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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > January 2006 > The klik project and Debian
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The klik project and Debian
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| anonymous@nospam.net 2006-01-19, 2:57 am |
| There seems to be a fairly good amount of Debian Sarge packages available via http://klik.atekon.de/. However, most of them are having unmaintained recipes and therefore some of them do not work properly. I think it would be an easy task for Debian mainta
iners to check the working of the kliked packages and improve their recipes. I think we should make friends with the klik project and help them. This could give some momentum for the whole Linux community as the kliked packages should work in many other d
istributions besides Debian. The klik way of obtaining packages seems to have solved many other problems related to package management as well, so this is something Debian developers should study carefully.
Cheers, A little Debian user
Do not send me personal email (I am afraid of revealing my email address in publicity)
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| Romain Beauxis 2006-01-19, 8:12 am |
| Le Jeudi 19 Janvier 2006 08:48, Peter Samuelson a =E9crit=A0:
> For those following along at home, it seems klik is some sort of
> gateway to install Debian packages on various non-Debian distributions.
> I imagine it's an ftp frontend to alien.
Well..=20
In fact, it is a scripted version of apt that can install package in a temp=
=20
directory.
The aim of it is to allow normal user to install app without write acess=20
to /usr etc..
One application for it is to test a beta release without the need to have i=
t=20
definitly installed.
My own feeling about it is that the author is not very honnest with the deb=
ian=20
packaging work.
No where in his web page is written that in fact klik is a refactoring of=20
actual debian packages. Instead, it is at least implcitly told that it's al=
l=20
the author's work... I feel it as being not honnest so I don't see why I=20
should really care..
> Do they solve any of these problems better than Debian does? =A0Would
> Debian users derive any value from klik? =A0How?
Hum... It allows non permanent installation which can be seen as good thing=
,=20
but, even if I'm not deeply aware of it, I can imagine that it needs to=20
install libraries and other things, and has the risk of puting a real mess =
in=20
your system...
=46urthermore, the instalation script is not documented, and I had to go th=
rough=20
the source to know what it was doing..
> If not, I fail to see why Debian should care. =A0We've got enough to
> worry about just making packages suitable for Debian - why go out of
> our way to help people who refuse to use Debian?
And to people who refuse to mention their use of debian's work...
Romain
=2D-=20
There is a land far, far away
Where there's no night, there's only day
Look into the book of life and you will see
That there's a land far, far away
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| Romain Beauxis 2006-01-19, 8:12 am |
| Le Jeudi 19 Janvier 2006 09:57, Romain Beauxis a =E9crit=A0:
> No where in his web page is written that in fact klik is a refactoring of
> actual debian packages.
Ok I was wrong it is written in small at the end:
"Thanks to debian for the software compilation and packaging."
Romain
=2D-=20
Satan is an evilous man,
But him can't chocks it on I-man
So when I check him my lassing hand
And if him slip, I gaan with him hand
| |
| Isaac Clerencia 2006-01-19, 8:12 am |
| On Thursday 19 January 2006 09:57, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> My own feeling about it is that the author is not very honnest with the
> debian packaging work.
=46rom klik.atekon.de: "Thanks to debian for the software compilation and=20
packaging."
> Hum... It allows non permanent installation which can be seen as good
> thing, but, even if I'm not deeply aware of it, I can imagine that it nee=
ds
> to install libraries and other things, and has the risk of puting a real
> mess in your system...
> Furthermore, the instalation script is not documented, and I had to go
> through the source to know what it was doing..
IIRC it creates some kind of chroot.
>
> And to people who refuse to mention their use of debian's work...
See above
> Romain
| |
| Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt 2006-01-19, 8:12 am |
| | |
| Adam Heath 2006-01-19, 6:25 pm |
| On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Frank K=FCster wrote:
> anonymous@nospam.net wrote:
>
>
> Shouldn't this have been on debian-devel-announce?
Ha. You funny man. Me laugh.
| |
| Kurt Pfeifle 2006-01-19, 6:25 pm |
| > Le Jeudi 19 Janvier 2006 08:48, Peter Samuelson a =E9crit?:
>
> Well..
> In fact, it is a scripted version of apt that can install package in a te=
mp
> directory.
"scripted" is right. "apt" (or Debian) is not exclusively used, only=20
mostly.=20
"install" I wouldnt call what klik does. It brings a single file to your=20
system (hrmmmm.... yes, in previous versions, for debugging purposes it
had leftovers in /tmp/klik/<appname>/), which is relocateable, can be
run and used, but does not mess with your system's package manager's holy
realm.
> The aim of it is to allow normal user to install app without write acess
> to /usr etc..
Not "install" the app. "Use" the app is more precise. Doesnt put anything
into /usr etc. Just into the user's $HOME/Desktop/ (by default -- may be
moved any time).
> One application for it is to test a beta release without the need to have
> it definitly installed.
Right.
> My own feeling about it is that the author is not very honnest with the
> debian packaging work.
Why?!?
> No where in his web page is written that in fact klik is a refactoring of
> actual debian packages.
Read again.=20
I'm sure you'll discover it. 1 minute ago I checked, and it was still there:
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Thanks to debian for the software compilation and packaging."=20
----------------------------------------------------------------
On nearly every page. In the footer.
I'm sure we are open for negotiation to make that note even more prominent,
or re-word it. Please make a suggestion. (But please do also bear in mind
that it shouldn't be too annoying and "jumping" into the face of frequent
klik users).
> Instead, it is at least implcitly told that it's=20
> all the author's work...
"klik by Simon Peter.
Thanks to all contributors on #klik.
Thanks to debian for the software compilation and packaging.
[....] Thanks to all users who give feedback.=20
THIS IS PURELY EXPERIMENTAL SOFTWARE."
On nearly each page's footer...
Are you sure you have looked onto the *real* klik page?=20
http://klik.atekon.de/ ?
> I feel it as being not honnest so I don't see why=20
> I should really care..
=46ortunately, you are wrong here.
>
> Hum... It allows non permanent installation which can be seen as good
> thing, but, even if I'm not deeply aware of it, I can imagine that it nee=
ds
> to install libraries and other things, and has the risk of puting a real
> mess in your system...
No.
The beauty of klik is that it does not mess *at all* with your system!
It doesnt "install" libraries.=20
The only things a running klik-ified application will ever endanger by
touching them are the "dot" files and directories in the user's home=20
directory. These are generally not seens as being part of the "system".
(Of course, for the user they may be even more valuable than the system
which can be easily rebuild...)
If a klik bundle needs specific libraries, these will be embedded into=20
the single compressed, self-contained file system image *.cmg file. Your=20
system will not notice these additional libraries.
If these libraries are buggy, your system's installed base stability=20
will not suffer.
If the klik app is failing.... well, then just that app doesnt run.
> Furthermore, the instalation script is not documented, and I had to go
> through the source to know what it was doing..
Please poke a bit more on the klik website. You may want to look at the
=46AQ first: http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/User's_FAQ
>
> And to people who refuse to mention their use of debian's work.
Heh...
Cheers,
Kurt [not subscribed]
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