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Reboot in postinst
|
|
| Diogo Kollross 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| Is there a problem in using something like
shutdown -r now
inside a postinst script of a package?
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| Wouter Verhelst 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| Op do, 20-01-2005 te 15:09 -0300, schreef Diogo Kollross:
> Is there a problem in using something like
>
> shutdown -r now
>
> inside a postinst script of a package?
I was going to say something smart and funny, but it isn't coming.
What the hell have you been smoking?
Hint: this isn't Windows. You don't need to reboot your system every
time you move your mouse to "update the changes".
Why would you want to do this?
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| Steve Kemp 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 03:09:46PM -0300, Diogo Kollross wrote:
> Is there a problem in using something like
>
> shutdown -r now
>
> inside a postinst script of a package?
Definately.
Even if the package requires a reboot to work you should let the
administrator choose when that should be done.
(Even kernel upgrades, or module upgrades, draw the line at this
they just tell you a reboot is "strongly recommended").
Steve
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| Osamu Aoki 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 07:35:42PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Op do, 20-01-2005 te 15:09 -0300, schreef Diogo Kollross:
>
> I was going to say something smart and funny, but it isn't coming.
>
> What the hell have you been smoking?
Relax, he did not say "rm -rf /" in postinst.
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| Petter Reinholdtsen 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| [Diogo Kollross]
> Is there a problem in using something like
>
> shutdown -r now
>
> inside a postinst script of a package?
It will probably not do what you want, as the package installation
process might be interrupted, and packages might be left half-way
installed. Besides, it is a very bad idea.
Why do you want to reboot, and when do you want to do it?
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| Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| Diogo Kollross writes:
> shutdown -r now
>
> inside a postinst script of a package?
If you're going do that, you may want to replace /bin/init temporarily
to finish the post-reboot part of the installation.
Jan.
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| Thomas Bushnell BSG 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| Diogo Kollross <diogok_br@yahoo.com.br> writes:
> Is there a problem in using something like
>
> shutdown -r now
>
> inside a postinst script of a package?
Yes. Debian packages are supposed to be able to be installed and
start working without requiring any reboots. We've made this work
pretty well for libc and all kinds of hard cases; you can make it work
for yours too I'm sure.
It is certainly bogus to reboot the machine out from under the
administrator.
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| Miquel van Smoorenburg 2005-01-20, 5:58 pm |
| In article <877jm7n720.fsf@peder.flower>,
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> wrote:
>Diogo Kollross writes:
>
>
>If you're going do that, you may want to replace /bin/init temporarily
>to finish the post-reboot part of the installation.
This is a joke, right ?
Mike.
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| Marc Haber 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:27:46 +0100, Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org>
wrote:
>Relax, he did not say "rm -rf /" in postinst.
That would be postrm.
Greetings
Marc
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| |
| Marc Haber 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On 20 Jan 2005 14:45:52 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG <tb@becket.net>
wrote:
>Yes. Debian packages are supposed to be able to be installed and
>start working without requiring any reboots. We've made this work
>pretty well for libc and all kinds of hard cases; you can make it work
>for yours too I'm sure.
This prompts a question I have been wanting to ask for ages: When a
security update for, say, libc6, libssl or libz is installed, do I
need to restart services or not? That's one of the question you ask
three people and get five different answers.
Greetings
Marc
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Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im =
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| |
| Tino Keitel 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:03:08 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On 20 Jan 2005 14:45:52 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG <tb@becket.net>
> wrote:
>
> This prompts a question I have been wanting to ask for ages: When a
> security update for, say, libc6, libssl or libz is installed, do I
> need to restart services or not? That's one of the question you ask
> three people and get five different answers.
Yes, you should restart the services, since the libraries are loaded by
the service when the it starts, and an upgrade won't replace libraries
in running services.
Regards,
Tino
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| Scott James Remnant 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Fri, 2005-01-21 at 11:03 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On 20 Jan 2005 14:45:52 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG <tb@becket.net>
> wrote:
>
> This prompts a question I have been wanting to ask for ages: When a
> security update for, say, libc6, libssl or libz is installed, do I
> need to restart services or not? That's one of the question you ask
> three people and get five different answers.
