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    SO bug causing crash  
Edward Chan


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-18-05 10:45 PM

Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are facing.

But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't
serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I
don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.

I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,
while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find
it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a
huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said
that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look
into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context
on it. =20

But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to
say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you,
the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list
to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you
want an official response, you should be going thru the proper
Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take it
up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions and
problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it is not
in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not required to be
a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem reported on
this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this list often
on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us, even in the
wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one of you
before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual respect.
We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our
fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to
in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the same,
don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd like to
apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a moment of
anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the flaming end
here.

Regards,
Ed


> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org=
20
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gman
e.org] On Behalf Of JesterXL
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
>=20 
> I'm showing
> the bandwidth maxed out at 40mb and the connections at ~8400.=20
> Right now, this is all running on a single (rather=20
> impressive) server, becuse load balancing on 1.5 is=20
> impossible. I say it's impossible because I happen to know=20
> that there is a known bug in remote shared objects that=20
> prevents you from actually implementing a usable load=20
> balancing solution. The comm server service crashes under any=20
> real load, effectively negating the purpose of load=20
> balancing. Of course the bug was immediately addressed in=20
> FMS, but no patch was released for 1.5, to which my response=20
> was "That's fine, I'll just make them upgrade". Now that's no=20
> longer an option. 
>=20 
> Because I need load balancing, and since they apparently=20
> still don't have proxied SOs working properly, the only way=20
> to do it is with the Origin/Edge setup. 
>=20 
>  It was discussed on this list just a couple months ago. It's=20
> a bug in the constructor for proxied shared objects that=20
> crashes the comm server service. It's a problem if you want=20
> your comm server to have more than about
> 12 hours of uptime. Under a load, our servers would crash=20
> every few minutes.
>=20
>     The part that irritates me about this bug is that when it=20
> was identified, it was immediately fixed in FMS2, but FCS1.5=20
> was not patched, essentially saying to us "if you want load=20
> balancing, upgrade to FMS", which would be fine if it=20
> wouldn't cost us 25 times as much to do the same thing.
> Forcing us to upgrade at a 2500% cost increase to address a=20
> known bug in their software is just wrong. 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
> To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@p
ublic.gmane.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
>=20
>=20
> Sorry, but I still don't understand what the problem is?  How are you
> doing the load balancing?  And what exactly are you doing that is
> causing FCS to crash?  Do you mean you have multiple FCS=20
> servers behind
> a load balancer, and when the load balancer sends a=20
> connection to one of
> the FCS servers, it crashes?
>=20
> Ed
>=20 
> lazy to go 
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/f...loads_updaters. 
=3D-----------------------------------------------------------[vbcol=seagreen] 
=3D-----------------------------------------------------------[vbcol=seagreen] 
>=20
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>=20
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailma...fo/flashcomm=20
>=20
>=20
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>=20

=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm






[ Post a follow-up to this message ]



    Re: SO bug causing crash  
JesterXL


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-18-05 10:45 PM

We appreciate you taking your own personal &
non-required-but-voluntary-given-job time being here reading & answering
questions!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pub
lic.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash


Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are facing.

But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't
serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I
don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.

I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,
while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find
it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a
huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said
that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look
into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context
on it.

But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to
say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you,
the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list
to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you
want an official response, you should be going thru the proper
Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take it
up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions and
problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it is not
in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not required to be
a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem reported on
this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this list often
on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us, even in the
wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one of you
before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual respect.
We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our
fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to
in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the same,
don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd like to
apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a moment of
anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the flaming end
here.

Regards,
Ed


> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gman
e.org] On Behalf Of JesterXL
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
> 
> I'm showing
> the bandwidth maxed out at 40mb and the connections at ~8400.
> Right now, this is all running on a single (rather
> impressive) server, becuse load balancing on 1.5 is
> impossible. I say it's impossible because I happen to know
> that there is a known bug in remote shared objects that
> prevents you from actually implementing a usable load
> balancing solution. The comm server service crashes under any
> real load, effectively negating the purpose of load
> balancing. Of course the bug was immediately addressed in
> FMS, but no patch was released for 1.5, to which my response
> was "That's fine, I'll just make them upgrade". Now that's no
> longer an option. 
> 
> Because I need load balancing, and since they apparently
> still don't have proxied SOs working properly, the only way
> to do it is with the Origin/Edge setup. 
> 
>  It was discussed on this list just a couple months ago. It's
> a bug in the constructor for proxied shared objects that
> crashes the comm server service. It's a problem if you want
> your comm server to have more than about
> 12 hours of uptime. Under a load, our servers would crash
> every few minutes.
>
>     The part that irritates me about this bug is that when it
> was identified, it was immediately fixed in FMS2, but FCS1.5
> was not patched, essentially saying to us "if you want load
> balancing, upgrade to FMS", which would be fine if it
> wouldn't cost us 25 times as much to do the same thing.
> Forcing us to upgrade at a 2500% cost increase to address a
> known bug in their software is just wrong. 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
> To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@p
ublic.gmane.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
>
>
> Sorry, but I still don't understand what the problem is?  How are you
> doing the load balancing?  And what exactly are you doing that is
> causing FCS to crash?  Do you mean you have multiple FCS
> servers behind
> a load balancer, and when the load balancer sends a
> connection to one of
> the FCS servers, it crashes?
>
> Ed
> 
> lazy to go 
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/f...loads_updaters. 
>
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>

Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm


=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm






[ Post a follow-up to this message ]



    RE: SO bug causing crash  
Jim Phelan


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-18-05 10:45 PM

Ditto. You guys are awesome and FMS 2 really exhibits the hard work you've
been doing. Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of JesterXL
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:31 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash

We appreciate you taking your own personal &
non-required-but-voluntary-given-job time being here reading & answering
questions!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pub
lic.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash


Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are facing.

But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't
serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I
don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.

I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,
while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find
it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a
huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said
that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look
into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context
on it.

But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to
say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you,
the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list
to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you
want an official response, you should be going thru the proper
Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take it
up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions and
problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it is not
in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not required to be
a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem reported on
this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this list often
on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us, even in the
wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one of you
before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual respect.
We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our
fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to
in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the same,
don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd like to
apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a moment of
anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the flaming end
here.

Regards,
Ed


> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gman
e.org] On Behalf Of JesterXL
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
> 
> I'm showing
> the bandwidth maxed out at 40mb and the connections at ~8400.
> Right now, this is all running on a single (rather
> impressive) server, becuse load balancing on 1.5 is
> impossible. I say it's impossible because I happen to know
> that there is a known bug in remote shared objects that
> prevents you from actually implementing a usable load
> balancing solution. The comm server service crashes under any
> real load, effectively negating the purpose of load
> balancing. Of course the bug was immediately addressed in
> FMS, but no patch was released for 1.5, to which my response
> was "That's fine, I'll just make them upgrade". Now that's no
> longer an option. 
> 
> Because I need load balancing, and since they apparently
> still don't have proxied SOs working properly, the only way
> to do it is with the Origin/Edge setup. 
> 
>  It was discussed on this list just a couple months ago. It's
> a bug in the constructor for proxied shared objects that
> crashes the comm server service. It's a problem if you want
> your comm server to have more than about
> 12 hours of uptime. Under a load, our servers would crash
> every few minutes.
>
>     The part that irritates me about this bug is that when it
> was identified, it was immediately fixed in FMS2, but FCS1.5
> was not patched, essentially saying to us "if you want load
> balancing, upgrade to FMS", which would be fine if it
> wouldn't cost us 25 times as much to do the same thing.
> Forcing us to upgrade at a 2500% cost increase to address a
> known bug in their software is just wrong. 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
> To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@p
ublic.gmane.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
>
>
> Sorry, but I still don't understand what the problem is?  How are you
> doing the load balancing?  And what exactly are you doing that is
> causing FCS to crash?  Do you mean you have multiple FCS
> servers behind
> a load balancer, and when the load balancer sends a
> connection to one of
> the FCS servers, it crashes?
>
> Ed
> 
> lazy to go 
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/f...loads_updaters. 
>
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>

Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm


=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm


=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm






[ Post a follow-up to this message ]



    Re: SO bug causing crash  
Simon Skrødal


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-21-05 01:45 AM

I appreciate that MM staff sometimes visit the FlashComm list on their ow=
n
time - good on you for showing some interest in what ways developers
utilises your blood, sweat and tears. From what I can tell, MM generally
does not have much of an idea what people use FCS for, and admittedly, I =
do
find it strange that you are not encouraged to take more part in this
community during work hours...!

However busy you must be; in hindsight you *must* have been better off
listening to your clients and their needs *before* building a product and=
a
licensing scheme.

As much as you think we have to be grateful that you listen to us at all,=
I
think you have to admit that we spend a great deal of *our* time in order=
to
get a little respect for the good work we do in pushing MMs products. You=
r
original licensing scheme for FMS is somewhat like a reversed software
piracy, ripping off your loyal client base. You MUST know that we do LOVE
YOU... why else would we make such a fuss about all this..?

But I think a lot of people are getting tired now... tired to the extent
that they are looking around for something else. Maybe that's why you see=
m
to listen to us a little more now? Licensing issues have always been the
thick red line on this list - archives prove that, but we've never been
given much attention before. Could it be that FMS sales are not what you
expected?

