Voice Over IP in UK - One line down, one to go + charges?

Author

One line down, one to go + charges?

T i m

2007-09-10, 7:11 am

So,

A while ago I was looking for a new router and considering VOIP (out
of interest and to possibly reduce some costs) and went for the
FritzBox Fon WLAN 7140.

After a bit of confusion getting it configured for cable it has proved
pretty reliable <touching wood> and handled everything we have thrown
at it .. from the stats ..

"Last month 3436MB / 32860MB" ;-)

Anyway, part of the cost reducing bit was to downgrade our VM package
by removing the telephone line, base TV pack and could then safely pay
by DD, (no 'variables' in the bill any more) saving the 'fine' for
paying instantly online?

I had set up Sipgate and voipuer accounts for me (but not really used
them) so yesterday (as all the services were cut off) setup the same
for our daughter (who was using the VM phone, we still have BT) and
transferred her DECT phone over to the FritzBox.

Everything seemed to work ok (for quick test calls at least) and I
credited a 333 min voucher I was given on her Sipgate account. Later I
put £10 on mine so I could play at least.

So, if I understand this correctly, I've suggested she gives her
voipuser number to people to ring in so she can build up some credits,
then she should be able to use it for outgoing calls as well?

Her number begins with 0844933 so what would the charge be to someone
calling that for a std BT line please (with no special deals etc). My
number starts with 0844979, should that be the same? Would either be
any different costwize from calling another std BT line?

At the moment her boyfriend is on a VM phone package and I think his
Mum has gone on one of the free evening / weekend deals. Would this
include the above voipuser numbers please (before we run them up a
large bill) :-(

I still haven't quite decided how to get him on voip (cos whatever I
choose I'll probably have to pay for .. it but might save us money in
the long run).

All the best ..

T i m

Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk

2007-09-10, 1:11 pm

T i m wrote:

> I had set up Sipgate and voipuer accounts for me (but not really used
> them) so yesterday (as all the services were cut off) setup the same
> for our daughter (who was using the VM phone, we still have BT) and
> transferred her DECT phone over to the FritzBox.
>
> Everything seemed to work ok (for quick test calls at least) and I
> credited a 333 min voucher I was given on her Sipgate account. Later I
> put £10 on mine so I could play at least.
>
> So, if I understand this correctly, I've suggested she gives her
> voipuser number to people to ring in so she can build up some credits,
> then she should be able to use it for outgoing calls as well?
>
> Her number begins with 0844933 so what would the charge be to someone
> calling that for a std BT line please (with no special deals etc). My
> number starts with 0844979, should that be the same? Would either be
> any different costwize from calling another std BT line?

I have several numbers set up through sipgate, an 0845 one and a regular
0117 number.

Can you not register a geographic number for your whereabouts?
I found this far easier and less confusing for people that don't
understand non 01,02 or 07 numbers, pluss it would be incorporated in
the free evening/weekend calls of any PSTN supplier like VM phone etc.

> At the moment her boyfriend is on a VM phone package and I think his
> Mum has gone on one of the free evening / weekend deals. Would this
> include the above voipuser numbers please (before we run them up a
> large bill) :-(

Are you confusing your voip user number with a regular telephone number?

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Fitness & Gym Equipment/nutrition specialists.
http://www.water-rower.co.uk - The ultimate rowing simulator.
http://www.BBE-Boxing-Equipment.co.uk - New Boxing Equipment site.
http://www.commercial-gym-equipment.co.uk - Commercial Gym Equipment.

T i m

2007-09-10, 1:11 pm

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:37:22 +0100, "Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
<0845-86-86-888@Cheapest-Prices.ever> wrote:

>T i m wrote:
>
<snip>
>
>I have several numbers set up through sipgate, an 0845 one and a regular
>0117 number.
>
>Can you not register a geographic number for your whereabouts?

Ah, sorry Pet, my fault. Yes, we have a Sipgate geographic number each
and I think I understand how the billing outgoing (from their tariff
lists) and incoming (assuming std geographic rules apply) should go.

>I found this far easier and less confusing for people that don't
>understand non 01,02 or 07 numbers, pluss it would be incorporated in
>the free evening/weekend calls of any PSTN supplier like VM phone etc.

Ah, ok, so you may have answered my question anyway then. So, for our
daughters b/f to make use of 'free evenings' from VM (say) would he
have to call her on her geographic Sipgate number and not the voipuser
0844 one?
>
>
>
>Are you confusing your voip user number with a regular telephone number?

Erm ... maybe?

