[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 =E0 02:46 +0100, Luca Capello a =E9crit :
>    Is there a practical reason for requesting xpm icons?  No need to
>    explain if an answer already exists, but I cannot find it.

This is because some menu systems don't understand other formats.

> 4) evince doesn't appear by default on the GNOME Applications list (it
>    happened on three different installations).  Maybe it's not the
>    only one, but I cannot find any others.

IIRC this is intentional, as evince is a viewer that should only invoked
from programs that have something to view (nautilus, epiphany,
evolution...)

> 6) gnome-panel gives an .xsession-errors because "Unable to open
>    desktop file epiphany.desktop for panel launcher".  This is normal
>    as epiphany isn't installed by default, but I'd suggest to install
>    the firefox.desktop instead.

Epiphany is not installed by default? If this is the case, I consider it
a very important bug in debian-installer.

Looking at the gnome-desktop task, it installs gnome-desktop-environment
and firefox-gnome-support. Besides, gnome-desktop-environment depends on
epiphany-browser | gnome-www-browser, the latter being provided by
firefox-gnome-support. In this case, I don't know what aptitude does,
but if epiphany doesn't get installed in the end this is *wrong*. The
GNOME desktop as a whole is configured to use epiphany, which has decent
desktop integration, which firefox/iceweasel has not.

Can anyone in debian-boot confirm that the aptitude behaviour leads to
epiphany not being installed? If this the case, what solution would you
suggest? (The obvious solution of not installing the ugly
firefox/iceweasel and confusing users with two browsers having been
repeatedly refused by the d-i team.)

> 7) why still Gnomemeeting by default instead of Ekiga (which AFAIK is
>    the default VoIP client since GNOME 2.14)?

This should be fixed in meta-gnome2 1:2.14.3.5.

--=20
.''`.
: :' :      We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'       We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
`-        our own. Resistance is futile.

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 =C3=A0 11:22 +0200, Eddy Petri=C8=99or a =C3=A9cri=
t : 
t[vbcol=seagreen] 
>=20
> Hmm, AFAIR, it wasn't two weeks ago, and I thought *this* was intentional=
and was happy about it.

On our side, it is not. We have spent efforts in providing an integrated
environment, and this includes epiphany as the default browser, not a
half-assed browser designed for Windows and customised with GNOME
colors.

Until recently, d-i was installing both epiphany and firefox, the reason
being "Windows users know firefox". If epiphany doesn't get installed
anymore, this is making things even worse. And now that we have moved to
iceweasel, the Windows argument doesn't hold anymore.

--=20
.''`.
: :' :      We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'       We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
`-        our own. Resistance is futile.

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Josselin Mouette wrote: 
>
> Epiphany is not installed by default? If this is the case, I consider it
> a very important bug in debian-installer.

Hmm, AFAIR, it wasn't two weeks ago, and I thought *this* was intentional an
d was happy about it.

> Looking at the gnome-desktop task, it installs gnome-desktop-environment
> and firefox-gnome-support. Besides, gnome-desktop-environment depends on
> epiphany-browser | gnome-www-browser, the latter being provided by
> firefox-gnome-support. In this case, I don't know what aptitude does,
> but if epiphany doesn't get installed in the end this is *wrong*. The
> GNOME desktop as a whole is configured to use epiphany, which has decent
> desktop integration, which firefox/iceweasel has not.
>
> Can anyone in debian-boot confirm that the aptitude behaviour leads to
> epiphany not being installed? If this the case, what solution would you
> suggest? (The obvious solution of not installing the ugly
> firefox/iceweasel and confusing users with two browsers having been
> repeatedly refused by the d-i team.)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFrJliY8Chqv3NRNoRAqn/AJ9tTzxLRGo24su5MnUSMdsDccuWdwCfbsl3
UA/BSmPJpe0PxNfDw/9ZBJc=
=i7Eo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.or
g

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Luca Capello wrote:
> first of all, I posted to d-d because I think the problem is not
> restricted to GNOME, but if I'm wrong, please continue this discussion
> to debian-gtk-gnome (which I cc:ed) and cc: me please (not needed for
> d-d, I read it).

Indeed, not only GNOME is concerned, but bug reports are often
reassigned when needs be, so next time you discover some issues you may
want to fill them directly as you discover them in the BTS.  However,
there's some room for discussion for the class of bugs you are
reporting here.

> 1) some entries in the Debian menu lack the icon
> 2) the Debian menu requires xpm icons [2] and in fact only 4 packages
>    have icons in the png format (ekiga, evince, gimp, gnomemeeting),
>    but for some packages the xpm icon is really bad
> 3) there are different icons for the same entry in the GNOME
>    Applications list and the Debian menu

These issues are connected; what you describe is a general problem I
have with the Debian menu: its XPM requirement and its duplication of
the menu entries makes it a maintenance burden.

