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Home > Archive > Debian Developers > January 2007 > RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
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RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
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| Roberto C. Sanchez 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| Today I was trying to explain to a friend the concept of using a package
management front end to search for and install packages. He liked the
idea of descriptions, but found it hard to imagine what some programs
looked like. It occurs to me that what is missing is screenshots.
Please note that this idea is targeted at GUI users, particularly those
who also use a GUI package manager (e.g., synaptic), though not
exclusively.
What I propose is this:
A service located at screenshots.debian.org (or something else
appropriate), similar to packages.debian.org. Naturally, every package
will not require screenshots, but for those which would benefit from
letting the user see them in action, this could work.
It would be necessary to add a field in debian/control called
"Screenshots:" which provides a URL to the screenshots. The package
manager can handle this in different ways. For example, aptitude may
simply want to print the URL so that if the user is using it in an
xterm, he can copy and paste into a browser. OTOH, synaptic might
simply create a button (without showing the URL) that launches a browser
to the right window. Alternatively, synaptic may download the images
and just display them in a tab or part of the window. The possibilties
are many.
Users could also simply browse to screenshots.d.o and search and browse
as with packages.d.o.
Uploads of screenshots can be handled similarly to uploads now, either
by a recognized DD or a DD sponsoring someone else. Another possibility
would be for something which requires a web login and allows direct
uploading. We would need a way to tag the screenshots with version
numbers and other suitable metadata to avert confusion for users.
Additionally, we may want to, as p.d.o does, differentiate between
oldstable/stable/testing/experimental. User contributed screenshots can
be submitted by filing wishlist bugs against the package and the
maintainer can then choose whether or not to accept the contribution.
There would need to be standards for size and format. I would propose
640x480 or 480x640 (soft minimum) to 1024x768 or 768x1024 (hard
maximum), PNG with max compression. Max file size could be set at 100k
or something like that.
I'd be interested in knowing:
* Would such an idea be feasible?
* Would maintainers be willing to occasionally upload screenshots?
* What would be a good way to get started? (*)
As far as getting started:
* Would this need to start on debian.net?
* What would be the requirements/limitations/guidelines?
Did I miss anything?
I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this.
Regards,
-Roberto
--
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com
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| Pierre Habouzit 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| | |
| Nico Golde 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| Hi,
* Pierre Habouzit <madcoder@debian.org> [2007-01-03 23:53]:
> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>
> this idea has been discussed recently, I just can't remember when
> exactly though, I'd say in the late 6 monthes. Maybe you can grab some
> names of people that were involved in the first proposal there. It may
> have been proposed on -project rather than devel. But I suppose google
> will know about it.
Maybe the following?
http://lists.debian.org/debian-deve...4/msg00915.html
Some replies are not in the thread.
Kind regards
Nico
--
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JAB: nion@jabber.ccc.de - GPG: 0x73647CFF
Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons,
gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys!
| |
| Pierre Habouzit 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| | |
| Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> I'd be interested in knowing:
>
> * Would such an idea be feasible?
Yes, it only requires somebody to code in the missing pieces (i.e. all of
them)
> * Would maintainers be willing to occasionally upload screenshots?
I would.
> * What would be a good way to get started? (*)
- Code in an upload queue implementing something akin to master (i.e. upload
through anonymous ftp and put the screenshots in a pool, define a changes
file format to describe which version is being screenshotted etc.)
- Provide an HTML interface to the pool
If the packages names are the same I don't see the need to add yet another
line to the debian/control file, packages.debian.org would just need to point
to http://screenshots.debian.org/<package_name> and that's it.
> As far as getting started:
>
> * Would this need to start on debian.net?
Probably, until a proof of concept is working and an official domain is
provided.
> * What would be the requirements/limitations/guidelines?
Do you mean server requirements? I guess that it's disk and bandwidth.
As for limitations, if you are restricting this to DD uploads there is a
severe limitation (i.e. users cannot 'contribute' screenshots)
> I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this.
I say that is a good idea, but I'm not sure how screenshots.debian.org would
help your friend. If you are talking about one-five screenshot per package
(or per package version) that is hardly sufficient to explain how a package
manager works. Better yet if someone wrote a package management document
using DocBook and including screenshots and that was published in the
website.
Regards
Javier
| |
| Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:05:03AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Maybe the following?
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-deve...4/msg00915.html
It's not exactly the same idea. The proposer (Gonéri Le Bouder [0]) focused
on what the layout and distribution of images [1] should be, but not on:
- who provides the screenshots? how are they uploaded and validated? (is
there an upload queue who manages all this automatically?)
- is there a web interface to that information or it will just be used by
package managers?
The Alioth project was named 'apt-pixmap' [1] there has been no activity
in its mailing list [2] and the original location of the "proof of concept"
[3] does not exist any longer. So I guess the project did not spark enough
attention.
Some of the information in the project as well as the threads can be used to
draft a new proposal, however.
I think that something similar to backports.org (a service where both DDs and
non-DDs could upload screenshots to) and provided a web interface to view
screenshots by package version would be really cool.
Regards
Javier
[0] Who, BTS is now the proud father of a little girl:
http://orniere-du-globe.net/blog/?p=312 :-)
[1] Based on Debian packages or TAR files so the user could download *all*
the screenshots using a specific tool. Which, BTW, I don't think is a good
idea.
