I was reading in news.software.readers and came across

Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>

In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print article
about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA "leaned on"
an American remailer.

Anybody know of any truth to this.  I haven't been able to find any but
then again, I can't read Dutch either.

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On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, George Orwell wrote:
>I was reading in news.software.readers and came across
>
>Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>
>
>In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print article
>about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA "leaned on"
>an American remailer.
>
>Anybody know of any truth to this.  I haven't been able to find any but
>then again, I can't read Dutch either.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/0...mailer_gets/pri
nt.html

he used the Surfola service (and not "Anonymizer.com as we mistakenly wrote
in our initial report - apologies to all concerned - Ed"), believing the
companys privacy policy would protect him. Not so. Dutch police worked
closely with the US company and the FBI to track him down.

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TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, George Orwell wrote: 
>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/0...nt.ht
ml
>
> he used the Surfola service (and not "Anonymizer.com as we mistakenly wrot
e
> in our initial report - apologies to all concerned - Ed"), believing the
> companys privacy policy would protect him. Not so. Dutch police worked
> closely with the US company and the FBI to track him down.

So: nothing to do with "remailers" as we use the word here!

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

George Orwell schreef:
> I was reading in news.software.readers and came across
>
> Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>
>
> In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print article
> about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA "leaned on"
> an American remailer.
>
> Anybody know of any truth to this.  I haven't been able to find any but
> then again, I can't read Dutch either.

http://www.netkwesties.nl/editie67/artikel1.php (dutch)
http://archive.edri.org/cgi-bin/index?id=000100000108 (english)

It was the payment details that got the blackmailer framed. He had some
account details stegoed into a dutch second hand car site and downloaded
that picture through the web anonymizer. With a Mixminion nym (yet to be
deployed) or TOR (ignoring NSA capabilities) he would probably have
pulled it off. Terminating a replyblock in aam would also have put the
police on a dead track.

I see two roads of stopping these kinds of extortion (or terrorist
attacks as we would call it in court these days):

1) Noone is anonymous on internet anymore. Everything is stored and
nothing escapes the eye of the almighty Big Brother network

2) More police officers and better employee screening at all pudding
factories

Somehow this also reminds me of assassination politics by Jim Bell.
Which could be solved by not making anonymous payments possible. I am
very much against anonymous payments and things like the Bank Secrecy in
Swiss.

That leaves terrorism to deal with... Maybe we should strike a deal with
Allah and deny the terrorists their 72 virgins.

Hi,
Thomas
- --
"When paranoia is outlawed .."
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George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote:

> I was reading in news.software.readers and came across
>
> Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>
>
> In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print
> article about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA
> "leaned on" an American remailer.

This had nothing at all to do with remailers, it was a case of someone
using an "off shore anonymity service" to commit a crime and finding
out they're not quite as anonymous as they claim to be. I believe it
was first reported as Anonymizer.com, then corrected to some other
service which I can't seem to remember the name of at the moment. 

The point is, there's a REASON some of us keep harping on accurately
defining the difference between anonymity and privacy, and "truth in
advertising" when it comes to privacy services. This was a scoundrel
that got busted extorting money from someone, but it could just as
easily have been a righteous "whistle blower" type having his identity
discovered by a nefarious government or well funded corporation.

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote:

> I was reading in news.software.readers and came across
>
> Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>
>
> In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print
> article about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA
> "leaned on" an American remailer.

This had nothing at all to do with remailers, it was a case of someone
using an "off shore anonymity service" to commit a crime and finding
out they're not quite as anonymous as they claim to be. I believe it
was first reported as Anonymizer.com, then corrected to some other

service which I can't seem to remember the name of at the moment. 

The point is, there's a REASON some of us keep harping on accurately
defining the difference between anonymity and privacy, and "truth in
advertising" when it comes to privacy services. This was a scoundrel
that got busted extorting money from someone, but it could just as
easily have been a righteous "whistle blower" type having his identity
discovered by a nefarious government or well funded corporation.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

TwistyCreek <anon@comments.header> wrote:

> George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote:
> 
>
> This had nothing at all to do with remailers, it was a case of someone
> using an "off shore anonymity service" to commit a crime and finding
> out they're not quite as anonymous as they claim to be. I believe it
> was first reported as Anonymizer.com, then corrected to some other
>
> service which I can't seem to remember the name of at the moment. 
>
> The point is, there's a REASON some of us keep harping on accurately
> defining the difference between anonymity and privacy, and "truth in
> advertising" when it comes to privacy services. This was a scoundrel
> that got busted extorting money from someone, but it could just as
> easily have been a righteous "whistle blower" type having his identity
> discovered by a nefarious government or well funded corporation.