Surely, this list must be the one of the most active FCS/FMS lists availa=
ble
in the world, and I am sure it has contributed to identifying numerous
ideas/bugs/shortcomings, which in turn has driven further development of
your product. While it is appreciated, I don't see why we should be
overwhelmed by MM staff's initiative to be actively involved on this list=
.
The only initiative I see now, is from a company that's not selling as mu=
ch
as hoped on a new product.

Sick, twisted and bitter... ? A little maybe. Sick of being screwed aroun=
d,
with arms twisted around our backs because we decided to subscribe to the
FCS product in the first place, and... well I guess bitterness is the
bi-product.

I know a lot of people are in sh*t creek these days, but at least we have=
a
paddle. I sincerely feel for those of you who don't, and hope that MM wil=
l
eventually do things right by you.

This is not a personal attack on Ed or Steven - I don't think it's their
fault that their amazing product is not given a better distribution polic=
y.

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pub
lic.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:48 AM
Subject: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash


Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are facing.

But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't
serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I
don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.

I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,
while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find
it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a
huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said
that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look
into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context
on it.

But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to
say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you,
the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list
to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you
want an official response, you should be going thru the proper
Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take it
up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions and
problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it is not
in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not required to be
a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem reported on
this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this list often
on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us, even in the
wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one of you
before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual respect.
We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our
fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to
in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the same,
don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd like to
apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a moment of
anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the flaming end
here.

Regards,
Ed


> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gman
e.org] On Behalf Of JesterXL
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
> 
> I'm showing
> the bandwidth maxed out at 40mb and the connections at ~8400.
> Right now, this is all running on a single (rather
> impressive) server, becuse load balancing on 1.5 is
> impossible. I say it's impossible because I happen to know
> that there is a known bug in remote shared objects that
> prevents you from actually implementing a usable load
> balancing solution. The comm server service crashes under any
> real load, effectively negating the purpose of load
> balancing. Of course the bug was immediately addressed in
> FMS, but no patch was released for 1.5, to which my response
> was "That's fine, I'll just make them upgrade". Now that's no
> longer an option. 
> 
> Because I need load balancing, and since they apparently
> still don't have proxied SOs working properly, the only way
> to do it is with the Origin/Edge setup. 
> 
>  It was discussed on this list just a couple months ago. It's
> a bug in the constructor for proxied shared objects that
> crashes the comm server service. It's a problem if you want
> your comm server to have more than about
> 12 hours of uptime. Under a load, our servers would crash
> every few minutes.
>
>     The part that irritates me about this bug is that when it
> was identified, it was immediately fixed in FMS2, but FCS1.5
> was not patched, essentially saying to us "if you want load
> balancing, upgrade to FMS", which would be fine if it
> wouldn't cost us 25 times as much to do the same thing.
> Forcing us to upgrade at a 2500% cost increase to address a
> known bug in their software is just wrong. 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
> To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@p
ublic.gmane.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
>
>
> Sorry, but I still don't understand what the problem is?  How are you
> doing the load balancing?  And what exactly are you doing that is
> causing FCS to crash?  Do you mean you have multiple FCS
> servers behind
> a load balancer, and when the load balancer sends a
> connection to one of
> the FCS servers, it crashes?
>
> Ed
> 
> lazy to go 
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/f...loads_updaters. 
-[vbcol=seagreen] 
-[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
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>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>

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    RE: SO bug causing crash  
Graeme Bull


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-21-05 01:45 AM

good post. I too was surprised by Ed's post of "you should be grateful =
we
help you on this list"...

-Graeme=20

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of Simon =
Skrodal
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:35 AM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash

I appreciate that MM staff sometimes visit the FlashComm list on their =
own
time - good on you for showing some interest in what ways developers
utilises your blood, sweat and tears. From what I can tell, MM generally
does not have much of an idea what people use FCS for, and admittedly, I =
do
find it strange that you are not encouraged to take more part in this
community during work hours...!

However busy you must be; in hindsight you *must* have been better off
listening to your clients and their needs *before* building a product =
and a
licensing scheme.

As much as you think we have to be grateful that you listen to us at =
all, I
think you have to admit that we spend a great deal of *our* time in =
order to
get a little respect for the good work we do in pushing MMs products. =
Your
original licensing scheme for FMS is somewhat like a reversed software
piracy, ripping off your loyal client base. You MUST know that we do =
LOVE
YOU... why else would we make such a fuss about all this..?

