the site just started, visit and post your issues

www.unixtalk.info

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On 11 Apr 2006 16:29:17 -0700, admin@unixtalk.info <admin@unixtalk.info> wrote:
> the site just started, visit and post your issues

Can you give me a compelling reason why I'd post on a website that may
go *whiff* at any moment, when I could post here and know I can always
find it?

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In comp.unix.admin Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net>:
> On 11 Apr 2006 16:29:17 -0700, admin@unixtalk.info <admin@unixtalk.info> w
rote: 
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Can you give me a compelling reason why I'd post on a website that may
> go *whiff* at any moment, when I could post here and know I can always
> find it?

Seems easy enough:

The OP:
- Uses G/2 from doze
- Has probably never heard about usenet
- Doesn't care about it anyway
- Is IT-professional

--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | PERL -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 300: Digital Manipulator exceeding velocity
parameters

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that is true, we are it professionals, and we do deal with unix issues
every day.
we are unix admin support, team that is trying to provide a free site
for people to get answers to there issues, and yes i do know about
other news groups and forums.
i'm not trying to get you to pay for any of the service...it's free and
you'll get an answer from someone who deals with unix problems every
day,


Michael Heiming wrote:
> In comp.unix.admin Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net>: 
> 
>
> Seems easy enough:
>
> The OP:
> - Uses G/2 from doze
> - Has probably never heard about usenet
> - Doesn't care about it anyway
> - Is IT-professional
>
> --
> Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
> mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | PERL -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
> #bofh excuse 300: Digital Manipulator exceeding velocity
> parameters

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On 12 Apr 2006 05:56:41 -0700, admin@unixtalk.info <admin@unixtalk.info> wrote:
> that is true, we are it professionals, and we do deal with unix issues
> every day.

Odd that your domain doesn't seem to resolve.

> we are unix admin support, team that is trying to provide a free site
> for people to get answers to there issues, and yes i do know about
> other news groups and forums.

And what does your forum offer me that this one does not?  By the way,
your shift key seems not to work.  In a field where precision matters,
that sort of thing is hard not to notice.

> i'm not trying to get you to pay for any of the service...it's free and
> you'll get an answer from someone who deals with unix problems every
> day,

What does that forum offer that this one does not?  It sounds like you
have a "solution" in search of a problem.

Next we'll take up "Top-posting: why it's bad".

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Begin  <1144846601.398451.101540@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
On 2006-04-12, admin@unixtalk.info <admin@unixtalk.info> wrote:
> that is true, we are it professionals, and we do deal with unix issues
> every day.

Good to know. From your posts I'd never have gathered.

You still haven't given a compelling reason why your brand spanking
shiny new site would be more desirable to use than, say, USENET, except
by implying that it's just the thing for people who somehow will not or
can not write a proper[1] and readable posting.


[1] In netiquette context. See also RFC1855.

--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.

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Dave (from the UK) wrote:
> admin@unixtalk.info wrote:
> 

Go easy on the professional bit.  You top-posted, failed to quote
context, typed in all lower case, never answered the questions
put to you.
[vbcol=seagreen] 

Which is a nice thing to do *if* you can generate enough traffic
to it to generate some amount of brand name recognition.
Remember, since UseNet posts have been archived for going
on 3 decades you'll need to have some sort of funding to be
able to archive forever.
[vbcol=seagreen] 

See my quip on the professional bit.
[vbcol=seagreen] 

Okay, but on this newsgroup you'll get answers from folks
with decades of experience doing so, and there's the fact
that the number of lurkers is large.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> But what does it offer than a newsgroup does not?

I'll offer one - moderation.  Web fora are trivially moderated.
Since CUA is not flooded with trolls it's a point without
value in this particular instance.  Funny how folks don't
want to flood a group whose members run their machines ...

> Most of these sites start free, then you get ads all over the place. I sus
pect
> if there were as many posts/day as on the UNIX newsgroups you would need t
o find
> a way of financing it, or would be tempted by offers of finance that would
 mean
> ads on the pages.

