|
Home > Archive > Voice Over IP in UK > August 2005 > Free ATA
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
|
|
|
|
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| PhilÅ wrote:
> Have I read this right.
>
> Free Linksys ata if you sign up, no minimum contract??
>
> http://www.vonage.co.uk/
£9.99 a month though.. Also the ATA is locked to Vonage.
Ivor
| |
|
|
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3l9kmgF11r3hqU1@individual.net...
> PhilÅ wrote:
>
> £9.99 a month though.. Also the ATA is locked to Vonage.
>
> Ivor
>
Ahh, £9.99 for the first month, then cancel.. Did not know the ata is
locked, although I have just read a forum thread about opening a vantage ata
and moving a jumper, to unlock it??. Any one done this, and is it worth it
for a ATA?.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| PhilÅ wrote:
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3l9kmgF11r3hqU1@individual.net...
> Ahh, £9.99 for the first month, then cancel.. Did not know the ata
> is locked, although I have just read a forum thread about opening a
> vantage ata and moving a jumper, to unlock it??. Any one done this,
> and is it worth it for a ATA?.
An urban myth, I believe. Not sure though, I could be wrong. Better to get
an unlocked ATA to start with, all this mucking around to save a few quid
isn't worth the hassle IMHO.
Ivor
| |
| David Griffin 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| There is a charge if you cancel within the first 12 months, It's in the
small print. About £50 ish.
I cant remember which forum I saw it on but someone basically asked the same
as you.
"PhilÅ" <iclgateway@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j8NHe.3328$9K3.2819@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3l9kmgF11r3hqU1@individual.net...
> Ahh, £9.99 for the first month, then cancel.. Did not know the ata is
> locked, although I have just read a forum thread about opening a vantage
> ata and moving a jumper, to unlock it??. Any one done this, and is it
> worth it for a ATA?.
>
>
| |
|
|
"PhilÅ" <iclgateway@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j8NHe.3328$9K3.2819@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3l9kmgF11r3hqU1@individual.net...
> Ahh, £9.99 for the first month, then cancel.. Did not know the ata is
> locked, although I have just read a forum thread about opening a vantage
ata
> and moving a jumper, to unlock it??. Any one done this, and is it worth it
> for a ATA?.
>
>
An expert within 24 hours!
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| David Griffin wrote:
> There is a charge if you cancel within the first 12 months, It's in
> the small print. About £50 ish.
> I cant remember which forum I saw it on but someone basically asked
> the same as you.
In which case it's not worth it just to get the ATA, even if you could
unlock it.
Ivor
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 16:13:22 GMT, "PhilÅ" <iclgateway@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Free Linksys ata if you sign up
inclusive ATA, no web interface :-(
password protected.
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 16:25:51 GMT, "PhilÅ" <iclgateway@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>news:3l9kmgF11r3hqU1@individual.net...
>Ahh, £9.99 for the first month, then cancel.. Did not know the ata is
>locked, although I have just read a forum thread about opening a vantage ata
>and moving a jumper, to unlock it??. Any one done this, and is it worth it
>for a ATA?.
>
Don't be stupid read the info on the web site they want THEIR router
back before they will let you cancel in any case you would be better
buying a box from Staples 29.99 and it is yours to keep .
Once you see the great difference between rubbishy Sipgate and Vonage
you won't want to leave unless of course you are like stingy Ivor and
cannot afford to pay 33 pence a day for the superior service Vonage
provides to its customers .
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
[snip]
> Once you see the great difference between rubbishy Sipgate and
> Vonage you won't want to leave unless of course you are like stingy
> Ivor and cannot afford to pay 33 pence a day for the superior
> service Vonage provides to its customers .
And *I'm* the one that gets slagged off for my comments on Sipgate...!
I rest my case.
Ivor
| |
|
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:48:11 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>Don't be stupid read the info on the web site they want THEIR router
>back before they will let you cancel in any case you would be better
>buying a box from Staples 29.99 and it is yours to keep .
Except the Vonage branded router from Staples is also locked to Vonage
and I could find no way (including packet sniffing, replicating DNS
servers and multiple calls to customer services) to unlock it or
easily use it with any other service. Kind of annoying when you've
paid a similar price for it as for an unlocked one. I took it back as
unfit for purpose as there is no indication that it's locked on the
packaging or in any documentation. Staples were good about refunding
the money but of course it's no consolation for the wasted time and
fuel. Someone should really prosecute Staples for selling these
without warnings that they're locked.
If you really want Vonage (and my experience is you'd probably be much
better of elsewhere - it took over 30 mins just to get through to
customer services as a new customer, they sell locked hardware without
warnings, the sealed box only included 1 rj11 to BT adaptor even
though the wrapper stated two and they generally give the impression
of been slimey con men) then get the free ATA from them, even if you
have to give it back at the end.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
|
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:48:11 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>Once you see the great difference between rubbishy Sipgate and Vonage
>you won't want to leave unless of course you are like stingy Ivor and
>cannot afford to pay 33 pence a day for the superior service Vonage
>provides to its customers .
