Looking to promote my site. Any ideas who is best perhaps a link to there
website please.

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

mark | r wrote:
> "Larry Law" <xpl@fruits.com> wrote in message
> news:ch49lr$s5k$1@hercules.btinternet.com... 
>
> it all depends what youre after if you want SEO that generates loads
> of traffic then you more than often have to sacrifice 'ethical
> practices' and the possibility of being banned - otherwise employ an
> ethical SEO that will maybe not deliver as good a result.
>
> mark

Tell us what your site is and we can consider it.  Best regards, Eric.

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:35:54 +0100, "mark | r" <markrush@gmail.com>
wrote:

>"Larry Law" <xpl@fruits.com> wrote in message
>news:ch49lr$s5k$1@hercules.btinternet.com... 
>
>it all depends what youre after if you want SEO that generates loads of
>traffic then you more than often have to sacrifice 'ethical practices' and
>the possibility of being banned - otherwise employ an ethical SEO that will
>maybe not deliver as good a result.
>
>mark
>

Although there are shady SEO practices that can get a site traffic
quicker than 'ethical' SEO, over the long term you can do just as well
if not better than the best link spammer/clocker/hidden text ......
using SEO if you know what you are doing.

As I've said many times it's very, very easy to boost a site using
techniques that might get your sites banned long term, so if you are
going to run the risk why waste your money on an expensive SEO when
you can do it yourself.

Doesn't take a genius to go to Google and type Guestbook or blog to
find a few prominent link spammers and copy their links.

I'll give you an example or two.


LINK SPAMMING
------------------------

Lets say I was interested in the keyword Viagra (which I'm not, I
flattly deny I've been searching for a source all day :-)).

I might type Guestbook Viagra in google and get 180,000 results.

We'll take the first result-
algonet.se/~hubbabub/guestbook/guestbook.html (PR4)

First we can add a link or 50 there (you could add a link to every
page on your site in the body of the comment).

We look through the main page for a link to a Viagra site. We don't
have to look far as we have a winner - generic--viagra.biz/

We open the site and see it's PR4, not very good but what the hell
since PR hasn't updated for 70 days so could be PR7 by now. We check
the backlinks (with link:http://www.generic--viagra.biz/ in google)
and bingo almost 1000 results.

We now go through every one of those links looking for tell tale signs
of places to link spam (near enough all of them!).

So we load them up and post away.

You can do this over and over again and you don't have to stop there.
since you can post to any guestbook, blog or memberlist not just the
ones other Viagra link spammers have used. Pick another popular
spammed word and do the above again and again. Before you know it
you'll have 1000 links to your site.

Not exactly rocket science but very effective in the short term. Be
aware there is evidence sites doing this get banned from Google.

example 2

HIDDEN TEXT
---------------------

This is so easy to do, but some ways are much better than others. Most
SEOs (cough) who use this technique aren't smart enough to hide their
hidden work :-))

They'll use text in a font colour the same or very similar to the
background colour. This is very easy to spot by a competitor and so
report to Google etc...

So how does someone new to this use hidden text.

You go to http://inventory.overture.com/d/sea...ory/suggestion/
and type in your chosen phrase. Lets stick with Viagra since choosing
a new word would be HARD work :-))

