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Home > Archive > Voice Over IP in UK > October 2006 > Broadband distribution using Powerline (domestic wiring)
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Broadband distribution using Powerline (domestic wiring)
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| Bypass 2006-10-22, 7:11 am |
| I'd be interested in any comments from people that have first hand
experience of networking their PC's using the domestic wiring.
I'm currently looking at this kit:
http://www.zyxel.co.uk/web/product_...pNo=PDCA2006017
In my particular situation, I want to supply broadband to a refurbished
barn, which is about 100m away from the main house. The barn takes it's
electrical supply from the house.
Since there is no land line to the barn, I would like to rely on VoIP.
I like the solution in principle, but have concerns that every time you
use an electrical appliance there will be some degradation of the
quality of service?
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"Bypass" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:coG_g.5725$t6.5479@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> I'd be interested in any comments from people that have first hand
> experience of networking their PC's using the domestic wiring.
>
> I'm currently looking at this kit:
>
> http://www.zyxel.co.uk/web/product_...pNo=PDCA2006017
>
> In my particular situation, I want to supply broadband to a refurbished
> barn, which is about 100m away from the main house. The barn takes it's
> electrical supply from the house.
>
> Since there is no land line to the barn, I would like to rely on VoIP.
>
> I like the solution in principle, but have concerns that every time you
> use an electrical appliance there will be some degradation of the quality
> of service?
http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline.htm
I bought three Solwise gadgets (85Mbps) a few days ago as per link and had
plugged in and working within minutes.
For years I had wireless with no problems then about one year ago started
getting regular disconnections, tried four different routers, two separate
PC engineers and a number of calls to router tech support. No one could
solve the problems and thought I would need to go wired until on this NG
someone suggested these gadgets. For me now to be able to go through each
and every day with no problem is a real luxury.
Ken
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| Bypass 2006-10-22, 7:11 am |
| Ken wrote:
> http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline.htm
> I bought three Solwise gadgets (85Mbps) a few days ago as per link and had
> plugged in and working within minutes.
> For years I had wireless with no problems then about one year ago started
> getting regular disconnections, tried four different routers, two separate
> PC engineers and a number of calls to router tech support. No one could
> solve the problems and thought I would need to go wired until on this NG
> someone suggested these gadgets. For me now to be able to go through each
> and every day with no problem is a real luxury.
>
Ken, that's really helpful.
Are you using VoIP with these units, and if so, how is it connected up?
Can you simply plug a switch box into the Solwise adapter?
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| Bypass 2006-10-22, 7:11 am |
| Bypass wrote:
> Ken wrote:
>
>
>
> Ken, that's really helpful.
>
> Are you using VoIP with these units, and if so, how is it connected up?
> Can you simply plug a switch box into the Solwise adapter?
Oops, bad form I know to reply to your own post, but I've now found
typical setups on Solwise's website showing the use of ethernet switches.
I'm now just looking for comments using VoIP on this type of networking.
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| David Cook 2006-10-22, 7:11 am |
| Bypass wrote:
> Bypass wrote:
>
> Oops, bad form I know to reply to your own post, but I've now found
> typical setups on Solwise's website showing the use of ethernet switches.
>
> I'm now just looking for comments using VoIP on this type of networking.
No problem, we have two. One is in our first floor home office hooked
upto an ethernet switch and broadband connection. The second is in our
ground floor lounge and is plugged into a wireless access point and
networked Tivo.
A VOIP connection from my work laptop via wireless back to the work PABX
(IAX using Idefisk soft phone) has no degradation of quality and no
drop-outs. The powerline networking adapters do just simply work
plug-n-play.
Best regards
David Cook
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| Bypass 2006-10-22, 7:11 am |
| David Cook wrote:
>
> No problem, we have two. One is in our first floor home office hooked
> upto an ethernet switch and broadband connection. The second is in our
> ground floor lounge and is plugged into a wireless access point and
> networked Tivo.
>
> A VOIP connection from my work laptop via wireless back to the work PABX
> (IAX using Idefisk soft phone) has no degradation of quality and no
> drop-outs. The powerline networking adapters do just simply work
> plug-n-play.
>
David, are you using the Solwise adapters? What speed are they?
If UK broadband is 'maxed out' at 8Mbps is there any need to get
adapters greater than 14Mbps?
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| Bypass <user@example.net> wrote on Sun, 22 Oct 2006 at 08:57:44:
>In my particular situation, I want to supply broadband to a refurbished
>barn, which is about 100m away from the main house. The barn takes
>it's electrical supply from the house.
I'm successfully using the 14Mb/s Solwise units. My only concern is that
you should check whether there is any sort of inductive unit between a
socket in the house and a socket in the barn. A separate meter? A
Residual Current Device (RCD)? Anything with inductance in series with
the mains wiring will attenuate the Powerline signal. In my tests, they
worked well between 2 mains rings, so only a couple of Miniature Circuit
Breakers (MCBs) in between, but they failed with 2 RCBs in between.
