| Author |
What do you want from a VOIP provider
|
|
| clavox@btinternet.com 2007-06-12, 7:11 pm |
| On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:44:01 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>As you won't killfile me, I'll have to killfile you.
>
>Plonk.
So because you know you are on a looser here you are now starting to
take the easy way out by killfiling people . I have a suggestion why
don't you KF the lot of us then you can have the entire FORUM all to
yourself and we shall all move back to UK.telecom and you can stuff
YOUR FORUM .
| |
| clavox@btinternet.com 2007-06-12, 7:11 pm |
| On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:44:47 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>No, you are.
>
>Ivor
>
No you are Ivor most peopl here agree that this IS a FORUM.
| |
| clavox@btinternet.com 2007-06-12, 7:11 pm |
| On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:45:36 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>I could care less. This NEWSGROUP is not a forum.
THIS IS A FORUM most people here say this IS a FORUM
Like it or lump it.
| |
| clavox@btinternet.com 2007-06-12, 7:11 pm |
| On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:47:20 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>People here show contempt for me and my views, they don't like it when the
>boot is on the other foot.
And rightly so .
>Yes I am being rude, offensive and annoying. Not nice, is it..?
>
Carry on Ivor it won't be long before everyone here totally ignores
you just as the spammers have been doing since this FORUM's creation .
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-13, 1:11 am |
|
<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:q9au635veip2p44edkbo7i4vutuios04kc@
4ax.com
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:44:01 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> So because you know you are on a looser here you are now
> starting to take the easy way out by killfiling people .
> I have a suggestion why don't you KF the lot of us then
> you can have the entire FORUM all to yourself and we
> shall all move back to UK.telecom and you can stuff YOUR
> FORUM .
If only you would, Ron.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-13, 1:11 am |
|
<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ilau6350jnbrodb1d8moaqa86gfcf595d9@
4ax.com
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:44:47 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> No you are Ivor most peopl here agree that this IS a
> FORUM.
Have you taken a poll of *all* users..? That means ALL of them Ron, not
just those who post most often. If so, please post the results, preferably
in tabular form. One that I could import into Excel would be nice.
Otherwise shut up.
Ivor
PS what are peopl..?
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-13, 1:11 am |
|
<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8nau63tu5qndn3nv0p2q2aqi31hatemerc@
4ax.com
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:45:36 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> THIS IS A FORUM most people here say this IS a FORUM
> Like it or lump it.
Shop shouting, Ron. It doesn't make you less wrong.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-13, 1:11 am |
|
<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:2sau635pbg0usmsoinnb9bsmdfrsgs543r@
4ax.com
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:47:20 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> And rightly so .
Indeed it is.
> Carry on Ivor it won't be long before everyone here
> totally ignores you just as the spammers have been doing
> since this FORUM's creation .
I didn't create a forum Ron.
Ivor
| |
| Desk Rabbit 2007-06-13, 7:11 am |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message
> news:AbSdnc990oC6QPPbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@pi
pex.net
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Not necessarily. There are moderated newsgroups.
And this one isn't so it's a forum.
| |
| CheekyMonkey 2007-06-13, 7:11 am |
| Desk Rabbit wrote:
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> And this one isn't so it's a forum.
Whether a usenet newsgroup is moderated or not it is technically still a
usenet newsgroup. The main difference between forum and usenet is where
the data lives and the protocols involved. The issue is somewhat clouded
because of web-to-usenet gateways, that give a forum like appearance,
that however doesn't change what it is.
| |
| Desk Rabbit 2007-06-13, 1:11 pm |
| CheekyMonkey wrote:
> Desk Rabbit wrote:
>
> Whether a usenet newsgroup is moderated or not it is technically still a
> usenet newsgroup. The main difference between forum and usenet is where
> the data lives and the protocols involved. The issue is somewhat clouded
> because of web-to-usenet gateways, that give a forum like appearance,
> that however doesn't change what it is.
A forum is a place or medium in which people can have discussions that
are not moderated.
