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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > January 2004 > Re: [mass bug filing] still depending on exim instead of exim4
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Re: [mass bug filing] still depending on exim instead of exim4
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| Daniel J. Priem 2004-01-27, 8:34 pm |
| Am Mit, 2004-01-14 um 11.23 schrieb Marc Haber:quote:
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:55:08 +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen
> <pere@hungry.com> wrote:
>
> Because exim 4 is not a drop-in replacement for exim 3. It uses a
> different configuration file format that cannot be converted in an
> easy way.
>
Why dont develop a script wich is converting the exim3conf to an usable
exim4config and haveing this in the postinstallscript?
or is exim4 so different that this is absolutely impossible?
Regards
Daniel
quote:
> Greetings
> Marc
>
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| Mathieu Roy 2004-01-27, 9:34 pm |
| "Daniel J. Priem" <devel@walki.homelinux.org> said:
quote:
> Am Mit, 2004-01-14 um 11.23 schrieb Marc Haber:
>
> Why dont develop a script wich is converting the exim3conf to an usable
> exim4config and haveing this in the postinstallscript?
> or is exim4 so different that this is absolutely impossible?
Hum, in my opinion:
- If you want to convert complex exim3 configurations, your script
will have to be a bit complex -- maybe very complex.
- If you want to convert trivial exim3 configurations, your
script will be ease to write but will probably not be more
interesting than simply running eximconfig to build a completely
new clean conffile.
In other words, I'm not sure it would help that much.
However, it remains unclear to me why these 50 packages have Depends
on exim3 instead of Depends on the virtual package
mail-transport-agent.
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Mathieu Roy
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| Andreas Barth 2004-01-27, 10:34 pm |
| * Daniel J. Priem (devel@walki.homelinux.org) [040128 10:10]:quote:
> Am Mit, 2004-01-14 um 11.23 schrieb Marc Haber:
[QUOTE][color=darkred]
> Why dont develop a script wich is converting the exim3conf to an usable
> exim4config and haveing this in the postinstallscript?
> or is exim4 so different that this is absolutely impossible?
Have you installed exim4? If so, you could quite easily see that exim4 does
(a) use the eximconfig as default values for debconf
(b) provides such a script, but with big warnings, as some cases are
not handled right.
You might want to read the files /usr/share/doc/exim4-base/README.Debian.gz
and /usr/share/doc/exim4-base/Exim4.upgrade.gz.
| Upgrading Exim from Release 3.33 to 4.xx
| ----------------------------------------
|
| Exim 4.00 represents the largest upheaval in Exim's history. There are a lot of
| changes to the way some parts of Exim work, and a lot of incompatible changes
| to the run time configuration file.
|
| This document is in two parts. The first part contains instructions and
| suggestions for how you might go about performing the upgrade. The second part
| is a brief list of all the changes that have taken place. For full details of
| all the new features, please consult the current version of the reference
| manual.
So, I think there's nothing more that the exim4 maintainer could do.
However, exim4 is just not a drop-in replacement for exim3.
Cheers,
Andi
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| Andreas Metzler 2004-01-27, 11:33 pm |
| Daniel J. Priem <devel@walki.homelinux.org> wrote:quote:
> Am Mit, 2004-01-14 um 11.23 schrieb Marc Haber:
[...]quote:
[QUOTE][color=darkred]
> Why dont develop a script wich is converting the exim3conf to an
> usable exim4config and haveing this in the postinstallscript? or is
> exim4 so different that this is absolutely impossible?
[...]
Whether it is "absolutely impossible" or not is not interesting at
all; the big question is whether it can be done with reasonable
expenditure and 100% reliability, and the answer to that seems to be
"No".
Exim's author has written a conversion script (installed as
exim_convert4r4) that is already quite involved but far from the
status of reliability required for _automatic_ conversion.
cu andreas
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| Wouter Verhelst 2004-01-27, 11:33 pm |
| On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 10:00:45AM +0100, Daniel J. Priem wrote:quote:
> Am Mit, 2004-01-14 um 11.23 schrieb Marc Haber:
>
> Why dont develop a script wich is converting the exim3conf to an usable
> exim4config and haveing this in the postinstallscript?