If I haven't clarified my question in the above then I guess I'm just
confused to know how in our case we can get any community credits on
the voipuser number when that may not be free for her boyfriend to
call her on it and so he'd use the Sipgate number instead?

(Her) Boyfriend on VM with free Eve / Weekends. He calls our daughter
on one of her two voip numbers (Sipgate / voipuser).

Which and why please (assuming it matters).

All the best ..

T i m

Tim

2007-09-10, 1:11 pm

T i m wrote:
> Her number begins with 0844933 so what would the charge be to someone
> calling that for a std BT line please (with no special deals etc).

3p a minute all week.

Call type g10.

> My
> number starts with 0844979, should that be the same? Would either be
> any different costwize from calling another std BT line?

2p a minute all week. Call type g9

vat inclusive.

Prices from magsys.com

Not included in free minutes bundles.

Tim

Jono

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

After serious thinking Tim wrote :
> T i m wrote:
>
> 3p a minute all week.
>
> Call type g10.
>
>
>
> 2p a minute all week. Call type g9
>
> vat inclusive.
>
> Prices from magsys.com
>
> Not included in free minutes bundles.

And shortly to be 17ppm from O2 contract phones, which many, up to now
have included these destinations in bundled minutes.

T i m

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:16:54 +0100, Tim <nutnews@kooky.org> wrote:

>T i m wrote:
>
>3p a minute all week.
>
>Call type g10.
>
>
>
>2p a minute all week. Call type g9
>
>vat inclusive.
>
>Prices from magsys.com

Erm, not seen that before .. sorry to be a numpty is that
www.magsys.com ... and if so then where please? ;-(
>
>Not included in free minutes bundles.

Ok, good to know thanks.
>
>Tim

Thanks very much for that Tim. So, the only way he can call her free
in that instance is if he also has voip and they go voip <> voip?

Out of interest, do you know how come we got different rates (g9/10),
was it something I missed when setting up the service or is there some
lucky dip going on here?

Just to make sure ... he can get his free use from VM to her
geographic Sipgate number can't he?

Now, what to get to give him voip access ... we already donated a
little Belkin WiFi router and I've lent him an old laptop (the
'family' PC is in his Mums bedroom and she goes to bed early) so they
can chat (type) on MSN.

So, a cheap voip adaptor maybe ... Grandstream Handytone ATA-286 ..?

All the best ..

T i m

Brian A

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:20:24 +0100, Jono <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid>
wrote:

>After serious thinking Tim wrote :
>
>And shortly to be 17ppm from O2 contract phones, which many, up to now
>have included these destinations in bundled minutes.
>
I think that you might find that people won't call the 0844 number
because of the expense. You gain but they lose heavily.
I'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve overall.
It is perfectly possible for you to make calls for free between SIP
numbers providing that the respective providers haven't blocked them.
For example, if you found out the voipuser number (not the 0844 but
the generic SIP number) then it could be dialled via sipbroker. The
code for voipuser is *431 followed by the SIP number. Unfortunately, a
big problem with the Fritbox is that it won't let you use a * as part
of a dialling sequence because it reserves * for it's so called 'quick
dial' numbers. I use voxalot.com to get round that.
Sipgate blocks Sipbroker calls.
Take a look at voip.co.uk 'UK Pack'. You'll get a geo number that the
b/f can call with the Virgin minutes. £20/year will cover you for all
your off-peak UK geographic calls. It will work fine with the
Fritzbox.
http://www.voip.co.uk/res_products.html

---
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

Sign the petition to get High Definition TV via Freeview.
Get your friends to sign too!
Ofcom want to auction off the spectrum needed for Hi Def.
TV.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/High-Definition/
---

T i m

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:52:06 GMT, Brian A
<no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I think that you might find that people won't call the 0844 number
>because of the expense.

Ok. Erm, was there a better (number) option to choose on voipuser then
Brian?

> You gain but they lose heavily.

We rack up 'community credits' at their cost you mean?

>I'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve overall.

Ok (and sorry if I don't use the right terms etc) ..

Phase 1) We have just lost a pstn line and want to replace is as much
as possible / practical with a voip service (of some sort). We have a
DECT phone and FritzBox (and I'll be getting a dect for voip for
myself soon). She wants to be able to pick up her phone and call
anywhere at anytime at rates (ideally) no worse than BT / VM std PSTN
service and have ordinary pstn / mobile users call her at no extra
cost (above to a std BT / VM pstn call) to them.

Phase 2) So <whatever> at boyfriends end so they can talk voip <> voip
(once I supply him suitable kit to connect to his existing VM / cable
WiFi router).

>It is perfectly possible for you to make calls for free between SIP
>numbers providing that the respective providers haven't blocked them.