But I think a lot of people are getting tired now... tired to the extent
that they are looking around for something else. Maybe that's why you =
seem
to listen to us a little more now? Licensing issues have always been the
thick red line on this list - archives prove that, but we've never been
given much attention before. Could it be that FMS sales are not what you
expected?

Surely, this list must be the one of the most active FCS/FMS lists =
available
in the world, and I am sure it has contributed to identifying numerous
ideas/bugs/shortcomings, which in turn has driven further development of
your product. While it is appreciated, I don't see why we should be
overwhelmed by MM staff's initiative to be actively involved on this =
list.
The only initiative I see now, is from a company that's not selling as =
much
as hoped on a new product.

Sick, twisted and bitter... ? A little maybe. Sick of being screwed =
around,
with arms twisted around our backs because we decided to subscribe to =
the
FCS product in the first place, and... well I guess bitterness is the
bi-product.

I know a lot of people are in sh*t creek these days, but at least we =
have a
paddle. I sincerely feel for those of you who don't, and hope that MM =
will
eventually do things right by you.

This is not a personal attack on Ed or Steven - I don't think it's their
fault that their amazing product is not given a better distribution =
policy.

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pub
lic.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:48 AM
Subject: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash


Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are facing.

But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't
serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I
don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.

I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,
while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find
it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a
huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said
that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look
into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context
on it.

But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to
say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you,
the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list
to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you
want an official response, you should be going thru the proper
Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take it
up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions and
problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it is not
in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not required to be
a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem reported on
this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this list often
on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us, even in the
wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one of you
before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual respect.
We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our
fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to
in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the same,
don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd like to
apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a moment of
anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the flaming end
here.

Regards,
Ed


> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gman
e.org] On Behalf Of JesterXL
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: FlashComm Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
> 
> I'm showing
> the bandwidth maxed out at 40mb and the connections at ~8400.
> Right now, this is all running on a single (rather
> impressive) server, becuse load balancing on 1.5 is
> impossible. I say it's impossible because I happen to know
> that there is a known bug in remote shared objects that
> prevents you from actually implementing a usable load
> balancing solution. The comm server service crashes under any
> real load, effectively negating the purpose of load
> balancing. Of course the bug was immediately addressed in
> FMS, but no patch was released for 1.5, to which my response
> was "That's fine, I'll just make them upgrade". Now that's no
> longer an option. 
> 
> Because I need load balancing, and since they apparently
> still don't have proxied SOs working properly, the only way
> to do it is with the Origin/Edge setup. 
> 
>  It was discussed on this list just a couple months ago. It's
> a bug in the constructor for proxied shared objects that
> crashes the comm server service. It's a problem if you want
> your comm server to have more than about
> 12 hours of uptime. Under a load, our servers would crash
> every few minutes.
>
>     The part that irritates me about this bug is that when it
> was identified, it was immediately fixed in FMS2, but FCS1.5
> was not patched, essentially saying to us "if you want load
> balancing, upgrade to FMS", which would be fine if it
> wouldn't cost us 25 times as much to do the same thing.
> Forcing us to upgrade at a 2500% cost increase to address a
> known bug in their software is just wrong. 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
> To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@p
ublic.gmane.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] updater 3 question
>
>
> Sorry, but I still don't understand what the problem is?  How are you
> doing the load balancing?  And what exactly are you doing that is
> causing FCS to crash?  Do you mean you have multiple FCS
> servers behind
> a load balancer, and when the load balancer sends a
> connection to one of
> the FCS servers, it crashes?
>
> Ed
> 
> lazy to go 
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/f...loads_updaters. 
=3D-----------------------------------------------------------[vbcol=seagreen] 
=3D-----------------------------------------------------------[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
> Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>

=3D---------------------------------------------------------
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=3D---------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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=3D-----------------------------------------------------------
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=3D-----------------------------------------------------------

To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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=-----------------------------------------------------------
Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
=-----------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: SO bug causing crash  
Brian Lesser


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-21-05 07:45 AM

Geez guys, Ed was frustrated after being personally attacked. After all=20
the unpaid time he's so obviously spent on this list I'm willing to cut=20
the guy a huge amount of slack when he reacts to being told to kiss=20
Jayson=92s XXX. Anyway, in my little mind there is a big difference=20
between the contributions of Macromedia's engineers and strategic and=20
market planning at Macromedia. This list is unique in large measure=20
because Macromedia developers post freely here. Without them this list=20
would not be the same. When I think of their restraint in the past and=20
how helpful they=92ve been I think they should receive a uniformly warm=20
welcome. So, yeah, I am personally really grateful to them. They took=20
the time to help me so I=92m more than happy to say thanks and if the=20
opportunity arises, to try to help them a little in return.