You can only be being ironically silly or you work for Vonage.
IMHO Vonage is one of the worst VoIP providers around, taking the
whole service into account. It's only saving grace being that it can
be a cheap way to make a lot of landline calls to the UK and a few
other countries.
Sipgate on the other hand have had the decency to launch an open
network with free incoming numbers to allow people to test the service
before signing up, so at least you know what you're paying for.
Sipgate can work out to cost more or less that Vonage depending on
your usage but at least you'll know what you're paying for and they
give the impression of being an honest business.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:27:42 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>If you really want Vonage (and my experience is you'd probably be much
>better of elsewhere
Ok Jonathan which other provider will give you a service for 33p a day
and let you make all the calls you want to UK and all Ireland
geographical numbers,free caller display, free conference calling to
all geographical numbers in the areas I have stated, voicemail ( that
works and speaks in English) and what's more they are an American
company not a German company based in the former NAZI Germany . Also
they do provide a free customer service number so who cares how long
you have to wait and up to now I have found staff to be more than
helpful .
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:46:11 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>Sipgate can work out to cost more or less that Vonage depending on
>your usage
But they don't and seem very unwilling to provide the quality of
service that Vonage provide I am not Vonage mad I also happen to like
a British provider Voipfone also nearly has good has Vonage again they
also provide a contact number in the UK but there isn't one single
provider in my experience has totally useless at providing and
sustaining a service has bad has Sipgate .
>give the impression of being an honest business.
So honest that it has taken them at least five months to sort out the
near none existent voicemail system so honest they can't be bothered
talking to their customers but are very quick of the mark at
contacting you when your account gets low on money . I had a begging
email from them only to day and I have only just dropped below five
quid.
No just let me pay my 9.99 and sit back and enjoy picking up the phone
and talk to anyone in this country for has long has I want without
worrying about the bill or having to pay any line rental .
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:12:38 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>And *I'm* the one that gets slagged off for my comments on Sipgate...!
>
>I rest my case.
>
>Ivor
>
Comments Ivor COMMENTS you used to be ramming Sipgate down peoples
throats every single day .
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
[snip]
> No just let me pay my 9.99 and sit back and enjoy picking up the
> phone and talk to anyone in this country for has long has I want
> without worrying about the bill or having to pay any line rental .
But you *are* paying line rental, £9.99 of it..! Ok it may not be *called*
"line rental" but what else is it..? You have to pay it to have their
service, so it's line rental in all but name.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| X-Trace: individual.net gRi3LSy6iCBstRrLfWjqbQsccGfmYRDOxP76MZ5w
Fl1DDijKjQ
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com uk.telecom.voip:3332
Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:12:38 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
> Comments Ivor COMMENTS you used to be ramming Sipgate down peoples
> throats every single day .
The way you're (not) doing with Vonage..?!
Ivor
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:35:48 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>But you *are* paying line rental, £9.99 of it..! Ok it may not be *called*
>"line rental" but what else is it..? You have to pay it to have their
>service, so it's line rental in all but name.
I pay Vonage for unlimited calls NOT line rental I pay Telewest for
kline rental and also calls on top so you are saying that anyone who
puts 10.00 in their Sipgate account are paying Line rental I don't
think so !! .
Or is it that Vonage charge line rental and Sipgate DON'T .
| |
| david laker 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| i use sipgate and since startup ive had no problems, i may have only been
with them 1month though.
I agree about vonage, the 9.99 should be an option, not somethign you have
to pay as this to me is line rental. personally i dont spend 9.99 on
landline calls so see no reason to switch to vonage unless my usage
increases vastly.
5.99 for 1000 rollover mins on sipgate is more than enough for me and is
very reasonable.
"Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:o5ave1lq4uvjrb17h75af48o887vcptnlh@
4ax.com...
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 16:13:22 GMT, "PhilÅ" <iclgateway@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> inclusive ATA, no web interface :-(
> password protected.
>
> Phil
> --
> Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:36:35 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>The way you're (not) doing with Vonage..?!
>
>Ivor
>
You count the number of times you have mentioned Sipgate in any way
here and the number of times I have mentioned Vonage .
I think you are scared stiff of the competition that Vonage is
providing in the UK plus the superior service they offer.
Had Sipgate or any other provider for that matter given me the service
that Vonage now gives me I would never have given Vonage a second
look.
I did think long and hard before signing up Ivor just like I have done
before deciding to kick Telewest into touch lock stock and barrel .
