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Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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05-26-07 12:13 AM
Hello,
I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfar...t/computers.txt for
my secondary computer specifications). It runs Debian r4 and acts a
workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.
I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.
In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
Debian. Who knows after that.
Thank you in advance. 
--
"Maybe it's like an ant hive..." "Bees man, bees have hives." "You know
what I mean. It's like one female that runs the whole show." "Yes, the
queen." "Yeah the mamma. She is bad*ss, man. I mean big." "These things
ain't ants estupido." "I know that." --ALIENS movie
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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05-29-07 06:12 PM
On May 26, 12:37 am, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am currently running linux-image-2.6.18-4-k7 on my old ASUS K8V SE
> Deluxe machine with an Athlon 64 3200+ 754 CPU (single core), 1 GB of
> RAM, etc. (http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfar...omputers.txtfor
> my secondary computer specifications).
Sounds like a nice machine.
> It runs Debian r4 and acts a
> workstation (no gaming) like surfing the Web, using e-mails, using
> newsgroups (Tin and Pan), IMs, IRC, some compilings (nothing major),
> download a lot, SSH from outside like at work, watch videos (online and
> locally) and DVDs, VMware v5.5.4 to test and use things, etc.
I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
3.2 r4)
> I was wondering if I would get any advantages (even 1% faster speed) if
> I were to install and use AMD64 Kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-4-amd64).
> Will it break anything programs like 32-bit programs? I know I will have
> to recompile things like NVIDIA driver and VMware v5.5.4's drivers. I am
> not making my OS 100% 64-bit because I heard it is a hassle to compile
> both 32-bit and 64-bit programs which I do not have time for.
Just try it. There is no big deal to select kernelpackage when you
install, and later kernel when you boot. You could have both packages
installed at the same time.
Switch to 64 bit just for it's own sake is only realy any advantage
when you have programs that use lots of memory, or you have a machine
with lots of RAM (like 2 GB RAM). Then there is advantages with 64-
bit kernels. The 64-bit programs has a tendency to also need more RAM
then same version in 32-bit.
If you want to run 64 bit kernel and 32 bit application i should be
that simple. But if you want to run all software, kernel and
applications, in 64-bit mode, the easy way is to reinstall Debian.
> In a couple years or more, I will put a dual core 939 Athlon 64 for this
> Debian. Who knows after that.
It will be at least quad core CPU:s then :-)
> Thank you in advance.
Good luck
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-01-07 06:13 AM
On 5/29/2007 9:25 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
> Sounds like a nice machine.
Yeah, but it's not that fast. It's good for non-gaming and anything not
requiring heavy usage. ;)
>
> I would change to Debian/Etch (v 4.0) and not running Debian/Sarge (v
> 3.2 r4)
Oops, my text/console login screens doesn't say that anymore. I have
Lenny/Sid now. I assume that is Etch. All these codenames can be confusing!
>
> Just try it. There is no big deal to select kernelpackage when you
> install, and later kernel when you boot. You could have both packages
> installed at the same time.
Yeah, I was aware of having multiple Kernels. I was asking to see if it
was worth the time and effort. I haven't installed it or tried it yet
due to lack of free time (notice I am late in replying to this!).
> Switch to 64 bit just for it's own sake is only realy any advantage
> when you have programs that use lots of memory, or you have a machine
> with lots of RAM (like 2 GB RAM). Then there is advantages with 64-
Ah, I guess I won't bother at this time with this old 64-bit machine
that only has 1 GB of RAM. I will save it for the next hardware (2 GB of
RAM -- might be able to add more from the 754 box since they use the
same DRAM type).
> bit kernels. The 64-bit programs has a tendency to also need more RAM
> then same version in 32-bit.
> If you want to run 64 bit kernel and 32 bit application i should be
> that simple. But if you want to run all software, kernel and
> applications, in 64-bit mode, the easy way is to reinstall Debian.
Do all 32-bit programs exist in 64-bit or will I have to compile them
myself? What I like about Debian is the premade compiled packages via
apt-get. For example, I don't see a 64-bit Pan, Tin, BitchX, KDE,
Gaim/Pidgeon, Lopster, aMule, Mplayer, Xine, IceApe (SeaMonkey), VMware
v5.5.4, XMMS, etc.
>
> It will be at least quad core CPU:s then :-)
That will be my gaming box first. [grin]
--
"What, like I had to live with all those ants? Do you know what I did to
those ants? HoooHooo! No more ants!" --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-01-07 12:12 PM
Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> writes:
>On 5/29/2007 9:25 AM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
>Oops, my text/console login screens doesn't say that anymore. I have
>Lenny/Sid now. I assume that is Etch. All these codenames can be confusing!
Sarge, Etch, Lenny, and Sid are all different tracks. Currently these
correspond to:
oldstable=Sarge
stable=Etch
testing=Lenny
unstable=Sid (Sid is always unstable)
>Do all 32-bit programs exist in 64-bit or will I have to compile them
>myself?
Among free software programs, nearly all have 64-bit ports.