You'll get a list like this-

326245  viagra
44449  viagra online
41645  order viagra
31567  generic viagra
17152  buy viagra
9368  viagra for woman
9049  cheap viagra
8484  buy viagra online
6668  viagra alternative
5752  herbal viagra
5261  female viagra
4132  free viagra
4025  viagra prescription
3606  free viagra sample
2849  viagra sample
2758  viagra on line
2665  viagra side effects
2652  discount viagra
2648  purchase viagra
2387  order viagra online
2239  natural viagra
2200  viagra pill
2079  viagra sale
1999  viagra sale online
1742  cheapest viagra
1718  viagra information
1639  viagra cialis
1595  purchase viagra online
1581  viagra prescription online
1481  womens viagra
1468  viagra uk
1426  viagra price
1257  viagra canada
1176  best price viagra
1171  buying viagra online
985  contact viagra
931  buy viagra cheap
859  cheap viagra online
824  viagra substitute
821  effects of viagra
780  buy viagra on line
742  cialis levitra viagra
742  viagra without prescription
740  cheap generic viagra
654  viagra card
638  viagra joke
632  lowest viagra price
617  viagra sales
584  viagra card.com
554  pfizer viagra
553  buying viagra
553  online pharmacy viagra
552  where to buy viagra
536  cialis vs viagra
522  buy generic viagra
518  viagra pharmacy
491  viagra dosage
486  levitra viagra
482  viagra drug
467  buy cheap viagra online
461  viagra risk
430  herbal alternative viagra
429  levitra viagra vs
429  mark martin viagra
426  buy generic viagra online
406  generic viagra online
404  viagra low cost
395  free trial viagra
375  kevin harvick viagra
372  cheapest viagra price
370  viagra tablet
363  picture of viagra
362  how to use viagra
353  viagra alcohol
346  order viagra prescription
344  wholesale viagra
337  cialis comparison levitra viagra
335  super viagra
328  natural viagra alternative
326  viagra story
325  viagra sales online
324  buy viagra in canada
324  cialis generic viagra
324  viagra soft tab
306  low price viagra
303  how does viagra work
299  viagra cost
299  get viagra
294  viagra mexico
293  mail order viagra
292  viagra com
290  viagra info
282  viagra best buy
274  viagra overnight
269  joe nemechek viagra
265  canada online pharmacy viagra
254  side affect of viagra
247  non prescription viagra
239  viagra online canada
229  sex and viagra

You want to remove all the numbers and I've a little trick for that.
Load Microsoft Excel and select and paste the above list into it. Now
you have two columns, one with numbers the other with just the text.
Select just the text and copy it to a text editor. Might work with
other spreadsheet programs. If not you'll have to manually remove the
numbers.

You now have this-

_viagra
_viagra online
_order viagra
_generic viagra
_buy viagra
_viagra for woman
_cheap viagra
_buy viagra online
_viagra alternative
_herbal viagra
_female viagra
_free viagra
_viagra prescription
_free viagra sample
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_viagra on line
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_discount viagra
_purchase viagra
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_natural viagra
_viagra pill
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_cheapest viagra
_viagra information
_viagra cialis
_purchase viagra online
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_womens viagra
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_viagra canada
_best price viagra
_buying viagra online
_contact viagra
_buy viagra cheap
_cheap viagra online
_viagra substitute
_effects of viagra
_buy viagra on line
_cialis levitra viagra
_viagra without prescription
_cheap generic viagra
_viagra card
_viagra joke
_lowest viagra price
_viagra sales
_viagra card.com
_pfizer viagra
_buying viagra
_online pharmacy viagra
_where to buy viagra
_cialis vs viagra
_buy generic viagra
_viagra pharmacy
_viagra dosage
_levitra viagra
_viagra drug
_buy cheap viagra online
_viagra risk
_herbal alternative viagra
_levitra viagra vs
_mark martin viagra
_buy generic viagra online
_generic viagra online
_viagra low cost
_free trial viagra
_kevin harvick viagra
_cheapest viagra price
_viagra tablet
_picture of viagra
_how to use viagra
_viagra alcohol
_order viagra prescription
_wholesale viagra
_cialis comparison levitra viagra
_super viagra
_natural viagra alternative
_viagra story
_viagra sales online
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_viagra soft tab
_low price viagra
_how does viagra work
_viagra cost
_get viagra
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_viagra com
_viagra info
_viagra best buy
_viagra overnight
_joe nemechek viagra
_canada online pharmacy viagra
_side affect of viagra
_non prescription viagra
_viagra online canada
_sex and viagra