I think it is important to make a distinction between Macromedia's=20
strategic and market planning and the contribution of its Engineers on=20
this list. If you want to be angry then the focus of your anger=20
regarding the recent licensing fiasco belongs elsewhere in Macromedia. I=20
know that for a short time it looked like Macromedia was going to make=20
it impossible for most of us to do business. You SHOULD re-evaluate=20
Macromedia as a reliable vendor after an event that. You SHOULD question=20
if Macromedia can afford to build FMS as a platform you can rely on. You=20
should question the lack of screen sharing, echo cancellation, and live=20
On2 encoding options. You should ask why Breeze has a great set of=20
communication components/Pods and FMS has absolutely nothing new in that=20
regard. You should ask yourself if Macromedia can afford to care about=20
the FMS market segment you represent. You really should look at=20
alternatives - especially new and emerging ones. You should look at your=20
buisness and ask if you can/should migrate away from FMS or should stick=20
with it. But personally, I'm trying not to conflate my visceral reaction=20
to Macromedia's licensing with Ed=92s reaction to Jayson=92s remarks.

Yours truly,

-Brian



Graeme Bull wrote:

>good post. I too was surprised by Ed's post of "you should be grateful w=
e
>help you on this list"...
>
>-Graeme=20
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On
 Behalf Of Simon Skro=
dal
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:35 AM
>To: FlashComm Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash
>
>I appreciate that MM staff sometimes visit the FlashComm list on their o=
wn
>time - good on you for showing some interest in what ways developers
>utilises your blood, sweat and tears. From what I can tell, MM generally
>does not have much of an idea what people use FCS for, and admittedly, I=
do
>find it strange that you are not encouraged to take more part in this
>community during work hours...!
>
>However busy you must be; in hindsight you *must* have been better off
>listening to your clients and their needs *before* building a product an=
d a
>licensing scheme.
>
>As much as you think we have to be grateful that you listen to us at all=
, I
>think you have to admit that we spend a great deal of *our* time in orde=
r to
>get a little respect for the good work we do in pushing MMs products. Yo=
ur
>original licensing scheme for FMS is somewhat like a reversed software
>piracy, ripping off your loyal client base. You MUST know that we do LOV=
E
>YOU... why else would we make such a fuss about all this..?
>
>But I think a lot of people are getting tired now... tired to the extent
>that they are looking around for something else. Maybe that's why you se=
em
>to listen to us a little more now? Licensing issues have always been the
>thick red line on this list - archives prove that, but we've never been
>given much attention before. Could it be that FMS sales are not what you
>expected?
>
>Surely, this list must be the one of the most active FCS/FMS lists avail=
able
>in the world, and I am sure it has contributed to identifying numerous
>ideas/bugs/shortcomings, which in turn has driven further development of
>your product. While it is appreciated, I don't see why we should be
>overwhelmed by MM staff's initiative to be actively involved on this lis=
t.
>The only initiative I see now, is from a company that's not selling as m=
uch
>as hoped on a new product.
>
>Sick, twisted and bitter... ? A little maybe. Sick of being screwed arou=
nd,
>with arms twisted around our backs because we decided to subscribe to th=
e
>FCS product in the first place, and... well I guess bitterness is the
>bi-product.
>
>I know a lot of people are in sh*t creek these days, but at least we hav=
e a
>paddle. I sincerely feel for those of you who don't, and hope that MM wi=
ll
>eventually do things right by you.
>
>This is not a personal attack on Ed or Steven - I don't think it's their
>fault that their amazing product is not given a better distribution poli=
cy.
>
>Kind regards,
>Simon Skr=F8dal
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pu
blic.gmane.org>
>Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:48 AM
>Subject: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash
>
>
>Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
>But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
>1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are facing.
>
>But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't
>serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I
>don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.
>
>I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,
>while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find
>it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a
>huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.
>
>I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said
>that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look
>into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context
>on it.
>
>But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to
>say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you,
>the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list
>to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you
>want an official response, you should be going thru the proper
>Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take it
>up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions and
>problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it is not
>in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not required to be
>a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem reported on
>this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this list often
>on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us, even in the
>wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one of you
>before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual respect.
>We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our
>fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to
>in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the same,
>don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd like to
>apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a moment of
>anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the flaming end
>here.
>
>Regards,
>Ed
>
>
> =20
> 
>
>=3D---------------------------------------------------------
>Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>=3D---------------------------------------------------------
>
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
>=3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>=3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>
>=3D---------------------------------------------------------
>Supported by Fig Leaf Software - http://www.figleaf.com
>=3D---------------------------------------------------------
>
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
> =20
>


--=20
 ________________________________________
______________________________
Brian Lesser
Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
Computing and Communications Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St.
Toronto, Ontario                   Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
M5B 2K3                            Fax: (416) 979-5220
Office: AB48D                      E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@pu
blic.gmane.org
(Enter through LB66)               Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
 ________________________________________
______________________________


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    RE: SO bug causing crash  
Graeme Bull


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-21-05 07:45 AM

ah, well, don't get me wrong. I'm very grateful that MM is quite =
supportive
in that sense. But I didn't tell him to go kiss Jayson's XXX, so in that
sense felt taken aback by the comments coming through.

