I've got what you're trying to do, wrong, but I'd either go
> for a bunch of cheap PAYG mobiles, or distinctive ring/callsign, or
> even just a multi-handset DECT unit, with the ringtone on each
> handset programmed to ring differently depending on who was
> calling, ie: silent for numbers you don't know.
> I had a Philips that did that, but it died and I made the mistake of
> replacing it with a crappy BINatone, because it had polyphonic
> rings (and £30 off). Sad, eh?
No, not if what you do meets your needs. I know a lot of people on VoIP so
it benefits me not to have to pay to call them. I'm interested in the
technology, not so much saving money. I doubt I will recoup all my costs
in setting things up but that isn't my aim.
Ivor
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-08, 8:45 pm |
| On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:46:03 +0100, "Jonathan" <digitaltoast@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I consider my phone use to be "semi-heavy", but I really honestly can't be
>arsed with the whole idea of buying extra handsets to save perhaps the odd
>2p here or there. My call pattern is perhaps 8-9 calls per day, so that's
>under 20p all in no matter how long I talk, and I call the USA and NZ about
>3 times a month, chat for about 5 minutes, so that's 10p for those calls.
But you are paying BT a minimum of just over £ 120.00 a year in line
rental I pay sod all line rental on VOIP .
> My
>entire phone bill since January has been the same as 6 pints at the local.
>Still not convinced! By all means use it for technological interest, but I
>just can't see VOIP telephony companies that charge for it, surviving.
Oh they will have no fear on that score when you have companies like
Telewest charging 6 p a connection plus a per minute call charge also
and I can pick up my phone and make a call lasting a minute for under
one and a half pence with NO line rental to pay .
I got my TW bill this morning and with it I got a pretty little card
stating that they are putting up their line rental by 50p a month from
next month and TV packages by £ 1.00 plus an increase in paying at a
pay point instead of by DD from £ 2.00 to £ 3.00.
I took great delight in picking up the phone this afternoon and
telling them to come along and remove the TV box and phone line next
month I have got a freeview box sat here doing nothing and I certainly
do not need their very expensive phone line .
| |
| Martin² 2005-06-08, 8:45 pm |
| I gave up 2 BT lines and now use two VoIP lines (and a mobile).
Most VoIP calls are free, or 1.2p p.m.
So I am saving £21 p.m. on BT rental alone, plus a bit on the calls.
Calling mobiles is still dear though, but I rarely do.
08 numbers are PITA. Can't do 09 numbers which is good.
Regards,
Martin
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-09, 7:45 am |
|
"Jonathan" <digitaltoast@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:42a720ce_3@x-privat.org...
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3gokteFdj590U1@individual.net...
>
>
> Yes, but no-one actually pays those charges - they are just a nominal
<SNIP>
What do you mean, "no-one actually pays those charges"?
BT's minimum call charge AFAIK is 4.2p + VAT
Telewest's is 6p. Because it's a call connection charge, it doesn't even go
towards any talk time.
NTL's was 5p
| |
| Peter Corlett 2005-06-09, 7:45 am |
| Dave Gill <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
> With BT and the cablecos a good wedge of your £10.50 is dead-money,
> unless you make all your calls at the weekend. With VoIP that £9.99
> could be all you pay for the month if you only call geographic
> landline numbers or other VoIP users.
Except that if I tell BT where to stick their telephone service, I no
longer have broadband through which to make VoIP calls.
--
Two women were at a bar. One looked at the other and said, "You know, 80% of
all men think the best way to end an argument is to make love." "Well," said
the other woman," that will certainly revolutionize the game of hockey!"
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-06-09, 7:45 am |
| "Peter Corlett" <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote in message
news:42a82f6d$0$38045$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> Dave Gill <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
>
> Except that if I tell BT where to stick their telephone service, I no
> longer have broadband through which to make VoIP calls.
You can do this if you have cable, but agreed not with BT.
Ivor
| |
| Peter Corlett 2005-06-09, 7:45 am |
| Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Peter Corlett" <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
[...]
> You can do this if you have cable, but agreed not with BT.
There is the small detail that Telewest's broadband offering around
here is not suitable for my purposes.
--
Health consists of having the same diseases as one's neighbors.
