I realize that this question has been asked countless times but I just
can't find a definitive answer.

I recently read the following article about Linux and as a result I
tried out Debian.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3688964005.html

I've tried Linux several times but I keep going back to Windows (sigh),
not because I want to but because Linux always installs a bunch of
programs that I'll never use. I just hate having menus full of things
I'll never use.

When I read the article mentioned above, I found myself liking what I
saw in the screenshots...

-Translucent taskbar and start menus
-Kasbar
-Nero Linux (because of familiarity with what I'm used to in Windows)
-K3B (which I've never used before)
-Firefox & Thunderbird (or Seamonkey)
-OpenOffice 2.0
-XnView
-Okle or Xine (with appropriate codecs/decryption for DVD's and Divx/Xvid)
-Kaffeine or XMMS (for audio)
-Some kind of Network Neighbourhood (for access to my Windows machines)
-GIMP with Gimpshop hack
-Flash, Java, PDF reader
-Basic text editor
-Basic term
-Standard mpeg2 to Divx/Xvid converter
-Remote access software

These are the major programs that I'll ever use.

Does a Linux distro exist that just gives you the basics that you had
back in Windows XP?

I would like the ability to update or add new programs using Synaptic.

I've tried Puppy Linux and Damn Small Linux but they just didn't feel right.

I've read about something called Freespire that may give me what I want
but it may still be too cluttered with stuff I won't need.

Thanks in advance

Marc

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

User wrote:
> I've tried Linux several times but I keep going back to Windows (sigh),
> not because I want to but because Linux always installs a bunch of
> programs that I'll never use. I just hate having menus full of things
> I'll never use.
> Does a Linux distro exist that just gives you the basics that you had
> back in Windows XP?

Try doing a more customized installation of Debian.  Start by only
installing the base system.  That'll be quite lean - but likely more
lean than you want.  You can then use other programs/tools, such as
tasksel, to select and install sets of packages for types of stuff you
want to use and have (and dependencies of stuff you want/require).
You can also use aptitude and other tools for more fine-grained control
of what packages you do/don't want installed, or want to remove.
If you find stuff showing up on menus that are required for other
dependencies, but you don't want on the menus, you can change this on a
per-user or system-wide basis (e.g. get rid of or "hide" items you
don't want to appear on the menus).
references:
update-menus(1)
menufile(5)

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:26:55 -0400, User wrote:

> I realize that this question has been asked countless times but I just
> can't find a definitive answer.
>
> I recently read the following article about Linux and as a result I
> tried out Debian.
>
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3688964005.html
>
> I've tried Linux several times but I keep going back to Windows (sigh),
> not because I want to but because Linux always installs a bunch of
> programs that I'll never use. I just hate having menus full of things
> I'll never use.
>
>
That's funny... I just got a Windows XP laptop... Even *after* removing
all sorts of crap - games, MS Works, MSMoney, the 'free trial version of
MSOffice', XP stil uses 7.9 GB on the harddrive, and a second 'hidden' 10
GB partition that apparently mirrors everything in the first.  I'm
guessing this is the 'recovery' partition for when the first one blow up.

<rant>
So, to have a basic system with *no visible userspace apps* XP uses up
about 18 GB of a 60 GB hard drive.  That's what I call bloat....

By comparison, my Debian Testing install, *with* OO2, a full development
environment, and a handful of userspace apps, including wine + 2 large
Windows apps, only uses up 5 GB....

(I know this is a somewhat unrelated rant, but I spent two days trying to
shrink the partition on that laptop and make room for Debian.  It turns
out that HP ships the laptop with an 'inconsistent' HPFS partition, which
XP uses just fine, but linux won't touch.  ARGHHH! No wonder they need a
'recovery partition'.)
</rant>

--
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Yan Seiner, PE  (_)\(_)       ,>/'_     o__
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[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Thanks for your help.

I tried a base of Debian Testing (etch) using net install iso. It seemed
to go fine but then I installed Xorg and KDE. Now I'm getting and error...

could not open default font 'fixed'

I did the following after installing the base...

#apt-get update
#apt-get install xserver-xorg
#apt-get install kde

After it didn't work I did the following...

#dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

Still didn't work so...

#dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig

Still not working.

Debian doesn't realize that I've got a serial mouse either.

My goal is to set up the etch base and run X using KDE desktop. I figure
that once I've got that up and running I'll be able to use Synaptic to
add the other apps I want.

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks


Michael Paoli wrote:
> User wrote: 
>
> Try doing a more customized installation of Debian.  Start by only
> installing the base system.  That'll be quite lean - but likely more
> lean than you want.  You can then use other programs/tools, such as
> tasksel, to select and install sets of packages for types of stuff you
> want to use and have (and dependencies of stuff you want/require).
> You can also use aptitude and other tools for more fine-grained control
> of what packages you do/don't want installed, or want to remove.
> If you find stuff showing up on menus that are required for other
> dependencies, but you don't want on the menus, you can change this on a
> per-user or system-wide basis (e.g. get rid of or "hide" items you
> don't want to appear on the menus).
> references:
> update-menus(1)
> menufile(5)
>

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

The preloaded Windows apps on those new laptops drive me nuts too!

Is your install simply a base install with manual installs of your
favourite apps?