> or is exim4 so different that this is absolutely impossible?
Yes. A script to convert an exim3-style exim.conf files to the
exim4-style equivalent already exists, written by Philip Hazel, the
upstream author. In his own words: "It handles most cases, but of course
it's not AI, it's just perl!".
The problem is that exim's concepts have changed drastically in the
areas of delivery to local mailboxes (that's now handled the same way as
delivery to remote servers, which is a lot saner) and ACL's (an ACL
concept has been added, rather than a whole bunch of configuration
parameters, which also is a lot saner). The PERL script tries to map
variables to ACL rules and tries to map directors into routers in a
correct way, but that isn't always possible.
--
Wouter Verhelst
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Nederlandstalige Linux-documentatie -- http://nl.linux.org
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| |
| Andreas Metzler 2004-01-27, 11:33 pm |
| Mathieu Roy <yeupou@gnu.org> wrote:quote:
> "Daniel J. Priem" <devel@walki.homelinux.org> said:
[...][QUOTE][color=darkred]
> However, it remains unclear to me why these 50 packages have Depends
> on exim3 instead of Depends on the virtual package
> mail-transport-agent.
They do. But it is best current practice (I think because apt breaks
otherwise) to use
Depends: real-package-providing-virtual-package-foo | virtual-package-foo
instead of listing only the virtual package
Depends: virtual-package-foo
These packages have
Depends: exim | mail-transport-agent
cu andreas
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| Steve Greenland 2004-01-28, 3:35 am |
| On 28-Jan-04, 03:58 (CST), Mathieu Roy <yeupou@gnu.org> wrote:quote:
> However, it remains unclear to me why these 50 packages have Depends
> on exim3 instead of Depends on the virtual package
> mail-transport-agent.
Because Depending on a pure virtual pacakge results in (effectively)
random fulfillment of that dependency. To provide a default, you have
to specify an explicit package. Since our default MTA was exim, most
packages needed to have 'Depends: exim | mail-transport-agent'. If
anybody had known that Exim was going to change so much as to require a
renaming, we'd have been more clever about it in the beginning. I don't
suppose you have a time machine around anywhere?
Steve
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| Hamish Moffatt 2004-01-30, 12:34 pm |
| On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 11:23:35AM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:quote:
> They do. But it is best current practice (I think because apt breaks
> otherwise) to use
> Depends: real-package-providing-virtual-package-foo | virtual-package-foo
> instead of listing only the virtual package
> Depends: virtual-package-foo
(Ugh apt bug workaround :-()
quote:
> These packages have
> Depends: exim | mail-transport-agent
Unless you're intending to remove exim (3), why is the dep a problem?
Hamish
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| Andreas Metzler 2004-01-30, 7:33 pm |
| Hamish Moffatt <hamish@debian.org> wrote:quote:
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 11:23:35AM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:
[QUOTE][color=darkred]
> (Ugh apt bug workaround :-()
quote:
[QUOTE][color=darkred]
> Unless you're intending to remove exim (3), why is the dep a problem?
Because we do not want people to unintentionally install exim (3)
just because some dependency pulled it in. If apt encouters the
Depends quoted above it will install exim (if no other MTA is already
installed).
Exim 3 is dead. http://www.exim.org/version.html
cu andreas
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| Wouter Verhelst 2004-01-31, 2:34 am |
| On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 09:30:54AM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:quote:
> Hamish Moffatt <hamish@debian.org> wrote:
>
> Because we do not want people to unintentionally install exim (3)
> just because some dependency pulled it in. If apt encouters the
> Depends quoted above it will install exim (if no other MTA is already
> installed).
Exactly. And the part you've put between brackets there ("if no other
MTA is already installed") is so unlikely that it's a non-issue. The
default configuration comes with an MTA, so if you're ever going to
reach the point where you don't have an MTA installed, you most likely
know what you're doing.
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