- Quentin Crisp
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-09, 7:45 am |
| Peter Corlett <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
> Dave Gill <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
>
> Except that if I tell BT where to stick their telephone service, I no
> longer have broadband through which to make VoIP calls.
Which is why I said: "... and sooner or later BT will have to unbundle
broadband from their POTS service. That's when VoIP will make sense
from a cost point of view".
:-)
If the cablecos are doing it now, BT will have to follow suit eventually
- they may need a bit of a prod from OFCOM first though...
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| David Marshall 2005-06-09, 7:45 am |
| In article <1gxw62c.11qdyf75h3jcwN%spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk>,
Dave Gill <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote:
>Which is why I said: "... and sooner or later BT will have to unbundle
>broadband from their POTS service. That's when VoIP will make sense
>from a cost point of view".
Yes, I'm sure ADSL-without-POTS will appear soon, at only £12/month more
than existing ADSL services... :-/
Dave
--
Email: dave@durge.org MSN Messenger: dave@durge.org
| |
| Tim Morley 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
|
<dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ji3fa11tnk7oapvu7kova43di78f4er1fh@
4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:46:03 +0100, "Jonathan" <digitaltoast@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> But you are paying BT a minimum of just over £ 120.00 a year in line
> rental I pay sod all line rental on VOIP .
> Oh they will have no fear on that score when you have companies like
> Telewest charging 6 p a connection plus a per minute call charge also
> and I can pick up my phone and make a call lasting a minute for under
> one and a half pence with NO line rental to pay .
> I got my TW bill this morning and with it I got a pretty little card
> stating that they are putting up their line rental by 50p a month from
> next month and TV packages by £ 1.00 plus an increase in paying at a
> pay point instead of by DD from £ 2.00 to £ 3.00.
> I took great delight in picking up the phone this afternoon and
> telling them to come along and remove the TV box and phone line next
> month I have got a freeview box sat here doing nothing and I certainly
> do not need their very expensive phone line .
Plus Telewest will now be ronding call costs up to the next penny !
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| David Marshall <dave@fof.durge.org> wrote:
> Yes, I'm sure ADSL-without-POTS will appear soon, at only £12/month more
> than existing ADSL services... :-/
Yes, there is that sort of possibility. :-/
And if I want to unbundle my cable TV and phone services (ie: TV only)
I'll be forced to upgrade to the highest package, and then they'll slap
nearly a fiver on top... :-(
But then TW's prices go up next month, so I'll be paying £10.50 for the
phone, £10.50 for the "Essential" TV package, £1.50 for CLI and £1.50
for ACR (and a 6p/call connection charge for every daytime & evening
call if I don't use a LCR service). So if I go for the TV-only package
for £20 and use JustDialVoIP's £1.99 offering, which includes CLI and
ACR, I'll save £2 and get free evening calls as well as free weekend
calls. Tempting, eh? :-)
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| Jonathan 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| "The Cable Guy" <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote in message
news:MXSpe.47650$G8.23160@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> What do you mean, "no-one actually pays those charges"?
Well, I mean does anyone actually use their "copper carrier" for their
actual calls?
> BT's minimum call charge AFAIK is 4.2p + VAT
> Telewest's is 6p. Because it's a call connection charge, it doesn't even
> go towards any talk time.
Yes, but that's entirely an option - for no extra fee, use 18866 for
example, and the connection is 2p on BT/Cable/Telewest etc (although they do
charge 0.5p per min via cable, whereas it's 0p/min if you have a BT line).
In other words, it's entirely the choice of the customer to pay the higher
carrier rates - it costs nothing to choose not to, and there's plenty of
choice out there!
| |
| Peter Corlett 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| The Cable Guy <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote:
> "Peter Corlett" <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
[...]
> Why's isn't it suitable for your purposes? Upload speed lets it
> down, I know.
* Only a single dynamic IP available, with generic rDNS.
* The service is down an average of three days a month round here.
* There's a minimum contract term of 12 months.
* There is quite probably port blocking and/or transparent proxies on
at least ports 25 and 80.
--
The trouble with children is that they're not returnable.