Save this as a html file (viagra.html) and load in Internet Explorer.
Select all and copy and past into a new text document and you have
this-

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herbal viagra  female viagra  free viagra  viagra prescription  free
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discount viagra  purchase viagra  order viagra online  natural viagra
viagra pill  viagra sale  viagra sale online  cheapest viagra  viagra
information  viagra cialis  purchase viagra online  viagra
prescription online  womens viagra  viagra uk  viagra price  viagra
canada  best price viagra  buying viagra online  contact viagra  buy
viagra cheap  cheap viagra online  viagra substitute  effects of
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prescription  cheap generic viagra  viagra card  viagra joke  lowest
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viagra  online pharmacy viagra  where to buy viagra  cialis vs viagra
buy generic viagra  viagra pharmacy  viagra dosage  levitra viagra
viagra drug  buy cheap viagra online  viagra risk  herbal alternative
viagra  levitra viagra vs  mark martin viagra  buy generic viagra
online  generic viagra online  viagra low cost  free trial viagra
kevin harvick viagra  cheapest viagra price  viagra tablet  picture of
viagra  how to use viagra  viagra alcohol  order viagra prescription
wholesale viagra  cialis comparison levitra viagra  super viagra
natural viagra alternative  viagra story  viagra sales online  buy
viagra in canada  cialis generic viagra  viagra soft tab  low price
viagra  how does viagra work  viagra cost  get viagra  viagra mexico
mail order viagra  viagra com  viagra info  viagra best buy  viagra
overnight  joe nemechek viagra  canada online pharmacy viagra  side
affect of viagra  non prescription viagra  viagra online canada  sex
and viagra

It's keywords are not spaced out very much so lets add a few filler
words. By luck we have some double spaces so useing find and replace
we replace all the double spaces with some filler text like " the best
ever " (note the extra spaces either side). now we have-

viagra the best ever viagra online the best ever order viagra the
best ever generic viagra the best ever buy viagra the best ever viagra
for woman the best ever cheap viagra the best ever buy viagra online
the best ever viagra alternative the best ever herbal viagra the best
ever female viagra the best ever free viagra the best ever viagra
prescription the best ever free viagra sample the best ever viagra
sample the best ever viagra on line the best ever viagra side effects
the best ever discount viagra the best ever purchase viagra the best
ever order viagra online the best ever natural viagra the best ever
viagra pill the best ever viagra sale the best ever viagra sale online
the best ever cheapest viagra the best ever viagra information the
best ever viagra cialis the best ever purchase viagra online the best
ever viagra prescription online the best ever womens viagra the best
ever viagra uk the best ever viagra price the best ever viagra canada
the best ever best price viagra the best ever buying viagra online the
best ever contact viagra the best ever buy viagra cheap the best ever
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ever free trial viagra the best ever kevin harvick viagra the best
ever cheapest viagra price the best ever viagra tablet the best ever
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alcohol the best ever order viagra prescription the best ever
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best ever super viagra the best ever natural viagra alternative the
best ever viagra story the best ever viagra sales online the best ever
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best ever viagra overnight the best ever joe nemechek viagra the best
ever canada online pharmacy viagra the best ever side affect of viagra
the best ever non prescription viagra the best ever viagra online
canada the best ever sex and viagra


Still not ready, so we do one more replace, but this time semi
manually. Rather than using replace all we use the individual replace
and only replace some of the text. And we get something like this by
replacing some of the "the best ever" with "don't forget"-