Believe me, we are asking all those exact same questions.. it's almost
scary. If FMS continues on this road it is on.. I picture moving to a =
new
technology. We'll see how well MM can predict the future then and take =
it
from there.=20

-Graeme

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lesser [mailto:blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.o
rg]=20
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:08 PM
To: graeme.bull-lB/6vUJvybQOPmVbiNFCMNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org; FlashComm
 Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash

Geez guys, Ed was frustrated after being personally attacked. After all =
the
unpaid time he's so obviously spent on this list I'm willing to cut the =
guy
a huge amount of slack when he reacts to being told to kiss Jayson=92s =
XXX.
Anyway, in my little mind there is a big difference between the
contributions of Macromedia's engineers and strategic and market =
planning at
Macromedia. This list is unique in large measure because Macromedia
developers post freely here. Without them this list would not be the =
same.
When I think of their restraint in the past and how helpful they=92ve =
been I
think they should receive a uniformly warm welcome. So, yeah, I am
personally really grateful to them. They took the time to help me so =
I=92m
more than happy to say thanks and if the opportunity arises, to try to =
help
them a little in return.

I think it is important to make a distinction between Macromedia's =
strategic
and market planning and the contribution of its Engineers on this list. =
If
you want to be angry then the focus of your anger regarding the recent
licensing fiasco belongs elsewhere in Macromedia. I know that for a =
short
time it looked like Macromedia was going to make it impossible for most =
of
us to do business. You SHOULD re-evaluate Macromedia as a reliable =
vendor
after an event that. You SHOULD question if Macromedia can afford to =
build
FMS as a platform you can rely on. You should question the lack of =
screen
sharing, echo cancellation, and live
On2 encoding options. You should ask why Breeze has a great set of
communication components/Pods and FMS has absolutely nothing new in that
regard. You should ask yourself if Macromedia can afford to care about =
the
FMS market segment you represent. You really should look at alternatives =
-
especially new and emerging ones. You should look at your buisness and =
ask
if you can/should migrate away from FMS or should stick with it. But
personally, I'm trying not to conflate my visceral reaction to =
Macromedia's
licensing with Ed=92s reaction to Jayson=92s remarks.

Yours truly,

-Brian



Graeme Bull wrote:

>good post. I too was surprised by Ed's post of "you should be grateful=20
>we help you on this list"...
>
>-Graeme
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane
.org] On Behalf Of Simon=20
>Skrodal
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:35 AM
>To: FlashComm Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash
>
>I appreciate that MM staff sometimes visit the FlashComm list on their=20
>own time - good on you for showing some interest in what ways=20
>developers utilises your blood, sweat and tears. From what I can tell,=20
>MM generally does not have much of an idea what people use FCS for, and =

>admittedly, I do find it strange that you are not encouraged to take=20
>more part in this community during work hours...!
>
>However busy you must be; in hindsight you *must* have been better off=20
>listening to your clients and their needs *before* building a product=20
>and a licensing scheme.
>
>As much as you think we have to be grateful that you listen to us at=20
>all, I think you have to admit that we spend a great deal of *our* time =

>in order to get a little respect for the good work we do in pushing MMs =

>products. Your original licensing scheme for FMS is somewhat like a=20
>reversed software piracy, ripping off your loyal client base. You MUST=20
>know that we do LOVE YOU... why else would we make such a fuss about =
all
this..?
>
>But I think a lot of people are getting tired now... tired to the=20
>extent that they are looking around for something else. Maybe that's=20
>why you seem to listen to us a little more now? Licensing issues have=20
>always been the thick red line on this list - archives prove that, but=20
>we've never been given much attention before. Could it be that FMS=20
>sales are not what you expected?
>
>Surely, this list must be the one of the most active FCS/FMS lists=20
>available in the world, and I am sure it has contributed to identifying =