>
In fact, after any upgrade to any major libraries on your system, you
should probably reboot.
libc6 is a good example, as every application on your system will have
it loaded. After an upgrade, only those newly started applications will
have the new libc6; the old applications will still be running with the
old libc6. This actually means that you're using more memory because
you have both copies of libc6 mapped in, and more disk space because the
old version is still open so hasn't actually been removed from the disk
yet.
Another example is GTK+ or xlibs, if you perform any upgrade of those
you should at least log out of your session; otherwise again you've got
two sets of all the libraries in memory and on disk.
Scott
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| Andreas Barth 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| * Tino Keitel (tino.keitel@gmx.de) [050121 13:02]:
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:03:08 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Yes, you should restart the services, since the libraries are loaded by
> the service when the it starts, and an upgrade won't replace libraries
> in running services.
I disagree. You should warn the administrator that he has to do that.
Especially just restarting ssh is _very_ wrong IMHO, because it can
easily kill the only access to a remote computer. Take a look how glibc
does it, that's fine IMHO.
Cheers,
Andi
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| Andreas Barth 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| * Andreas Barth (aba@not.so.argh.org) [050121 13:10]:
> * Tino Keitel (tino.keitel@gmx.de) [050121 13:02]:
>
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I disagree. You should warn the administrator that he has to do that.
> Especially just restarting ssh is _very_ wrong IMHO, because it can
> easily kill the only access to a remote computer. Take a look how glibc
> does it, that's fine IMHO.
JFTR: I meant "You" as "the package maintainer". "You" as in
"Administrator of the local machine" should of course restart all code
using old libs. E.g.
lsof | grep dpkg- | awk '{print $1, $8}' | sort +0
helps you to find out which ones.
Cheers,
Andi
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| Adeodato Simó 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| * Andreas Barth [Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:13:51 +0100]:
> using old libs. E.g.
> lsof | grep dpkg- | awk '{print $1, $8}' | sort +0
> helps you to find out which ones.
There is also checkrestart from the debian-goodies package. Seems to
do some more stuff, but don't know how much better it is.
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| David Schmitt 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Friday 21 January 2005 11:03, Marc Haber wrote:
> This prompts a question I have been wanting to ask for ages: When a
> security update for, say, libc6, libssl or libz is installed, do I
> need to restart services or not? That's one of the question you ask
> three people and get five different answers.
I always use "lsof +L1" to view all open, unlinked files. This should include
old versions of libraries.
Regards, David
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| Colin Watson 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 01:06:55PM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote:
> I disagree. You should warn the administrator that he has to do that.
> Especially just restarting ssh is _very_ wrong IMHO, because it can
> easily kill the only access to a remote computer.
Restarting sshd doesn't kill existing sessions. You clearly have an
existing session because you're using it to upgrade.
I think it's better to restart sshd (and possibly have to clean up the
occasional problem) than to have it silently continue running using old
libraries with security issues.
Cheers,
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| Wouter Verhelst 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| Op do, 20-01-2005 te 21:27 +0100, schreef Osamu Aoki:
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 07:35:42PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>
> Relax, he did not say "rm -rf /" in postinst.
Which is why I didn't call him crazy yet.
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| Andreas Barth 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| * Colin Watson (cjwatson@debian.org) [050121 14:50]:
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 01:06:55PM +0100, Andreas Barth wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Restarting sshd doesn't kill existing sessions. You clearly have an
> existing session because you're using it to upgrade.
Yes. But I prefer verifying that I can login again after each ssh
restart. So, I want to do that _only_ if I explicitly do it. (Others may
disagree.)
Cheers,
Andi
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| Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, David Schmitt wrote:
> On Friday 21 January 2005 11:03, Marc Haber wrote:
>
> I always use "lsof +L1" to view all open, unlinked files. This should include
> old versions of libraries.
Not always. Try also a lsof -n | grep dpkg-new.
