|
Home > Archive > Debian Developers > March 2004 > Bizarre changelog entries in some gnome packages
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Bizarre changelog entries in some gnome packages
|
|
| Stephen Quinney 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
| I find changelog entries like those I am listing below to be very, very
unhelpful. They are truly bizarre. I do not want to have to piece
together changelog entries from loads of different packages to discover
some silly hidden message. Also, messages such as "GNOME suck" leave me
with the opinion that a package maintainer does not care for their
packages. (Maybe if I pieced together all the bits I would get the real
context and see the funny joke).
I was under the impression (maybe I am wrong) that changelog entries
should say what the maintainer has changed since the last upload. I read
changelogs before upgrading packages (with apt-listchanges) because I
want to know what has changed and if there are any big changes for which
I should be prepared.
These entries certainly do not give me the impression that the package
maintainer is taking things seriously. Someone looking at these package
changelogs who does not know Debian already may well be put off ever
bothering to use it in case all maintainers are like this. A bit more
professionalism would be nice.
Thank you,
Stephen Quinney
=== bizarre changelog entries ===
libwnck (2.4.0.1-3) unstable; urgency=low
* packages.
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:36:52
+0100
scrollkeeper (0.3.14-7) unstable; urgency=low
* This will
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:40:46
+0100
startup-notification (0.5-6) unstable; urgency=low
* certainly make
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:46:59
+0100
yelp (2.4.2-5) unstable; urgency=low
* some people happy.
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:48:55
+0100
libgnomecanvas (2.4.0-2) unstable; urgency=low
* more and
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:15:26
+0100
libgnomeui (2.4.0.1-8) unstable; urgency=low
* my GNOME
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:26:58
+0100
libart-lgpl (2.3.16-2) unstable; urgency=low
* I wrote.
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:06:24
+0100
libgnome (2.4.0-6) unstable; urgency=low
* GNOME suck
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:12:29
+0100
gnome-desktop (2.4.1-7) unstable; urgency=low
* Debian.changelog.gz in
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:36:08
+0100
gnome-panel (2.4.2-4) unstable; urgency=low
* the right
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:39:39
+0100
gnome-session (2.4.2-2) unstable; urgency=low
* order to
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:50:59
+0100
gnome-session (2.4.2-1) unstable; urgency=low
* New upstream release.
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:47:13
+0100
| |
| Number Six 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 03:03:30PM +0000, Stephen Quinney wrote:
> I find changelog entries like those I am listing below to be very, very
> unhelpful. They are truly bizarre. I do not want to have to piece
> together changelog entries from loads of different packages to discover
> some silly hidden message. Also, messages such as "GNOME suck" leave me
> with the opinion that a package maintainer does not care for their
> packages. (Maybe if I pieced together all the bits I would get the real
> context and see the funny joke).
Here are the message in the correct order:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-curi...3/msg00017.html
You can decide if they were funny (I didn't think it was over the line).
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Adrian Bunk 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 07:28:20AM -0800, Number Six wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 03:03:30PM +0000, Stephen Quinney wrote:
>
> Here are the message in the correct order:
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-curi...3/msg00017.html
>
> You can decide if they were funny (I didn't think it was over the line).
Debian isn't use only by hackers and Debian developers.
What will an average user who searches in a years for something in a
changelog file think about the quality of the software when he sees such
changelog entries?
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Number Six 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 04:37:56PM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
> What will an average user who searches in a years for something in a
> changelog file think about the quality of the software when he sees such
> changelog entries?
Will anything break if you retroactively alter the contents of the
changelog, especially if you leave version #s and release dates and
releasers the same?
My experience suggests -- "no." So just alter the comments in future
release.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Miros/law Baran 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
| 20.03.2004 pisze Adrian Bunk (bunk@fs.tum.de):
> What will an average user who searches in a years for something in a
> changelog file think about the quality of the software when he sees such
> changelog entries?
....nothing worse than it would think after reading the daily flamefest
on, let's take a worst-case example, debian-devel@l.d.o.?
Jubal
--
[ Miros/law L Baran, baran-at-knm-org-pl, neg IQ, cert AI ] [ 0101010 is ]
[ BOF2510053411, makabra.knm.org.pl/~baran/, alchemy pany ] [ The Answer ]
''There's a woman somewhere under all those identities but everything
I've experienced has been a hallucination.''
''There isn't a woman in the world, you couldn't say that about.''