A newsgroup is a medium in which people can have discussions that are
not moderated.
Ergo a newsgroup is a forum and you are wrong.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
| |
| Desk Rabbit 2007-06-13, 1:11 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> <clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:gflt63dd45u8bbe0m3p9fm3d983t7sd0f5@
4ax.com
>
> Thereby lies the fault in your pathetic argument, Ron. America is a
> country, Europe is not.
The Americas are the lands of the Western hemisphere or New World
consisting of the continents of North America and South America with
their associated islands and regions.
The term the Americas is an alternative to the term America, which may
refer to either this entire landmass or just the United States of America.
And you are still a European ;-) Check your passport.
| |
| Desk Rabbit 2007-06-13, 1:11 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> <clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:2sau635pbg0usmsoinnb9bsmdfrsgs543r@
4ax.com
>
> Indeed it is.
>
>
> I didn't create a forum Ron.
Indeed you didn't.
You created a newsgroup which is a forum.
| |
| Desk Rabbit 2007-06-13, 1:11 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message
> news:CeednYywI6usRvPbnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@pi
pex.net
>
> I have given you all the facts. I don't have to prove anything.
Ivor you have not laid forth one single solitary fact to support your
argument that a newsgroup and this one in particular is not a forum. All
you have ever said is "No its not". That is not a fact, that is a statement.
<Sits backs and waits for facts but does not hold breath>
| |
| Paul Cupis 2007-06-13, 7:11 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> <clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:ilau6350jnbrodb1d8moaqa86gfcf595d9@
4ax.com
>
> Have you taken a poll of *all* users..?
Have you?
> Otherwise shut up.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-13, 7:11 pm |
|
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f4pcqe$2krs$1@energise.enta.net
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> Have you?
No. But I don't have to. The default is newsgroup unless and until you or
anyone else can *prove* with a poll of *all* users that it is otherwise.
[vbcol=seagreen]
I repeat the above line.
Ivor
| |
| Paul Cupis 2007-06-13, 7:11 pm |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f4pcqe$2krs$1@energise.enta.net
>
> No. But I don't have to. The default is newsgroup unless and until you or
> anyone else can *prove* with a poll of *all* users that it is otherwise.
You are the one whose opinion is in conflict with the majority of
posters to this thread. You seem to believe that this newsgroup is not a
forum. Others have provided evidence that it is. You have provided no
evidence whatsoever.
The burden of proof is now on you to provide something, anything, to
support your position.
>
> I repeat the above line.
Nice.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-13, 7:11 pm |
|
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f4pga6$2r0c$1@energise.enta.net
[snip]
> You are the one whose opinion is in conflict with the
> majority of posters to this thread. You seem to believe
> that this newsgroup is not a forum. Others have provided
> evidence that it is. You have provided no evidence
> whatsoever.
It is not a forum. Usenet convention says so. I am not going to repeat
myself any more.
Call it what you will, it is still not and never will be a forum.
> The burden of proof is now on you to provide something,
> anything, to support your position.
I repeat, I don't have to prove anything.
>
> Nice.
I am responding in kind.
Now, put up or shut up. Preferably the latter.
Ivor
| |
| Richard H Huelin 2007-06-14, 7:11 am |
| Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f4pga6$2r0c$1@energise.enta.net
>
> [snip]
>
>
> It is not a forum. Usenet convention says so. I am not going to repeat
> myself any more.
>
> Call it what you will, it is still not and never will be a forum.
From observing what goes on in this group for a couple of
years or so, it is clear that the the cretins who support
spam and who insist in calling a newsgroup a forum are
newbies, or so stupid that they do not know the difference
between a newsgroup and a forum. The fact that they are
happy to support spam and absorb the extra costs that spam
imposes on all users of the Internet tends to indicate that
they a completely clue resistant. Alternatively they might
be trolls who know that their behaviour will wind you up.
Either way continual responses to such cretins is a complete
waste of time.
