Hi all,

I'm currently monitoring this ng because I need to learn some things about
san. The differences between SAN and NAS are clear to me so that does not
need
any additional explanation.

My interests in SAN were raised when I received some hardware from a friend
and started to read about it. It came clear to me that it's a storage
solution that can be usefull for my network (multi-site home network.
Yes, you may start rolling on the floor and piss you're pants and all the
other crap  ).

I'm not interested is quantity, I don't need a lot of storage, it just needs
to be solid
and fail safe (thinking of RAID 50). It will be accessed by a few servers:

One database server with the DB on the san running NetBSD maybe solaris (for
small forum);
One NAS server, so I can have access to the SAN when necessary;
One server running virtual server software, the virtual drive images will be
placed on the SAN;
Two clustered servers (W2k3) that shares the users profiles to the lan.

Yeah, still talking about that home network.


What I already know:

I'm running several raid arrays (scsi and ata)
Not much scsi understanding, do know the basic stuff
Know nothing about san.

To make an already long story not too much longer, what do I need to know:

How does a disk array show up on a computer with a HBA, anybody knows some
links for a Introduction?
How about raid, is it included in the disk array or is it a HBA task?

I admit, a lot of text and I just hope that someone can answer my questions.

thanks,
Marcel

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

>
>To make an already long story not too much longer, what do I need to know:
>
>How does a disk array show up on a computer with a HBA, anybody knows some
>links for a Introduction?
>How about raid, is it included in the disk array or is it a HBA task?


You have to have one of 2 things, either a switch or zoning software
on the array.  i guess technically you don't but you leave yourself
open to disaster otherwise.

An array looks just like a LUN, or multiple LUN's if no zoning.  Once
the HBA is configured and working it will see whatever it's allowed to
see.  If that's all 42 LUN's on the array then that's what it will
see.  If it's zone to only see 1 LUN, well you get the idea.

Raid controllers are part of almost all disk arrays, well actually all
"arrays" have raid controllers.  You can make an array out of jbod
that may not have a raid controller.

Is this what you were looking for?  I have no links other than
pointing you to Brocade or some other switch manufacturer.  The array
mfg should also have this sort of info.

~F

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

"Faeandar" <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
 news:l9jci0h0and17ifrata6ebsds5ieli0093@
4ax.com...
> 
know:[vbcol=seagreen] 
some[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
>
> You have to have one of 2 things, either a switch or zoning software
> on the array.  i guess technically you don't but you leave yourself
> open to disaster otherwise.

I've got an compaq 7 port storage hub with gbic slots on his back, but I
don't think
that's what you meant. Should I see it as some sort of hardware security?

>
> An array looks just like a LUN, or multiple LUN's if no zoning.  Once
> the HBA is configured and working it will see whatever it's allowed to
> see.  If that's all 42 LUN's on the array then that's what it will
> see.  If it's zone to only see 1 LUN, well you get the idea.

Had to look up LUN at whatis.com. If I see it correctly than I should give
each partition
on an raid array a lun. Let's say the array is divided into two partitions,
lun 0 & 1.
Lun 0 for the db en lun 1 for the rest.

After that I should create three zones, the first zone for the cluster that
can only see lun 1,
the second zone for the database server and can only see lun 0, the third
zone for the NAS
that can see both lun's.

Am I correct when I say that lun's are placed in zones and zones are
"mounted" to the HBA's??

>
> Raid controllers are part of almost all disk arrays, well actually all
> "arrays" have raid controllers.  You can make an array out of jbod
> that may not have a raid controller.
>

I'm searching on eBay for a disk array, the only brands that I see there are
Dell, Compaq/HP, Sun.
Do they also have onboard raid controllers?? I ask this because the most
arrays that are passing through
the ng are in my eyes the more exotic brands...

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

Please buy a copy of the book Designing Storage Area Networks by the author
Tom Clark. It is worth every penny you spend on it.

It will answer all the questions you have posted here in detail. It explains
 the
fundamentals very well. You can then apply those fundamental ideas of SAN to
 any
vendor's product by just readin that specific verndors user manual.