Given that I post through Google like the OP, this is not
a point that bothers me.  As long as none of the ads are
ever pop-ups and none ever contain animation or audio,
it won't bother me.  Sometimes I ignore banner ads or
whatever the ones at the edge of the view are currently
called, sometimes I glance at them, but they don't
happen to bother my.  YMMV and I'm aware my opinion
is not in the majority on this.

> Tying "unix forum" into Google and I get 44,700,000 hits. There are loads 
of
> UNIX forums out there.

So the question becomes how its traffic beats the others,
and demonstrating professionalism helps with that.

> For me at least, newsgroups beat any of these forums. So  like Dave Hinz, 
I'll
> be staying on the newsgroups for the forseable future.
>
> However, if you have a *compelling* argument for why we should use your fo
rum,
> please let me know. I'm not too stubborn to change if there is a better
> alternative, but I am just not convinced there is at this point.

And so this thread should be viewed as a teaching tool -

If you wanted to form a forum that managed to beat
comp.unix.admin, just how would you go about it?

The annual SAGE LISA conference did so by going the in-person
route, but it's annual cycle is conducive to long term planning,
process improvement, best practices and such.  That means it
managed to acheive its value by *not* competing with
comp.unix.admin.

The HPUX web site contains user forums that seem to give
the best support available in that vendor-specific realm.  No
newsgroup has the HPUX experts that HP formums have.
One advantage they have is they are manufacturer driven.
Another is they have full time staff with access to the OS
source code.  That means they managed to acheive its
value by having unlimited funding when compared to the
completely unfunded comp.unix.admin.

There are consulting companies that maintain internal
knowledgebases that beat comp.unix.admin.  Every single
company with such an internal knowledgebase restricts
its access to their own consultants because the additional
value of knowledgebase access gives their employees a
competitive edge.  The companies with the best ones give
public praise to the top contributors, include contributions to
the internal knowledge base into bonus calculations.  So
again like the HP forums the way to beat comp.unix.admin
is with money, experience in the real world, full time staff.

Is it a good idea to build a forum?  Yes.  The experience
doing the web work is valuable in and of itself.  Can there be
a reasonable expectation that it can compete with CUA?
Not really.  If the viewpoint is that the regulars on CUA
dominate, that same trend will happen on the new forum.
Only the names will change.  And that too is an experience
that has such value that it's worth doing just for that
experience.

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On 12 Apr 2006 08:06:17 -0700, admin@unixtalk.info <admin@unixtalk.info> wrote:
>
> wow, ..I'm just getting killed here.

No, we're trying to _help_ you understand.  And you are still
top-posting.  And unixtalk.info _still_ doesn't resolve.

> I'm not trying to beat comp.unix.admin, I'm just trying to offer
> you other solutions

To what problems?

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Hi Dave
www.unixtalk.info

i just tested it and it resolved fine, from my desk and other
co-workers desk.

try this link

http://www.unixtalk.info/

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wow, ..I'm just getting killed here.

it's just a post ...for people to take a look that's all, i didn't know
that i would get such a response.

I'm not trying to beat comp.unix.admin, I'm just trying to offer
you other solutions

And for how will I finance it, there is a million and one solution, but
it does not involve charging you for the site


And as for Doug's post I like it especially this part, as it's very
relevent

" The HPUX web site contains user forums that seem to give
the best support available in that vendor-specific realm.  No
newsgroup has the HPUX experts that HP formums have.
One advantage they have is they are manufacturer driven.
Another is they have full time staff with access to the OS
source code.  That means they managed to acheive its
value by having unlimited funding when compared to the
completely unfunded comp.unix.admin.
There are consulting companies that maintain internal
knowledgebases that beat comp.unix.admin.  Every single
company with such an internal knowledgebase restricts
its access to their own consultants because the additional
value of knowledgebase access gives their employees a
competitive edge.  The companies with the best ones give
public praise to the top contributors, include contributions to
the internal knowledge base into bonus calculations.  So
again like the HP forums the way to beat comp.unix.admin
is with money, experience in the real world, full time staff.
"

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