Thanks guys, I appreciate the urls.

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer schreef:
[snip]
> Thanks guys, I appreciate the urls.

I have been doing some more thinking, and I think the ?press? message
that an anonymizing service was used is misleading.

What I think happened is this:
1] Guy creates his own ATM card from the stego in the picture on the 2nd
hand car site   http://autotelegraaf.nl/
2] Guy goes to teller machine and inserts the card to make a withdraw
3] Police is automatically alerted and card is swallowed by machine
4] Guy is stupid and goes in to reclaim his ATM card and gets arrested
5] No remailer involved at all.

That is what I think they can do this day. Police and TLA are not as
smart as people think. It is the people that is stupid (and TLA are also
people).

Sometimes I laugh at the news. This is true. Once you start to think
like the TLA do a lot that happens in the world becomes trivial to
understand. The press just dresses it up pretty but it still is nothing.

Last thing that had me ROTFLOL was
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5011096.stm (Eight held in
anti-terror raids, 24 May 2006)

I know the police doesn't think that is very funny but I have never
accused any policemen of having a sense of humor :-)

Thomas
- --
"When paranoia is outlawed .."
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Thomas J. Boschloo <nospam@hccnet.nl> wrote:
: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

: George Orwell schreef:
: > I was reading in news.software.readers and came across
: >
: > Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>
: >
: > In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print article
: > about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA "leaned on"
: > an American remailer.
: >
: > Anybody know of any truth to this.  I haven't been able to find any but
: > then again, I can't read Dutch either.

: http://www.netkwesties.nl/editie67/artikel1.php (dutch)
: http://archive.edri.org/cgi-bin/index?id=000100000108 (english)

: It was the payment details that got the blackmailer framed. He had some
: account details stegoed into a dutch second hand car site and downloaded
: that picture through the web anonymizer. With a Mixminion nym (yet to be
: deployed) or TOR (ignoring NSA capabilities) he would probably have
: pulled it off. Terminating a replyblock in aam would also have put the
: police on a dead track.

He made 1 mistake by trusting Surfola (or whatever it was called). He
would have pulled it off if had asked for them to post the 'card info'
in a popular binaries group. (repeat the posting with a specific subject
line everyday for 7 days orso and download -all- the binaries in that
newsgroup for the next x months automaticly)

: I see two roads of stopping these kinds of extortion (or terrorist
: attacks as we would call it in court these days):

: 1) Noone is anonymous on internet anymore. Everything is stored and
: nothing escapes the eye of the almighty Big Brother network

I do not believe 'they' know everything one does on the Internet. If
your name is Bin Laden, you will match any profile and you are toast
but if you are John Doe downloading porn, you are 1 of many John Doe's
doeing that, not easy for 'them' to differentiate between you and the
others .. However once you start using your 'card' they will target
'you'. Ie. they will request all store/street surveillance cam footage
for the day you used an ATM to see if they can identify you. They will
request GSM location info. Not easy to stay 'hidden' and not be
'profilabe'. Ie. gsm user X always turns off his gsm 10 minutes
before a withdraw at a gsm location next to the ATM ..

So why not post the card info and have the police follow false leads,
set the max withdraw amount to e5000 and have some fun, 'they' can post
a new card/swipe and the fun starts all over again ...

: 2) More police officers and better employee screening at all pudding
: factories

Yeah, but who will police the police ?

: Somehow this also reminds me of assassination politics by Jim Bell.

Nice thought experiment. When does a 'bet' become a payment for a hit ?
(the next question of course should be, would it improve the ethics
of public office holders ..)

: Which could be solved by not making anonymous payments possible. I am
: very much against anonymous payments and things like the Bank Secrecy in
: Swiss.

: That leaves terrorism to deal with... Maybe we should strike a deal with
: Allah and deny the terrorists their 72 virgins.