>numerous ideas/bugs/shortcomings, which in turn has driven further=20
>development of your product. While it is appreciated, I don't see why=20
>we should be overwhelmed by MM staff's initiative to be actively =
involved
on this list.
>The only initiative I see now, is from a company that's not selling as=20
>much as hoped on a new product.
>
>Sick, twisted and bitter... ? A little maybe. Sick of being screwed=20
>around, with arms twisted around our backs because we decided to=20
>subscribe to the FCS product in the first place, and... well I guess=20
>bitterness is the bi-product.
>
>I know a lot of people are in sh*t creek these days, but at least we=20
>have a paddle. I sincerely feel for those of you who don't, and hope=20
>that MM will eventually do things right by you.
>
>This is not a personal attack on Ed or Steven - I don't think it's=20
>their fault that their amazing product is not given a better =
distribution
policy.
>
>Kind regards,
>Simon Skr=F8dal
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Edward Chan" <echan-14osZcCZf762oZ/6fjIToQ@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pu
blic.gmane.org>
>Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:48 AM
>Subject: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash
>
>
>Getting back to business, I don't know which bug you're referring to.
>But there was a shared object bug fixed in the few builds between
>1.5.2r138 and 141.  Not sure if it addresses the problem you are =
facing.
>
>But if memory serves me, and I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't =

>serve me well, but I believe this bug could result in a crash.  But I=20
>don't believe it is specific to proxied shared objects.
>
>I'm not sure if this addresses your problem; I hope it does.  Also,=20
>while I don't doubt there are bugs in proxied shared objects, I do find =

>it hard to believe they are not usable.  I know Justin Watkins has a=20
>huge distributed setup built using 1.5.2 and proxied streams and SO's.
>
>I'm sure that's not the answer you want.  But somebody else had said=20
>that Asa was the point of contact on this issue.  So I'll let him look=20
>into it when he gets back from vacation since he may have some context=20
>on it.
>
>But one last point, and I promise this will be the last thing I have to =

>say on the matter.  This list is a great source of information for you, =

>the FCS/FMS developers, as well as for us.  We gladly monitor this list =

>to help you guys out when possible.  But for any real issues, if you=20
>want an official response, you should be going thru the proper=20
>Macromedia support channels.  If that is not working, you should take=20
>it up with Macromedia support.  We do our best to respond to questions=20
>and problems that are reported on this list.  But make no mistake, it=20
>is not in our job description to do so, and we are certainly not=20
>required to be a slave to this list and to have every issue and problem =

>reported on this list burned into memory.  Each one of us monitors this =

>list often on our own time and you often get speedy responses from us,=20
>even in the wee hours of the night.  I've never mouthed off to any one=20
>of you before, and as Pritham said, we would expect the same mutual
respect.
>We like to say that no question is a dumb one, but we've also had our=20
>fair share of not so intelligent questions, which we gladly respond to=20
>in a non-condescending and respectful manner.  If you can't do the=20
>same, don't expect us to bend over backwards if you need help.  So I'd=20
>like to apologize to Jayson for calling him a prick.  It was said in a=20
>moment of anger.  So let's get back to business as usual and let the=20
>flaming end here.
>
>Regards,
>Ed
>
>
> =20
> 
[vbcol=seagreen] 
[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
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>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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> =20
>


--
 ________________________________________
______________________________
Brian Lesser
Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support Computing and
Communications Services Ryerson university 350 Victoria St.
Toronto, Ontario                   Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
M5B 2K3                            Fax: (416) 979-5220
Office: AB48D                      E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@pu
blic.gmane.org
(Enter through LB66)               Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
 ________________________________________
______________________________


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=-----------------------------------------------------------

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    RE: SO bug causing crash  
Jayson K Hanes


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-21-05 07:45 AM

Ya know.. I don't know why everyone is so focused on my XXX today, lol..
but I was speaking 3rd party in that line that's gotten this attention.

"our asses"

Not... well ya.. anyways.. they set the clock .. we'll know "where's the
beef" by um.. sometime before what.. Valentines?

-J



> -----Original Message-----
> From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org 
[mailto:flashcomm-
> bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Gr
aeme Bull
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:38 PM
> To: 'FlashComm Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash

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    Re: SO bug causing crash  
Simon Skrødal


View Ip Address Report This Message To A Moderator Edit/Delete Message


 
11-21-05 07:45 AM

Dear Brian,

Thanks for your input, although it has got me a little worried you might
have mis-interpreted my views.

Having re-read my post, I maintain that I paid tribute to Ed and his kind=
,
and I certainly pointed out that my views are related to MMs way of runni=
ng
a business, NOT the developers.

I suppose I have come to realise that it is because of good folks like Ed
and Steven that MM manages to keep the, dare I say illusion of, good
dialogue with its user base, especially since it does not seem to be
encouraged by MM at all.

