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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > April 2004 > Bug#242419: general: need for a webbased BTS
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Bug#242419: general: need for a webbased BTS
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| Jesus Climent 2004-04-06, 4:38 pm |
| On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 09:08:16PM +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote:
>
> And back to one of my original points: if an average user can't set up
> his network, including mailing, and/or can't use an editor, I don't want
> him to report bugs. Period. He should learn to handle his computer
> better first, or ask a more advanced user to report a bug for him.
Dude, then you are an arrogant elitist.
Setting a web page where a user could, with some php/python/whatever code in
the background, put a sensible bug report for whichever tool he is using and
report it using simple, guided steps, is not a bad thing.
You cannot expect all users to learn everything to report a bug. Putting such
barriers to users just endangers us to learn the user needs, and blinds our
eyes from focusing on their needs.
The social contract states that we are to help our users, not to expect them
to learn some (for you and me basic) steps to report a problem they are
having.
Feel free to close such bugs if they are use- or senseless.
J.
PS: I had a user who could not understand that an openoffice file could fit on
a diskette, feeling that I was talking about installing the whole in the
diskette. However she was completelly capable of following simple and clear
steps to fill in a bug report using bugzilla, once the interface was modified
to request a simple, single piece of information at a time.
--
Jesus Climent info:www.pumuki.org
Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.4.25|Helsinki Finland
GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69
London. You know... fish, chips, cup o' tea, bad food, worse weather,
Mary-XXXXing-Poppins... London!
--Avi (Snatch)
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| Frank Küster 2004-04-07, 6:41 am |
| Chris Cheney <ccheney@debian.org> wrote:
> I tried setting up exim4 correctly a few months back so that I could
> send email to other people on my same ISP. I could not get it to work no
> matter what I tried,=20
exim4 wasn't part of stable back then, was it? "A few months back" could
even mean that it was from experimental, IIRC.
Regards, Frank
--=20
Frank K=FCster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie
| |
| Frank Küster 2004-04-07, 2:46 pm |
| Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> wrote:
>
> If he is able to communicate via e-mail, there must be an MTA
> *somewhere* which has been set up and is working. Why can't he use
> that to submit his bug report?
If he exclusively uses some web-based mail system and doesn't even know
what a mail program is (or he knows one, Outlook Express, but has been
told that it's bad), then he can't use this easily to report a bug. And
I wouldn't call these fields where you can type in the mail text "an
editor", in there nothing works but the letter and cursor keys. And no
menus, also.
Regards, Frank
--=20
Frank K=FCster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie
| |
| Chris Cheney 2004-04-07, 3:37 pm |
| On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 11:27:16AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> Chris Cheney <ccheney@debian.org> wrote:
>
>
> exim4 wasn't part of stable back then, was it? "A few months back" could
> even mean that it was from experimental, IIRC.
I don't run stable, as mentioned in another thread my past 6 machines
have been too new to even install it.[0] I guess you could say new users
should not be installing testing or unstable but then what are they
going to install if their system isn't several years old. Note b-f
kernels are not updated so if your system doesn't work with the original
kernel from over 2 years ago you are out of luck.
exim4 has been in the archive since mid 2002 according to the changelogs
in testing/unstable, which was shortly after the woody release, Also,
exim4 will be the default MTA for the sarge release. I checked to see if
the problem I had still existed last night which it did, but I was able
to get the exim4 maintainers to understand the issue with some help from
Andreas and they plan to fix the problem soon.
Chris
[0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-deve...3/msg02184.html
| |
| Henning Makholm 2004-04-07, 4:37 pm |
| Scripsit Frank Küster <frank@debian.org>
> Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> wrote:
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> If he exclusively uses some web-based mail system and doesn't even know
> what a mail program is (or he knows one, Outlook Express, but has been
> told that it's bad), then he can't use this easily to report a bug.
Why not?
> And I wouldn't call these fields where you can type in the mail text
> "an editor", in there nothing works but the letter and cursor keys.
