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Websphere Topology Question
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| Frank A 2004-05-26, 2:30 am |
| I've been reading up on the various ways websphere can be deployed and
scaled. Just to get a second (more experienced opinion).
1) In the situation where I want to have multiple JVM's running my web
application on the same box, what would the recommended deployment of
websphere be?
2) If I want to be able to scale horizontally across multiple boxes, what
type of deployement would be used?
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| Glen Burson 2004-05-26, 4:31 pm |
| Hi Frank,
Depends what you mean by recommended deployment I guess, and which version
of WebSphere you are talking about. All versions of WebSphere I have used
(3.5, 4.0.x, 5.x) support horizontal and vertical scaling.
Can you elaborate a bit?
Cheers,
Glen.
"Frank A" <notme@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:U4Rsc.49341$cz5.18049339@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> I've been reading up on the various ways websphere can be deployed and
> scaled. Just to get a second (more experienced opinion).
>
> 1) In the situation where I want to have multiple JVM's running my web
> application on the same box, what would the recommended deployment of
> websphere be?
>
> 2) If I want to be able to scale horizontally across multiple boxes, what
> type of deployement would be used?
>
>
>
| |
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| In article <c91irf$8aqg$1@news.boulder.ibm.com>, Glen Burson wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> Depends what you mean by recommended deployment I guess, and which version
> of WebSphere you are talking about. All versions of WebSphere I have used
> (3.5, 4.0.x, 5.x) support horizontal and vertical scaling.
>
> Can you elaborate a bit?
>
> Cheers,
> Glen.
>
> "Frank A" <notme@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:U4Rsc.49341$cz5.18049339@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
>
In my situation (I'm new to WAS) the developers setup in production
a cluster of WAS servers with two WAS servers on each of two
physical nodes/boxes. This is WAS 5.0. Any guesses or thoughts on
how this might/could perform?
Mike
| |
| Frank A 2004-05-26, 4:31 pm |
|
"Glen Burson" <gburson@salmon.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:c91irf$8aqg$1@news.boulder.ibm.com...
> Hi Frank,
>
> Depends what you mean by recommended deployment I guess, and which version
> of WebSphere you are talking about. All versions of WebSphere I have used
> (3.5, 4.0.x, 5.x) support horizontal and vertical scaling.
>
> Can you elaborate a bit?
>
> Cheers,
> Glen.
>
Sorry about my vague post... I guess my first question starts with what
benefits does a network deployment give me over a standard deployment. As
of right now I will be deploying multiple applications on one box and my
only requirement is that each application have its own JVM and JVM settings.
I'm not sure if my requirements for the individual JVM should dictate how I
install and configure websphere.
Hopefully thats a more clear question.
Frank
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| Ken Hygh 2004-05-26, 4:31 pm |
| Frank A wrote:
>"Glen Burson" <gburson@salmon.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>news:c91irf$8aqg$1@news.boulder.ibm.com...
>
>
>
>Sorry about my vague post... I guess my first question starts with what
>benefits does a network deployment give me over a standard deployment. As
>of right now I will be deploying multiple applications on one box and my
>only requirement is that each application have its own JVM and JVM settings.
>I'm not sure if my requirements for the individual JVM should dictate how I
>install and configure websphere.
>
>Hopefully thats a more clear question.
>
>Frank
>
>
>
>
>
Make sure that the sum of the max heap sizes of all JVMs is smaller
than the physical memory. A swapping JVM is a terrible.
Network Deployment vs. standard: you can do clustering of the same app
across multiple JVMs, whether on the same machine or different machines.
You can get failover and workload management. If all you have are single
instances of apps/JVMs, then you get a single point of administration.
Ken
| |
| Ken Hygh 2004-05-26, 4:31 pm |
| Mike wrote:
>In article <c91irf$8aqg$1@news.boulder.ibm.com>, Glen Burson wrote:
>
>
>
>In my situation (I'm new to WAS) the developers setup in production
>a cluster of WAS servers with two WAS servers on each of two
>physical nodes/boxes. This is WAS 5.0. Any guesses or thoughts on
>how this might/could perform?
>
>Mike
>
>
42.
Assuming that answer's not good enough, here's some thoughts:
Most of the time, it's not a JVM that fails but something about the
machine itself, so vertical clustering (multiples of the same appserver
& its apps on the same machine) is typically not too helpful. An
exception to this is a situation where a JVM isn't able to fully utilize
all of the processors in a very large machine, which generally only
happens on a 12+ processor box.
The only real answer is "test and see". There are too many variables on
request rates, machine resources, backends, etc. to be able to give any
kind of general answer.
Ken
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| Henrik Sjostrand 2004-05-26, 11:30 pm |
| Ken Hygh <kenhygh@nc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<c92ad5$4386$1@news.boulder.ibm.com>...
> Frank A wrote:
>
> Make sure that the sum of the max heap sizes of all JVMs is smaller
> than the physical memory. A swapping JVM is a terrible.
>
> Network Deployment vs. standard: you can do clustering of the same app
> across multiple JVMs, whether on the same machine or different machines.
> You can get failover and workload management. If all you have are single
> instances of apps/JVMs, then you get a single point of administration.
>
> Ken
Just to follow-up; When we talk about Network Deployment it's actually
a product packaging of WebSphere Application Server, called
(surprisingly) WebSphere Application Server v5 Network Deployment
(usually also called WAS 5 ND). There's no such thing as a "standard
deployment", but there's a product packaging called WebSphere
Application Server v5 (usually also called "WAS 5 Base").
If you would deploy multiple applications, each in its own JVM, on one
single machine you could either use only WAS v5 Base or WAS v5 Base &
WAS v5 ND. The ND packaging would give you easier administration
(start/stop/install etc.) but you could do the same with Base. If you
would only use Base you would have to install the Admin Console (an
EAR file) into each JVM you would like to manage (so each JVM would
host both adminconsole.ear and your app). It's certainly doable but
when having multiple JVMs (regardless if they are on a single machine
or on multiple machines) WAS v5 ND is usually the way to go.
If you would like to scale the solution by using clusters you would
need to use WAS v5 ND as that functionality is only in ND. Cluster can
be created either within a physical machine (vertical clustering)or
between physical machines (horisontal clustering) or both. Since you
already have multiple JVMs on each machine in your case it would make
most sense to scale horisontally to get fail-over capabilities as well
as increased capacity.
Deploying each app into its own JVM is fairly common and it gives you
some flexibility when configuring the app. You can e.g. set
environment variables, JVM heap sizes and other tuning parameters on
each application. However, since you have multiple JVMs you will need
more memory than if you deploy your apps into one or perhaps just a
few JVMs.
Henrik Sjöstrand
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