There is no allah. There are no 72 virgins, there are only 72 raisins.

http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol6No...PhenixHorn.html [para:30]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_...,631332,00.html

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Alex de Joode schreef:
> Thomas J. Boschloo <nospam@hccnet.nl> wrote:
> : George Orwell schreef:
> : > I was reading in news.software.readers and came across
> : >
> : > Message-ID: <44945fef$0$82155$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>
> : >
> : > In which the author claims to have seen a Dutch language print article
> : > about a remailer user being tracked down because Dutch LEA "leaned on"
> : > an American remailer.
> : >
> : > Anybody know of any truth to this.  I haven't been able to find any bu
t
> : > then again, I can't read Dutch either.
>
> : http://www.netkwesties.nl/editie67/artikel1.php (dutch)
> : http://archive.edri.org/cgi-bin/index?id=000100000108 (english)
>
> : It was the payment details that got the blackmailer framed. He had some
> : account details stegoed into a dutch second hand car site and downloaded
> : that picture through the web anonymizer. With a Mixminion nym (yet to be
> : deployed) or TOR (ignoring NSA capabilities) he would probably have
> : pulled it off. Terminating a replyblock in aam would also have put the
> : police on a dead track.
>
> He made 1 mistake by trusting Surfola (or whatever it was called). He
> would have pulled it off if had asked for them to post the 'card info'
> in a popular binaries group. (repeat the posting with a specific subject
> line everyday for 7 days orso and download -all- the binaries in that
> newsgroup for the next x months automaticly)

From netkwesties:
"Een razendsnelle internationale samenwerking leidde ertoe dat de
verdachte binnen 72 uur gearresteerd kon worden. Op 3 juli 2003 werd de
man aangehouden, bijna op heterdaad, bijkans met het pasje in zijn hand
om te pinnen. De rechtbank behandelt de zaak tegen de verdachte naar
verwachting medio oktober 2003".

Why would they wait till he goes to the ATM when they have his address
and phone number?

They even waited three full days in which he could be endangering the
public again? Why not make a move the moment they got the paypal details
and search his computer and room for clues?

It doesn't make as much sense to me this way as it does the way I see
the events taking place.

> : I see two roads of stopping these kinds of extortion (or terrorist
> : attacks as we would call it in court these days):
>
> : 1) Noone is anonymous on internet anymore. Everything is stored and
> : nothing escapes the eye of the almighty Big Brother network
>
> I do not believe 'they' know everything one does on the Internet. If
> your name is Bin Laden, you will match any profile and you are toast
> but if you are John Doe downloading porn, you are 1 of many John Doe's
> doeing that, not easy for 'them' to differentiate between you and the
> others .. However once you start using your 'card' they will target
> 'you'. Ie. they will request all store/street surveillance cam footage
> for the day you used an ATM to see if they can identify you. They will
> request GSM location info. Not easy to stay 'hidden' and not be
> 'profilabe'. Ie. gsm user X always turns off his gsm 10 minutes
> before a withdraw at a gsm location next to the ATM ..
>
> So why not post the card info and have the police follow false leads,
> set the max withdraw amount to e5000 and have some fun, 'they' can post
> a new card/swipe and the fun starts all over again ...
>
> : 2) More police officers and better employee screening at all pudding
> : factories
>
> Yeah, but who will police the police ?

Remkes and Donner?

> : Somehow this also reminds me of assassination politics by Jim Bell.
>
> Nice thought experiment. When does a 'bet' become a payment for a hit ?
> (the next question of course should be, would it improve the ethics
> of public office holders ..)
>
> : Which could be solved by not making anonymous payments possible. I am
> : very much against anonymous payments and things like the Bank Secrecy in
> : Swiss.
>
> : That leaves terrorism to deal with... Maybe we should strike a deal with
> : Allah and deny the terrorists their 72 virgins.
>
> There is no allah. There are no 72 virgins, there are only 72 raisins.
>
> http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol6No...PhenixHorn.html [para:30]
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_...,631332,00.html

Where in heaven do you spend all your time coming up with things like
these ;-D

::goes off to get some white raisins from the supermarket just in case::

Thomas
--
"When paranoia is outlawed .."

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