I can imagine technical solutions to these problems, such as a) making
XPM optional and automatically generating it when it's not available
(yes, this might result in an ugly icon in some cases, but at least we
will have an ugly icon vaguely ressembling the icon, and it might also
result in nicer icons for PNG capable menu displays), b) using the
.desktop files upstream provides to automatically register entries in
the Debian menu (Note that the inverse process exists in menu-xdg .

Without this, Debian menu support in Debian packages will always lag
behind as upstream updates its .desktop files, icons etc. or
adds/remove programs.


Another personal problem I have with the Debian menu is that it's
slightly cluttered with entries useless to me, and it's also of no use
along of the GNOME menu under GNOME.  This doesn't motivate me (and I
expect other people) to fix it.

So, basically, I think Debian menu support for GNOME apps is very low
priority, and would have deeper problems to solve first.

> 4) evince doesn't appear by default on the GNOME Applications list (it
>    happened on three different installations).  Maybe it's not the
>    only one, but I cannot find any others.

This is on purpose, the .desktop file has "NoDisplay=true" because it
is expected that you never need to launch evince, but you simply open
documents from nautilus or your browser and this spawns evince.  This
is to not clutter the GNOME menu.

(So, not a bug, a feature.)

> 5) some programs aren't present in the Debian menu:
>      alacarte, gnome-btdownload

No idea about these.  You're welcome to file bugs if it makes sense to
have them in the menu.

> 6) gnome-panel gives an .xsession-errors because "Unable to open
>    desktop file epiphany.desktop for panel launcher".  This is normal
>    as epiphany isn't installed by default, but I'd suggest to install
>    the firefox.desktop instead.

I did not see the discussion which lead to the choice of iceweasel as
the default browser, and I think it would have been a worthwhile
discussion to make publicly.

This appears to be Ubuntu's choice as well, but I think the arguments
brought up back then in the Ubuntu discussion don't apply anymore or
don't apply to Debian (Epiphany is now as usable as IceWeasel is, and
the name "Firefox" is not an argument anymore for Debian).

I suppose what you're seeing is the result of a discrepancy between the
default panel layout offered in the gnome-panel package and the
installed packages.

Perhaps this matter should be discussed on the debian-desktop@ list, at
least I wish we would have a strong Debian Desktop decision-taking
body so we could share ideas and goals and march in the same direction.

Feel free to file a bug against either tasksel or gnome-panel depending
on whether you would like to see iceweasel or epiphany on the default
desktop.

> 7) why still Gnomemeeting by default instead of Ekiga (which AFAIK is
>    the default VoIP client since GNOME 2.14)?

This is fixed in the gnome-desktop-environment package, but did not
migrate to testing yet, will happen in a couple of days.

> 8) the gnomebaker window doesn't start big enough to include all the
>    buttons (this is clearly a bug, which strangely hasn't been
>    reported yet).

Completely unrelated, please see with the gnomebaker package's BTS /
maintainer.

Bye,
--
Loïc Minier <lool@dooz.org>


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-gtk-gnome-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.or
g

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:46:45 +0100
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <he@ftwca.de> wrote:

> Luca Capello <luca@pca.it> writes: 
>
> To be fair, the .png icon referenced by the evince menu file doesn't
> exist...
> 
>
> That is intentional, as evince is not intended to be invoked
> directly. Other applications (such as browsers, nautilus) can and will
> open files in evince when the user is trying to see a
> PDF/PS/DjVu/DVI/... file.

That is a bogus argument. Why shouldn't I want to fire up evince when I
know I have a pdf/ps/etc file on disk I wan't to read? It has a
normal 'open'-button...

grts


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.or
g

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
>                           Why shouldn't I want to fire up evince when I
> know I have a pdf/ps/etc file on disk I wan't to read? It has a
> normal 'open'-button...

Sure, this is possible, and you can add a launcher for evince if you
really like, or edit your menu, or launch evince from the "Run command"
dialog, or from a terminal.

The presence in the menu has to be weighted against the cluttering.

--
Loïc Minier <lool@dooz.org>


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.or
g

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Luca Capello wrote:
> 7) why still Gnomemeeting by default instead of Ekiga (which AFAIK is
>    the default VoIP client since GNOME 2.14)?

This is fixed in gnome-desktop-environment 1:2.14.3.5, which is due to
reach etch in 2 days, assuming a freeze exception is requested and
granted for the new version.

-- 
see shy jo

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]