> What I like about Debian is the premade compiled packages via
>apt-get. For example, I don't see a 64-bit Pan, Tin, BitchX, KDE,
>Gaim/Pidgeon, Lopster, aMule, Mplayer, Xine, IceApe (SeaMonkey), VMware
>v5.5.4, XMMS, etc.
Of these programs I have only installed xine and xmms, and both of
them are 64-bit executables.
You can check particular packages by looking at the page of the
package. E.g., for XMMS in unstable:
<http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/xmms.html>.
Followups set to alt.os.linux.debian.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-03-07 06:13 AM
On Jun 1, 2:32 pm, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 5/31/2007 11:44 PM PT, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Ah thanks. I wonder if my sources.list are correct. Here is what I have
> right now:
Looks ok, but you should remove/comment all lines that contrains
untesting. If you are not comfortable, you should consider if you
need to run testing. And you should not us unstable.
Hope you do have spaces after deb and deb-src and before testing,
stable and untesting.
> $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
> debhttp://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ testing main
> deb-srchttp://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ testing main
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
Those for lines could be on same server.
deb http://ftp.use.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main
> non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main
> non-free contrib
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/proposed-updates main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/proposed-updates main non-free contrib
You should not use proposed-updates if you not comfortable with
Debian. As you shouldn't use testing.
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
etch and stable is same, so you dont need them both. I would
recommend using etch instead of stable tough. Then you don't get next
stable without you controlling when, when that comes.
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/unstable main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/unstable main non-free contrib
> debhttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
For your convenience you should put debian version together. So stick
stable to one group, testing to one and other repositories together.
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing main non-free contrib
>
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main non-free
> contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/testing-proposed-updates main
> non-free contrib
No need for this.
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/etch main non-free contrib
You already have this...
> debhttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
> deb-srchttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable main non-free contrib
And this
> debhttp://security.debian.org/stable/updates main contrib non-free
> debhttp://security.debian.org/etch/updates main contrib non-free
> debhttp://security.debian.org/testing/updates main contrib non-free
You prob. only need stable (or etch), as testing should get next
security from unstable (sid)
> debhttp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/debian/testing main
> deb-srchttp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/debian/testing main
You already have testing.
> # VLC fromhttp://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-debian.html
> debhttp://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debiansid main
> debhttp://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debiansarge main
> deb-srchttp://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debiansid main
This is in debian-multimedia.org
> # dvd::rip fromhttp://hpisi.nerim.net/
> debhttp://www.debian-multimedia.orgtesting main
> debhttp://www.debian-multimedia.orgstable main
> debhttp://www.debian-multimedia.orgsid main
You should only use the one that is your main distribution. Not all.
So you should prob. only use etch and possible testing.
>
>
> Good.
>
>
VMware is commercial software, and has nothing to do with Debians
ordinary repository. They could have support though. Like a
repository of there own. All other should be in Debian repository.
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Ah cool. Nice tip. I assume 64-bit ports get updated often as 32-bit?
Yes, as there are from Debian. Like all architectures that is
supported.
You should look at xmms2, as xmms is not supported any longer. xmms2
is a client/server architecture which is nice if you want to controll
your xmms from other devices, like mobile phone etc.
Good luck
[ Post a follow-up to this message ]
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-03-07 12:13 PM
On 6/2/2007 5:28 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
> Looks ok, but you should remove/comment all lines that contrains
> untesting. If you are not comfortable, you should consider if you
> need to run testing. And you should not us unstable.
Is unstable same as experimental or different? I used my friend's
sources.list and other sources to make my own. I definitely don't want
to to run stable since that is outdated and rarely gets updates.
> Hope you do have spaces after deb and deb-src and before testing,
> stable and untesting.
Weird. I wonder why my posts didn't format correctly. I used copy and
paste. So yeah, there are spaces between deb/deb-src and the URLs.
>
>
> Those for lines could be on same server.
> deb http://ftp.use.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
>
>
> You should not use proposed-updates if you not comfortable with
> Debian. As you shouldn't use testing.
>
>
> etch and stable is same, so you dont need them both. I would
> recommend using etch instead of stable tough. Then you don't get next
> stable without you controlling when, when that comes.
>
>
>
> For your convenience you should put debian version together. So stick
> stable to one group, testing to one and other repositories together.
>
>
> No need for this.
>
>
> You already have this...
>
>
> And this
>
>
> You prob. only need stable (or etch), as testing should get next
> security from unstable (sid)
>
>
> You already have testing.
>
>
> This is in debian-multimedia.org
>
>
> You should only use the one that is your main distribution. Not all.
> So you should prob. only use etch and possible testing.
I was told that having mixxed ones are fine. Am I being told wrong?
>
> VMware is commercial software, and has nothing to do with Debians
> ordinary repository. They could have support though. Like a
> repository of there own. All other should be in Debian repository.
OK.
>
>
> Yes, as there are from Debian. Like all architectures that is
> supported.
> You should look at xmms2, as xmms is not supported any longer. xmms2
> is a client/server architecture which is nice if you want to controll
> your xmms from other devices, like mobile phone etc.
