Re: What FlashCom features do you want

I agree that the pricing is ridicolous - it might not have been so bad a =
few
years ago, but today 'everyone' is on broadband, and video is being pushe=
d
more and more on the net.

We use FCS on a smaller scale, but are still challenged with the licensin=
g.
Hopefully MM will lift some restrictions soon, though...

I don't agree with some of your points regarding AS and server-side
functionality. While I am sure you might be able to do similar stuff (for
video) on other streaming servers, I don't believe they are as easy to
develop as on the FCS, and of course, FCS offers more than just video
streaming... (I'd like to see a Real conferencing application using SMIL
that compares to what you can build with Flash).

We use FCS for streaming video due to its cross-browser, cross-platform
compatability, and because of the ease of creating custom players with
custom functionality. It works, and it looks the same on any system. As a=
n
end user, I hate Real for all the bull they put you through when installi=
ng
and registering the player/plug-in (used to hate, I have been ignoring re=
al
for a good 5 years now, so they might have changed). QuickTime has its
moments, but again, once you install the player, processes start running =
in
the background, there are 'reminders' about upgrading yadayadayada...

As a developer, having worked with Helix in the past to stream Real and W=
M,
I must say that the move to Flash and FCS was a delight. I learnt FCS mon=
ths
before I downloaded a trial for Flash and started client-side development=
as
well. The Flash/FCS combo, paired with remoting, which makes it a trio, I
guess , opens up a whole new world of opportunities. I am sure most of =
you
know what I mean when I say only your imagination is the limit (well, and
the licencing, of course)...

I'll stop rambling, but I agree with Kevin's view on the licensing. MM ne=
eds
to make money, but come on... at least make it feasible to the developer.=
..

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Kevin Day" <toasty-A9G4PF0S4yWzR313v1King@public.gmane.org>
To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pub
lic.gmane.org>; "Simon Lo=
rd"
<slord-1+jUDDTtyItWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] What FlashCom features do you want
inafutureversionofFlash?

>
> On Aug 25, 2005, at 12:32 AM, Simon Lord wrote: 
>
>
> Before we deployed anything, we looked heavily at Real, QuickTime,
> WMP, and every minor player out there.
>
> Here's the comparison we came up with:
>
> Real's Helix server is completely free
> Real's commercial Helix Unlimited (perpetual license) server is $8999
> retail.
> Real's commercial Helix Universal Unlimited (perpetual license) is
> around $12000.
> Quicktime Server is free with an XServe. I could buy a brand new
> XServe and get an unlimited perpetual license + OS + new hardware for
> $3995.
> Windows Media Server is just a license for Windows Server 2003
> Standard, which is around $700, and includes an OS.
>
>
> Assuming we want to push as much bandwidth as we feel like it (we
> can't plan for sudden peaks, and we want to send high quality
> streams) - which also makes the comparisons to the above products
> more equal, for one year we have to pay:
>
> $4500 for the base server
> $27996 for 1 year of unlimited bandwidth ($6999 for an 90 unlimited
> capacity pack x 4)
>
> To make matters worse, what we were able to accomplish on one server
> (Dual 3.06Ghz Xeon for WMP and Real, Dual 2Ghz G5 for Quicktime)
> required two servers with FCS because of increased CPU and memory
> utilization.
>
> When spread over a 3 year period (how long we'd estimate most of our
> projects to last):
>
> Real: $12,000 (worst case)
> Quicktime: $3,995 (Plus we get a free server and free OS)
> Windows: $700 (Plus we get a free OS)
> Flash: $176,876 ( 2x $88488)
>
>
> On top of that, a 128k stream using the latest QuickTime, Real or WMP
> codec is approximately equal to the best you can squeeze out of Flash
> at 256k, so our bandwidth costs also double.
>
> This is why so many of us are complaining about the license, Simon.
> It's even worse when you're looking at Real and Quicktime's free
> offerings. Do you honestly think AS and SO are worth $164k+? 
> 
>
>
> AS is nice. BUT, QuickTime has hooks for AppleScript and C modules.
> Real/Helix has the full source and there are lots of plug-ins that
> the community has developed, or you can write your own. Windows Media
> has .NET integration, as well as VB interfaces. AS isn't a bad
> language, but I really don't think it's being used in a way that
> works well for server-side logic. We've developed applications on all
> of them, I don't really find what FCS has to offer any different.
>
> Shared Objects are interesting, but only proprietary to Flash because
> Macromedia chooses to make them so. The same code can be implemented
> with XML Sockets and any application server back end.
>
> I mean no disrespect to the engineers at Macromedia who spend their
> time here, but: The whole FCS product is nice, but not nearly worth
> the price they're charging. I don't mind paying them for the product,
> but when you're running up against "Free" and "comes with your
> server", you can't price yourself out of most company's price range.
>
> If we could buy unlimited perpetual per-server licenses for... even
> matching the highest other price I have up there, we'd buy them by
> the dozen. As it is now, we tried one project with it, found it
> usable, but way more expensive than practical.
>
> I think Macromedia/Adobe needs to get on the "We'd like some money
> rather than none" bandwagon. 
>
>
>
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