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:35:48 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>but what else is it..?
a fixed monthly service charge, like we established Orange charge :-)
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Paul Westwell 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
|
"JC" <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote in message
> If you really want Vonage (and my experience is you'd probably be much
> better of elsewhere - it took over 30 mins just to get through to
> customer services as a new customer, they sell locked hardware without
> warnings, the sealed box only included 1 rj11 to BT adaptor even
> though the wrapper stated two and they generally give the impression
> of been slimey con men) then get the free ATA from them, even if you
> have to give it back at the end.
Errr not my experience.
My adaptor was supplied directly from Vonage, was ordered on a Saturday and
arrived the following Tuesday, it cost nothing but the connection fee.
2 rj11 adaptors with mine.
Support are very helpful, some better then others I admit but generally the
best telephone support I have encountered in recent years.
Other then that it just works like your ordinary BT line but with a full
suite of star services plus a few extra's including excellent voicemail. No
messing about with international format for UK numbers, dial local numbers
as you would from BT i.e 123456, CLI etc etc.
I can see it been a huge attraction to people that want a VOIP alternative
that just works and does not require a degree in computer science to
configure.
Regards,
Paul
| |
| david laker 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| sorry they dont roll over my mistake, but still 1000 for me is enough.
"david laker" <davidlaker@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:L9QHe.27679$Hd4.4856@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>i use sipgate and since startup ive had no problems, i may have only been
>with them 1month though.
>
> I agree about vonage, the 9.99 should be an option, not somethign you have
> to pay as this to me is line rental. personally i dont spend 9.99 on
> landline calls so see no reason to switch to vonage unless my usage
> increases vastly.
>
> 5.99 for 1000 rollover mins on sipgate is more than enough for me and is
> very reasonable.
>
>
> "Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:o5ave1lq4uvjrb17h75af48o887vcptnlh@
4ax.com...
>
>
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:52:11 GMT, "david laker"
<davidlaker@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>5.99 for 1000 rollover mins on sipgate is more than enough for me and is
>very reasonable.
I agree with you totally in part ! has I have said scores of times you
don't pay 5.99 you have to pay 10.00 and you have to pay them a
further 10.00 the next month if you want to continue with the 1000
service unless they have mended their ways.
If they have altered this then ok but that is what the situation was
when I signed up for my first month .
PS the minutes DO NOT roll over or didn't !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
| |
|
| david laker wrote:
> 5.99 for 1000 rollover mins on sipgate is more than enough for me and is
> very reasonable.
>
CREDITS: Credits not used in the month will not be rolled-over into the
next month.
?
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:27:59 GMT, "david laker"
<davidlaker@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>sorry they dont roll over my mistake, but still 1000 for me is enough.
Just coorrected you on this David before I had read this  ) .
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:08:20 GMT, "Paul Westwell" <paul@nospam.me.uk>
wrote:
>My adaptor was supplied directly from Vonage, was ordered on a Saturday and
>arrived the following Tuesday, it cost nothing but the connection fee.
But you do have to give it back if you decide to leave my PAP2 from
Staples is mine to keep even though the phone ports are tied to Vonage
the router section isn't and can be used has a three port router for
ever and a day Vonage or no Vonage .
>Support are very helpful, some better then others I admit but generally the
>best telephone support I have encountered in recent years.
The Vonage knockers will not agree with you Paul .
>Other then that it just works like your ordinary BT line but with a full
>suite of star services plus a few extra's including excellent voicemail. No
>messing about with international format for UK numbers, dial local numbers
>as you would from BT i.e 123456, CLI etc etc.
I can't I do have to dial my local area code first before dialing a
local number .
>I can see it been a huge attraction to people that want a VOIP alternative
>that just works and does not require a degree in computer science to
>configure.
A real help Paul no messing around setting up at all you do not even
have to put your phone number into the ATA all done for you .
| |
| Thomas Rankin 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:52:11 GMT, "david laker"
> <davidlaker@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I agree with you totally in part ! has I have said scores of times you
> don't pay 5.99 you have to pay 10.00 and you have to pay them a
> further 10.00 the next month if you want to continue with the 1000
> service unless they have mended their ways.
Err, I'm on sipgate 1000 and they have only ever charged me £5.90. (not
£5.99).
Annoyingly you do need to pay for a call if it's placed on the roll-over
time. (1 minute to midnight iirc, on a particular day of the month), but
considering the call costs, it doesn't bother me.
> If they have altered this then ok but that is what the situation was
> when I signed up for my first month .
> PS the minutes DO NOT roll over or didn't !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
They still don't, but even the nipper doesn't use more than 1000 minutes
a month.
BTW. Why pay £30 for a locked Linksys PAP2 ATA when you can get one that
isn't locked for only an extra tenner?
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:12:41 GMT, Thomas Rankin
<tom@sanguinarius.dyndns.org> wrote:
>Err, I'm on sipgate 1000 and they have only ever charged me £5.90. (not
>£5.99).