(Illuminatus!, part three)
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Josip Rodin 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 04:37:56PM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
> What will an average user who searches in a years for something in a
> changelog file think about the quality of the software when he sees such
> changelog entries?
We have no way of knowing that, because quality of software generally
can't be directly correlated to the quality of package changelogs. 
Hopefully they won't think it's a secret codeword for "you must now kill
yourself", and that they won't take the nearest blunt object and smash it
against their forehead. But then, who knows? :p
--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Steve McIntyre 2004-03-20, 8:39 pm |
| Stephen Quinney wrote:
>
>These entries certainly do not give me the impression that the package
>maintainer is taking things seriously. Someone looking at these package
>changelogs who does not know Debian already may well be put off ever
>bothering to use it in case all maintainers are like this. A bit more
>professionalism would be nice.
As these messages together add up to Marillat orphaning all his GNOME
packages, the net result of this lot must be a good thing. The next
maintainer(s) can lose these changelog messages easily and then
(hopefully) go on to do a competent job in other ways.
--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com
Mature Sporty Personal
More Innovation More Adult
A Man in Dandism
Powered Midship Specialty
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Adrian Bunk 2004-03-21, 8:33 am |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 05:20:21PM +0100, Miros/law Baran wrote:
> 20.03.2004 pisze Adrian Bunk (bunk@fs.tum.de):
>
>
> ...nothing worse than it would think after reading the daily flamefest
> on, let's take a worst-case example, debian-devel@l.d.o.?
Thankfully, the Debian CDs don't contain archives of debian-devel. ;-)
> Jubal
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Martin Albert 2004-03-22, 10:35 am |
| On Sunday 21 March 2004 02:27, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> maintainer(s) can lose these changelog messages easily and then
I don't think that should happen. Rewriting history is considered bad
practice. Add changes on top that make better packages.
Have a nice day, martin
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Felipe Almeida Lessa 2004-03-22, 7:34 pm |
| Em Dom, 2004-03-21 ŕs 10:17, Adrian Bunk escreveu:
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 05:20:21PM +0100, Miros/law Baran wrote:
>
> Thankfully, the Debian CDs don't contain archives of debian-devel. ;-)
Bug#347092: ITP: debian-devel-archives -- Mail archives of debian-devel.
This package contains all the mails sent to the list
debian-devel@lists.debian.org from 1998 until now. It's useful to not
ask things already answered before and also to see how many megabytes
are wasted with discussions about apples and oranges.
How many mb (or gb) would this package have?
>
> cu
> Adrian
Just a bad joke people =P.
[]'s,
Felipe Almeida Lessa.
--
Felipe Almeida Lessa
felipe.lessa@brturbo.com
http://meteficha.cjb.net
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Branden Robinson 2004-03-23, 12:34 am |
| On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 03:48:54PM +0100, Martin Albert wrote:
> On Sunday 21 March 2004 02:27, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>
> I don't think that should happen. Rewriting history is considered bad
> practice. Add changes on top that make better packages.
It's not rewriting history if the changelog didn't document history in
the first place.
--
G. Branden Robinson | The noble soul has reverence for
Debian GNU/Linux | itself.
branden@debian.org | -- Friedrich Nietzsche
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |
| |
| Andreas Metzler 2004-03-23, 4:34 am |
| Felipe Almeida Lessa <felipe.lessa@brturbo.com> wrote:
> Em Dom, 2004-03-21 =E0s 10:17, Adrian Bunk escreveu:
[...]
[color=darkred]
> Bug#347092: ITP: debian-devel-archives -- Mail archives of debian-devel=
..
> This package contains all the mails sent to the list
> debian-devel@lists.debian.org from 1998 until now. It's useful to not
> ask things already answered before and also to see how many megabytes
> are wasted with discussions about apples and oranges.
> How many mb (or gb) would this package have?
[...]
July-1995 until today takes 600MB uncompressed and probably about 100MB
after running through gzip.
cu andreas
--=20
NMUs aren't an insult, they're not an attack, and they're
not something to avoid or be ashamed of.
Anthony Towns in 2004-02 on debian-devel
| |
| Mathieu Roy 2004-03-23, 10:35 am |
| Branden Robinson <branden@debian.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 03:48:54PM +0100, Martin Albert wrote:
>
> It's not rewriting history if the changelog didn't document history in
> the first place.
And on what basis do you decide what is history and what is not?
These malformed changelog entries are definitely a part of the
package's history.
