Steve Wolkoff wrote on  Feb 10th, 2006:

"We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few weeks. One
of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."

It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think people
who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going on.

 ________________________________________
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Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.

Jake

On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Wolkoff wrote on  Feb 10th, 2006:
>
> "We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few weeks.
> One
> of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
>
> It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think
> people
> who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going on.
>
>  ________________________________________
_________________________
> Auto news & advice =96 check out Sympatico / MSN Autos
> http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
>
>  ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
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>
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...except in Breeze, maybe...




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-----Original Message-----

From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of Jake
Hilton
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:01 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3


Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.

Jake

On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Wolkoff wrote on  Feb 10th, 2006:
>
> "We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few=20
> weeks. One of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
>
> It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think=20
> people who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going=20
> on.
>
>  ________________________________________
_________________________
> Auto news & advice - check out Sympatico / MSN Autos=20
> http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
>
>  ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:=20
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training=20
> http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
>
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Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.


>From: "Jake Hilton" <flashcomm-qux/SyskHsPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: FlashComm Mailing List <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHN
m@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pu
blic.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:08 -0600
>
>Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
>
>Jake
>
>On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wr
ote: 
> ________________________________________
_______
>FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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>http://training.figleaf.com

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[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Then why not go to Red5?

I mean, honestly...that wasn't a smartass question.

I'm considering it myself.

Different topic, I'm sure.

On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>
> 
.[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
>  ________________________________________
_________________________
> Search your PC with MSN Desktop Search  http://desktop.sympatico.msn.ca/
>
>  ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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>


--=20
Jordan Snyder
Applications Developer
Image Action LLC
http://www.imageaction.com
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[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

All is not lost.

I spoke with one of the fine folks at Nellymoser today, and they do in
fact have a scalable, enterprise ready application for server side flv
to mp3 conversion, in flavors for both windows and linux. It's not
cheap, but it's available. At the moment, their pricing does not seem to
be completely firm ("Let's make a deal"), so I don't think it would be
proper of me to repeat the prices I was quoted.

It might take a few contact attempts, but eventually someone from
Nellymoser will reply. I think they weren't expecting every FMS dev from
New York to Timbuktu to ask about it, and I don't think their sales team
is big enough for the volume just yet.

I expect to have an evaluation copy of the app in the next couple of
days, and I'll post comments about performance to the list once I've had
some time to play with it (the app that is, Mr. Dirty Mind).

About the utility S. Wolkoff mentioned... I'd put it out of my mind were
I you (the collective "you"). Again, I'm not comfortable repeating info
that may have been given to me in confidence so I won't go into
specifics, but don't plan on the app being released by Adobe anytime
soon (if at all). I should say that, to the best of my knowledge) this
is not due to anything on Nellymoser's side, so please don't give them a
hard time about it.

-Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of John Berzy
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:09 PM
To: flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3

Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.


>From: "Jake Hilton" <flashcomm-qux/SyskHsPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: FlashComm Mailing List <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHN
m@public.gmane.org>
>To: "FlashComm Mailing List" <flashcomm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@pu
blic.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:08 -0600
>
>Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.
>
>Jake
>
>On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wr
ote: 
weeks.[vbcol=seagreen] 
> ________________________________________
_______
>FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
>To change your subscription options or search the archive:
>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
>Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
>http://www.figleaf.com
>http://training.figleaf.com

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[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Truth be told, I'm a little worried about the legal issues surrounding
red5. I'm quite certain that the suits will find their way to squashing
red5 if it starts to take a bite out of their (Adobe's) anticipated
revenue. Being a public corporation, they are bound (bound as in
"required", not as in "likely") to take action against threats to their
revenue streams.

With that in mind, there's no chance of me recommending Red5 as a
solution for any of my paying clients.

-Jay


-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of Jordan
Snyder
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:51 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3

Then why not go to Red5?

I mean, honestly...that wasn't a smartass question.

I'm considering it myself.

Different topic, I'm sure.

On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Stuff like this gives me even more incentive to go to RED5.
>
> 
weeks.[vbcol=seagreen] 
think[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
>  ________________________________________
_________________________
> Search your PC with MSN Desktop Search
http://desktop.sympatico.msn.ca/
>
>  ________________________________________
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> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
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>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
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> http://training.figleaf.com
>


--
Jordan Snyder
Applications Developer
Image Action LLC
http://www.imageaction.com
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On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:[vbcol
=seagreen]
>
> Truth be told, I'm a little worried about the legal issues surrounding
> red5. I'm quite certain that the suits will find their way to squashing
> red5 if it starts to take a bite out of their (Adobe's) anticipated
> revenue. Being a public corporation, they are bound (bound as in
> "required", not as in "likely") to take action against threats to their
> revenue streams.[/vbcol]


You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue stream. You
actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this. There
have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year and a
half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the purpose
of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage door
opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining that a
competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created by
reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.

http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara... />
41625.html

The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly analagous to
Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
engineer.

