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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > March 2004 > If it's that easy! :-) (Novell and YaST vs. Debian)
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If it's that easy! :-) (Novell and YaST vs. Debian)
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| Isaac Clerencia 2004-03-20, 2:35 pm |
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| Neil McGovern 2004-03-20, 8:31 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 06:27:55PM +0000, W. Borgert wrote:
> Hopefully nobody ITPs YaST, now that it's GPLed...
"comments in config files? I'll remove those. That sounds like a plan"
"oh, the users installed their own version of php. right. So they
obviously want php. I'll install my own version over the top"
"User configured their MTA config? XXXX that. They want mine."
YaST. Isn't it great? 
Neil
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Q. Why is top posting bad?
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| Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña 2004-03-20, 8:31 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 01:30:50PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
>
> Too late:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/238969
Which is not necessarily a bad idea, if it has bugs (or does not fit
Debian) it will not be used, if it has no bugs and it suits Debian fine it
will be used by many users.
Regards
Javi
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| Jaldhar H. Vyas 2004-03-20, 8:39 pm |
| On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, W. Borgert wrote:
> One month old, but still funny:
> http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions...forums_nls.html
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> Hopefully nobody ITPs YaST, now that it's GPLed...
>
Whoops too late :-)
Well hopefully I can whip it into good enough shape to meet Debian
standards. We'll see.
--
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@debian.org>
La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/
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| Matthew Palmer 2004-03-20, 8:39 pm |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 06:27:55PM +0000, W. Borgert wrote:
> One month old, but still funny:
> http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions...forums_nls.html
That is seriously funny. I thought the MS KB article "how to switch from
Linux to Windows" was more informative...
> Hopefully nobody ITPs YaST, now that it's GPLed...
Is there a config option in /etc/apt/preferences that will make sure that a
certain package name can *never* be installed on a system, regardless of
what dependencies it might break? That pin would go onto *any* system I've
got write access to /etc/apt/preferences on...
- Matt
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| jan.palic@linux-debian.de 2004-03-21, 8:33 am |
| On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 06:27:55PM +0000, W. Borgert wrote:
>One month old, but still funny:
>http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions...forums_nls.html
>
>Hopefully nobody ITPs YaST, now that it's GPLed...
But why? You can decide yourself to use it or not. There are much
people, which like tools like that. If it is good and works on and with
debian, it will be a good idea?
Regards
Jan
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| W. Borgert 2004-03-21, 10:34 am |
| Despite having said "Hopefully nobody ITPs YaST", I wish you
the best success with making YaST a useful addition to
Debian. I know, that webmin has some problems as well, but
AFAIK webmin is at least better than YaST.
Cheers,
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W. Borgert <debacle@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~debacle/
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| Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder 2004-03-22, 8:35 am |
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| Jan-Hendrik Palic 2004-03-22, 10:35 am |
| Hi ..
On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 02:12:56PM +0100, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote:[color=darkred]
Why ... is there any good for avoiding Yast in debian?
First, I think, there are some people using debian, which want to use
yast for configuring their systems. In my opinion, webmin is not a
really alternative as configuration utility at all.
And second, nobody said, that you must use yast, if it included in
debian.
In my opinion, yast should included as configuration utility, but as
installer for the whole system.
Regards
Jan
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| Martin Albert 2004-03-22, 11:35 am |
| > >> > Hopefully nobody ITPs YaST, now that it's GPLed...
>
> Why ... is there any good for avoiding Yast in debian?
> First, I think, there are some people using debian, which want to use
> yast for configuring their systems. In my opinion, webmin is not a
> really alternative as configuration utility at all.
>
> In my opinion, yast should included as configuration utility, but as
> installer for the whole system.
Wow, there must be two programs under the same name out there.
Giving courses to people that had about 2-3 month of experience with the
system that i know yast of, i started with "Install and config a
webserver to serve your $HOME/public_html dir". Installing Debian
_while_ saying this, i then typed "apt-get install apache" and had a
coffee break. Returning, 1 system out of 25 had it done. After 3 months
the final exam "client/server w. eth-bridge and samba (and lots more)"
was carried out 100% Debian, except some clients (better kde@that_time).