Understood, but at the moment only one end of this particular pairing
(Daughter and boyfriend .. only 3 miles apart as the crow flies) has a
voip setup, ours. He potentially has a discounted (possibly 'fee',
evenings and weekends) VM pstn package and has been calling her on her
VM pstn phone till it was recently removed (so VM to VM pstn as it
happens).

>For example, if you found out the voipuser number (not the 0844 but
>the generic SIP number) then it could be dialled via sipbroker.

Erm, now there are a load of 'why / what''s Brian.

Ok, so we have a starting point. Our daughter now has a dect phone in
her room and if I dial (say) her geographic Sipgate number from our
home BT phone, her phone rings (via the FritzBox Fon2) and we talk.
This will cost us on our BT line a local call (?) at the appropriate
rate (day / eve-weekend etc)?

If I dial out via my phone plugged into my FritzBox (Fon1) and dial
(via my Sipgate 'line') *123#[1]<daughters number> her phone rings and
we talk (not actually done this yet but it should work shouldn't it)?

> The
>code for voipuser is *431 followed by the SIP number.

So in our case (her on Sipgate), her 'SIP number' is
<areacode><hernumber> ?

> Unfortunately, a
>big problem with the Fritbox is that it won't let you use a * as part
>of a dialling sequence because it reserves * for it's so called 'quick
>dial' numbers.

Ok .. hmmm, so I'm not sure what the *431 does Brian .. :-(

> I use voxalot.com to get round that.

Ok ... <sigh> more signup's / services ..... ?

>Sipgate blocks Sipbroker calls.

I was aware some services block each other but not ones in particular
etc.

>Take a look at voip.co.uk 'UK Pack'. You'll get a geo number that the
>b/f can call with the Virgin minutes.

This is still ok from a land line isn't it (ie, we aren't talking
'free mins' on a mobile as such)?

> £20/year will cover you for all
>your off-peak UK geographic calls. It will work fine with the
>Fritzbox.

Hmm, that was about the actual call cost of her PSTN line / year ...
and hence why the rental cost was just silly ..

>http://www.voip.co.uk/res_products.html

Hmm, looks good.

So, once she has used up her free 333 mins on Sipgate we register with
(just) voip.co.uk and can we then have two geographical numbers (one
for each of us) on one common account (for the £20/pa) or would we
have to have one account each please?

We don't want anything fancy ... ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

[1] The dial prefix the Fritzbox gave to my Sipgate number (*123#)

Iain

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

> Thanks very much for that Tim. So, the only way he can call her free
> in that instance is if he also has voip and they go voip <> voip?

Far better to use a proper geographical number from Sipgate, rather than
expecting your callers to subsidise your phone calls.

> Out of interest, do you know how come we got different rates (g9/10),
> was it something I missed when setting up the service or is there some
> lucky dip going on here?

Just different levels of greed.

> Just to make sure ... he can get his free use from VM to her
> geographic Sipgate number can't he?

Yes, so why piss around with 0844 numbers?
>
> Now, what to get to give him voip access ... we already donated a
> little Belkin WiFi router and I've lent him an old laptop (the
> 'family' PC is in his Mums bedroom and she goes to bed early) so they
> can chat (type) on MSN.

So install a softphone such as xlite and he can make phone calls for free

> So, a cheap voip adaptor maybe ... Grandstream Handytone ATA-286 ..?

They seem cheap, but I've found them unreliable in the long term. Better
to buy a PAP2 even though it costs more.

T i m

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:27:42 +0100, Iain <no-one@hairydog.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>
>Far better to use a proper geographical number from Sipgate, rather than
>expecting your callers to subsidise your phone calls.

Ok, well we have a pair of those already so that's ok. I thought the
'voipuser' deal was more 'community' than that .. ;-(
>
>
>Just different levels of greed.

Ah :-(
>
>
>
>Yes, so why piss around with 0844 numbers?

Well, I *thought* (I'm a voip noob don't forget) that if voipuser
users could make calls free based on people calling in at the same
tariff as normal then it was a good idea. Now I realise 0844 isn't
'std' rate .. ;-(
>
>So install a softphone such as xlite and he can make phone calls for free

But would have to have his PC on (so they could use Skype / MSN
anyway)?
>
>
>They seem cheap, but I've found them unreliable in the long term. Better
>to buy a PAP2 even though it costs more.

Ok, thanks Iain.

So, dump the voipuser accounts and *just* stick with Sipgate or have
something else just_in_case like a voip.co.uk account?

All the best ..

T i m

Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

T i m wrote:

> So, dump the voipuser accounts and *just* stick with Sipgate or have
> something else just_in_case like a voip.co.uk account?

