Debian Developers - Debian should have a weekly debate

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Debian should have a weekly debate

alfredo diega

2006-07-31, 1:25 pm

I really believe Debian would benefit if they had a weekly debate. I
understand you debate on things you are voting on, but I think it could be
better if you debated on general concerns. I was reading the "Why Ubuntu
has
all the ideas" thread and think two things were apparent.

First- Many wrote quick feelings out of impulse. Often, they had good
ideas
they wanted to express, but because of impulse, said them in ways that were
not
the most productive. Many were accused of being trolls or making personal
attacks because of this.

Second- Many people had a few issues that they so deeply wanted to express
that they couldn't hold back, even though it may cause an argument. I don't

think this is a bad thing, but it does to me show many have issues they
would
like to be discussed.

This leads me to believe one of the best things the Debian project could
adopt is a weekly debate. This is really healthy for a society, I hope you
take
the idea seriously. Every day when I watch CNN they have a panel of people
debating key issues which need to be addressed. Whenever I come away from
one
of those debates, I know I am better informed, and better able to contribute
to
society in a productive way. I think this will also hold true for all the
Debian Developers.

This is what needs to happen, two weeks before a debate there needs to be a
topic announced and a call for volunteers. There should be 3-4 people who
feel
passionately about the issue who should volunteer. Then they should have
two
weeks to draft a statement, about 1-3 pages long about how they feel about
the
subject. During the two weeks they could privately collaborate with others
for
advice. After two weeks the volunteers would release their statements on a
debian-debate mailing list or something. They should then have 48 hours to
officially respond to the other statements. Then it should be open floor
where
all the devs comment and each of the statements and rebuttals. That could
last
a few days. Then the next week it starts again. (Obviously if you have two
weeks to prepare but the debate happen each week they would have to slightly

stager over each other.) *These debates should not happen on IRC. If
feelings
are too deep out of impulse things will be said that shouldn't be said*

I really believe this will allow those who feel passionately about a
subject
to have a voice, and allow time and contemplation so that there aren't
abrupt
statements that are too impulsive and not that informative. It takes time
to of
ten draft a statement that articulates your thoughts in a way that is best
said.
Again there could be some private collaboration.

Obviously the topics should not be things like: Should Debian squash
bugs?
Should Devs continue to use the command line? Those are pointless. How
about
things like some of the main topics in the "Ubuntu" thread.

How do you feel about the innovation level and direction in Debian? What
should stay the same, and how should things be changed?

Should there be only individual maintainers of important packages or
should
they be done in teams? Or should there be a central source that all
Developers
can touch, or should maintainers have a more "you worry about your package,
and me mine" attitude? Or is there a better middle ground?

How well is Debian catering to the Desktop user? Should more be done,
less,
or are things just fine? Or maybe in some way should things be done
different?

I am not saying these are the best topics, but I think you get the
idea. I
just really feel some healthy debate would be beneficial for Debian. It
would
keep everyone more informed on key issues, and would allow people who feel
passionately about the subject to get it out in an intellectual manner. It
will
also get discussion about things that really need to be discussed, but
people
are afraid to bring up because feelings run high.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

alfo

martin f krafft

2006-07-31, 1:25 pm

also sprach alfredo diega <alfredodiega666@gmail.com> [2006.07.31.1616 +0100]:
> I really believe Debian would benefit if they had a weekly debate.
> I understand you debate on things you are voting on, but I think
> it could be better if you debated on general concerns. I was
> reading the "Why Ubuntu has all the ideas" thread and think two
> things were apparent.

I don't think a debate is in any way a useful format for F/OSS, but
there's nothing preventing you from inviting to one and moderating
it.

> Every day when I watch CNN they have a panel of people debating
> key issues which need to be addressed.

I generally end up wanting to throw up seeing those people discuss.
Words and no action. And I more than often wonder why some people
are even given the chance chance to speak about a topic. Like the
other day I read a statement by Britney "hussy" Spears about the
Lebanon situation. WTF?

I'd prefer if Debian got work done rather than talk (too) much about
issues. We know we're going to disagree on many things, and mailing
list discussions at least give us links with some of the useful
comments to link to from DWN or other discussions.

--
Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!

.''`. martin f. krafft <madduck@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system

don't hate yourself in the morning -- sleep till noon.

Gustavo Franco

2006-07-31, 1:25 pm

On 7/31/06, martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org> wrote:
> also sprach alfredo diega <alfredodiega666@gmail.com> [2006.07.31.1616 +0100]:
>
> I don't think a debate is in any way a useful format for F/OSS, but
> there's nothing preventing you from inviting to one and moderating
> it.

I thought #debian-tech @ irc.oftc.net was started with the "technical
debates" goal in mind, no?

>
> I generally end up wanting to throw up seeing those people discuss.
> Words and no action. And I more than often wonder why some people
> are even given the chance chance to speak about a topic. Like the
> other day I read a statement by Britney "hussy" Spears about the
> Lebanon situation. WTF?
>
> I'd prefer if Debian got work done rather than talk (too) much about
> issues. We know we're going to disagree on many things, and mailing
> list discussions at least give us links with some of the useful
> comments to link to from DWN or other discussions.

I agree, but i think that the online meetings about specific projects
work. (eg: d-i, ltsp, ...)

regards,
-- stratus

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George Danchev

2006-07-31, 1:25 pm

On Monday 31 July 2006 18:16, alfredo diega wrote:
> I really believe Debian would benefit if they had a weekly debate. I
> understand you debate on things you are voting on, but I think it could be
> better if you debated on general concerns. I was reading the "Why Ubuntu
> has
> all the ideas" thread and think two things were apparent.

AFAICS debates are ongoing all the time via various comm channels - MLs,
various wiki pages, IRC channels, even VCS if you want ;-) What channel do
you miss to debate thru ?

> First- Many wrote quick feelings out of impulse. Often, they had good
> ideas
> they wanted to express, but because of impulse, said them in ways that were
> not
> the most productive. Many were accused of being trolls or making personal
> attacks because of this.
>
> Second- Many people had a few issues that they so deeply wanted to express
> that they couldn't hold back, even though it may cause an argument. I
> don't
>
> think this is a bad thing, but it does to me show many have issues they
> would
> like to be discussed.
>
> This leads me to believe one of the best things the Debian project could
> adopt is a weekly debate. This is really healthy for a society, I hope you
> take
> the idea seriously. Every day when I watch CNN they have a panel of
> people debating key issues which need to be addressed. Whenever I come
> away from one
> of those debates, I know I am better informed, and better able to
> contribute to
> society in a productive way. I think this will also hold true for all the
> Debian Developers.

That will consume tons of time which is better to be spent in fixing RC-bugs,
helping WNPP, improving d-i, processing and mentoring NMs, improving artworks
and such.

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fingerprint 1AE7 7C66 0A26 5BFF DF22 5D55 1C57 0C89 0E4B D0AB

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