- Quentin Crisp
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| Peter Corlett <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
> * There is quite probably port blocking and/or transparent proxies on
> at least ports 25 and 80.
I would imagine there will be a few VoIP-related port blocking issues to
overcome in the not-too-distant future too, until a few telcos get their
knuckles rapped for it, which is what happened in the US when VoIP
started to take off.
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| On 09 Jun 2005 14:30:51 GMT, abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk (Peter
Corlett) wrote:
>* There is quite probably port blocking and/or transparent proxies on
> at least ports 25 and 80.
Well I am running four VOIP lines on Telewest without any problems .
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:08:40 +0100,
spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk (Dave Gill) wrote:
>And if I want to unbundle my cable TV and phone services (ie: TV only)
>I'll be forced to upgrade to the highest package, and then they'll slap
>nearly a fiver on top... :-(
I told TW last night what to do with their phone and TV from next
month and there was no mention of sticking an extra fiver on my
broadband service .
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| <dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:08:40 +0100,
> spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk (Dave Gill) wrote:
>
>
> I told TW last night what to do with their phone and TV from next
> month and there was no mention of sticking an extra fiver on my
> broadband service .
Their BB service is separate to their TV+phone service. You can get BB
for the same price whether you have TV+phone or not, it's when you want
TV without the phone they stick you on the highest package and charge
you £20 for it instead of £15.50. :-/
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
|
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3gonplFdilrvU1@individual.net...
> Jonathan wrote:
>
> I'm paying nothing at all for 2 VoIP lines on Sipgate, apart from
> 1.19p/min if I need to break out to the PSTN (rare). No line rental, only
> initial cost was the Sipura 2000 ATA at around £70.
>
>
> No, not if what you do meets your needs. I know a lot of people on VoIP so
> it benefits me not to have to pay to call them. I'm interested in the
> technology, not so much saving money. I doubt I will recoup all my costs
> in setting things up but that isn't my aim.
>
> Ivor
>
>
It is a little rampant this technology!
I started off with a Sipura SPA-2100. Then thought it would be nice to have
an Asterisk server, which means having a PC on all the time! To cap it off,
I was inexorably drawn to an SPA-3000 a couple of weeks ago.
I've been able to make massive savings in calls 'cos no-one else can keep up
with what they have to do to dial out!
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:24:06 +0100, "Jonathan" <digitaltoast@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Well, I mean does anyone actually use their "copper carrier" for their
>actual calls?
a very large percentage.
Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !
| |
| Peter Gradwell 2005-06-09, 5:45 pm |
| digitaltoast@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
> saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".
I think you'll find that whilst there is a lot of hype about low cost
calling on voip, that isn't the biggest benefit at present.
At the moment, the whole sale price of a call to New York is less than a
call to Edinburgh, and so the people who can offer the cheapest calls
are those with the lowest cost bases, typically the established or well
funded PSTN operators like talktalk, 18886, etc.
We're a voip operator, and of course, our calls are competitively
priced, but our main customer benefits come from small groups of people
who work over wide areas, people who want fully functional and flexible
phone systems without the capital investment, people who want out of
area numbers or intelligent call routing, etc.
There is definately more to life than free calls, and the benefit of
using voip is that it improves the telephony experience, as well as, in
some cases, reducing call costs.
cheers
peter
--
peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
-- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
-- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --
| |
| Carl Waring 2005-06-10, 2:45 am |
| Tim Morley wrote:
> Plus Telewest will now be ronding call costs up to the next penny !
Haven't BT been doing this for years?
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
| |
| Carl Waring 2005-06-10, 2:45 am |
| Dave Gill wrote:
> David Marshall <dave@fof.durge.org> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, there is that sort of possibility. :-/
>
> And if I want to unbundle my cable TV and phone services (ie: TV only)
> I'll be forced to upgrade to the highest package, and then they'll
> slap nearly a fiver on top... :-(
>
> But then TW's prices go up next month, so I'll be paying £10.50 for
> the phone, £10.50 for the "Essential" TV package, £1.50 for CLI and
> £1.50 for ACR (and a 6p/call connection charge for every daytime &
> evening call if I don't use a LCR service). So if I go for the
> TV-only package for £20 and use JustDialVoIP's £1.99 offering, which
> includes CLI and ACR, I'll save £2 and get free evening calls as well
> as free weekend calls. Tempting, eh? :-)
Not bad, but don't forget that with the TW price increase you will get free
W/e calls as well :-)
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
|
"Peter Corlett" <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote in message
news:42a8529b$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> The Cable Guy <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote:
> [...]