That's what I'd go for.
As much as I had problems with sipgate when I first started with regards
to temperamental call quality; when I have used it to speak to other
sipgate numbers call quality has always been fine.

If call quality becomes an issue, try another provider.

as a side note, I can highly recommend voipfone.co.uk for your primary
and only required account. Some cracking features come as standard like
call hold and call divert where you can put the caller on hold and
re-dial another voipfone number and just transfer the call FOC.

It is also especially useful for PAYG mobile phones.

You register your mobile with your account, then have an auto top-up on
the account from your supplied credit card.

Dial a specific number from the mobile which will return a "busy" tone,
hang up and a few seconds later your voipfone account will call your mobile.
Just dial the number you wish to phone and off you go.

If you have your home logged in on your account then you can phone your
supplied voipfone 056 number and only pay for the voipfone -> mobile leg
of the call. Far cheaper than typical PAYG mobile rates and always in
credit.

A very pro-active company which has some cracking features.

I especially like the "telesales dump" extension number "##166", which I
have used a great many times with remarkable effect.
Only down side if you want a geographical telephone number is it costs a
whopping £1.99 a month!
:¬)

CHeers
Pete

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Fitness & Gym Equipment/nutrition specialists.
http://www.water-rower.co.uk - The ultimate rowing simulator.
http://www.BBE-Boxing-Equipment.co.uk - New Boxing Equipment site.
http://www.commercial-gym-equipment.co.uk - Commercial Gym Equipment.

T i m

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:42:21 +0100, "Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
<0845-86-86-888@Cheapest-Prices.ever> wrote:

>T i m wrote:
>
>
>That's what I'd go for.
>As much as I had problems with sipgate when I first started with regards
>to temperamental call quality; when I have used it to speak to other
>sipgate numbers call quality has always been fine.

Our Daughter has just finished an hour's call (via Sipgate) and she
said it was fine. I even turned Voice Activation Detection on during
the call (as I wanted a bit of web browsing bandwidth and she said
there was a slight hiccup then it was ok again (assuming it
implemented it straight away of course).
>
>If call quality becomes an issue, try another provider.

Ok ..
>
>as a side note, I can highly recommend voipfone.co.uk for your primary
>and only required account. Some cracking features come as standard like
>call hold and call divert where you can put the caller on hold and
>re-dial another voipfone number and just transfer the call FOC.

Ok, I'll give it a look thanks.
>
>It is also especially useful for PAYG mobile phones.

Ok ...
>
>You register your mobile with your account, then have an auto top-up on
>the account from your supplied credit card.

Sri, what tops up what?
>
>Dial a specific number from the mobile which will return a "busy" tone,
>hang up and a few seconds later your voipfone account will call your mobile.
>Just dial the number you wish to phone and off you go.

Ah, that sounds like it will be cheaper yes?
>
>If you have your home logged in on your account then you can phone your
>supplied voipfone 056 number and only pay for the voipfone -> mobile leg
>of the call. Far cheaper than typical PAYG mobile rates and always in
>credit.

Nice .. worth looking into then ..
>
>A very pro-active company which has some cracking features.

Sounds like it.
>
>I especially like the "telesales dump" extension number "##166", which I
>have used a great many times with remarkable effect.
>Only down side if you want a geographical telephone number is it costs a
>whopping £1.99 a month!
>:¬)

But as you say .. could work out cheaper (than say having a VM pstn
line) with all the extra features in the long run.

Might learn to walk with Sipgate first though ... ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk

2007-09-10, 7:11 pm

T i m wrote:

>
> Sri, what tops up what?

Sorry Tim,
You register your credit card to the voipfone account to pay for any
non-inclusive calls. You can just top-up with an amount and you'll be
notified when the account is nearly empty or you can have an auto top-up
so for example when the account gets to £1 or whatever, a top-up of £10
or £20 etc is automatically applied to your account.

> Might learn to walk with Sipgate first though ... ;-)

Good idea.
That's how I started, right up to the point I wasn't able to add credit
to the account and the call quality was abysmal.
I think it has all improved since then though.
:¬)

Cheers
Pete

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Fitness & Gym Equipment/nutrition specialists.
http://www.water-rower.co.uk - The ultimate rowing simulator.
http://www.BBE-Boxing-Equipment.co.uk - New Boxing Equipment site.
http://www.commercial-gym-equipment.co.uk - Commercial Gym Equipment.

