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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > September 2004 > Fresh installation: Keymap broken under X
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Fresh installation: Keymap broken under X
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| Andreas Tille 2004-08-25, 6:02 pm |
| Hello,
I installed a new Laptop with the daily build Sarge CDs from 24.8.2004 and
I was very impressed. X worked fine (including 3D), sound was OK. It was
a really big difference to my latest Laptop install. Kudos to all the
installer people!!
On the other hand one boring problem remained which is not really Debian
installer related but people will face it after installation and upgrade to
latest Sarge I decided to post it to debian-devel instead of filing
a bug against installer: The keymap just vanished and you have an English keyboard
under X. Strangely enough the (in my case) German keyboard works on console.
I tried:
# dpkg-reconfigure console-common
Looking for keymap to install:
NONE
null symbol found
null symbol found
null symbol found
When I asked Google I only found a German page (well - English speaking people
do surely not have this problem):
http://www.debianforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28377
They faced the same problem but not after a fresh install but after an upgrade.
The final solution there was:
1. dpkg-reconfigure locales
-> was fine
2. dpkg-reconfigure console-data
-> helped to solve the problem described above
3. dpkg-reconfigure console-common
sounded promissing with
Looking for keymap to install:
de-latin1-nodeadkeys
Loading /etc/console/boottime.kmap.gz
... as I said - the keymap is fine at console ...
4. dpkg-reconfigure console-tools
5. login again
This leaded to the final result for the people who discussed the problem - but
not for me. So the question is: What caused the removal of the keymap and
how to solve this cleanly.
Kind regards
Andreas.
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| Christian Perrier 2004-08-25, 6:02 pm |
|
> On the other hand one boring problem remained which is not really Debian
> installer related but people will face it after installation and upgrade to
> latest Sarge I decided to post it to debian-devel instead of filing
> a bug against installer: The keymap just vanished and you have an English
> keyboard
> under X. Strangely enough the (in my case) German keyboard works on
> console.
Debian Installer currently does not configure the keyboard for X
X debconf templates ask for this but at medium priority....which means
that users installing at default priority will miss the question.
This leads to what you found and which is a very well known (by both
D-I team and X team) problem.
A solution lies in Konstantinos localization-config package which
could preseed X debconf entries based on the locale. See threads about
this in -boot or -i18n
However, this (forcing localization-config to be installed and run)
would require changes to base-config, which is currently frozen. I
guess the D-I team will discuss this very soon. This is a somewhat
risky change at a time we're very close to have a stable installer.
But, we will both agree that the behaviour you got will be confusing
to all users with non US keyboards.....:-(
The things you tried with locales and console-data cannot solve
this. Keyboard handling with the console and with X are completely
different things....
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| Laszlo 'GCS' Boszormenyi 2004-08-25, 6:02 pm |
| * Andreas Tille <tillea@rki.de> [2004-08-25 15:06:18 +0200]:
> The keymap just vanished and you have an English
> keyboard
> under X. Strangely enough the (in my case) German keyboard works on
> console.
It is an XFree86 packaging problem. I should have already file a bug
report against it. At least the same true for hungarian keyboard
settings as well. On console I can switch and use en_US/hu_HU maybe
others as well, but I need only this two only. When comes to X, I can
use en_US, but not hu_HU. I have found out that the keyboard
configuration files are not placed correctly. When I have moved the
hu_HU* (they may named differently, it was a longer time ago) files to a
dir deeper where others are reside, I could use hu_HU under XFree86 as
well. Hit the same problem again as I have just reinstalled the box.
Will look up the possible solutions, and if I find out that it is really
a packaging problem, I will file a bugreport. :-|
Regards,
Laszlo/GCS
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| Andreas Tille 2004-08-25, 6:02 pm |
| On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Debian Installer currently does not configure the keyboard for X
Yes, that's why I did not filed a bug against this package.
> X debconf templates ask for this but at medium priority....which means
> that users installing at default priority will miss the question.
Well, this is what I tried to verify the install process.
> A solution lies in Konstantinos localization-config package which
> could preseed X debconf entries based on the locale. See threads about
> this in -boot or -i18n
I tested this package but it did not changed anything. I tried
update-locale-config de_DE@euro
and dpkg-reconfigured xserver-xfree86 but the created config file
did not change at all (and nothing else).
> But, we will both agree that the behaviour you got will be confusing
> to all users with non US keyboards.....:-(
.... which makes this problem release critical, IMHO.