>
> * Only a single dynamic IP available, with generic rDNS.
Isn't this easily overcome with something like DynDNS?
>
> * The service is down an average of three days a month round here.
That's a shame. I've been on TW BB since 2001 & never had an outage (unless
I've not noticed)
>
> * There's a minimum contract term of 12 months.
As are most.
>
> * There is quite probably port blocking and/or transparent proxies on
> at least ports 25 and 80.
>
> --
I've not come accross any port blocking. What ports do you need to use & for
what?
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
|
"Dave Gill" <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gxwc3d.grl6631vggx6uN%spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk...
> Peter Corlett <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I would imagine there will be a few VoIP-related port blocking issues to
> overcome in the not-too-distant future too, until a few telcos get their
> knuckles rapped for it, which is what happened in the US when VoIP
> started to take off.
>
> --
> The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They were forced to unblock them, though.
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
| On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:00:35 GMT, "Carl Waring"
<carl.waring@REDyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Haven't BT been doing this for years?
no, there's a call on my bill costing £0.099 +VAT
Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
| On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:00:35 GMT, "Carl Waring"
<carl.waring@REDyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Not bad, but don't forget that with the TW price increase you will get free
>W/e calls as well :-)
Not really free weekend calls in effect you are paying for the "
free"calls with all the price increases TW are imposing which amount
to a total of £ 2.50 including the outrageous £ 3.00 charge if you
don't pay by DD . I am slinging the phone and TV package out next
month and the lot would go where it not for the fact that TW's
broadband is more reliable than any adsl providers .
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
|
<dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:avsia11qlirstqljpkv3jfpibbck0l6dct@
4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:00:35 GMT, "Carl Waring"
> <carl.waring@REDyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Not really free weekend calls in effect you are paying for the "
> free"calls with all the price increases TW are imposing which amount
> to a total of £ 2.50 including the outrageous £ 3.00 charge if you
> don't pay by DD .
Do you mean "excluding" the outrageous £3 charge?
I spent some time working for Telewest's contemporary - NTL. They had no
concept of the effects certain decisions had upon the feelings of the
customers, either.
| |
| Peter Corlett 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
| The Cable Guy <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote:
> "Peter Corlett" <abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
[...]
> Isn't this easily overcome with something like DynDNS?
No, not really. DynDNS is a dirty kludge at best, and useless for my
requirements.
> That's a shame. I've been on TW BB since 2001 & never had an outage
> (unless I've not noticed)
You should listen to my landlord bitching about his service.
> As are most.
All the decent ISPs seem to be 1 month minimum. It seems to be only
the crap ones that hold you to 12 months (presumably otherwise their
customers would clear off within a week.)
> I've not come accross any port blocking. What ports do you need to
> use & for what?
I want to use all of them! I'm after an Internet service, not a
nannying service for worm-infested Windows boxes. I don't use Windows
for a start :p
--
The difference between literature and journalism is that journalism is
unreadable and literature is unread.
- Oscar Wilde
| |
| Peter Corlett 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
| The Cable Guy <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote:
[...]
> I spent some time working for Telewest's contemporary - NTL. They
> had no concept of the effects certain decisions had upon the
> feelings of the customers, either.
I imagine they don't really care about their customers' feelings anyway.
--
PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key
Please contribute to the beer fund and a tidier house:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQfgtpZ...pZ25QQsassZpndc
| |
| Peter Corlett 2005-06-10, 7:45 am |
| Carl Waring <carl.waring@REDyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Tim Morley wrote:
> Haven't BT been doing this for years?
Nope.
When BT changed from the unit-based charging to the per-minute
charging, the ex-VAT price was rounded *down* to a tenth of a penny.
It was changed earlier this year and now calls are rounded *up* to a
tenth of a penny.