[2] http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-pixmap/
[3] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mail...apt-pixmap-repo
[4] http://gloria.rulezlan.org/debian2/
| |
| Miriam Ruiz 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
|
--- "Roberto C. Sanchez" <roberto@connexer.com> escribió:
> I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this.
We discussed that idea in the Debian Games Team some time ago, and we're very
interested in it. At least for games, having screenshots is something very
important.
Greetings,
Miry
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| Roberto C. Sanchez 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 05:41:35PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>
> Yes, it only requires somebody to code in the missing pieces (i.e. all of
> them)
>
OK. Give me a couple of days :-)
>
> - Code in an upload queue implementing something akin to master (i.e. upload
> through anonymous ftp and put the screenshots in a pool, define a changes
> file format to describe which version is being screenshotted etc.)
>
OK. I'd appreciate some help with this, or some pointers, or anything.
This is probably the piece which I am least qualified to do.
> - Provide an HTML interface to the pool
>
> If the packages names are the same I don't see the need to add yet another
> line to the debian/control file, packages.debian.org would just need to point
> to http://screenshots.debian.org/<package_name> and that's it.
>
Good idea. I'd not though about it that way. We would then only need a
default place holder for packages without screenshots.
>
> Probably, until a proof of concept is working and an official domain is
> provided.
>
OK. Once I get something a little more concrete up and running, I'll
see about getting a DNS entry in the debian.net zone file.
>
> Do you mean server requirements? I guess that it's disk and bandwidth.
> As for limitations, if you are restricting this to DD uploads there is a
> severe limitation (i.e. users cannot 'contribute' screenshots)
>
What about my suggestion for user contributed screenshots via bug
reports? The BTS accepts attachments to emails, so I think that would
work.
>
> I say that is a good idea, but I'm not sure how screenshots.debian.org would
> help your friend. If you are talking about one-five screenshot per package
> (or per package version) that is hardly sufficient to explain how a package
> manager works. Better yet if someone wrote a package management document
> using DocBook and including screenshots and that was published in the
> website.
>
Here is how it would help. He wants an email client and so he searches
for one. The list includes icedove, sylpheed, mutt, kmail, evolution
and others. They all have descriptions, but he can't visualize what
they look like, especially not being familiar with them. Having
screenshots available makes it so that he can compare them, at least
based on how they look.
Regards,
-Roberto
--
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com
| |
| Luis Matos 2007-01-06, 8:06 pm |
| Maybe in the /debian package, there could be a package.png that is the
screenshot and make them available in the mirrors (pool).
maybe creating a file such as Packages.gz or an extension to it,
informing that it has the screenshot available.
then the user could access the pool ... or ... use some kind of client
that uses the apt-get database to search for screenshots.
For example, a simple gtk window with a combo box with the packages'
names who has screenshots, and the user could:
1 - select the package
1.1 - application downloads it
2 - view in the application window
3 - full screen ( maybe using eog?)
i think it is simple.
Although ... the package will see it's source size increased and... 1 MB
for 10% of debian's packages is +/- 2 Gb more of disk space in the mirrors.
The screenshots can also use a similar process but use a package of
their own.
With the same process described, a package_0.3-1.dscr will have a bunch
of screenshots of package.
This package can be downloaded and untared for view, in the user's
application.
What do you think?
Got lost??
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:05:03AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote:
>
>
> It's not exactly the same idea. The proposer (Gonéri Le Bouder [0]) focused
> on what the layout and distribution of images [1] should be, but not on:
>
> - who provides the screenshots? how are they uploaded and validated? (is
> there an upload queue who manages all this automatically?)
>
> - is there a web interface to that information or it will just be used by
> package managers?
>
> The Alioth project was named 'apt-pixmap' [1] there has been no activity
> in its mailing list [2] and the original location of the "proof of concept"
> [3] does not exist any longer. So I guess the project did not spark enough
> attention.
>
> Some of the information in the project as well as the threads can be used to
> draft a new proposal, however.
>
> I think that something similar to backports.org (a service where both DDs and
> non-DDs could upload screenshots to) and provided a web interface to view
> screenshots by package version would be really cool.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Javier
>
> [0] Who, BTS is now the proud father of a little girl:
> http://orniere-du-globe.net/blog/?p=312 :-)
>
> [1] Based on Debian packages or TAR files so the user could download *all*
> the screenshots using a specific tool. Which, BTW, I don't think is a good
> idea.
>
> [2] http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-pixmap/
>
> [3] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mail...apt-pixmap-repo
>
> [4] http://gloria.rulezlan.org/debian2/
>
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| |
| Yaroslav Halchenko 2007-01-07, 7:24 am |
| Indeed, given applications are not good examples for this matter.
Although it would be somewhat a waste of bandwidth, but having a
screenshot of a CLI application with output its produces for a typical
use case sounds like a good idea IMHO.
Or, to make it less waste, I suggest to allow for a 'screenshot' to be
of .txt format, where CLI applications would have a terminal output from
a few typical use cases outputs. IMHO those would be quite useful to
assess the interest of a user to a given package.
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007, The Fungi wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:47:56PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> [...]
> [...]
> To get pedantic, the applications you mention do have text-based
> interfaces, but are not good examples of a command-line interface
> (bc, sed, ed, ps, ls, cat...). Note the package descriptions for
> your examples say text-based, character mode, console, et cetera;
> but none mention their command-line interface (for those that even
> have one).
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