> The things you tried with locales and console-data cannot solve
> this. Keyboard handling with the console and with X are completely
> different things....
This is what I thought - but the URL I mentioned proposed to do so
and it helped other people (perhaps caused by some correlation to
other problems).
Kind regards
Andreas.
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| Josselin Mouette 2004-08-25, 6:02 pm |
| Le mercredi 25 août 2004 Ã_ 17:06 +0200, Christian Perrier a écrit :
> Debian Installer currently does not configure the keyboard for X
>
> X debconf templates ask for this but at medium priority....which means
> that users installing at default priority will miss the question.
>
> This leads to what you found and which is a very well known (by both
> D-I team and X team) problem.
>
> A solution lies in Konstantinos localization-config package which
> could preseed X debconf entries based on the locale. See threads about
> this in -boot or -i18n
>
> However, this (forcing localization-config to be installed and run)
> would require changes to base-config, which is currently frozen. I
> guess the D-I team will discuss this very soon. This is a somewhat
> risky change at a time we're very close to have a stable installer.
>
> But, we will both agree that the behaviour you got will be confusing
> to all users with non US keyboards.....:-(
Confuse? This renders the system almost unusable until you fix it by
hand. When we have an installer which has become quite usable by non-
techies, such a bug is a giant leap backwards.
If you can't modify base-config, please at least make the question
priority: high. It is strange to be asked twice about the same thing,
but it is much better than not having it working at all.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette /\./\
: :' : josselin.mouette@ens-lyon.org
`. `' joss@debian.org
`- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom
| |
| Christian Perrier 2004-08-27, 6:25 pm |
| (Joeyh, Kostas, Branden keyboard issues with X when using non-US
keyboard...see -devel and bugs 238778 239827 242321 242605)
> Confuse? This renders the system almost unusable until you fix it by
> hand. When we have an installer which has become quite usable by non-
> techies, such a bug is a giant leap backwards.
Well, don't try convincing me...rather convince the X team to raise
the priority of the keyboard question (that's a possibility)...or the
D-i team to make an exception and use localization-config though it is
a very recent package.
Plans for synchronizing keyboard settings for X and console are
post-sarge...so only workarounds are possible for sarge:
-localization-config installed for all non-US installs
-X keyboard config question priority raised
BTW, I'm not completely sure this is a backward leap_: I don't
remember whether a scratch woody install with X in frnech with a
french keyboard ends up with a french X keyboard....
Both possible solutions have strong potential drawbacks_: such drastic
last minute change are obvioulsy risky...
(the debconf priority is not a drastic change...but that would mean a
new upload of the X packages which is certainly not trivial)
A few translators have raised this problem for a while but we probably
didn't make enough noise about it. Most are also culprit because using
US keyboard : using local keyboard is not geeky enough...:-) (french
ppl are very good at this)
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| Christian Perrier 2004-08-27, 6:25 pm |
| Quoting Laszlo 'GCS' Boszormenyi (gcs@lsc.hu):
> It is an XFree86 packaging problem. I should have already file a bug
> report against it. At least the same true for hungarian keyboard
Don't file a BR... There are enough already for this..:-)
Maybe ask for raising the priority of #238778 to RC....
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| Kenshi Muto 2004-08-27, 6:25 pm |
| At Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:37:04 +0200,
Christian Perrier wrote:
> Well, don't try convincing me...rather convince the X team to raise
> the priority of the keyboard question (that's a possibility)...or the
> D-i team to make an exception and use localization-config though it is
> a very recent package.
>=20
> Plans for synchronizing keyboard settings for X and console are
> post-sarge...so only workarounds are possible for sarge:
>=20
> -localization-config installed for all non-US installs
> -X keyboard config question priority raised
=46rom my experience, localization-config hasn't solved preseeding
problem yet. It means user needs:
1. install xserver-xfree86
2. answer X debconf
3. run localization-config (value is changed, but XF86Config-4 isn't
updated)
4. run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
5. answer X debconf again (although we can choice noninteractive mode
by hand)
> BTW, I'm not completely sure this is a backward leap=A0: I don't
> remember whether a scratch woody install with X in frnech with a
> french keyboard ends up with a french X keyboard....
>=20
> Both possible solutions have strong potential drawbacks=A0: such drastic
> last minute change are obvioulsy risky...