viagra the best ever viagra online the best ever order viagra don't
forget generic viagra don't forget buy viagra the best ever viagra for
woman the best ever cheap viagra the best ever buy viagra online don't
forget viagra alternative the best ever herbal viagra don't forget
female viagra the best ever free viagra the best ever viagra
prescription don't forget free viagra sample don't forget viagra
sample the best ever viagra on line the best ever viagra side effects
don't forget discount viagra the best ever purchase viagra the best
ever order viagra online the best ever natural viagra don't forget
viagra pill the best ever viagra sale don't forget viagra sale online
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forget viagra cialis the best ever purchase viagra online don't forget
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effects of viagra the best ever buy viagra on line don't forget cialis
levitra viagra the best ever viagra without prescription the best ever
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best ever viagra card.com the best ever pfizer viagra don't forget
buying viagra the best ever online pharmacy viagra the best ever where
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viagra the best ever viagra pharmacy don't forget viagra dosage the
best ever levitra viagra don't forget viagra drug the best ever buy
cheap viagra online the best ever viagra risk don't forget herbal
alternative viagra the best ever levitra viagra vs don't forget mark
martin viagra the best ever buy generic viagra online the best ever
generic viagra online don't forget viagra low cost don't forget free
trial viagra the best ever kevin harvick viagra the best ever cheapest
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don't forget cialis comparison levitra viagra don't forget super
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mexico don't forget mail order viagra don't forget viagra com don't
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overnight the best ever joe nemechek viagra the best ever canada
online pharmacy viagra don't forget side affect of viagra the best
ever non prescription viagra the best ever viagra online canada don't
forget sex and viagra

We could repeat this, but you get the idea. Slap a <p> </p> around it
and a font tag to match the background colour and the text will be
invisible, but it will take up space on the page so put it at the very
bottom (no one will look there :-)).

There are techniques to fully hide this text from a viewer so the only
way to find it is view source, but I'm not going to give that info
here as I know one particular hidden text user who frequents this
group doesn't know more than the font colour technique!

Anyway, it's not poetry, but if you put a little more effort into it
within 15 minutes you can have some very keyword rich text to hide on
a page. There are also tools that can do an even better job including
cloaking. One I've tested will create an entire site of pages filled
with this crap then redirects to a page of your choice. All automatic
of course.

I don't use the above techniques since the risks are to great, I'm not
an ethical SEO, far from it as I've used link spamming in the past
when it was generally believed links to a site can't harm it unless
you reciprocate. But I don't use techniques that could result in a
ban/penalty.

To the OP: my second name is Law, would be funny if we were related
(not a widespread surname).

David
--
http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

I would be interested to see how long it takes to get banned using the
techniques you mentioned.  There is no way I would use these techniques on
any site that I valued but if I did this on a test domain, would the domain
get banned or the IP?  Never messed around with banning and search engines
before.

--
Kind regards

Dan Pickard
-----------------------
http://hosting.fast-trak.net
http://www.design.fast-trak.net
http://www.training.fast-trak.net