-Zombie

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

"zombie" <zombie_member@newsguy.com> schreef in bericht
news:cg69ei0as1@drn.newsguy.com...
> Please buy a copy of the book Designing Storage Area Networks by the
author
> Tom Clark. It is worth every penny you spend on it.
>
> It will answer all the questions you have posted here in detail. It
explains the
> fundamentals very well. You can then apply those fundamental ideas of SAN
to any
> vendor's product by just readin that specific verndors user manual.
>
> -Zombie
>

Just did, will be delivered next week. I ordered the 2003 version, 1999
version was also available.

Thanks for the advice, I also would like to know wether my assumptions above
were correct about zoning and lun's?

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

"Marcel" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message
news:cg5g12$9l9$1@news.cistron.nl...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently monitoring this ng because I need to learn some things about
> san. The differences between SAN and NAS are clear to me so that does not
> need
> any additional explanation.
>
> My interests in SAN were raised when I received some hardware from a
friend
> and started to read about it. It came clear to me that it's a storage
> solution that can be usefull for my network (multi-site home network.
> Yes, you may start rolling on the floor and piss you're pants and all the
> other crap  ).
>
> I'm not interested is quantity, I don't need a lot of storage, it just
needs
> to be solid
> and fail safe (thinking of RAID 50). It will be accessed by a few servers:
>
> One database server with the DB on the san running NetBSD maybe solaris
(for
> small forum);
> One NAS server, so I can have access to the SAN when necessary;
> One server running virtual server software, the virtual drive images will
be
> placed on the SAN;
> Two clustered servers (W2k3) that shares the users profiles to the lan.
>
> Yeah, still talking about that home network.
>
>
> What I already know:
>
> I'm running several raid arrays (scsi and ata)
> Not much scsi understanding, do know the basic stuff
> Know nothing about san.
>
> To make an already long story not too much longer, what do I need to know:
>
> How does a disk array show up on a computer with a HBA, anybody knows some
> links for a Introduction?
> How about raid, is it included in the disk array or is it a HBA task?
>
> I admit, a lot of text and I just hope that someone can answer my
questions.
>
> thanks,
> Marcel
>
>
>
I believe you understand that a SAN is just a network build around storage
arrays that have networking skills.

The HBA on each  server is the entry point to one or multiple LUNs
(volumes?) built on the array(s).

Setting those LUNs and   the RAID level is done on the array. Usually.
However, some products can do that in software and outside of the array.

The first thing you should choose is the networking protocol to connect
servers and arrays. You have a choice of FC and iSCSI.  In your case I would
suggest iSCSI because costs less and is easier.

You do need to learn more, but the learning can't be done on Usenet. There
are plenty of good books on iSCSI.  Also you can learn a lot for free here :
http://searchcrm.techtarget.com/ori...00.h
tml

Start by looking at SanMelody Lite http://www.datacore.com/  and  WinTarget
http://www.stringbeansoftware.com/products.asp

Hope that this helps

Good learning

Art

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

I think recommending $2000 software for educational use is a bit of
overkill 

I'd personally start with some of the freeware Linux iSCSI stuff
available in source code. Like UNH iSCSI project from

http://sourceforge.net/projects/unh-iscsi/

and if Linux is not an option and Windows OS is assumed my company
Rocket Division Software also has iSCSI target/initiator software for
Windows with license agreement allowing to use it free of charge for
educational/non-profit purpose. May check

http://www.rocketdivision.com

for more details.

Hope this helped 

Regards,
Anton Kolomyeytsev

CEO, Rocket Division Software

"ahedge" <ahedge@direcway.com> wrote in message news:<M5QVc.2041$rP2.801@hydra.nntpserver.co
m>...
> "Marcel" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message
> news:cg5g12$9l9$1@news.cistron.nl... 
>  friend 
>  needs 
>  (for 
>  be 
>  questions. 
> I believe you understand that a SAN is just a network build around storage
> arrays that have networking skills.
>
> The HBA on each  server is the entry point to one or multiple LUNs
> (volumes?) built on the array(s).
>
> Setting those LUNs and   the RAID level is done on the array. Usually.
> However, some products can do that in software and outside of the array.
>
> The first thing you should choose is the networking protocol to connect
> servers and arrays. You have a choice of FC and iSCSI.  In your case I wou
ld
> suggest iSCSI because costs less and is easier.
>
> You do need to learn more, but the learning can't be done on Usenet. There
> are plenty of good books on iSCSI.  Also you can learn a lot for free here
 :
> http://searchcrm.techtarget.com/ori...00
.html
>
> Start by looking at SanMelody Lite http://www.datacore.com/  and  WinTarge
t
> http://www.stringbeansoftware.com/products.asp
>
> Hope that this helps
>
> Good learning
>
> Art