All right then 5.90 but was that the EXACT amount taken from your card
or was it 10.00 ? .
>BTW. Why pay £30 for a locked Linksys PAP2 ATA when you can get one that
>isn't locked for only an extra tenner?
Why pay more for a router when you I don't really need one I already
have a Linksys 8 port router most other Voip providers services will
work using a Sipura 2000 which again I have .
| |
|
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:19:39 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>Ok Jonathan which other provider will give you a service for 33p a day
>and let you make all the calls you want to UK and all Ireland
http://www.legend.co.uk/home/teleco...vider_unlim.php
....of course they're only 24p per day if you just need the UK but I
know there are similar services as well.
>works and speaks in English) and what's more they are an American
>company not a German company based in the former NAZI Germany . Also
My friend I think you have a bit of a problem or are just being very
very silly. I know I would much rather do business with a company
based in the EU than one outside given the choice. I don't normally
feed the trolls but I'm afraid I can't help myself in this case as
someone may take your comments out of context and think you're
serious.
>they do provide a free customer service number so who cares how long
>you have to wait and up to now I have found staff to be more than
You obviously value your time a lot less than I do mine.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
|
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:50:44 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>But you do have to give it back if you decide to leave my PAP2 from
>Staples is mine to keep even though the phone ports are tied to Vonage
>the router section isn't and can be used has a three port router for
>ever and a day Vonage or no Vonage .
The PAP2 is not a router it's a ATA. A Vonage locked PAP2 is a
paperweight without a Vonage subscription. Vonage do sell a Linksys
router as well, maybe that's what you're thinking of. Of course if you
own one you'll know this.
>The Vonage knockers will not agree with you Paul .
Yup. I thought Vonage support was a joke. Bare in mind I did buy the
product with the intention of using Vonage, I just planned to use the
second port for my work system.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Paul Westwell 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
|
<Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:inmve1l8g0aa0ftd76vn6mncdu1c96ps0n@
4ax.com...
> But you do have to give it back if you decide to leave my PAP2 from
> Staples is mine to keep even though the phone ports are tied to Vonage
> the router section isn't and can be used has a three port router for
> ever and a day Vonage or no Vonage .
Well true I guess but you can buy a router for £30 regardless?
Personally I use a Linksys WRT54GS running Talisman firmware, My Vonage
RT31P2 sits behind it and only perfomes an ATA function.
> The Vonage knockers will not agree with you Paul .
I have no problem with that, I value my own opinion.
> I can't I do have to dial my local area code first before dialing a
> local number .
Out of the box?
[vbcol=seagreen]
> A real help Paul no messing around setting up at all you do not even
> have to put your phone number into the ATA all done for you .
Absolutely. I love messing around and experimenting with new technology but
the majority will not.
Regards,
Paul
| |
| Paul Westwell 2005-08-02, 5:45 pm |
|
"JC" <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote in message >
>
> Yup. I thought Vonage support was a joke. Bare in mind I did buy the
> product with the intention of using Vonage, I just planned to use the
> second port for my work system.
I did a little research before I purchased and realised it was locked, a
call to Vonage was all that was required over and above the usual
www.google.co.uk search!
Regards,
Paul
| |
|
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:47:57 GMT, "Paul Westwell" <paul@nospam.me.uk>
wrote:
>I did a little research before I purchased and realised it was locked, a
>call to Vonage was all that was required over and above the usual
>www.google.co.uk search!
Well I was aware that they locked them in the US but could find no
reference at the time to the UK service. I did notice that the router
was £ 30 in Staples (I bought the RT31) and free on the Vonage site. I
also checked that it used SIP from the Linksys spec. Since there was
no reference to locking anywhere and I did want the Vonage service I
bought the Linksys from Staples expecting it to be unlocked, after all
I was paying £ 30 over their "free" price. Ironically if it hadn't
been locked I would probably be a Vonage customer today and singing
their praises.
It's purely the way they handled my request to unlock the device (like
a mobile phone I thought they might do so for an "admin" fee - they
wont) that really upset me and gave me a taste of the way they treat
their customers. £ 30 for a device that is useless for VoIP if you
cancel your subscription and has a second port that can't be used. I
then bought a PAP2 for £ 35 unlocked which performs superbly.
Since I would have paid an extra £ 30 effectively for nothing and
would still need an unlocked device for other services, I took it
back. Vonage don't appear to let you sign up unless you take their
hardware and I'm really not going to run two separate 2 port boxes
using a port on each even if one is supplied "free".
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:04:12 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>My friend I think you have a bit of a problem or are just being very
>very silly. I know I would much rather do business with a company
>based in the EU than one outside given the choice.
It is time you realized that our friends are to the west not the east
had it not been for that old bastard that died the other week and
given a funeral in some out of the way cathedral while an ILLEAGAL
immigrant was near enough given a state funeral in London conducted by
the leader of the Roman Catholic church in the UK we would never have
joined the EU .