Otherwise, I thoroughly recommend them.
--
Tony
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"Bypass" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:ruH_g.50507$pa.32976@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> David Cook wrote:
>
>
> David, are you using the Solwise adapters? What speed are they?
>
> If UK broadband is 'maxed out' at 8Mbps is there any need to get adapters
> greater than 14Mbps?
The reason I got the 85Mbps is moving files from PC to PC in my small office
environment otherwise the guy from Solwise tech support said the 14Mbps
would of been fine for my usage. I also felt I needed to be as future proof
as possible.
Ken
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"Bypass" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:hLG_g.1232$p8.836@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> Ken wrote:
>
>
>
> Ken, that's really helpful.
>
> Are you using VoIP with these units, and if so, how is it connected up?
> Can you simply plug a switch box into the Solwise adapter?
No not using VoIP but others on the NG may help. Why not call the Tech
support. I did before I bought with Solwise and they were helpful.
Ken
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| David Cook 2006-10-22, 7:11 am |
| Bypass wrote:
> David Cook wrote:
>
>
> David, are you using the Solwise adapters? What speed are they?
>
> If UK broadband is 'maxed out' at 8Mbps is there any need to get
> adapters greater than 14Mbps?
| |
| David Cook 2006-10-22, 1:11 pm |
| Bypass wrote:
>
> David, are you using the Solwise adapters? What speed are they?
>
> If UK broadband is 'maxed out' at 8Mbps is there any need to get
> adapters greater than 14Mbps?
We did have the 14Mbs adapters but on occasion copy multi-GB files from
the Tivo to archive TV content to DVD. We now have the 85Mbs adapters,
the 14 Mbs adapters were donated to my brother.
Like Wireless 14/85 Mbs is the theoretical performance with this
technology. Real world you are not going to achieve it. For the small
price differential I would buy the 85 Mbs devices, however for VOIP use
the 14 Mbs devices would be more than adequate if necessary.
Best regards
David Cook
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"Bypass" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:ruH_g.50507$pa.32976@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> David Cook wrote:
>
>
> David, are you using the Solwise adapters? What speed are they?
>
> If UK broadband is 'maxed out' at 8Mbps is there any need to get adapters
> greater than 14Mbps?
BE currently supplies "upto" 24Meg via their LLU sites ;-)
I think the 14Mbps kit is being succeeded by the 85 and higher, so may as
well go for the 85's.
P.
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| David Cook 2006-10-22, 1:11 pm |
| David Cook wrote:
> Bypass wrote:
>
> We did have the 14Mbs adapters but on occasion copy multi-GB files from
> the Tivo to archive TV content to DVD. We now have the 85Mbs adapters,
> the 14 Mbs adapters were donated to my brother.
>
> Like Wireless 14/85 Mbs is the theoretical performance with this
> technology. Real world you are not going to achieve it. For the small
> price differential I would buy the 85 Mbs devices, however for VOIP use
> the 14 Mbs devices would be more than adequate if necessary.
>
> Best regards
> David Cook
Also don't forget that this is a shared bandwidth technology. The 85 Mbs
devices may help if you are going to run 3-4+ simultaneously. A good
approach could be to use a mixture.
Solwise would confirm but I believe that the 14 & 85 Mbs devices will
coexist and communicate with each other without the 14 Mbs devices
forcing the 85 Mbs devices to run at the slower speed. You could then
use 14 Mbs devices for pure internet access/VOIP connectivity, using the
85 Mbs devices for computers and other equipment that needed higher
local bandwidth.
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| Peter Crosland 2006-10-22, 1:11 pm |
| > I'd be interested in any comments from people that have first hand
> experience of networking their PC's using the domestic wiring.
>
> I'm currently looking at this kit:
>
> http://www.zyxel.co.uk/web/product_...pNo=PDCA2006017
>
> In my particular situation, I want to supply broadband to a
> refurbished barn, which is about 100m away from the main house. The
> barn takes it's electrical supply from the house.
>
> Since there is no land line to the barn, I would like to rely on VoIP.
>
> I like the solution in principle, but have concerns that every time
> you use an electrical appliance there will be some degradation of the
> quality of service?
I would suggest that you use a wireless network with directional antennae.
This will cost more but should be much more reliable and give much higher
speed.
Peter Crosland
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| NutCracker 2006-10-22, 1:11 pm |
| On 2006-10-22 13:03:44 +0100, "Flyer" <me@privacy.net> said:
>
> "Bypass" <user@example.net> wrote in message
> news:ruH_g.50507$pa.32976@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>
> BE currently supplies "upto" 24Meg via their LLU sites ;-)
> I think the 14Mbps kit is being succeeded by the 85 and higher, so may
> as well go for the 85's.
>
> P.