>
> I repeat, I don't have to prove anything.
I suspect that no amount of proof you provide would stop the
cretins from disagreeing with you. For those who are clue
receptive the following links explain the difference between
a Newsgroup and a Forum.
http://tinyurl.com/3bxmkq
http://tinyurl.com/2t6vdy
http://tinyurl.com/33dxq5
>
> I am responding in kind.
>
> Now, put up or shut up. Preferably the latter.
Sadly no matter how often you try to explain the facts, the
cretins will still claim that black is white. Perhaps it is
time that you considered ceasing to take their bait and
started consigning them to the bozo bin.
| |
| Paul Cupis 2007-06-14, 7:11 am |
| On 2007-06-14, Richard H Huelin <august2006@nospammershere.co.uk> wrote:
> From observing what goes on in this group for a couple of
> years or so, it is clear that the the cretins who support
> spam and who insist in calling a newsgroup a forum are
> newbies, or so stupid that they do not know the difference
> between a newsgroup and a forum. The fact that they are
> happy to support spam and absorb the extra costs that spam
> imposes on all users of the Internet tends to indicate that
> they a completely clue resistant.
Interesting that you make a link between "supporting spam" and believing
that uk.telecom.voip is a forum.
Do you personally believe that the post which started this thread was
spam? I do not, and I certainly do not support spam at all, whether it
be usenet/email/webforum/blog based or otherwise.
> I suspect that no amount of proof you provide would stop the
> cretins from disagreeing with you. For those who are clue
> receptive the following links explain the difference between
> a Newsgroup and a Forum.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3bxmkq
Refers to some newsgroups as forums, such as:
uk.comp.graphics.flash
Forum for UK based Macromedia Flash users
uk.net.web.authoring
A forum for UK web developers
uk.org.mensa
Forum for items of interest to UK members of Mensa
uk.org.starlink.misc
Open forum (discussion related to Astronomy)
uk.people.bodyart
A UK-focused discussion forum on body modifications
> http://tinyurl.com/2t6vdy
Refers only to web forums, which every agrees is completely difference
to usenet anyway. We are talking about forums, not specifically
web-based forums.
"How to Understand the Difference Between Chat, Newsgroups and Web
Forums"
> http://tinyurl.com/33dxq5
"What is the difference between a message board and a newsgroup?
The main difference is that message boards belong to a particular
website but newsgroups are the internet's open discussion forums.
I'll repeat that for you:
"newsgroups are the internet's open discussion forums".
uk.telecom.voip is a newsgroup, yes, but it is also a forum,
specifically for the discussion of VoIP in the UK.
The links you have provided to support your position do not appear to do
so?
| |
| Paul Cupis 2007-06-14, 7:11 am |
| On 2007-06-13, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I am responding in kind.
How so? I've not told you to "shut up".
> Now, put up or shut up. Preferably the latter.
You've now told me to shut up 3 times in 3 messages. That is just rude,
and not particularly conducive to an adult conversation.
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-14, 1:11 pm |
| "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf72928.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home
[snip]
> "newsgroups are the internet's open discussion forums".
>
> uk.telecom.voip is a newsgroup, yes, but it is also a
> forum, specifically for the discussion of VoIP in the UK.
No. It is not a forum.
I am fed up with saying it as you only seem to want to inflame the
situation.
Call it what you will, you will not change the FACT that this NEWSGROUP is
NOT a forum.
A forum can take place within a newsgroup, yes, and I suspect this is
where you are going wrong. A newsgroup is not a forum in itself.
End.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-14, 1:11 pm |
|
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf7297l.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home
> On 2007-06-13, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> How so? I've not told you to "shut up".
Not in so many words, no. But your intention is clear.
>
> You've now told me to shut up 3 times in 3 messages. That
> is just rude, and not particularly conducive to an adult
> conversation.
You're not trying to have an adult conversation. An adult would not say
that a newsgroup is a forum.
Now do you want me to repeat myself yet again..?