--
Mathieu Roy
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| General Homepage: http://yeupou.coleumes.org/ |
| Computing Homepage: http://alberich.coleumes.org/ |
| Not a native english speaker: |
| http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i.../flawed-english |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Steve Greenland 2004-03-23, 10:35 am |
| On 23-Mar-04, 07:41 (CST), Mathieu Roy <yeupou@coleumes.org> wrote:
> Branden Robinson <branden@debian.org> wrote:
>
>
> And on what basis do you decide what is history and what is not?
On an individual basis, erroring towards conservation. It's a concept
called "using your judgement", which is not as highly regarded as it
once was.
> These malformed changelog entries are definitely a part of the
> package's history.
The changelogs are there to provide useful information to users and
maintainers. The entries under discussion are simply confusing and
pointless. They are preserved in the archives of debian-devel-changes
and (most usefully) debian-curiousa.
I fix spelling errors and other mistakes in changelogs. I don't see
a significant difference with these, and I don't see any value in
preserving a petulant outburst from a frustrated maintainer.
Steve
--
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world. -- seen on the net
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Matt Zimmerman 2004-03-23, 1:37 pm |
| On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 02:41:53PM +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> And on what basis do you decide what is history and what is not?
>
> These malformed changelog entries are definitely a part of the
> package's history.
They do not document any change to the package, except one(?) of the fragments
which mentions orphaning. The others are worthless.
--
- mdz
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Humberto Massa 2004-03-23, 2:36 pm |
| Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 02:41:53PM +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> They do not document any change to the package, except one(?) of
> the fragments which mentions orphaning. The others are worthless.
The entries themselves are changes to the packages, and document
history in a broader sense.
--
br,M
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Matt Zimmerman 2004-03-23, 2:36 pm |
| On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 03:42:33PM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman wrote:
>
>
> The entries themselves are changes to the packages
Oh yes, of course they are. And like any other changes to the package, they
can be edited if it improves the overall quality of the package. I do not
consider changelogs to be works of art, soapboxes, personal journals, or
sacred relics, and I certainly don't think that they're inappropriate to
change if the result is a more accurate history of the package.
This doesn't mean that I would modify the changelog for just any reason, but
if I forgot to mention something that changed, I would not hesitate to add
it to the entry for that version as a correction. If a maintainer fixes a
security vulnerability without a cross-reference, I encourage them to add
the CVE name to the corresponding changelog entry in a future upload.
>, and document history in a broader sense.
The line of text starting with " *" in this entry:
gnome-session (2.4.2-2) unstable; urgency=low
* order to
-- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:50:59
+0100
is content-free. The maintainer thinks it is a funny joke, but if the next
maintainer were to replace that entry with one which actually listed the
changes in version 2.4.2-2 of the package, I would support that change.
--
- mdz
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Ondřej Surý 2004-03-24, 5:34 am |
| On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 20:17, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 03:42:33PM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote:
> The line of text starting with " *" in this entry:
>
> gnome-session (2.4.2-2) unstable; urgency=low
>
> * order to
>
> -- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:50:59
> +0100
>
> is content-free. The maintainer thinks it is a funny joke, but if the next
> maintainer were to replace that entry with one which actually listed the
> changes in version 2.4.2-2 of the package, I would support that change.
Well, to stop this useless discusion... I have replaces all that junk
in changelogs in packages I adopted to:
* Orphaned package.
And I encourage other adopters to do same. It makes no sense to have
junk in changelogs and you could always find it in debian-curioso, where
it really belongs.
--
Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org>
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Branden Robinson 2004-03-25, 1:34 am |
| On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 02:41:53PM +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> Branden Robinson <branden@debian.org> wrote:
>
>
> And on what basis do you decide what is history and what is not?
That which changed in the package (outside the changelog itself) is
history for the purpose of a changelog.
Everything else isn't.
> These malformed changelog entries are definitely a part of the
> package's history.
All they need to say is "Orphaned package.". The rest is just confusing
noise.
--
G. Branden Robinson |
Debian GNU/Linux | Ab abusu ad usum non valet
branden@debian.org | consequentia.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |
| |
| Branden Robinson 2004-03-25, 1:34 am |
| On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 08:29:18AM -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
> I fix spelling errors and other mistakes in changelogs. I don't see
> a significant difference with these, and I don't see any value in
> preserving a petulant outburst from a frustrated maintainer.
Seconded.
--
G. Branden Robinson | That's the saving grace of humor:
Debian GNU/Linux | if you fail, no one is laughing at
branden@debian.org | you.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- A. Whitney Brown
|
|
|
|
|