Yep, the 85 units work very well....and I'll be upgrading to the 200
units next month! :-)
http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-av.htm
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| Roger Mills 2006-10-22, 1:11 pm |
| In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tony <tonyh1nospam@hotair.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Bypass <user@example.net> wrote on Sun, 22 Oct 2006 at 08:57:44:
>
> I'm successfully using the 14Mb/s Solwise units. My only concern is
> that you should check whether there is any sort of inductive unit
> between a socket in the house and a socket in the barn. A separate
> meter? A Residual Current Device (RCD)? Anything with inductance in
> series with the mains wiring will attenuate the Powerline signal. In
> my tests, they worked well between 2 mains rings, so only a couple of
> Miniature Circuit Breakers (MCBs) in between, but they failed with 2
> RCBs in between. Otherwise, I thoroughly recommend them.
I was going to raise the same concern, but Tony beat me to it.
You say that mains in the barn is supplied from the house, but you don't say
whether the barn has its own consumer unit. If it *has*, this solution may
not work. I'm sure I've read somewhere that this technology only works when
all the mains wiring comes off the *same* consumer unit (possibly by design
to prevent interference with the 1 in 3 of your neighbours on the same phase
as you). It may be as well to check with the supplier.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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| Mark McIntyre 2006-10-22, 7:11 pm |
| On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:02:52 +0100, in uk.telecom.broadband , "Peter
Crosland" <g6jns@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I would suggest that you use a wireless network with directional antennae.
>This will cost more but should be much more reliable and give much higher
>speed.
Not necessarily. The newer powerline adapters are faster than 54G, and
less susceptible to interference. Plus you're not restricted about
where you can stick 'em.
--
Mark McIntyre
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| Thomas Kenyon 2006-10-23, 1:11 pm |
| Mark McIntyre wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:02:52 +0100, in uk.telecom.broadband , "Peter
> Crosland" <g6jns@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Not necessarily. The newer powerline adapters are faster than 54G, and
> less susceptible to interference. Plus you're not restricted about
> where you can stick 'em.
They also provide a more consistent link with very little latency.
I've only tried using them with wiring that is on the same board though.
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| On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:02:52 +0100, Peter Crosland postulated:
>I would suggest that you use a wireless network with directional antennae.
>This will cost more but should be much more reliable and give much higher
>speed.
.... and what about security and privacy, never mind the ease of
setting the network up?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| Paul D.Smith 2006-10-24, 7:11 am |
| "Polly" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h5ppj2l59srtj7b93sjpfdt01427jq33nq@
4ax.com...
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:02:52 +0100, Peter Crosland postulated:
>
>
> ... and what about security and privacy, never mind the ease of
> setting the network up?
Setting wireless security is actually easy and directional antenna also
reduce the risk of someone hacking in. Odds are the OP is in the middle of
nowhere so OK but in threory I could move in next door, plug in my powerline
adapter and might get access to your network.
Well worth warning though so I don't want to sound patronizing as many
people simply don't think about security. Line-of-site wireless also gives
good throughput, even with low gain antenna. It's those pesky walls inside
the house that cause the problems :-).
Waiting to read the OPs "thanks all, it worked" e-mail on whichever route he
chooses ;-).
Paul DS
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| Paul D.Smith 2006-10-24, 7:11 am |
| ....snip...
I didn't see any mention of Quality of Service (QoS). This could be an
issue regardless of which route you choose. Make sure that routers you
choose support this otherwise you could be on a call, start a big download
and lose your call because the download steals all the bandwidth.
QoS reserves some bandwidth specifically for your phone, which is what you
require.
Paul DS.
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| Paul D.Smith <paul_d_smith@x-hotmail.com> wrote on Tue, 24 Oct 2006 at
11:11:06:
>in threory I could move in next door, plug in my powerline adapter and
>might get access to your network.
I doubt it's that easy. The electricity meters of both properties will
block the HomePlug signals, and the HomePlug network uses 56-bit DES
encryption.
--
Tony
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| Dave Fawthrop 2006-10-24, 7:11 am |
| On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:11:06 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
<paul_d_smith@x-hotmail.com> wrote:
|
|Setting wireless security is actually easy and directional antenna also
|reduce the risk of someone hacking in. Odds are the OP is in the middle of
|nowhere so OK but in threory I could move in next door, plug in my powerline
|adapter and might get access to your network.
Surely clamping a *big* chunk of ferrite round the incoming mains cable
might help. Small ones are commonly available.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.
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| Mark McIntyre 2006-10-24, 1:11 pm |
| On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:11:06 +0100, in uk.telecom.broadband , "Paul
D.Smith" <paul_d_smith@x-hotmail.com> wrote:
>in threory I could move in next door, plug in my powerline
>adapter and might get access to your network.
Unlikely, unless you're sharing a meter, don't have any circuit
breakers in the way, are on the same phase etc etc.
>Well worth warning though so I don't want to sound patronizing as many
>people simply don't think about security. Line-of-site wireless also gives
>good throughput,
same points about security though.
--
Mark McIntyre
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