"SEO Dave" <seo-daveSP@AMsearch-engine-optimization-services.co.uk> wrote in
message  news:66ibj0djko6jvb3ikqm4q0ncrhot1b5u9r@
4ax.com...
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:35:54 +0100, "mark | r" <markrush@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
there[vbcol=seagreen] 
and[vbcol=seagreen] 
will[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
> Although there are shady SEO practices that can get a site traffic
> quicker than 'ethical' SEO, over the long term you can do just as well
> if not better than the best link spammer/clocker/hidden text ......
> using SEO if you know what you are doing.
>
> As I've said many times it's very, very easy to boost a site using
> techniques that might get your sites banned long term, so if you are
> going to run the risk why waste your money on an expensive SEO when
> you can do it yourself.
>
> Doesn't take a genius to go to Google and type Guestbook or blog to
> find a few prominent link spammers and copy their links.
>
> I'll give you an example or two.
>
>
> LINK SPAMMING
> ------------------------
>
> Lets say I was interested in the keyword Viagra (which I'm not, I
> flattly deny I've been searching for a source all day :-)).
>
> I might type Guestbook Viagra in google and get 180,000 results.
>
> We'll take the first result-
> algonet.se/~hubbabub/guestbook/guestbook.html (PR4)
>
> First we can add a link or 50 there (you could add a link to every
> page on your site in the body of the comment).
>
> We look through the main page for a link to a Viagra site. We don't
> have to look far as we have a winner - generic--viagra.biz/
>
> We open the site and see it's PR4, not very good but what the hell
> since PR hasn't updated for 70 days so could be PR7 by now. We check
> the backlinks (with link:http://www.generic--viagra.biz/ in google)
> and bingo almost 1000 results.
>
> We now go through every one of those links looking for tell tale signs
> of places to link spam (near enough all of them!).
>
> So we load them up and post away.
>
> You can do this over and over again and you don't have to stop there.
> since you can post to any guestbook, blog or memberlist not just the
> ones other Viagra link spammers have used. Pick another popular
> spammed word and do the above again and again. Before you know it
> you'll have 1000 links to your site.
>
> Not exactly rocket science but very effective in the short term. Be
> aware there is evidence sites doing this get banned from Google.
>
> example 2
>
> HIDDEN TEXT
> ---------------------
>
> This is so easy to do, but some ways are much better than others. Most
> SEOs (cough) who use this technique aren't smart enough to hide their
> hidden work :-))
>
> They'll use text in a font colour the same or very similar to the
> background colour. This is very easy to spot by a competitor and so
> report to Google etc...
>
> So how does someone new to this use hidden text.
>
> You go to http://inventory.overture.com/d/sea...ory/suggestion/
> and type in your chosen phrase. Lets stick with Viagra since choosing
> a new word would be HARD work :-))
>
> You'll get a list like this-
>
> 326245  viagra
>  44449  viagra online
>  41645  order viagra
>  31567  generic viagra
>  17152  buy viagra
>  9368  viagra for woman
>  9049  cheap viagra
>  8484  buy viagra online
>  6668  viagra alternative
>  5752  herbal viagra
>  5261  female viagra
>  4132  free viagra
>  4025  viagra prescription
>  3606  free viagra sample
>  2849  viagra sample
>  2758  viagra on line
>  2665  viagra side effects
>  2652  discount viagra
>  2648  purchase viagra
>  2387  order viagra online
>  2239  natural viagra
>  2200  viagra pill
>  2079  viagra sale
>  1999  viagra sale online
>  1742  cheapest viagra
>  1718  viagra information
>  1639  viagra cialis
>  1595  purchase viagra online
>  1581  viagra prescription online
>  1481  womens viagra
>  1468  viagra uk
>  1426  viagra price
>  1257  viagra canada
>  1176  best price viagra
>  1171  buying viagra online
>  985  contact viagra
>  931  buy viagra cheap
>  859  cheap viagra online
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>  821  effects of viagra
>  780  buy viagra on line
>  742  cialis levitra viagra
>  742  viagra without prescription
>  740  cheap generic viagra
>  654  viagra card
>  638  viagra joke
>  632  lowest viagra price
>  617  viagra sales
>  584  viagra card.com
>  554  pfizer viagra
>  553  buying viagra
>  553  online pharmacy viagra
>  552  where to buy viagra
>  536  cialis vs viagra
>  522  buy generic viagra
>  518  viagra pharmacy
>  491  viagra dosage
>  486  levitra viagra
>  482  viagra drug
>  467  buy cheap viagra online
>  461  viagra risk
>  430  herbal alternative viagra
>  429  levitra viagra vs
>  429  mark martin viagra
>  426  buy generic viagra online
>  406  generic viagra online
>  404  viagra low cost
>  395  free trial viagra
>  375  kevin harvick viagra
>  372  cheapest viagra price
>  370  viagra tablet
>  363  picture of viagra
>  362  how to use viagra
>  353  viagra alcohol
>  346  order viagra prescription
>  344  wholesale viagra
>  337  cialis comparison levitra viagra
>  335  super viagra
>  328  natural viagra alternative
>  326  viagra story
>  325  viagra sales online
>  324  buy viagra in canada
>  324  cialis generic viagra
>  324  viagra soft tab
>  306  low price viagra
>  303  how does viagra work
>  299  viagra cost
>  299  get viagra
>  294  viagra mexico
>  293  mail order viagra
>  292  viagra com
>  290  viagra info
>  282  viagra best buy
>  274  viagra overnight
>  269  joe nemechek viagra
>  265  canada online pharmacy viagra
>  254  side affect of viagra
>  247  non prescription viagra
>  239  viagra online canada