Ivor Jones

2007-09-11, 1:11 am

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:473be3p2uu9o33hce14grru7h43fcthcrk@
4ax.com

[snip]

: : I'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve overall.
: : It is perfectly possible for you to make calls for free
: : between SIP numbers providing that the respective
: : providers haven't blocked them. For example, if you
: : found out the voipuser number (not the 0844 but the
: : generic SIP number) then it could be dialled via
: : sipbroker. The code for voipuser is *431 followed by
: : the SIP number. Unfortunately, a big problem with the
: : Fritbox is that it won't let you use a * as part of a
: : dialling sequence because it reserves * for it's so
: : called 'quick dial' numbers. I use voxalot.com to get
: : round that.

Actually you can. Dial *# and you will receive dial tone from the
Fritz!Box back again. Then any further digits you enter will be passed to
the other end.

Ivor

T i m

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

T i m

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:28:43 +0100, "Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
<0845-86-86-888@Cheapest-Prices.ever> wrote:

>T i m wrote:
>
>
>Sorry Tim,
>You register your credit card to the voipfone account to pay for any
>non-inclusive calls. You can just top-up with an amount and you'll be
>notified when the account is nearly empty or you can have an auto top-up
>so for example when the account gets to £1 or whatever, a top-up of £10
>or £20 etc is automatically applied to your account.

Ah, so if you are doing some of that clever 'from mobile ring back
dial Australia stuff you don't run out of voip credit etc?
>
>
>Good idea.

It doesn't happen often Pet .. ;-(

>That's how I started, right up to the point I wasn't able to add credit
>to the account and the call quality was abysmal.

I must admit I did have some issues setting up both accounts .. the
site timing out just after you selected the geographic area and it
offering the actual number etc? Then it would ask you to select the
number from the list (even though there only ever seems to be one?)
but doesn't offer you a number etc? After a few goes it worked and
after that it seems to have been ok (making account changes, adding
credit, displaying the online status etc).

The *reason* I have started with Sipgate is because it was suggested
here a while ago, it seems to be tied in with AVM and we had a 333 min
voucher.

>I think it has all improved since then though.

Well time will tell of course.

The first 'observation' from this exercise is that it kills my
browsing bandwidth when a call is up. Not unusable but I certainly
couldn't play an online FPS like that. So_much_so that I don't even
think the promised VM 'fee network speed upgrade' (from 2 > 4Mb/s) I
heard mention will make much difference?

What we could still do is get her boyfriend to ring her on our BT line
(still free to him with his VM pstn package) and leave the Sipgate
number for 'other calls' (friends / family etc)?

All the best ..

T i m

Ivor Jones

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

"T i m" <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:hjgce396ug6os5b9dtis7ub8f6jn1gkm9d@
4ax.com
: : On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:26:02 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
: : <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
: :
: : : "Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in
: : : message
: : : news:473be3p2uu9o33hce14grru7h43fcthcrk@
4ax.com
: : :
: : : [snip]
: : :
: : : : : I'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve
: : : : : overall. It is perfectly possible for you to make
: : : : : calls for free between SIP numbers providing that
: : : : : the respective providers haven't blocked them.
: : : : : For example, if you found out the voipuser number
: : : : : (not the 0844 but the generic SIP number) then it
: : : : : could be dialled via sipbroker. The code for
: : : : : voipuser is *431 followed by the SIP number.
: : : : : Unfortunately, a big problem with the Fritbox is
: : : : : that it won't let you use a * as part of a
: : : : : dialling sequence because it reserves * for it's
: : : : : so called 'quick dial' numbers. I use voxalot.com
: : : : : to get round that.
: : :
: : : Actually you can. Dial *# and you will receive dial
: : : tone from the Fritz!Box back again. Then any further
: : : digits you enter will be passed to the other end.
: :
: : Is that to dial out over pstn Ivor or otherwise how
: : would it know what voip service to use?

Not quite sure what you mean there. In any case, if you need to use a * as
the initial 'digit' of a dialled number, dial *# first, you'll get dial
tone back. Then the * will be passed to the other end instead of being
absorbed by the Fritz!Box.

Ivor

T i m

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:21:04 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

>: : : Actually you can. Dial *# and you will receive dial
>: : : tone from the Fritz!Box back again. Then any further
>: : : digits you enter will be passed to the other end.
>: :
>: : Is that to dial out over pstn Ivor or otherwise how
>: : would it know what voip service to use?
>
>Not quite sure what you mean there. In any case, if you need to use a * as
>the initial 'digit' of a dialled number, dial *# first, you'll get dial
>tone back. Then the * will be passed to the other end instead of being
>absorbed by the Fritz!Box.

Yes, sorry, I understood that bit Ivor and maybe I confused you
because I'm using the FritzBox or services incorrectly?