I still use old Winamp v2.94(?) in Windows. I don't need the fancy bells
and whistles like XMMS2's external controllers. In fact, I disable the
visualization, audio enhancement plugins, etc. I am just a simple guy. ;)
--
"I'm not a worker ant. I'm like a queen. Or maybe a king. But you never
hear of king ants." --Sean Bentley
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-03-07 06:13 PM
I demand that Ant may or may not have written...
> On 6/2/2007 5:28 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Is unstable same as experimental or different?
Very different. You don't normally want packages from experimental - it's
usually best to wait for them to be uploaded to unstable. Also, experimental
is incomplete and requires packages from unstable, and experimental packages
may well be broken on all but their maintainers' computers.
> I used my friend's sources.list and other sources to make my own. I
> definitely don't want to to run stable since that is outdated and rarely
> gets updates.
In that case, you probably want both testing and unstable in your
sources.list. Something like the following in /etc/apt/preferences may also
be helpful (*don't* put the comment lines in):
# for www.debian-multimedia.org
Package: *
Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages, a=testing
Pin-Priority: 350
Package: *
Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
Pin-Priority: 340
# for Debian testing
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian, a=testing
Pin-Priority: 450
# for Debian experimental
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian, a=experimental
Pin-Priority: 300
# for Debian unstable; catch-all
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 400
Packages will, by default, come from testing; and you should also have
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
in your sources.list (remove contrib and/or non-free if you don't have them
in your main testing entry).
[snip]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I was told that having mixed ones are fine. Am I being told wrong?
No, but if you weren't told about apt pinning, you weren't told enough...
[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Lobby friends, family, business, government. WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET
.
An artist should be fit for the best society and kept out of it.
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-03-07 06:13 PM
On Jun 3, 1:21 pm, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 6/2/2007 5:28 PM PT, AJackson wrote:
>
>
>
> Is unstable same as experimental or different? I used my friend's
> sources.list and other sources to make my own. I definitely don't want
> to to run stable since that is outdated and rarely gets updates.
Nope, they are different. If they where, they should have had the same
names.
>
> I was told that having mixxed ones are fine. Am I being told wrong?
It depends. Are you willing to manually fix bugs and errors in
packages becouse some error in package, which make them hard to fix
and could make your system useless? Then stay with unstable.
If you want a easy system to maintain and your main use of the system
is others than configure it, use stable.
If you have a desktop machine which you want to have newer software
and can resolve some brakage package. Then testing is the
distribution for you.
I would recommend new user to start with stable. When they get used
and start to become comfortable with Debian and Linux. THEN they
could start looking into testing. That mixup in your sources.list is
not good for a beginner. I guess that it is better suited for your
friends use, as they prob are more used to Debian than you are.
There are people who install software and stuff on others computers
without asking, which I would never do. So if I would have help you
with your computer, you wouldn't get anything else than Stable. Later
I might shown you testing. But never unstable direct.
>
> OK.
You could look into Qemu, XEN or servez(sp?). They do almost the same
as VMware (depending on what you want, they could be better solution
for you).
>
> I still use old Winamp v2.94(?) in Windows. I don't need the fancy bells
> and whistles like XMMS2's external controllers. In fact, I disable the
> visualization, audio enhancement plugins, etc. I am just a simple guy. ;)
It is different front ends to xmms2, so you could chose one that looks
like xmms, or controlled by command lines (and by that through a
webbpage or Jabber (XMPP)). And xmmp will be removed, as there is no
support upstreams (that is outside Debian where the program comes
from).
Good luck
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Re: Debian Question: linux-image-2.6...-k7 vs. linux-image-2.6...-amd64 |
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06-04-07 12:13 AM
On 6/3/2007 7:12 AM PT, Darren Salt wrote:
> I demand that Ant may or may not have written...
>
>
>
> Very different. You don't normally want packages from experimental - it's
> usually best to wait for them to be uploaded to unstable. Also, experiment
al
> is incomplete and requires packages from unstable, and experimental packag
es
> may well be broken on all but their maintainers' computers.
>
>
> In that case, you probably want both testing and unstable in your
> sources.list. Something like the following in /etc/apt/preferences may als
o
> be helpful (*don't* put the comment lines in):
>
> # for www.debian-multimedia.org
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages, a=testing
> Pin-Priority: 350
>
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
> Pin-Priority: 340
>
> # for Debian testing
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian, a=testing
> Pin-Priority: 450
>
> # for Debian experimental
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian, a=experimental
> Pin-Priority: 300
>
> # for Debian unstable; catch-all
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian
> Pin-Priority: 400
>
> Packages will, by default, come from testing; and you should also have
> deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
> in your sources.list (remove contrib and/or non-free if you don't have the
m
> in your main testing entry).
>
> [snip]
>
>
> No, but if you weren't told about apt pinning, you weren't told enough...
>
> [snip]
Ah, pinning isnews to me then. Thanks. I will look at this later.
--
"Left right left right we're army ants. We swarm we fight. We have no
home. We roam. We race. You're lucky if we miss your place." --Douglas
Florian (The Army Ants Poem)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
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