Hence the trick question I occasionally asked here to see if anybody
is actually reading the bumph closely enough: what's the longest call,
including any fractions of a second, that you can get for the minimum
fee?
(Bonus points for giving answers for before and after 6/1/2005.)
--
PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key
Please contribute to the beer fund and a tidier house:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQfgtpZ...pZ25QQsassZpndc
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-10, 5:45 pm |
| On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:19:14 GMT, "The Cable Guy" <nospam@NoSmAm.Com>
wrote:
>
>Do you mean "excluding" the outrageous £3 charge?
>
I did say including .
>I spent some time working for Telewest's contemporary - NTL. They had no
>concept of the effects certain decisions had upon the feelings of the
>customers, either.
I had made up my mind before the price increases where announced to
get rid of the phone and TV package has we have had a freeview box sat
here doing nothing for 12 months . The TV came with the phone and
broadband which was free for 12 months so thought we might has well
have it at the time.
| |
| dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-06-10, 5:45 pm |
| On 10 Jun 2005 11:43:14 GMT, abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk (Peter
Corlett) wrote:
>All the decent ISPs seem to be 1 month minimum. It seems to be only
>the crap ones that hold you to 12 months (presumably otherwise their
>customers would clear off within a week.)
But the decent ones want the fifty quid connection charge which is a
sneaky way of making sure you stay with them anyway, no one is going
to pay out fifty quid and leave within a month unless they are stupid
..
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-10, 5:45 pm |
| The Cable Guy <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote:
> "Dave Gill" <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1gxwc3d.grl6631vggx6uN%spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk...
>
> They were forced to unblock them, though.
But I doubt that will stop one or two telcos this side of the pond from
trying it...
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| The Cable Guy 2005-06-10, 5:45 pm |
|
"Dave Gill" <spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gxy7l3.c9a4whvb4xfuN%spam-egg-chips-n-spam@spamsoff.co.uk...
> The Cable Guy <nospam@NoSmAm.Com> wrote:
>
>
> But I doubt that will stop one or two telcos this side of the pond from
> trying it...
>
> --
> The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're probably right.
| |
| Dave Gill 2005-06-10, 5:45 pm |
| Carl Waring <carl.waring@REDyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Not bad, but don't forget that with the TW price increase you will get free
> W/e calls as well :-)
Yes, I'd already pointed that out, in a round-about sort of way. But to
get the free evening calls as well, that I already get with JustDialVoIP
for just £1.99, including "line rental", would cost me a whopping £6 on
top of the free weekends line rental of £10.50...
Bit of a no-brainer, that one. ;-)
--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
| Thomas Sandford 2005-06-10, 8:45 pm |
|
<dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j16ja1difhf7gns4n29pd8oueub688bm86@
4ax.com...
> On 10 Jun 2005 11:43:14 GMT, abuse@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk (Peter
> Corlett) wrote:
>
>
> But the decent ones want the fifty quid connection charge which is a
> sneaky way of making sure you stay with them anyway, no one is going
> to pay out fifty quid and leave within a month unless they are stupid
The 50 squid is a cost BT charge the ISPs for setting up the line. No ISP
offering 1 month contracts is going to be willing not to pass this on (and
the decent ones generally prefer to pass it on rather than trying to rake it
back in their monthly costs).
And its not always stupidity where people want short period ADSL. It's
highly appropriate when you have short term site specific projects.
[And thank god it's both easier and simpler than setting up short term ISDN
used to be when that was the only practical route to reasonable cost/speed
access - we ended up taking a line year-round for 6 weeks a year use because
although theoretically it was possible to get one-two months for quite
considerably less than the annual cost the time and effort persuading BT
that the prices quoted in their price list were the _only_ ones that applied
way outweighed the saving. I remember particularly vividly the 30 minute or
so conversation that went around the loop "You have to pay for a new
installation, because the re-connect cost price you are quoting doesn't
apply once we have removed the equipment from site" "I am standing by the
box that says BT ISDN 2e. It even has a lit LED so I know it is even
partially connected at the exchange end" "No all the equipment has been
removed - it says so on my screen" "What part of 'I am at the site standing
by the connection box that we used last year, and the line power light is on
do you not understand'" etc].
--
Thomas Sandford
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