>  229  sex and viagra
>
> You want to remove all the numbers and I've a little trick for that.
> Load Microsoft Excel and select and paste the above list into it. Now
> you have two columns, one with numbers the other with just the text.
> Select just the text and copy it to a text editor. Might work with
> other spreadsheet programs. If not you'll have to manually remove the
> numbers.
>
> You now have this-
>
> viagra
> viagra online
> order viagra
> generic viagra
> buy viagra
> viagra for woman
> cheap viagra
> buy viagra online
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>
> Save this as a html file (viagra.html) and load in Internet Explorer.
> Select all and copy and past into a new text document and you have
> this-
>
>  viagra  viagra online  order viagra  generic viagra  buy viagra
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> viagra  how does viagra work  viagra cost  get viagra  viagra mexico
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> overnight  joe nemechek viagra  canada online pharmacy viagra  side
> affect of viagra  non prescription viagra  viagra online canada  sex
> and viagra
>
> It's keywords are not spaced out very much so lets add a few filler
> words. By luck we have some double spaces so useing find and replace
> we replace all the double spaces with some filler text like " the best
> ever " (note the extra spaces either side). now we have-
>
>  viagra the best ever viagra online the best ever order viagra the
> best ever generic viagra the best ever buy viagra the best ever viagra
> for woman the best ever cheap viagra the best ever buy viagra online
> the best ever viagra alternative the best ever herbal viagra the best
> ever female viagra the best ever free viagra the best ever viagra
> prescription the best ever free viagra sample the best ever viagra
> sample the best ever viagra on line the best ever viagra side effects
> the best ever discount viagra the best ever purchase viagra the best
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> ever viagra prescription online the best ever womens viagra the best
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> ever canada online pharmacy viagra the best ever side affect of viagra
> the best ever non prescription viagra the best ever viagra online
> canada the best ever sex and viagra
>
>
> Still not ready, so we do one more replace, but this time semi
> manually. Rather than using replace all we use the individual replace
> and only replace some of the text. And we get something like this by
> replacing some of the "the best ever" with "don't forget"-
>
>
>  viagra the best ever viagra online the best ever order viagra don't
> forget generic viagra don't forget buy viagra the best ever viagra for
> woman the best ever cheap viagra the best ever buy viagra online don't
> forget viagra alternative the best ever herbal viagra don't forget
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> don't forget discount viagra the best ever purchase viagra the best
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> generic viagra online don't forget viagra low cost don't forget free
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> viagra the best ever natural viagra alternative the best ever viagra
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> forget sex and viagra
>
> We could repeat this, but you get the idea. Slap a <p> </p> around it
> and a font tag to match the background colour and the text will be
> invisible, but it will take up space on the page so put it at the very
> bottom (no one will look there :-)).
>
> There are techniques to fully hide this text from a viewer so the only
> way to find it is view source, but I'm not going to give that info
> here as I know one particular hidden text user who frequents this
> group doesn't know more than the font colour technique!
>
> Anyway, it's not poetry, but if you put a little more effort into it
> within 15 minutes you can have some very keyword rich text to hide on
> a page. There are also tools that can do an even better job including
> cloaking. One I've tested will create an entire site of pages filled
> with this crap then redirects to a page of your choice. All automatic
> of course.
>
> I don't use the above techniques since the risks are to great, I'm not
> an ethical SEO, far from it as I've used link spamming in the past
> when it was generally believed links to a site can't harm it unless
> you reciprocate. But I don't use techniques that could result in a
> ban/penalty.
>
> To the OP: my second name is Law, would be funny if we were related
> (not a widespread surname).
>
> David
> --
> http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:04:52 GMT, SEO Dave
<seo-daveSP@AMsearch-engine-optimization-services.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:35:54 +0100, "mark | r" <markrush@gmail.com>
>wrote:
> 
>
>Although there are shady SEO practices that can get a site traffic
>quicker than 'ethical' SEO, over the long term you can do just as well
>if not better than the best link spammer/clocker/hidden text ......
>using SEO if you know what you are doing.
>
>As I've said many times it's very, very easy to boost a site using
>techniques that might get your sites banned long term, so if you are
>going to run the risk why waste your money on an expensive SEO when
>you can do it yourself.
>
>Doesn't take a genius to go to Google and type Guestbook or blog to
>find a few prominent link spammers and copy their links.
>
>I'll give you an example or two.
>
>
>LINK SPAMMING
>------------------------
>
>Lets say I was interested in the keyword Viagra (which I'm not, I
>flattly deny I've been searching for a source all day :-)).