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| Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Andreas Barth wrote:
> Yes. But I prefer verifying that I can login again after each ssh
> restart. So, I want to do that _only_ if I explicitly do it. (Others may
> disagree.)
I disagree ;-) The way it is done now, punishes lack of attention *IF* a
ssh bug breaks it, with annoying but non-dangerous situation. If ssh is not
restarted, you are now in a dangerous situation if you forget to restart it.
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them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh
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| Florian Weimer 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| * Marc Haber:
> This prompts a question I have been wanting to ask for ages: When a
> security update for, say, libc6, libssl or libz is installed, do I
> need to restart services or not? That's one of the question you ask
> three people and get five different answers.
It depends. If the bug is in a central part (like the DNS resolver),
you'd better reboot the machine, just to be sure. Otherwise, you can
get away with restarting a few services. When the bug is in a
short-running auxiliary program, no further action is required.
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| Roberto Sanchez 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| Quoting Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Andreas Barth wrote:
>
> I disagree ;-) The way it is done now, punishes lack of attention *IF* a
> ssh bug breaks it, with annoying but non-dangerous situation. If ssh is
> not
> restarted, you are now in a dangerous situation if you forget to restart
> it.
>
If the system is that important to the admin, he will pay attention to such
things. Imagine that you are upgrading ssh for some security update over the
weekend. If your system is in some colo or other remote location where you
are unable to access it until Monday morning, then you have a problem if ssh
dies on you.
I agree with Andreas. Even with my machine at home, I always stay logged
in to my current ssh session, restart sshd and immediately try to login agian.
If there is a problem it is immediately apparent AND I know that an action I
took caused it. I.e., I am not trying to figure out which package's postinst
did what. I am also left with at least one active ssh session. I do it this
way because even at home I dislike crawling under my desk to pull the monitor
and keyboard from my workstation to plug them into my headless server.
-Roberto
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| sean finney 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 11:00:49AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:27:46 +0100, Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org>
> wrote:
>
> That would be postrm.
or, prerm, since it hasn't been rm'd yet. postrm would be run after, if
only it still existed after the rm 
sean
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| |
| David Sawyer 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| This reminds me of a horror story at a place I used to work. I was
browsing the 'Net on one of our production servers (this thing served
hundreds of banks around the world). I was looking for some fix or SP
for NT. I came across this site that started installing Flash Player.
It installed it, then a window popped up saying that it was
restarting the system, OOPS!. No confirmation, no double checking,
just too bad so sad, bye bye. It's funny now, but it caused lots of
damage at the time.
Moral of the story: NEVER SHUTDOWN OR REBOOT WITHOUT ASKING.
Dave
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:35:42 +0100, Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> wrote:
> Op do, 20-01-2005 te 15:09 -0300, schreef Diogo Kollross:
>
> I was going to say something smart and funny, but it isn't coming.
>
> What the hell have you been smoking?
>
> Hint: this isn't Windows. You don't need to reboot your system every
> time you move your mouse to "update the changes".
>
> Why would you want to do this?
>
> --
> EARTH
> smog | bricks
> AIR -- mud -- FIRE
> soda water | tequila
> WATER
> -- with thanks to fortune
>
>
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| Petter Reinholdtsen 2005-01-21, 5:53 pm |
| [David Sawyer]
> Moral of the story: NEVER SHUTDOWN OR REBOOT WITHOUT ASKING.
Another moral might be to always test the stuff you plan to do on a
production server on a test-server first. I fail to see how it is
sensible to browse the net on a production server. And I fail to see
how it is smart to run as a privileged user when it isn't required to
do so.
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| Anurag 2005-01-22, 5:50 pm |
| Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>
> Never mind the very idea of using anything Microsoft in such a scenario.
^^^^^^^^^
You meant Micros~1 ?
:-)
Anurag
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| Marc Haber 2005-01-23, 7:47 am |
| On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:06:55 +0100, Andreas Barth
<aba@not.so.argh.org> wrote:
>I disagree. You should warn the administrator that he has to do that.