Ivor
| |
| Paul Cupis 2007-06-14, 1:11 pm |
| On 2007-06-14, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
> You've now told me to shut up 3 times in 3 messages.
Sorry, it was of course twice in two messages. The previous example was
you telling someone else to shut up.
| |
| Paul Cupis 2007-06-14, 1:11 pm |
| On 2007-06-14, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> You're not trying to have an adult conversation. An adult would not say
> that a newsgroup is a forum.
Interesting. Why not? What makes uk.telecom.voip so special that it
cannot be refered to as a forum?
When you are going to provide even one example of this "convention" you
mention, or any other reference which supports your opinion?
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-14, 1:11 pm |
| "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf72j2g.l6f.paul@challenger.my.home
> On 2007-06-14, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> Interesting. Why not? What makes uk.telecom.voip so
> special that it cannot be refered to as a forum?
Sigh.. Because it *isn't* one.
> When you are going to provide even one example of this
> "convention" you mention, or any other reference which
> supports your opinion?
It's convention. Convention isn't always written down.
In any case, I don't have to. It's a fact. If you don't want to/can't
believe it, tough. You won't change it.
I do not propose to argue with you further.
Ivor
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-14, 1:11 pm |
|
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf72itk.l6f.paul@challenger.my.home
> On 2007-06-14, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Sorry, it was of course twice in two messages. The
> previous example was you telling someone else to shut up.
It hasn't worked though, worse luck.
I used to respect you, Paul. Now you've just shown yourself to be another
idiot like Ron Chew and all the rest.
Call this group what you like, I won't argue with you further, I'm too fed
up. But it isn't and *never will be* a forum.
End.
Ivor
| |
| Dave Higton 2007-06-14, 7:11 pm |
| In message <5dcrbtF34c6v1U1@mid.individual.net>
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnf72928.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home
>
> [snip]
>
>
> No. It is not a forum.
>
> I am fed up with saying it as you only seem to want to inflame the
> situation.
>
> Call it what you will, you will not change the FACT that this NEWSGROUP is
> NOT a forum.
But it manifestly /is/ a forum - in the general sense of the word.
I accept that there are other entities that are called forums (and
shouldn't they be "fora"?), in the specific Internet sense of the
word; but the existence of the specific sense in no way invalidates
the general sense, therefore, since users of this newsgroup use it
as a forum for discussions, it follows that it is a forum.
> A forum can take place within a newsgroup, yes, and I suspect this is
> where you are going wrong. A newsgroup is not a forum in itself.
There you go again with this logical nonsense. How can a forum
"take place"? It's as daft as saying that a street takes place.
Please explain yourself.
Dave
| |
| Frank-Joyce@blueyonder.co.uk 2007-06-14, 7:11 pm |
| On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:40:02 +0100, Richard H Huelin
<august2006@nospammershere.co.uk> wrote:
> From observing what goes on in this group for a couple of
>years or so, it is clear that the the cretins who support
>spam
Richard I do not think anyone here really supports spammers
and I take it that you do not either but neither do you or the vast
majority come here ranting and raving like an escapee from Rampton
the moment a posting that resembles spam appears here unlike one
particular poster .
Continually ranting and raving here about anything does no good at all
if one has a complaint about something that is posted to any group
then the complaint should be made to the offenders ISP not here where
the complaint will do no good at all except serve to annoy others .
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-15, 1:11 am |
|
"Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:360000f34e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com
> In message <5dcrbtF34c6v1U1@mid.individual.net>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> But it manifestly /is/ a forum - in the general sense of
> the word.
It is not the general sense of the word at issue here. It is Usenet
convention.
>I accept that there are other entities that are
> called forums (and shouldn't they be "fora"?)
Actually no.
>, in the
> specific Internet sense of the word; but the existence of
> the specific sense in no way invalidates the general
> sense, therefore, since users of this newsgroup use it as
> a forum for discussions, it follows that it is a forum.
No it *isn't* - how many more times..?!