Any insight into what I did wrong?

Thanks



Captain Dondo wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:26:55 -0400, User wrote:
> 
> That's funny... I just got a Windows XP laptop... Even *after* removing
> all sorts of crap - games, MS Works, MSMoney, the 'free trial version of
> MSOffice', XP stil uses 7.9 GB on the harddrive, and a second 'hidden' 10
> GB partition that apparently mirrors everything in the first.  I'm
> guessing this is the 'recovery' partition for when the first one blow up.
>
> <rant>
> So, to have a basic system with *no visible userspace apps* XP uses up
> about 18 GB of a 60 GB hard drive.  That's what I call bloat....
>
> By comparison, my Debian Testing install, *with* OO2, a full development
> environment, and a handful of userspace apps, including wine + 2 large
> Windows apps, only uses up 5 GB....
>
> (I know this is a somewhat unrelated rant, but I spent two days trying to
> shrink the partition on that laptop and make room for Debian.  It turns
> out that HP ships the laptop with an 'inconsistent' HPFS partition, which
> XP uses just fine, but linux won't touch.  ARGHHH! No wonder they need a
> 'recovery partition'.)
> </rant>
>

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

User writes:
> Does a Linux distro exist that just gives you the basics...

Debian, along with every other major distribution I know of.  When you get
to "Debian Software Selection" choose "Manual package selection".  Then
start up Aptitude and install exactly what you want.

> I would like the ability to update or add new programs using Synaptic.

You'll have to install X before you can use Synaptic.

> ...that you had back in Windows XP?

Speak for yourself.  I have never used Microsoft Windows XP.
--
John Hasler

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"Captain Dondo" <yan@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.06.19.14.07.40.678593@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com...
> That's funny... I just got a Windows XP laptop... Even *after* removing
> all sorts of crap - games, MS Works, MSMoney, the 'free trial version of
> MSOffice', XP stil uses 7.9 GB on the harddrive, and a second 'hidden' 10
> GB partition that apparently mirrors everything in the first.  I'm
> guessing this is the 'recovery' partition for when the first one blow up.

Now I'm not trying to say that windows is better than Linux, but in all
fairness, you can't compare the base install an OEM gives you to a clean
streamlined install of XP.

If I could just finish writing my Windows XP install guide . . .

--
LTP

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

User wrote:
> The preloaded Windows apps on those new laptops drive me nuts too!
>
> Is your install simply a base install with manual installs of your
> favourite apps?

I think I just used a Debian Etch Desktop/Laptop install, then added a
whole bunch of -dev debs.

>
> Any insight into what I did wrong?

Perhaps your desktop/window manager?

I use XFCE; I find both KDE and Gnome really slow.  Gnome is OK as far
as the UI but it's slow, KDE I find too garish and bright, and I've had
endless trouble with both when something pukes.

XFCE installs an absolute minimum in the panel; I usually add a few apps
like kate and gedit; if that's all you see you really don't care what is
installed on the rest of the system.  I find that I launch a lot of
barely used apps from the shell rather than clutter up menus with them.

XFCE is also visibly faster than both KDE and Gnome.  It's been my
desktop of choice for about 4 years.

I've also heard good things about Enlightenment; I used it years ago but
then it appeared to die.  From what I hear, it's springing back to life.

--Yan

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Luc The Perverse wrote:
>
> Now I'm not trying to say that windows is better than Linux, but in all
> fairness, you can't compare the base install an OEM gives you to a clean
> streamlined install of XP.
>

Well, this is getting a bit OT, but...

There is *no way* to install "clean streamlined XP" on my laptop without
buying a shrink-wrapped license of XP.  HP no longer ships an XP install
CD; they simply ship a backup utility that, AFAICT, just dumps the hd to
the burner, and it takes 13 CDs to hold all the cruft.

Yes I can blame the vendor, but at the same time, I can (and should)
compare the "basic install" out of the box:

what ships with the laptop: 18 GB, no functional office suite, no compilers
Debian "click OK" net install: 5 GB, Full featured office suite, compilers

If I was HP, I'd be embarrased by the crap on that laptop.

For example, my wireless USB logitech mouse requries a 25 MB "driver"
for XP, while it works with "no driver" in debian.  In both cases, the
driver is part of the kernel core package, but with Win XP, 25 MB of
cruft is ladled on top.  Nowhere does it say that if you just tell XP to
shut up and not install any "drivers" the mouse will work fine.

That's bloat!

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:30:18 -0500, John Hasler <jhasler@debian.org>
wrote in alt.os.linux.debian:

> Speak for yourself.  I have never used Microsoft Windows XP.

If it's anything like the Win2000 SP4 that I spent six hours
installing for a friend last week, you're probably not missing much.

The damn thing didn't even recognise a bog-standard ethernet card till
I'd found some third-party drivers. (I also needed drivers for VGA,
sound and the USB mouse.)

Anyway, I finally installed it and then spent about 30 pleasant
minutes adding Ubuntu with /dev/hda5 as swap and /dev/hda6 as /.
Another five minutes' work provided a link to the Windows desktop from
/dev/hda1 on the KDE desktop.

I then rebooted into Windows, and it kindly offered to format
"unrecognised drive H" - i.e. the Ubuntu partitions - for me.

Grrrr.



PJR :-)
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