We currently have 4 voip services established 2 x Sipgate and 2 x
voipuser (one each for daughter and I). So, if I want to dial out I
understood I dial say *121#<mates_number> (as opposed to *122#, *123#
or *124#) to ensure I go out using *my* Sipgate service?

I assume I could then also include a * in the dialstring if I wanted?

All the best ..

T i m

Brian A

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:26:02 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

>"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:473be3p2uu9o33hce14grru7h43fcthcrk@
4ax.com
>
>[snip]
>
>: : I'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve overall.
>: : It is perfectly possible for you to make calls for free
>: : between SIP numbers providing that the respective
>: : providers haven't blocked them. For example, if you
>: : found out the voipuser number (not the 0844 but the
>: : generic SIP number) then it could be dialled via
>: : sipbroker. The code for voipuser is *431 followed by
>: : the SIP number. Unfortunately, a big problem with the
>: : Fritbox is that it won't let you use a * as part of a
>: : dialling sequence because it reserves * for it's so
>: : called 'quick dial' numbers. I use voxalot.com to get
>: : round that.
>
>Actually you can. Dial *# and you will receive dial tone from the
>Fritz!Box back again. Then any further digits you enter will be passed to
>the other end.
>
>Ivor
>
Thanks for that Ivor. Although I didn't hear a dial tone come back it
does work for dialling sipbroker numbers.
I checked it out by dialling
*#*18005558355
I realise that I didn't explain Sipbroker in my last post in this
thread.
In case anyone reading this didn't know, this is a way of calling US
1800 numbers for free.
To use Sipbroker you don't need a username or password. Just enter
sipbroker.com as the the host and anything you like for username and
password. Then you can use Sipbroker for accessing the many SIP
networks listed here:-
http://tinyurl.com/23xg9w
Just enter the Sipbroker code and follow it by the SIP number on that
network.
To call a SIP number from a standard landline call one of the PSTN
access nimbers listed on the Sipbroker web site. When the call, to the
PSTN access number, is answered enter your sipbroker number.

You will see that Sipgate, Plusnet, BT, Voipcheap (and like), and
voip.co.uk block Sipbroker but Gradwell, Orbtalk,
Voiptalk and Voipfone do not.

---
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

Sign the petition to get High Definition TV via Freeview.
Get your friends to sign too!
Ofcom want to auction off the spectrum needed for Hi Def.
TV.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/High-Definition/
---

Brian A

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:54:15 GMT, T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:28:43 +0100, "Pet - www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
><0845-86-86-888@Cheapest-Prices.ever> wrote:
>
>
>Ah, so if you are doing some of that clever 'from mobile ring back
>dial Australia stuff you don't run out of voip credit etc?
>
>It doesn't happen often Pet .. ;-(
>
>
>I must admit I did have some issues setting up both accounts .. the
>site timing out just after you selected the geographic area and it
>offering the actual number etc? Then it would ask you to select the
>number from the list (even though there only ever seems to be one?)
>but doesn't offer you a number etc? After a few goes it worked and
>after that it seems to have been ok (making account changes, adding
>credit, displaying the online status etc).
>
>The *reason* I have started with Sipgate is because it was suggested
>here a while ago, it seems to be tied in with AVM and we had a 333 min
>voucher.
>
>
>Well time will tell of course.
>
>The first 'observation' from this exercise is that it kills my
>browsing bandwidth when a call is up. Not unusable but I certainly
>couldn't play an online FPS like that. So_much_so that I don't even
>think the promised VM 'fee network speed upgrade' (from 2 > 4Mb/s) I
>heard mention will make much difference?
>
>What we could still do is get her boyfriend to ring her on our BT line
>(still free to him with his VM pstn package) and leave the Sipgate
>number for 'other calls' (friends / family etc)?
>
>All the best ..
>
>T i m
If you want to integrate your BT line with your voip services take a
look at a Fritzbox or a Linksys 3102. This means that your outgoing
calls will, automatically, be routed via voip or landline, as you
choose, depending on number type. Incloming calls, from voip or
landline, will ring on the same set of phones.
Ask for futher details if you need them but you'll find lots of posts
on these if you use
http://groups.google.co.uk/
and 'Search Groups' at the top of the page.
The Fritzbox, it can be argued, is easier to set up but the Linksys is
FAR superior in respect of its dial plan provision - but then you have
to learn how to do it - same goes for a PAP2, as mentioned earlier.
If you buy a PAP2 then buy it new and UNLOCKED and NOT from ebay.
I say this because it would not be good if someone, new to the game
ends, up with an ex Vonage box.