You can have mine - I'm up to here with it!

BB

>I might type Guestbook Viagra in google and get 180,000 results.
>
>We'll take the first result-
>algonet.se/~hubbabub/guestbook/guestbook.html (PR4)
>
>First we can add a link or 50 there (you could add a link to every
>page on your site in the body of the comment).
>
>We look through the main page for a link to a Viagra site. We don't
>have to look far as we have a winner - generic--viagra.biz/
>
>We open the site and see it's PR4, not very good but what the hell
>since PR hasn't updated for 70 days so could be PR7 by now. We check
>the backlinks (with link:http://www.generic--viagra.biz/ in google)
>and bingo almost 1000 results.
>
>We now go through every one of those links looking for tell tale signs
>of places to link spam (near enough all of them!).
>
>So we load them up and post away.
>
>You can do this over and over again and you don't have to stop there.
>since you can post to any guestbook, blog or memberlist not just the
>ones other Viagra link spammers have used. Pick another popular
>spammed word and do the above again and again. Before you know it
>you'll have 1000 links to your site.
>
>Not exactly rocket science but very effective in the short term. Be
>aware there is evidence sites doing this get banned from Google.
>
>example 2
>
>HIDDEN TEXT
>---------------------
>
>This is so easy to do, but some ways are much better than others. Most
>SEOs (cough) who use this technique aren't smart enough to hide their
>hidden work :-))
>
>They'll use text in a font colour the same or very similar to the
>background colour. This is very easy to spot by a competitor and so
>report to Google etc...
>
>So how does someone new to this use hidden text.
>
>You go to http://inventory.overture.com/d/sea...ory/suggestion/
>and type in your chosen phrase. Lets stick with Viagra since choosing
>a new word would be HARD work :-))
>
>You'll get a list like this-
>
>326245  viagra
> 44449  viagra online
> 41645  order viagra
> 31567  generic viagra
> 17152  buy viagra
> 9368  viagra for woman
> 9049  cheap viagra
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> 6668  viagra alternative
> 5752  herbal viagra
> 5261  female viagra
> 4132  free viagra
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> 2849  viagra sample
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> 1426  viagra price
> 1257  viagra canada
> 1176  best price viagra
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> 985  contact viagra
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> 584  viagra card.com
> 554  pfizer viagra
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> 395  free trial viagra
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>
>You want to remove all the numbers and I've a little trick for that.
>Load Microsoft Excel and select and paste the above list into it. Now
>you have two columns, one with numbers the other with just the text.
>Select just the text and copy it to a text editor. Might work with
>other spreadsheet programs. If not you'll have to manually remove the
>numbers.
>
>You now have this-
>
>_viagra
>_viagra online
>_order viagra
>_generic viagra
>_buy viagra
>_viagra for woman
>_cheap viagra
>_buy viagra online
>_viagra alternative
>_herbal viagra
>_female viagra
>_free viagra
>_viagra prescription
>_free viagra sample
>_viagra sample
>_viagra on line
>_viagra side effects
>_discount viagra
>_purchase viagra
>_order viagra online
>_natural viagra
>_viagra pill
>_viagra sale
>_viagra sale online
>_cheapest viagra
>_viagra information
>_viagra cialis
>_purchase viagra online
>_viagra prescription online
>_womens viagra
>_viagra uk