As a customer, to hear from MMs own developers how little the company
actually knows about the use of their own products is pretty discouraging=
,
but it explains a lot about their distribution policy. All this time we h=
ave
been paying through our noses because MM never really knew what their
customers tried to achieve with FCS...

To add insult to injury, they now force (and I say *force* since they are=
no
longer selling FCS licences) the FMS to their clients with limitations (b=
w &
cc) pretty much opposite to what was enforced in FCS. How does that make
sense?

MM developers, please do not take this the wrong way, but forgive me for =
not
being the first to bow my head in awe now that we are finally being heard
(sort of) due to a lack of sales from your end. I respect your work, but =
I
am not sure I respect the decision makers. Getting into a dialogue with M=
M
about licensing is so unlikely that I think most of us on this list are
happy with anything you give us. Someone on this list noted we have been
reduced to beggars, and I for one can certainly identify with that. A lit=
tle
humiliating, in fact.

We bought a couple of FCS licenses earlier this year, and AFAIK there is =
no
upgrade discount available for FMS. Not having enjoyed much milage out of
the product yet, we are already forced to fork out for what seems to be
another rotten deal. Well, in the same way we shouldn't "expect [MM
developers] to bend over backwards if [we] need help", don't expect us t
o
bend over and pay ridicolous money for your product, nor waste any more t=
ime
and money on tracking down bugs and shortcomings in your product, which, =
by
the way, we have all been doing for free.

I do not think it is just the MM developers that are frustrated, and I
certainly don't think it's just the MM developers who spend unpaid time
here, so how about a big thank you to everyone who contribute to making t=
his
list a great resource for fellow developers, and an eye-opener for Macrod=
obe
;)

When it comes to Jayson, well I suppose he just enjoys his right to free
speech, however irrelevant, unintelligent and childish that speech is -
certainly nothing to take offence to.

To finish off, please let me emphasise that I am not going after Ed or an=
y
other developer (not even Jayson). I am simply going after the corporatio=
n,
that's all.

"These are my principles; if you don't like them, I've got others.
This is my opinion, if you don't agree, I've got big brothers..."

Kind regards,
Simon Skr=F8dal


----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Brian Lesser" <blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
To: <graeme.bull-lB/6vUJvybQOPmVbiNFCMNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>; "FlashC
omm Mailing List"
<flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] SO bug causing crash


> Geez guys, Ed was frustrated after being personally attacked. After all
> the unpaid time he's so obviously spent on this list I'm willing to cut
> the guy a huge amount of slack when he reacts to being told to kiss
> Jayson=92s XXX. Anyway, in my little mind there is a big difference
> between the contributions of Macromedia's engineers and strategic and
> market planning at Macromedia. This list is unique in large measure
> because Macromedia developers post freely here. Without them this list
> would not be the same. When I think of their restraint in the past and
> how helpful they=92ve been I think they should receive a uniformly warm
> welcome. So, yeah, I am personally really grateful to them. They took
> the time to help me so I=92m more than happy to say thanks and if the
> opportunity arises, to try to help them a little in return.
>
> I think it is important to make a distinction between Macromedia's
> strategic and market planning and the contribution of its Engineers on
> this list. If you want to be angry then the focus of your anger
> regarding the recent licensing fiasco belongs elsewhere in Macromedia. =
I
> know that for a short time it looked like Macromedia was going to make
> it impossible for most of us to do business. You SHOULD re-evaluate
> Macromedia as a reliable vendor after an event that. You SHOULD questio=
n
> if Macromedia can afford to build FMS as a platform you can rely on. Yo=
u
> should question the lack of screen sharing, echo cancellation, and live
> On2 encoding options. You should ask why Breeze has a great set of
> communication components/Pods and FMS has absolutely nothing new in tha=
t
> regard. You should ask yourself if Macromedia can afford to care about
> the FMS market segment you represent. You really should look at
> alternatives - especially new and emerging ones. You should look at you=
r
> buisness and ask if you can/should migrate away from FMS or should stic=
k
> with it. But personally, I'm trying not to conflate my visceral reactio=
n
> to Macromedia's licensing with Ed=92s reaction to Jayson=92s remarks.
>
> Yours truly,
>
> -Brian
>
>
>
> Graeme Bull wrote:
> 
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>
>
> --=20
>  ________________________________________
______________________________
> Brian Lesser
> Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support
> Computing and Communications Services
> Ryerson University
> 350 Victoria St.
> Toronto, Ontario                   Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835
> M5B 2K3                            Fax: (416) 979-5220
> Office: AB48D                      E-mail: blesser-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@
public.gmane.org
> (Enter through LB66)               Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser
>  ________________________________________
______________________________
>
>
> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
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> =3D-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>


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    RE: SO bug causing crash  
Edward Chan