---
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

Sign the petition to get High Definition TV via Freeview.
Get your friends to sign too!
Ofcom want to auction off the spectrum needed for Hi Def.
TV.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/High-Definition/
---

T i m

2007-09-11, 7:11 am

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:25:33 GMT, Brian A
<no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
>If you want to integrate your BT line with your voip services take a
>look at a Fritzbox or a Linksys 3102.

I have the FritzBox 1740 Brian ;-)

> This means that your outgoing
>calls will, automatically, be routed via voip or landline, as you
>choose, depending on number type. Incloming calls, from voip or
>landline, will ring on the same set of phones.

Well I sorta already tried this but because we already have a 1x5 PABX
in this house I'm not sure I tried it the right way.

I initially plugged the 1740 into an extension of the PABX and the
phone normally in that extension in Fon1 of the 1740. I could make and
receive calls via voip and pstn but with the 1740 also being a PABX
there was a bit of difficulty re catching the right number of rings to
answer an incoming pstn call before an answering machine on another
extension did.

If we do it the other way round with the PABX hanging off the 1740
then we will only be able to handle one call at a time.

We could have the 1740 in parallel with the PABX on the BT line but
I'm not sure how that would work out!

> Ask for futher details if you need them but you'll find lots of posts
>on these if you use
>http://groups.google.co.uk/
>and 'Search Groups' at the top of the page.

Ok ..

>The Fritzbox, it can be argued, is easier to set up but the Linksys is
>FAR superior in respect of its dial plan provision

Ok.

>- but then you have
>to learn how to do it -

I must admit the DSL setup for the 1740 wasn't 'straightforward' but
ok once you have done it. Hindsight is always a good thing of course
... ;-)

>same goes for a PAP2, as mentioned earlier.
>If you buy a PAP2 then buy it new and UNLOCKED and NOT from ebay.
>I say this because it would not be good if someone, new to the game
>ends, up with an ex Vonage box.

Ah, understood.

At the moment (as of last night) our daughter is having 'confidence
issues' with her 2 yr standing boyfriend so I'm reluctant to spend too
much time and money in that direction (in case they split up) and
especially if he can phone either our land line or her voip line free
on his Mum's VM dial plan already. I will keep looking / experimenting
though ..

All the best ..

T i m

Ivor Jones

2007-09-11, 1:11 pm

"T i m" <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:s5mce39um3lp14f7f4mnqtj1m99mhd9ovi@
4ax.com

[snip]

: : We currently have 4 voip services established 2 x
: : Sipgate and 2 x voipuser (one each for daughter and I).
: : So, if I want to dial out I understood I dial say
: : *121#<mates_number> (as opposed to *122#, *123# or
: : *124#) to ensure I go out using *my* Sipgate service?
: :
: : I assume I could then also include a * in the
: : dialstring if I wanted?

The Fritz!Box has 2 phone ports and by default the first two accounts dial
out from those two sockets. There is no need to select accounts 1 and 2,
you only need to do this to dial out on accounts 3 and above.

So if you had a Sipgate number on a/c 1 and voipuser on a/c 2 then simply
picking up the relevant phone will automatically call out on those lines.
To select a/c 3 you would dial *123# or *123## (the second # will return
dial tone on the selected account).

Incoming calls will ring whichever phone you select in the config, you can
have socket 1 ringing for a/c 1 and socket 2 for a/c 2 and both for a/c's
3 & 4 or whatever combination you choose.

Hope this helps,

Ivor

Ivor Jones

2007-09-11, 1:11 pm

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0noce3h792isc5e6cst00lqsq78hapnf6c@
4ax.com
: : On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:26:02 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
: : <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

: : : Actually you can. Dial *# and you will receive dial
: : : tone from the Fritz!Box back again. Then any further
: : : digits you enter will be passed to the other end.
: : :
: : : Ivor
: : :
: : Thanks for that Ivor. Although I didn't hear a dial
: : tone come back it does work for dialling sipbroker
: : numbers.
: : I checked it out by dialling
: : *#*18005558355
: : I realise that I didn't explain Sipbroker in my last
: : post in this thread.
: : In case anyone reading this didn't know, this is a way
: : of calling US 1800 numbers for free.

Ok. I use FreeWorldDialup for that, it works in the same way. I also use
it to terminate my Ipkall US number since Sipgate no longer allow this.