>
>
> There you go again with this logical nonsense. How can a
> forum "take place"? It's as daft as saying that a street
> takes place. Please explain yourself.
I have done so ad nauseum.
I'm fed up now. Call it what you like, it still isn't a forum.
Ivor
>
> Dave
| |
| davehigton 2007-06-15, 7:11 am |
| On 15 Jun, 01:47, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Dave Higton" <davehig...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:360000f34e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com
>
>
>
> I have done so ad nauseum.
I'll be more specific, then. Please explain how you think that
a place can take place. You haven't attempted to explain
that.
Dave
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-15, 7:11 am |
| "davehigton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1181893023.110276.110410@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com
[snip]
> I'll be more specific, then. Please explain how you
> think that a place can take place. You haven't attempted
> to explain that.
I don't have to. But I will tell you this - in Usenet convention (which as
is often the case with convention isn't always written down) a forum is
web based and hosted on (usually) a single server, whereas a newsgroup is
hosted on multiple servers and isn't web based.
Does *that* make sense..? If not, sorry and all that. but hard luck. This
group *still* isn't a forum.
Ivor
| |
| cybuerke 2007-06-15, 7:11 am |
|
<Frank-Joyce@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u2h373pq9caq2mkkotslgkeelng9kfak7n@
4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:40:02 +0100, Richard H Huelin
> <august2006@nospammershere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Richard I do not think anyone here really supports spammers
> and I take it that you do not either but neither do you or the vast
> majority come here ranting and raving like an escapee from Rampton
> the moment a posting that resembles spam appears here unlike one
> particular poster .
> Continually ranting and raving here about anything does no good at all
> if one has a complaint about something that is posted to any group
> then the complaint should be made to the offenders ISP not here where
> the complaint will do no good at all except serve to annoy others .
Quite lucid. However - missing commas, sentences running into the next
without punctuation, space before a full stop....
Can't be himself with a dictionary at his side, can it?
| |
|
|
"cybuerke" <cybuerke@PLMgooglemail.com> wrote in message
news:f4tn22$37b$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> Quite lucid. However - missing commas, sentences running into the next
> without punctuation, space before a full stop....
>
> Can't be himself with a dictionary at his side, can it?
I think you're right, well spotted!
I haven't seen his other pseudonym posting for a while, and that post
slipped under my radar.
Rob
| |
| Dave Higton 2007-06-15, 7:11 pm |
| In message <5df3kcF33t6n5U1@mid.individual.net>
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "davehigton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:1181893023.110276.110410@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com
>
> [snip]
>
>
> I don't have to.
Ah, so you've ducked the question.
> But I will tell you this - in Usenet convention (which as
> is often the case with convention isn't always written down) a forum is
> web based and hosted on (usually) a single server, whereas a newsgroup is
> hosted on multiple servers and isn't web based.
>
> Does *that* make sense..? If not, sorry and all that. but hard luck.
Perfectly, and I agree with you - in your specific use and sense
of the word "forum". (And I have never disagreed with you on that
point.)
> This group *still* isn't a forum.
But it is also a forum, in the general sense of the word "forum",
because that's the use to which we all put it. A forum for
discussion. A place, albeit virtual or abstract, where we go to
discuss things. Does that make sense to you?
Dave
| |
| Ivor Jones 2007-06-15, 7:11 pm |
|
"Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:d6c87bf34e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com
> In message <5df3kcF33t6n5U1@mid.individual.net>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> Ah, so you've ducked the question.
Not at all. It's a question that has been answered elsewhere and I'm
getting tired of repeating myself.
>
> Perfectly, and I agree with you - in your specific use
> and sense of the word "forum". (And I have never
> disagreed with you on that point.)
>
>
> But it is also a forum, in the general sense of the word
> "forum", because that's the use to which we all put it.
> A forum for discussion. A place, albeit virtual or
> abstract, where we go to discuss things. Does that make
> sense to you?
No, it is not "also" anything. It is a newsgroup. And that is all.
Now can I go to bed..?
Ivor
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