>You obviously value your time a lot less than I do mine.
I think God willing I should have around 22/23 years of time left in
me yet considering passed family health history Jonathan and I have
all the time in the world except for sleeping time .
I am retired due to ill health ( only mobility problems ) so like to
indulge in all the BEST communication services available, sooner
sit here and chat on the phone to friends than drive around in the car
all day wasting precious fuel .
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| Phil Thompson wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:35:48 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> a fixed monthly service charge, like we established Orange charge
> :-)
Rental by another name..!
Ivor
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:09:35 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>Vonage do sell a Linksys
>router as well, maybe that's what you're thinking of. Of course if you
>own one you'll know this.
I thought the Linksys which all have been on about locked or not
locked was one in the same ,mine has three ports to which computers
can be connect to plus two phone ports .
Are you saying the PAP 2 is only an ATA like the Sipura ? if so you
have told me something which I didn't know .
>Yup. I thought Vonage support was a joke.
Depends who you get when you call any support number some guys are
good some bloody rubbish you can't even call Sipgate support . I
actually called Linksys support the other night regarding the Vonage
router I couldn't get it on line at all . The guy soon put me straight
when you set up the router you go to the bottom of the page and save
settings the router re boots and the manual says that should be it job
done .
The guy told me to pull out the power cable and re connect it and it
was on line in seconds the damned Manuel doesn't even tell you to do
this .
| |
|
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:30:23 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>It is time you realized that our friends are to the west not the east
I'm definitely not getting in to politics but since the UK is a member
of the EU your consumer rights are much greater when buying from
within the EU than outside. That's a very strong argument in favor of
EU suppliers. Of course you have to be happy with the EU supplier in
the first place or its a moot point.
>I think God willing I should have around 22/23 years of time left in
>me yet considering passed family health history Jonathan and I have
>all the time in the world except for sleeping time .
Fair enough. I spent 20 mins trying to get through to the right
department in BT the other day for a really urgent problem. I believe
that companies should answer the phone and deal with questions in a
reasonable time and manor. When telecoms companies, be they BT, Vonage
or whoever are unable to do this it doesn't bare well.
All these new VoIP providers need to realise that this is not the
USA. We can get free calls to landlines from literally tens, possibly
hundreds of suppliers on our regular phone lines. If they want our
business they need to provide a service - mobility for both location
and hardware. That's something the fixed operators just can't compete
with and I'd actually pay a premium for this with good service. Vonage
just seem to want to compete with BT, Talktalk etc. which is fine but
I don't think sustainable in the long term unless they change their
business practices regarding locked hardware etc.
>I am retired due to ill health ( only mobility problems ) so like to
>indulge in all the BEST communication services available, sooner
>sit here and chat on the phone to friends than drive around in the car
>all day wasting precious fuel .
Well I can certainly agree with your sentiments but I'm not at home
during the day to receive mail order packages and often pass a staples
(every few weeks). It's easier to pickup something from a shop when
passing than drive to the courier depot 15 miles away. Of course
Staples is also 15 miles away so if I have to make a special trip to
take something back it sort of cancels out.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
|
| On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Rental by another name..!
I get 500 mins "free" on my mobile for £ 25. But can't just have the
calls without the charge.
I got a free Pizza with the one I bought for £ 9.99, but they wouldn't
just give me the free one.
I bought a pack of light bulbs with one extra "free" but they wouldn't
split the pack.
It's about time these things were regulated so a company could only
claim something was free if you could legitimately take it without
purchasing anything else, in the same way that competitions have to
allow free entries in some form. They could still have attractive
offers or limit them to "one per household" but it wouldn't appear so
dishonest.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:44:28 GMT, "Paul Westwell" <paul@nospam.me.uk>
wrote:
>Personally I use a Linksys WRT54GS running Talisman firmware, My Vonage
>RT31P2 sits behind it and only perfomes an ATA function.
We have two net connections the TW plus an ADSL which the Vonage is on
via a D-Link adsl modem with a computer connected via one of the
router ports .
>I have no problem with that, I value my own opinion.
I value mine also Paul I will always maintain that Sipgate are rubbish
compared with Vonage and that Vonage DO NOT charge line rental .
>Out of the box?
Yes .
>Absolutely. I love messing around and experimenting with new technology but
>the majority will not.
No thanks let me have something that comes out of the box and works
instantly with the exception of computers which we build ourselves and
I do love to mess around with .
| |
|
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:45:36 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>I thought the Linksys which all have been on about locked or not
>locked was one in the same ,mine has three ports to which computers
>can be connect to plus two phone ports .
That sounds like the RT31(?) that I bought. Yes it's a 3 port router
and 2 port ATA, the ATA part is locked.