What is your definition of an editor?
--
Henning Makholm "I didn't even know you *could* kill chocolate ice-cream!"
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| Frank Küster 2004-04-08, 5:40 am |
| Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> schrieb:
> Scripsit Frank K=FCster <frank@debian.org>
>
>
>
>
> Why not?
Because he has to copy the contents of the editor window of reportbug
into the editing space of the webmailer, which will probably totally
mess up line endings etc. This is of course possible, but not
easy. Especially since many newbies don't know what the middle button
will do in XFree. They look for the equivalent of the Windows
"Clipboard" and can't find it.
>
> What is your definition of an editor?
A program to edit files. This includes, at least, the possiblity to open
and save files - which is not possible in a webmailer (perhaps one can
save stuff like "mail templates", but not a file on one's computer)
Regards, Frank
--=20
Frank K=FCster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie
| |
| Henning Makholm 2004-04-08, 8:34 am |
| Scripsit Frank Küster <frank@debian.org>
> Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> schrieb:
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> Because he has to copy the contents of the editor window of reportbug
> into the editing space of the webmailer,
No so. It is entirely possible to compose a bug report in a web-based
mail system from scratch, without copying anything from reportbug.
--
Henning Makholm "The practical reason for continuing our
system is the same as the practical reason
for continuing anything: It works satisfactorily."
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| Frank Küster 2004-04-08, 10:35 am |
| Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> schrieb:
> Scripsit Frank K=FCster <frank@debian.org>
>
ow[color=darkred]
>
>
>
> No so. It is entirely possible to compose a bug report in a web-based
> mail system from scratch, without copying anything from reportbug.
Of course, but then the important bits (version, dependencies, debconf
stuff) is either missing or has to be filled in by hand. This isn't what
I call "easily".
Regards, Frank
--=20
Frank K=FCster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie
| |
| Henning Makholm 2004-04-11, 3:13 pm |
| Scripsit Frank Küster <frank@debian.org>
> Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> schrieb:
[color=darkred]
> Of course, but then the important bits (version, dependencies, debconf
> stuff) is either missing or has to be filled in by hand.
It will be missing and need to be filled in by hand in a specialized
web-based interface to the BTS, too.
--
Henning Makholm "Det er du nok fandens ene om at
mene. For det ligger i Australien!"
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| Frank Küster 2004-04-11, 3:13 pm |
| Henning Makholm <henning@makholm.net> wrote:
> Scripsit Frank K=FCster <frank@debian.org>
>
>
>
> It will be missing and need to be filled in by hand in a specialized
> web-based interface to the BTS, too.
Of course - but with detailed instructions what to do next.
Well, I'm happy with reportbug as it is, and can live with occasional
"can't install" reports coming to a package maintainer through somebody
else, who found the problem because the not-submitter asked in a mailing
list or usenet group.
I'm equally happy if somebody writes a _good_ web interface. As long as
I'm not required to use it, I don't even object if it requires an
account.=20
Regards, Frank
--=20
Frank K=FCster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie
| |
| Marc Haber 2004-04-11, 3:13 pm |
| On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:21:25 -0500, Chris Cheney <ccheney@debian.org>
wrote:
>exim4 has been in the archive since mid 2002 according to the changelogs
>in testing/unstable, which was shortly after the woody release,
NACK, the exim4 packages came around in 2003. They have been in
preparation since mid 2002, though.
Greetings
Marc
--=20
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! =
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| |
| Hilko Bengen 2004-04-11, 3:13 pm |
| Frank K=FCster <frank@debian.org> writes:
>
> Of course, but then the important bits (version, dependencies,
> debconf stuff) is either missing or has to be filled in by hand.=20
> This isn't what I call "easily".
Solution: Provide a tool as part of the reportbug package that
collects this information and dumps it to stdout. Provide instructions
in the web frontend what to type at the prompt and have user paste it
into the form.
-Hilko
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