|
Home > Archive > Debian Developers > March 2004 > Re: Bug#239952: kernel-source-2.6.4: qla2xxx contains non-free firmware
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Re: Bug#239952: kernel-source-2.6.4: qla2xxx contains non-free firmware
|
|
| John Hasler 2004-03-25, 6:42 pm |
| Don Armstrong writes:
> I'm not sure at all what the firmware being a RTOS has to do with it's
> distributability.
The hardware vendor may have licensed the RTOS from a company which is in
the RTOS business and is therefor very unlikely to free the source.
This is likely to be a continuing problem: licensing "IP" under _extremely_
restrictive conditions is routine in the hardware business.
--
John Hasler You may treat this work as if it
john@dhh.gt.org were in the public domain.
Dancing Horse Hill I waive all rights.
Elmwood, Wisconsin
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Evan Prodromou 2004-03-26, 1:43 pm |
| >>>>> "AB" == Adrian Bunk <bunk@fs.tum.de> writes:
AB> I still don't get the point why it is OK to say "this file is
AB> covered by the GPL" when all it contains is compiled binary
AB> code.
Because it might not be compiled. It might be the actual original
source.
~ESP
--
Evan Prodromou
evan@debian.org
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| John Hasler 2004-03-26, 3:35 pm |
| Nathanael Nerode writes:
> For these so-called "GPLed" binaries, we should ask the copyright holders
> if they were *really* written as binary blobs. If they say "yes", let's
> believe them. If they say "no", then the binaries are undistributable.
Unless they grant explicit permission. Then they would be distributable
but still non-DFSG.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| John Hasler 2004-03-26, 4:35 pm |
| Nathanael Nerode writes:
> (2) drivers/firmware released only "under the GPL" as binary blobs, where
> the copyright holders have secret source code hidden away somewhere.
> These cannot legally be distributed, at all, because the terms of the GPL
> cannot be satisfied.
Repeating myself because I think it is an important point: these _can_ be
distributed if the copyright owners give explicit permission.
However, they are not GPL-compatible (nor DFSG compliant).
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Evan Prodromou 2004-03-26, 6:35 pm |
| >>>>> "MG" == Matthew Garrett <mgarrett@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
MG> In the case in question, we're talking about over 300K of hex
MG> per device. Do you really believe that someone wrote that by
MG> hand?
I dunno. I have no idea. Maybe, instead of conjecturing, we could ask
the copyright holder instead?
~ESP
--
Evan Prodromou
evan@debian.org
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| John Hasler 2004-03-26, 9:37 pm |
| Nathanael Nerode writes:
> For these so-called "GPLed" binaries, we should ask the copyright holders
> if they were *really* written as binary blobs. If they say "yes", let's
> believe them. If they say "no", then the binaries are undistributable.
I wrote:
> Unless they grant explicit permission. Then they would be distributable
> but still non-DFSG.
Herbert Xu writes:
> Huh? Please show me where the DFSG prohibits people from writing binary
> blobs.
I said no such thing. I was responding to Nathanael's last sentence above
where he refers to GPL'd binaries that were _not_ written as binaries.
If you write something in C, compile it to binary, and distribute it under
the GPL with an explicit permission to redistribute[1] despite the absence
of source then it is distributable. However, it is non-DFSG due to the
absence of source.
If you write something directly in binary and distribute it under the GPL
it is both distributable and DFSG-compliant.
[1] Thomas Hood pointed out that the act of distributing the blob under the
GPL could be construed as implicit permission to redistribute.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Mathieu Roy 2004-03-27, 5:33 am |
| Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> wrote:
> On Mar 27, Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
> Why are you surprised? No other distribution is bothered by this.
Hum, is what other distributions do, or pay attention to, what
matters? Debian does many things that others distributions don't.
--
Mathieu Roy
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| General Homepage: http://yeupou.coleumes.org/ |
| Computing Homepage: http://alberich.coleumes.org/ |
| Not a native english speaker: |
| http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i.../flawed-english |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Tollef Fog Heen 2004-03-27, 10:33 am |
| * Andrew Suffield
| There is no shortage of "modern" hardware without these problems.
For some classses of hardware, there is. I challenge you to find a
ADSL card which supports Annex.B and has free drivers. In fact, if
you find me one of those (and it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg),
I'll buy you a case of beer.
--
Tollef Fog Heen ,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' :
`. `'
`-
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Daniel Martin 2004-03-29, 12:34 am |
| Nathanael Nerode <neroden@twcny.rr.com> writes:
> (3) (This case apparently hasn't actually happened.) Drivers/firmware
> released under a DFSG-free license which *doesn't* require source
> distribution -- without source.
> These can go in "non-free"; the absence of source means they aren't
> DFSG-free, I think.
Are you sure this hasn't happened? What about "GPL, but unmodified
binary distribution is also allowed", which is, AIUI, what many
hardware manufacturers have released their stuff as.
It's still not DFSG-free, of course.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| Daniel Martin 2004-03-29, 12:35 am |
| John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> writes:
> Nathanael Nerode writes:
>
> Repeating myself because I think it is an important point: these _can_ be
> distributed if the copyright owners give explicit permission.
>
> However, they are not GPL-compatible (nor DFSG compliant).
Well, in the sense that you can take any of the pieces to which you do
have source out and use it in any GPL manner you desire, those bits
are GPL-compatible.
But yes, the whole is not DFSG-free. As such, I really think this
falls into Nathaneal's category (3).
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
| |
| John Hasler 2004-03-29, 11:35 am |
| Hamish writes:
> Clearly the hex dump isn't the preferred form of modification, but
> clearly Intel intends us to be able to distribute kernel images
> containing that firmware.... So where does that leave us?
Wondering if the other kernel authors agree with Intel, and whether
microcode is software.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
|
|
|
|
|