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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > July 2005 > Package distribution, a concept for a modern package distribution
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Package distribution, a concept for a modern package distribution
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| Otto Wyss 2005-06-24, 6:00 pm |
| Since around last October, I've considered to make my concept for a
modern package distribution public but I wanted to wait until
Debian/sarge was released which is now the case. And since the Debconf5
in Helsinki is just around the corner it's about the right time.
The concept is based on an LDAP server (or simiar) as a replacement for
the Packages file and on a P2P network for package distribution (see
http://wyodesktop.sourceforge.net/i...ge=pkgdist.html). IMO it
would make a lot sense if this concept is discussed at the Debconf5.
I'm not actively work on this concept and its implementation since I've
_no_ time, sorry. If someone else is interested just say so.
O. Wyss
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| sean finney 2005-06-25, 8:47 pm |
| On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 06:14:46PM +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
> The concept is based on an LDAP server (or simiar) as a replacement for
> the Packages file and on a P2P network for package distribution (see
> http://wyodesktop.sourceforge.net/i...ge=pkgdist.html). IMO it
> would make a lot sense if this concept is discussed at the Debconf5.
i actually wrote something that exported a local mirror/server's Packages.gz
file into an LDAP directory[1], as well as wrote the beginnings of an
add-on method to apt to query this server. as far as speed/transfer
efficiency goes, we're an order or two of magnitude at the very least.
however, there hasn't seemed to be much interest from others in my
continuing it, so i've been focusing on other things lately.
also, there's a limitation in apt that it expects the list of
packages to be retrieved through the same method as the packages
themselves, which would get a little hairy with LDAP (you don't want to
be holding the packages themselves, in LDAP of course). there could
be a quick-hack workaround for this by having ldap-ftp/ldap-http methods
that wrap around the ftp/http for the actual fetching, but a real fix
would be to patch apt to allow for this. such a patch would also make
it easier to distribute the packages list via other methodst too.
anyway if there are more people interested in working on this, i'd be
willing to put my code in cvs/svn and start up an alioth project.
sean
[1] see "Package Lists via LDAP" http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2004/48/
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| Otto Wyss 2005-06-26, 2:48 am |
| > On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 06:14:46PM +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
>
> i actually wrote something that exported a local mirror/server's Packages.gz
> file into an LDAP directory[1], as well as wrote the beginnings of an
> add-on method to apt to query this server. as far as speed/transfer
> efficiency goes, we're an order or two of magnitude at the very least.
> however, there hasn't seemed to be much interest from others in my
> continuing it, so i've been focusing on other things lately.
>
I've seen some messages about an LDAP implementation around last october
but I couldn't find them. I'm quite sure an LDAP solution is much better
than the current solution. But before implementing it, it has to be
evaluated against other way so it's truely the best.
> also, there's a limitation in apt that it expects the list of
> packages to be retrieved through the same method as the packages
> themselves, which would get a little hairy with LDAP (you don't want to
> be holding the packages themselves, in LDAP of course). there could
> be a quick-hack workaround for this by having ldap-ftp/ldap-http methods
> that wrap around the ftp/http for the actual fetching, but a real fix
> would be to patch apt to allow for this. such a patch would also make
> it easier to distribute the packages list via other methodst too.
>
I wouldn't base any work on apt but start a complete new way of package
distribution. The advantage is the stabe apt will keep on working while
the new solution won't be hampered by any current limitation. IMO a P2P
network would be a much better solution but yet again it has to be
checked if it this is really true or if there are better alternatives.
> anyway if there are more people interested in working on this, i'd be
> willing to put my code in cvs/svn and start up an alioth project.
>
The best way to start a new package distribution is to name a place
where it can be discussed off Debian-devel. Since this concept probably
has many more implications, like what about Debian installer etc, I
think it would make a lot of sense to first collect any pros and cons
and discuss them at Debconf5 and possibly on a list. Since I can't
attend Debconf5 myself I'd appreciate if someone could keep track of the
discussion there and forward it to the list.
So the first action should be to set up or name this package
distribution list and start collecting arguments there.
Besides, until a better place is found I'll keep
"http://wyodesktop.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=pkgdist.html" updated,
so you may send any input to the wyodesktop-users list or directly to me
(list would be better because less spam prone).
O. Wyss
--
Development of frame buffer drivers: http://linux-fbdev.sf.net
Sample code snippets for wxWidgets: http://wxcode.sf.net
How to build well-designed applications: http://wyoguide.sf.net
Desktop with a consistent look and feel: http://wyodesktop.sf.net
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| sean finney 2005-06-26, 5:54 pm |
| On Sun, Jun 26, 2005 at 09:16:42AM +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
> I've seen some messages about an LDAP implementation around last october
> but I couldn't find them. I'm quite sure an LDAP solution is much better
> than the current solution. But before implementing it, it has to be
> evaluated against other way so it's truely the best.
i don't believe there is a "best" way, actually. in many circumstances,
one alternative is better than another, but in others vice versa.
> I wouldn't base any work on apt but start a complete new way of package
> distribution. The advantage is the stabe apt will keep on working while
> the new solution won't be hampered by any current limitation. IMO a P2P
> network would be a much better solution but yet again it has to be
> checked if it this is really true or if there are better alternatives.
i don't see why we'd have to reinvent the wheel, and wouldn't be
interested in doing so, frankly. apt provides a fairly easy way to
extend itself to use new protocols (ldap, bt, whatever). the
distributing/fetching of packages and package info is only one
small aspect of package management, and i'd to keep it that way
and let apt/aptitude/whatever handle all the really hard stuff.
sean
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| Anthony DeRobertis 2005-07-07, 7:56 am |
| Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> For some time now (as in around a year) you can update your Packages
> files by downloading only the differences (ed script format diff) to
> your local file. Using that daily updates go down from the full 3+MB
> (2+Mb with bz2 now) to ~10K per day.
Really? I don't see it documented in, e.g. the sources.list manpage.
Google finds only an open bug requesting the feature. Nor do I find any
diffs at, e.g.,
http://http.us.debian.org/debian/di...in/binary-i386/
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