Ivor

T i m

2007-09-11, 7:11 pm

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:57:39 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

>"T i m" <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:s5mce39um3lp14f7f4mnqtj1m99mhd9ovi@
4ax.com
>
>[snip]
>
>: : We currently have 4 voip services established 2 x
>: : Sipgate and 2 x voipuser (one each for daughter and I).
>: : So, if I want to dial out I understood I dial say
>: : *121#<mates_number> (as opposed to *122#, *123# or
>: : *124#) to ensure I go out using *my* Sipgate service?
>: :
>: : I assume I could then also include a * in the
>: : dialstring if I wanted?
>
>The Fritz!Box has 2 phone ports and by default the first two accounts dial
>out from those two sockets. There is no need to select accounts 1 and 2,
>you only need to do this to dial out on accounts 3 and above.

Ah, neat, thanks. So, if my Accounts go Sipgate, Voipuser, Sipgate,
Voipuser and I delete the voipuser ones with the other one shuffle up
to position two and / or can I re number them do you know please Ivor?
>
>So if you had a Sipgate number on a/c 1 and voipuser on a/c 2 then simply
>picking up the relevant phone will automatically call out on those lines.
>To select a/c 3 you would dial *123# or *123## (the second # will return
>dial tone on the selected account).

Ok.
>
>Incoming calls will ring whichever phone you select in the config, you can
>have socket 1 ringing for a/c 1 and socket 2 for a/c 2 and both for a/c's
>3 & 4 or whatever combination you choose.
>
Yep, understand and have configured that bit ok I think ;-)

>Hope this helps,

Indeed it does thanks

All the best ..

T i m

nickbeee@hotmail.com

2007-09-14, 7:11 pm

On Sep 10, 9:49 pm, T i m <n...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:27:42 +0100, Iain <no-...@hairydog.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok, well we have a pair of those already so that's ok. I thought the
> 'voipuser' deal was more 'community' than that .. ;-(
>
>
>
>
>
> Ah :-(
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, I *thought* (I'm a voip noob don't forget) that ifvoipuser
> users could make calls free based on people calling in at the same
> tariff as normal then it was a good idea. Now I realise 0844 isn't
> 'std' rate .. ;-(
>
>
>
>
>
> But would have to have his PC on (so they could use Skype / MSN
> anyway)?
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok, thanks Iain.
>
> So, dump thevoipuseraccounts and *just* stick with Sipgate or have
> something else just_in_case like a voip.co.uk account?
>

You can actually call voipuser.org numbers via a geo number via a
sipbroker pstn number, avoiding calling the 08449 prefix direct and
using your inclusive/unlimited minutes.

If your voipuser.org number is 08449xxyyzz then ring a sipbroker
access number eg 01213148447 then at the prompt dial *44808449xxyyzz

*448 is the sipbroker prefix for voipuser.org. THe downside of this is
that voipuser.org don't make any money from the call

T i m

2007-09-14, 7:11 pm

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:06:03 -0700, nickbeee@hotmail.com wrote:

>You can actually call voipuser.org numbers via a geo number via a
>sipbroker pstn number, avoiding calling the 08449 prefix direct and
>using your inclusive/unlimited minutes.
>
>If your voipuser.org number is 08449xxyyzz then ring a sipbroker
>access number eg 01213148447 then at the prompt dial *44808449xxyyzz
>
>*448 is the sipbroker prefix for voipuser.org. THe downside of this is
>that voipuser.org don't make any money from the call

Well that seems straight forward enough! .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

nickbeee@hotmail.com

2007-09-15, 7:11 am

On Sep 14, 10:14 pm, T i m <n...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:06:03 -0700, nickb...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Well that seems straight forward enough! .. ;-)
>
Sorry, slight correction, you need to terminate the number with a hash
i.e.
*44808449xxyyzz#

I guess you've got it figured by now!

T i m

2007-09-15, 7:11 am

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:34:29 -0700, nickbeee@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Sep 14, 10:14 pm, T i m <n...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>Sorry, slight correction, you need to terminate the number with a hash
>i.e.
>*44808449xxyyzz#
>
>I guess you've got it figured by now!

No, not really Nick, well I guess most of the basic stuff (in that I
can mostly do what I need to do) just not the extra bits and the very
extra bits as you offered. ;-)

Like, We can dial out over both VoIP line and both receive calls to
our own numbers etc.

I just used my daughters line to register an XP Home PC I am building
for my Mum and that was very clear and reliable (lots of key tones
sent over the line etc).

I suppose because it's (VoIP) *all* new to me I'm trying to learn not
only the jargon but the range of settings available *(FB etc) and the
limitations / restrictions, the service providers AND the 'extra'
features VoIP provides over yer basic PSTN, all at the same time ...
:-(

Oh well, we are getting there ... with some help from our friends ..
;-)

All the best ..

T i m