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

 
> I believe you understand that a SAN is just a network build around storage
> arrays that have networking skills.
>

Yup

> The HBA on each  server is the entry point to one or multiple LUNs
> (volumes?) built on the array(s).
>

Yup

> Setting those LUNs and   the RAID level is done on the array. Usually.
> However, some products can do that in software and outside of the array.

If one wants to protect all his data on the array, wouldn't it be
better/easier to let raid and lun's be defined by the array and keep the
hosts as dumb clients??

>
> The first thing you should choose is the networking protocol to connect
> servers and arrays. You have a choice of FC and iSCSI.  In your case I
would
> suggest iSCSI because costs less and is easier.
>
> You do need to learn more, but the learning can't be done on Usenet. There
> are plenty of good books on iSCSI.  Also you can learn a lot for free here
:
>
http://searchcrm.techtarget.com/ori...00.h
tml

I'm currently following the webcasts, thanks for the link.

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

For that environment forget the SAN thing (especially the Switch) and
buy yourself a reliable, dual controller RAID System with more than 2
host ports.
Have a look into DotHill SANnet II. The FC one does have 8 and the S-ATA
up to 12 host ports .....

--
Rgds.
Andre

------------------------------------
out out, you daemons of stupidity!
http://www.storagecommunity.com

In article <cg5g12$9l9$1@news.cistron.nl>, dont@spam.me says...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently monitoring this ng because I need to learn some things about
> san. The differences between SAN and NAS are clear to me so that does not
> need
> any additional explanation.
>
> My interests in SAN were raised when I received some hardware from a frien
d
> and started to read about it. It came clear to me that it's a storage
> solution that can be usefull for my network (multi-site home network.
> Yes, you may start rolling on the floor and piss you're pants and all the
> other crap  ).
>
> I'm not interested is quantity, I don't need a lot of storage, it just nee
ds
> to be solid
> and fail safe (thinking of RAID 50). It will be accessed by a few servers:
>
> One database server with the DB on the san running NetBSD maybe solaris (f
or
> small forum);
> One NAS server, so I can have access to the SAN when necessary;
> One server running virtual server software, the virtual drive images will 
be
> placed on the SAN;
> Two clustered servers (W2k3) that shares the users profiles to the lan.
>
> Yeah, still talking about that home network.
>
>
> What I already know:
>
> I'm running several raid arrays (scsi and ata)
> Not much scsi understanding, do know the basic stuff
> Know nothing about san.
>
> To make an already long story not too much longer, what do I need to know:
>
> How does a disk array show up on a computer with a HBA, anybody knows some
> links for a Introduction?
> How about raid, is it included in the disk array or is it a HBA task?
>
> I admit, a lot of text and I just hope that someone can answer my question
s.
>
> thanks,
> Marcel
>
>
>
>

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

"Andre Dieball" <andre@storagecommunity.com> schreef in bericht
news:MPG.1b97de7dbf7bf712989682@news.easynews.net...
> For that environment forget the SAN thing (especially the Switch) and
> buy yourself a reliable, dual controller RAID System with more than 2
> host ports.
> Have a look into DotHill SANnet II. The FC one does have 8 and the S-ATA
> up to 12 host ports .....
>
> --
> Rgds.
>      Andre
>
> ------------------------------------
> out out, you daemons of stupidity!
> http://www.storagecommunity.com
>

I'm a eBay junkie and I couldn't find one. Getting these boxes new would
probably be a lot more expensive then getting some "old" san hardware,
although it looks very good, no question about that. Maybe you know some
resellers in Europe??

I currently watching an Dell PowerVault 650F that has actually everything I
need. Any comments on that device??

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]