I like that xserver-xfree86 provides current keyboard configuration at
priority 'high' for Sarge. User needs to input their kbd name
manually, but it is better than current poor status.
Keyboard mapping of console and X should be solved in the future,
but I don't believe it can be solved easily in time for Sarge release.
Thanks,
--=20
Kenshi Muto
kmuto@debian.org
| |
| Andreas Tille 2004-08-27, 6:25 pm |
| On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Kenshi Muto wrote:
> From my experience, localization-config hasn't solved preseeding
> problem yet. It means user needs:
>
> 1. install xserver-xfree86
> 2. answer X debconf
> 3. run localization-config (value is changed, but XF86Config-4 isn't
> updated)
> 4. run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> 5. answer X debconf again (although we can choice noninteractive mode
> by hand)
This resulted in exactly the same XF86Config-4 in my case, that
means - it helped nothing.
One more information: I have a German keyboard for the login
('-' character at the right place, German Umlauts etc work in
the login window), but if the user logs in the keyboard is
reset to en. This smells not like a broken XF86Config-4.
I was "nearly" able to fix it for the user by doing
setxkbmap de -print | xkbcomp - $DISPLAY 2> /dev/null
The "nearly" means that I have trouble with the '>' key (at German
keyboard between shift and 'y'. This just does not work in this
way.
Kind regards
Andreas.
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| Laszlo 'GCS' Boszormenyi 2004-09-22, 9:17 pm |
| * Christian Perrier <bubulle@debian.org> [2004-08-26 08:38:20 +0200]:
> Quoting Laszlo 'GCS' Boszormenyi (gcs@lsc.hu):
>
>
> Don't file a BR... There are enough already for this..:-)
>
> Maybe ask for raising the priority of #238778 to RC....
Well, reading #238778 does not help, I think we talk about two
different bugs. I can not use hungarian layout on my keyboard because
/etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/ does not list any hu* files. Copying them from
/etc/X11/xkb/symbols/ fixes my problem immediately. Is this bug known
for you packagers (also, reading the rather long changelogs, is it
changed in 4.3.0.dfsg.1-7)?
Regards,
Laszlo/GCS
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| Branden Robinson 2004-09-28, 5:57 pm |
| [Adding -boot and -x to CC list. Sorry for the crossposting. Perhaps this
can move away from -devel.]
On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 08:37:04AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> (Joeyh, Kostas, Branden keyboard issues with X when using non-US
> keyboard...see -devel and bugs 238778 239827 242321 242605)
>
>
> Well, don't try convincing me...rather convince the X team to raise
> the priority of the keyboard question (that's a possibility)...
[...]
> Plans for synchronizing keyboard settings for X and console are
> post-sarge...so only workarounds are possible for sarge:
>
> -localization-config installed for all non-US installs
> -X keyboard config question priority raised
It wouldn't just need its priority raised; it needs to attempt to calculate
a reasonable default based on the value of the debian-installer/keymap
debconf template.
Theroetically, if that template has a defined answer and the mapping logic
is good enough, the priority of the XKB layout question could remain at
medium ("items which have a reasonable default").
> BTW, I'm not completely sure this is a backward leap_: I don't
> remember whether a scratch woody install with X in frnech with a
> french keyboard ends up with a french X keyboard....
It doesn't. It defaults to "us" all the time.
> (the debconf priority is not a drastic change...but that would mean a
> new upload of the X packages which is certainly not trivial)
Eh, well, we've been having to upload it anyway for other reasons.
> A few translators have raised this problem for a while but we probably
> didn't make enough noise about it. Most are also culprit because using
> US keyboard : using local keyboard is not geeky enough...:-) (french
> ppl are very good at this)
This issue is on the TODO list for the debconf-overhaul branch in XSF
XFree86 SVN[1], so I'm going to be working on it soon.
I still don't know how challenging the mapping from d-i/keymap values to
XKB configuration is going to be.
If I feel myself getting bogged down, I might do this:
* If the answer to d-i/keymap is whatever the value for a typical US PC
keyboard is, leave the question priority at medium.
* Otherwise, kick the priority up to high.
It makes the install more interactive, which people don't like, but only
for people'd who likely be even more annoyed by a wrong keymap the first
time they start X.
Thoughts?
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=238778
--
G. Branden Robinson | You are not angry with people when
Debian GNU/Linux | you laugh at them. Humor teaches
branden@debian.org | them tolerance.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- W. Somerset Maugham
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