>Are you saying the PAP 2 is only an ATA like the Sipura ? if so you
>have told me something which I didn't know .
The PAP2 is almost identical to the Sipura (they designed it for
Linksys). It's purely an ATA with no router functions but a very nice
unit. The Vonage PAP2 is unusable on any service other than Vonage to
to having locked Firmware.
>Depends who you get when you call any support number some guys are
>good some bloody rubbish you can't even call Sipgate support . I
I got through to some pleasant enough sounding people at Vonage, it
was just the 30 min wait that was the major problem and of course the
fact that they wouldn't unlock hardware that they'd locked and I
owned.
>The guy told me to pull out the power cable and re connect it and it
>was on line in seconds the damned Manuel doesn't even tell you to do
>this .
The Linksys VoIP device manuals are utterly useless. It appears they
are marketing to service providers and expecting them to do most of
the support. Again, I think they're missing the point of this stuff
especially when you have a device with two ports that can be
configured for two different services.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Phil Thompson wrote:
>
>Rental by another name..!
>
>Ivor
>
Rubbish .
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:14:38 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>That sounds like the RT31(?) that I bought. Yes it's a 3 port router
>and 2 port ATA, the ATA part is locked.
I am not arguing about numbers Jonathan but I am sure we are on the
same horse ) .
>The PAP2 is almost identical to the Sipura (they designed it for
>Linksys). It's purely an ATA with no router functions but a very nice
>unit. The Vonage PAP2 is unusable on any service other than Vonage to
>to having locked Firmware.
And this explains why before I bought it I had seen reference to it
being like the Sipura 2000 and when I got it home the set up was
nothing like the Sipura set up and just the plain old linksys set up
pages .
>I got through to some pleasant enough sounding people at Vonage, it
>was just the 30 min wait that was the major problem and of course the
>fact that they wouldn't unlock hardware that they'd locked and I
>owned.
Having read all about this "locked problem"I knew all about it before
deciding to go for it so no I have no grumbles at all about this
situation I had a choice buy it locked or don't buy it I bought it.
>I think they're missing the point of this stuff
>especially when you have a device with two ports that can be
>configured for two different services.
The one part I missed was pulling out the power completely which they
don't tell you to do in the manual Jonathan having already had
experance with the 8 port which you do not need to totally disconnect
from the power after set up .
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Phil Thompson wrote:
>
>Rental by another name..!
Please yourself .
| |
|
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:14:38 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I am not arguing about numbers Jonathan but I am sure we are on the
> same horse ) .
>
>
> And this explains why before I bought it I had seen reference to it
> being like the Sipura 2000 and when I got it home the set up was
> nothing like the Sipura set up and just the plain old linksys set up
> pages .
>
>
> Having read all about this "locked problem"I knew all about it before
> deciding to go for it so no I have no grumbles at all about this
> situation I had a choice buy it locked or don't buy it I bought it.
>
>
> The one part I missed was pulling out the power completely which they
> don't tell you to do in the manual Jonathan having already had
> experance with the 8 port which you do not need to totally disconnect
> from the power after set up .
Do you have the PAP ATA?
I think i am going to get one for $46ish delivered...
If you have one, or anyone else... please email me, removing the NOSPAM
from the address, thank you.
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:51:46 +0100, Sean
<seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Do you have the PAP ATA?
From what Jonathan has said I don't think I have mine is the Linksys
router with the two phone ports locked to Vonage .
| |
|
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:51:46 +0100, Sean
> <seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> From what Jonathan has said I don't think I have mine is the Linksys
> router with the two phone ports locked to Vonage .
>
Was jus wondering how it rings......UK ring? And what type of caller ID?
UK, or American?
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:11:26 +0100, Sean
<seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>Was jus wondering how it rings......UK ring? And what type of caller ID?
>UK, or American?
Just been checking Sean mine is the linksys RT41P2-AT NOT the PAP2
I am using a BT Diverse X10 phone on one line and i have numerous
tones to chose from the other line has a Biatone phone on it and at
tyhe moment it is ringing the American way but I think I can change
that .
Yet another good thing about Vonage I can have decent ring tones
unlike with Sipgate .
| |
| Martin² 2005-08-02, 8:45 pm |
| You can buy unlocked Linksys PAP2 ATA from BBB for ~£40.
If you want wifi router with VoIP have look at
Draytek Vigor 2600VG, quality kit, hence not cheap, but you can get find
them on Ebay,
(I bought one, no problems.
The Zyxel 2602HW is even better and the HWL version has pass-trough to PSTN,
the price has dropped, but it's still pretty steep.
Regards,
Martin
| |
|
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:51:46 +0100, Sean
<seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>If you have one, or anyone else... please email me, removing the NOSPAM
>from the address, thank you.