There is no gray area about this.

Regards
Hank
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[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Hi Jake -

We have not been able to release the FLV / MP3 converter due to
restrictions in our Nelly Moser license agreement. While prepping the
converter for the Labs release, we reviewed the license agreement with
our Legal team, and found that we can only distribute this tool to be
used with licensed copies of Flash Media Server. If this tool were used
in conjunction with any other server (e.g. Red5) Adobe would be
violating that license agreement. At that point, both we and the end
users of that tool would be in a legally tenuous situation. We're going
to have a Private Beta for this tool, which we are working on setting up
right now. I'm sorry for the delay and lack of communication. I really
wanted to make this tool publicly available, as I think it opens up a
whole range of cool FMS based applications.=20

@Jay - while I guess this is not technically NM's "fault", we are bound
by the contractual agreements that our licensors have imposed on us.

I will update when we have more information on our Beta program for this
converter.

thanks,

-steve.=09

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of Jake
Hilton
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:01 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3

Well.. dare I say we will never see this tool.

Jake

On 7/11/06, John Berzy <passbad-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Wolkoff wrote on  Feb 10th, 2006:
>
> "We are putting some free FMS tools on Adobe Labs in the next few
weeks.
> One
> of these tools is an FLV > MP3 converter."
>
> It's been months now but still no official word on this tool. I think
> people
> who invest their time and money deserve to know what's going on.
>
>  ________________________________________
_________________________
> Auto news & advice - check out Sympatico / MSN Autos
> http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
>
>  ________________________________________
_______
> FlashComm-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
> To change your subscription options or search the archive:
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcomm
>
> Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software
> Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training
> http://www.figleaf.com
> http://training.figleaf.com
>
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[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

I'm not sure what county you're in, but here in the US you can sue over
anything you like. I can sue you because the pattern on you shirt hurts
my eyes. That doesn't mean I'll win, and it doesn't mean the judge won't
decide that there is no question of law, but anyone can walk into the
clerk's office of any court, file a complaint, and get a summons to send
to the defendant... regardless of the cause of action.

Case law is wonderful for building your case, and it may save you from
going all the way to trial, but it won't save you from discovery,
pretrial hearings and meetings, and the barrage of motions and other
filings that come with a civil action... all of which require responses
to be filed. If you don't respond to motions, don't participate in
discovery, or if you're foolish enough to not answer the complaint, it
becomes an easy win for the other side.

The real question is whether the folks responsible for the development
of red5 have the time, resources, will, and cash to put up a fight if
Adobe comes calling. Right or wrong, the legal question is only half of
the equation.

If the folks at Adobe can put forth enough evidence that Red5 MIGHT
infringe on patent or copyright, there is enough to have the case
heard... and it doesn't take much. That fact combined with the army of
on staff counsel at adobe makes them a strong adversary, or perhaps more
accurately, very expensive to go up against.

I don't know if you've been through civil litigation, but the volume of
paperwork and research involved can be staggering, and a good lawyer (is
that a contradiction in terms?) will know how to bury the other side in
motions and other filings. That means you either pay a lawyer to handle
it for you, or you end up with a second full time job. The question of
law doesn't matter if you don't have the means or will to fight.

-Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.org
[mailto:flashcomm-bounces-1Ss2GqJETD3yZ38Mhd3e/9ZfFG6BLHNm@public.gmane.
org] On Behalf Of hank
williams
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:54 PM
To: FlashComm Mailing List
Subject: Re: [FlashComm] WAY overdue : flv <--> mp3

On 7/11/06, Jay Charles <jay-/2BbR9jOFtJDNXj9fXT1TFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:[vbcol
=seagreen]
>
> Truth be told, I'm a little worried about the legal issues surrounding
> red5. I'm quite certain that the suits will find their way to[/vbcol]
squashing
> red5 if it starts to take a bite out of their (Adobe's) anticipated
> revenue. Being a public corporation, they are bound (bound as in
> "required", not as in "likely") to take action against threats to
their
> revenue streams.


You cant just sue because something is a threat to your revenue stream.
You
actually have to have *cause*. And the law is fairly clear on this.
There
have been several cases, including one recently (within the last year
and a
half) that reaffirm the right to reverse engineer something for the
purpose
of communications interoperability. The case in point was a garage door
opener and the suit was about the initial manufacturer complaining that
a
competitor had come out with a competitive opener which they created by
reverse engineering. The court found that this was a perfectly legal.

http://news.com.com/ Judges+OK+gara.../>
ht+case/2100
-1028_3-5341625.html

The link above is an article about the case, but it is directly
analagous to
Red5 and reaffirms all the relevant and necessary rights to reverse
engineer.

There is no gray area about this.

Regards
Hank
 ________________________________________
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