Discussing yast and 'improving user experience' in parallel threads
seems contradictory to me, but then, as you wrote, you don't have to
use it. I mean, i'm not objecting ITP, in case it is found to be of use
for anything except getting #1000000 out.
Have a nice day, martin
(wading through webmin, that does not correctly offer existing configs;)
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| David Weinehall 2004-03-22, 4:34 pm |
| On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 05:02:00PM +0100, Martin Albert wrote:
>
> Wow, there must be two programs under the same name out there.
>
> Giving courses to people that had about 2-3 month of experience with the
> system that i know yast of, i started with "Install and config a
> webserver to serve your $HOME/public_html dir". Installing Debian
> _while_ saying this, i then typed "apt-get install apache" and had a
> coffee break. Returning, 1 system out of 25 had it done. After 3 months
> the final exam "client/server w. eth-bridge and samba (and lots more)"
> was carried out 100% Debian, except some clients (better kde@that_time).
>
> Discussing yast and 'improving user experience' in parallel threads
> seems contradictory to me, but then, as you wrote, you don't have to
> use it. I mean, i'm not objecting ITP, in case it is found to be of use
> for anything except getting #1000000 out.
Au contraire. YaST and 'improving user experience' are definitely
parallel; they do not meet at any point, neither in past, present, or
future... =)
[snip]
Regards: David Weinehall
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| Jaldhar H. Vyas 2004-03-22, 4:34 pm |
| On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Martin Albert wrote:
> (wading through webmin, that does not correctly offer existing configs;)
>
????
If that's the case I'd like to know about it.
--
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@debian.org>
La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/
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| Scott James Remnant 2004-03-22, 5:34 pm |
| On Mon, 2004-03-22 at 13:12, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote:
> On Sunday 21 March 2004 02.01, Matthew Palmer wrote:
>
>
> I'd just hard-code that into dpkg directly. Nobody wants YaST (back).
>
dpkg isn't just used by Debian.
Scott
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| Matthew Palmer 2004-03-22, 7:34 pm |
| On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 04:23:11PM +0100, Jan-Hendrik Palic wrote:
> Hi ..
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 02:12:56PM +0100, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote:
>
> Why ... is there any good for avoiding Yast in debian?
Not "YaST in Debian" just "YaST in any system that I might at some stage
have to work on". It's track record of maintaining user changes to config
files and such is abysmal - THE number one reason I avoid SuSE in all it's
forms. What I want to avoid is creating a machine, lovingly set it up
exactly how it needs to be, then have some yahoo say "hey, this YaST thing
will help me out" and demolish the work I've done.
And yes, I'm aware there are other ways to solve the problem, but there's a
finite supply of quicklime out there...
- Matt
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| Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder 2004-03-23, 5:34 am |
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| Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder 2004-03-23, 5:34 am |
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| jan.palic@linux-debian.de 2004-03-23, 8:36 am |
| Hi ..
On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 10:16:52AM +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote:
>Not "YaST in Debian" just "YaST in any system that I might at some stage
>have to work on". It's track record of maintaining user changes to config
>files and such is abysmal - THE number one reason I avoid SuSE in all it's
>forms. What I want to avoid is creating a machine, lovingly set it up
>exactly how it needs to be, then have some yahoo say "hey, this YaST thing
>will help me out" and demolish the work I've done.
Hmm, me is not using yast at all since I am using Debian. But I saw the
recent yast on SuSE 9.0 and I think, for poeple who do not want to
think much about configurations of their systems should yast be a good
utility. Yast is a nice gui too.
And when there some Debian-People working on a good desktop solution for
debian, I think, a tool like yast might a great addition for the projekt
to provide a gui for configuration the whole system.
When there are some people using only a gui and not a console at all, a
configuration gui might made their live with the system much easier.
You keep to be able for configuring your debian with text-editors on the
console, and _this_ is important, in my eyes. Yast is able to detect
each, manually edited configuration file, so it should (I do not know,
whether it works) not overwrite the settings.
Regards
Jan
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