I'm currently using a PAP2. They seem to work very well.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
|
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:11:26 +0100, Sean
<seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Was jus wondering how it rings......UK ring? And what type of caller ID?
>UK, or American?
Everything can be customised to emulate a BT line. UK ring (or BT
standard callsign rings for alternative numbers), polarity reverse and
BT FSK data, polarity reverse on end of call (to trigger answering
machines), UK standard dallerid on call waiting, a dialplan that
allows ETSI *#67# type codes, UK line impedance, uk tones for ring,
busy, NU, 1571 message waiting etc. A really nice piece of kit and
almost indistinguishable from a BT line when set correctly.
The only thing I havent yet managed to get it to do is deliver an SMS
to a BT SMS phone but this should also work reading the specs.
I can post config examples if needed.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Paul Westwell 2005-08-03, 2:45 am |
|
"JC" <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote in message
> The only thing I havent yet managed to get it to do is deliver an SMS
> to a BT SMS phone but this should also work reading the specs.
JC, tell me more about the SMS please.......
| |
| Paul Westwell 2005-08-03, 2:45 am |
|
<Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8320f152fcng7smva0ood8jb22g1vp1m85@
4ax.com...
> Yes .
> No thanks let me have something that comes out of the box and works
> instantly with the exception of computers which we build ourselves and
> I do love to mess around with .
Dexter, I'm on the same side.... I think Vonage is great :-)
| |
|
|
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-03, 7:45 am |
| On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Rental by another name..!
why are you so fixated with "rental" ?
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-03, 7:45 am |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 05:24:03 +0100, JC <nospam@nospam.comm> wrote:
>This is just plain wrong. Any SIP service (Vonage, Sipgate etc) will
>give you the tones configured in your SIP client/ATA unless signaling
>is sent in band (which is not common as it wastes bandwidth).
Funnily enough Jonathan which ever tone I configered in the Sipura it
didn't change the tone I got and I am convinced this was due to the
phone not the Sipura . Now with Vonage I can select around about
seven different tones on the Diverse X10 and they all work .
| |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk 2005-08-03, 7:45 am |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 12:27:36 +0100, Phil Thompson
<phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
><ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>why are you so fixated with "rental" ?
Phil I just can't get it into his head that there is a distinct
difference between RENTING a phone line as in BT's
11.40 line RENTAL and the 9.99 one pays Vonage for unlimited
calls each month or any other telecom's provider such has talk talk
who offer unlimited calls for 7.99 I think it is . I suppose Ivor will
say TT's option 3 also is line rental !!! .
| |
| Thomas Rankin 2005-08-03, 5:45 pm |
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 12:27:36 +0100, Phil Thompson
> <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Phil I just can't get it into his head that there is a distinct
> difference between RENTING a phone line as in BT's
> 11.40 line RENTAL and the 9.99 one pays Vonage for unlimited
> calls each month or any other telecom's provider such has talk talk
> who offer unlimited calls for 7.99 I think it is . I suppose Ivor will
> say TT's option 3 also is line rental !!! .
>
This may sound rediculous, but whenever anyone sells a mobile phone on a
contract you pay line rental, for which you get a certain number of
minutes of free calls.
Isn't this basically the same thing, a service rental?
Not that I understand what the whole argument is regarding what label
should be put on it, it's not as if anyones arguing that the service is
different.
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-03, 5:45 pm |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 16:40:12 GMT, Thomas Rankin
<tom@sanguinarius.dyndns.org> wrote:
>This may sound rediculous, but whenever anyone sells a mobile phone on a
>contract you pay line rental, for which you get a certain number of
>minutes of free calls.
rediculous ?
there is nothing called "line rental" on my mobile bills.
>Isn't this basically the same thing, a service rental?
one of many words that can be used to describe a recurring charge.
I believe the differentiation is between the rental of a BT line which
has no inclusive calls and few inclusive services, as distinct to
paying a monthly fee for a VoIP telephonic connection service that has
a large or frequently unlimited inclusive call allowance for certain
types of call. The difference being that with BT you have to pay more
money to call anyone, even once, whereas with Vonage or a contract
mobile you can make some or many calls without paying any extra money.
you probably need a Professor of English to say if "rental" is a more
appropriate word than "service plan" or whatever.
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-03, 5:45 pm |
|
"Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:6ga1f1db4nl7fvv5pg7go95kc6vtkb61q6@
4ax.com...
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> why are you so fixated with "rental" ?
Call it whatever you like, if it's a charge you have to pay every month in
order to use the service, it's *rental* plain and simple. It may have
"free" calls included but it's still rental.