>Especially just restarting ssh is _very_ wrong IMHO, because it can
>easily kill the only access to a remote computer. Take a look how glibc
>does it, that's fine IMHO.
I haven't been asked to re-start any services by glibc updates for
quite some time, and back in the days when glibc asked to restart
services, it always failed.
So, rebooting seems to be the only way to be sure after a library
update.
Greetings
Marc
--=20
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! =
-----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im =
Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | =
http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 =
72739834
| |
| Marc Haber 2005-01-23, 5:51 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:34:51 -0500, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
wrote:
>Roberto Sanchez wrote:
such[vbcol=seagreen]
over the[vbcol=seagreen]
where you[vbcol=seagreen]
if ssh[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>If your system is in a colo, it would be wise to have a backup login
>method besides ssh.
At least in Germany, cheap colocated servers for about $40 a month
(including hardware rent, colo space, power and net) are
state-of-the-art at the moment. Having a serial console is pretty
exotic with these servers. Usually the most you get is a remote power
cycle facility and some rescue system which can be bootet over the
network.
Greetins
Marc
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Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im =
Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | =
http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 =
72739834
| |
| Wouter Verhelst 2005-01-23, 5:51 pm |
| Op zo, 23-01-2005 te 10:30 +0100, schreef Marc Haber:
> I haven't been asked to re-start any services by glibc updates for
> quite some time, and back in the days when glibc asked to restart
> services, it always failed.
>
> So, rebooting seems to be the only way to be sure after a library
> update.
lsof +L 1
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| Brian May 2005-01-24, 2:48 am |
| >>>>> "Wouter" == Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> writes:
Wouter> lsof +L 1
rebooting is the only way to make sure rebooting will work if a reboot
is required for some reason during peak usage, e.g. power failure,
etc...
In some situations it might be better to test rebooting first at
low-demand times. Or if you plan on being off-site for an extended
period of time.
--
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| Marc Haber 2005-01-24, 7:48 am |
| On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:21:36 +0100, Adeodato Sim=F3 <asp16@alu.ua.es>
wrote:
>* Andreas Barth [Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:13:51 +0100]:
>
> There is also checkrestart from the debian-goodies package. Seems to
> do some more stuff, but don't know how much better it is.
It seems, however, to be very easy to use. I will try how it works out
to have this in apt's Dpkg::PostInvoke.
Greetings
Marc
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Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im =
Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | =
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Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 =
72739834
| |
| Roberto Sanchez 2005-01-24, 7:48 am |
| Brian May wrote:
>
>
> Wouter> lsof +L 1
>
> rebooting is the only way to make sure rebooting will work if a reboot
> is required for some reason during peak usage, e.g. power failure,
> etc...
>
> In some situations it might be better to test rebooting first at
> low-demand times. Or if you plan on being off-site for an extended
> period of time.
But, it should still be the administrator's decision as to exactly when
that time is best.
-Roberto
--
Roberto Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr
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| Wouter Verhelst 2005-01-24, 7:48 am |
| Op ma, 24-01-2005 te 16:39 +1100, schreef Brian May:
>
> Wouter> lsof +L 1
>
> rebooting is the only way to make sure rebooting will work if a reboot
> is required for some reason during peak usage, e.g. power failure,
> etc...
>
> In some situations it might be better to test rebooting first at
> low-demand times. Or if you plan on being off-site for an extended
> period of time.
Of course. OTOH, if you /are/ off-site, and want to be sure the system
comes back up again, it's nice to know that you can indeed restart
applications that need it without having to reboot the system; that was
my point.
--
EARTH
smog | bricks
AIR -- mud -- FIRE
soda water | tequila
WATER
-- with thanks to fortune
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| Anthony DeRobertis 2005-01-30, 7:50 am |
| On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 10:18:44AM -0800, Ken Bloom wrote:
> So I dist-upgrade, and it upgrades 12 packages. Your postinst runs before
> any of the other 11. The computer reboots immediately in your postinst.
Even worse: One of those other 11 was a kernel-image package, and this
machine uses lilo.
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