Ivor
| |
| Thomas Rankin 2005-08-03, 5:45 pm |
| In-Reply-To: <d712f1pi77tvqccqiom9v0ft6vf3flr6sl@4ax.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0
X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <bK9Ie.20057$Oe4.17053@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 20:24:39 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.1.176.138
X-Complaints-To: http://www.ntlworld.com/netreport
X-Trace: newsfe3-gui.ntli.net 1123100679 86.1.176.138 (Wed, 03 Aug 2005 21:24:39 BST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 21:24:39 BST
Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com uk.telecom.voip:3408
Phil Thompson wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 16:40:12 GMT, Thomas Rankin
> <tom@sanguinarius.dyndns.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> rediculous ?
>
> there is nothing called "line rental" on my mobile bills.
>
Not trying to be pedantic but, if you choose any mobile phone package
from vodafone, it is advertised as half price line rental for 3 months.
(on shop.vodafone.co.uk)
On O2s website they prefer to call it monthly subscription in the
information pages and monthly rental in the shop section although nearly
all their dealers (eg. carphone warehouses tarrif sheets on their
website) refer to it as line rental.
On three.co.uk, on the front page they advertise Half Price Line Rental.
On T-mobile.co.uk on the front page they are advertising 9 months half
price line rental.
On www.orange.co.uk seem to generally call them price plans or offer
plans, whereas scancom (chosen because they are orange business
specialists for their region), generally refer to it as rental and cpw
call it line rental.
Looking at more official paperwork, on a singlepoint vodafone contract,
it is referred to as line rental in 2 places and monthly charge in
another (although the monthly charge in can include an insurance policy
so generally constitutes a different item).
On the singlepoint voda multi-deal contract it is referred to as the same.
I don't have any orange contracts since they have now been paperless for
some time but if you want I can dig out a voda connect contract or even
a t-mobile one.
I think it's generally an accepted term, especially since it is on the
front page of 2 of the 5 main providers, and notably on the contracts of
another.
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-04, 2:45 am |
| On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:12:25 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Call it whatever you like
we do, its you that seems to have a crisis over this and want to call
it "rental" as if there was no other word in the language.
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-04, 2:45 am |
| On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 20:24:39 GMT, Thomas Rankin
<tom@sanguinarius.dyndns.org> wrote:
>I don't have any orange contracts since they have now been paperless for
>some time
I have one here and it doesn't say rental.
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-04, 7:45 am |
| Phil Thompson wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:12:25 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> we do, its you that seems to have a crisis over this and want to
> call it "rental" as if there was no other word in the language.
*I* don't have a crisis over it, it's other people who keep saying "there
is no rental" when it's obvious there is ;-)
Ivor
| |
|
| On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Rental by another name..!
What are you renting? Surely it's a service charge?
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Ivor Jones 2005-08-04, 5:45 pm |
| JC wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:31:09 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> What are you renting? Surely it's a service charge?
>
> Rgds
> Jonathan
You call it what you want, I'll call it what it is..!
Ivor
| |
|
| On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:37:05 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>You call it what you want, I'll call it what it is..!
I don't want to be pedantic but I do feel it's really important that
companies accurately and correctly describe the products they sell.
If a company says it has a £ 25 per month service charge which has 500
inclusive mins, that seems fine to me.
If you're saying this is rental then please tell me what is being
rented? Do I have to return or pay for the used calls if I cancel the
service?
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
| Phil Thompson 2005-08-05, 7:45 am |
| On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:37:05 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>You call it what you want, I'll call it what it is..!
you mistyped it, you mean you'll call it what you want to call it,
just like he does. Neithe rof you are more right or wrong than the
other.
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
| |
|
| Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:11:26 +0100, Sean
> <seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Just been checking Sean mine is the linksys RT41P2-AT NOT the PAP2
> I am using a BT Diverse X10 phone on one line and i have numerous
> tones to chose from the other line has a Biatone phone on it and at
> tyhe moment it is ringing the American way but I think I can change
> that .
> Yet another good thing about Vonage I can have decent ring tones
> unlike with Sipgate .
The PAP2 can have one of 8 ring types assigned. One is similar to the UK
one, but rings for longer than my PSTN actually does on each ring!.
The CLI seems to be the US standard (sent after the ring, not before)
Anyone know how to change this?
| |
|
| On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 19:54:10 +0100, Sean
<seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>The PAP2 can have one of 8 ring types assigned. One is similar to the UK
>one, but rings for longer than my PSTN actually does on each ring!.
>
>The CLI seems to be the US standard (sent after the ring, not before)
>
>Anyone know how to change this?
Have a look at http://www.kcip.com/voip/pap2/ which has an example UK
config that should be pretty close to a standard BT line.
Rgds
Jonathan
| |
|
| JC wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 19:54:10 +0100, Sean
> <seanhardy88NOSPAM@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Have a look at http://www.kcip.com/voip/pap2/ which has an example UK
> config that should be pretty close to a standard BT line.
>
> Rgds
> Jonathan
>
Thanks, thats cool, but you cant see all the info in some of the boxes 
|
|
|
|
|