>_viagra price
>_viagra canada
>_best price viagra
>_buying viagra online
>_contact viagra
>_buy viagra cheap
>_cheap viagra online
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>_effects of viagra
>_buy viagra on line
>_cialis levitra viagra
>_viagra without prescription
>_cheap generic viagra
>_viagra card
>_viagra joke
>_lowest viagra price
>_viagra sales
>_viagra card.com
>_pfizer viagra
>_buying viagra
>_online pharmacy viagra
>_where to buy viagra
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>_buy generic viagra
>_viagra pharmacy
>_viagra dosage
>_levitra viagra
>_viagra drug
>_buy cheap viagra online
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>_levitra viagra vs
>_mark martin viagra
>_buy generic viagra online
>_generic viagra online
>_viagra low cost
>_free trial viagra
>_kevin harvick viagra
>_cheapest viagra price
>_viagra tablet
>_picture of viagra
>_how to use viagra
>_viagra alcohol
>_order viagra prescription
>_wholesale viagra
>_cialis comparison levitra viagra
>_super viagra
>_natural viagra alternative
>_viagra story
>_viagra sales online
>_buy viagra in canada
>_cialis generic viagra
>_viagra soft tab
>_low price viagra
>_how does viagra work
>_viagra cost
>_get viagra
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>_mail order viagra
>_viagra com
>_viagra info
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>_viagra overnight
>_joe nemechek viagra
>_canada online pharmacy viagra
>_side affect of viagra
>_non prescription viagra
>_viagra online canada
>_sex and viagra
>
>Save this as a html file (viagra.html) and load in Internet Explorer.
>Select all and copy and past into a new text document and you have
>this-
>
> viagra  viagra online  order viagra  generic viagra  buy viagra
>viagra for woman  cheap viagra  buy viagra online  viagra alternative
>herbal viagra  female viagra  free viagra  viagra prescription  free
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>overnight  joe nemechek viagra  canada online pharmacy viagra  side
>affect of viagra  non prescription viagra  viagra online canada  sex
>and viagra
>
>It's keywords are not spaced out very much so lets add a few filler
>words. By luck we have some double spaces so useing find and replace
>we replace all the double spaces with some filler text like " the best
>ever " (note the extra spaces either side). now we have-
>
> viagra the best ever viagra online the best ever order viagra the
>best ever generic viagra the best ever buy viagra the best ever viagra
>for woman the best ever cheap viagra the best ever buy viagra online
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>
>
>Still not ready, so we do one more replace, but this time semi
>manually. Rather than using replace all we use the individual replace
>and only replace some of the text. And we get something like this by
>replacing some of the "the best ever" with "don't forget"-
>
>
> viagra the best ever viagra online the best ever order viagra don't
>forget generic viagra don't forget buy viagra the best ever viagra for
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>
>We could repeat this, but you get the idea. Slap a <p> </p> around it
>and a font tag to match the background colour and the text will be
>invisible, but it will take up space on the page so put it at the very
>bottom (no one will look there :-)).
>
>There are techniques to fully hide this text from a viewer so the only
>way to find it is view source, but I'm not going to give that info
>here as I know one particular hidden text user who frequents this
>group doesn't know more than the font colour technique!
>
>Anyway, it's not poetry, but if you put a little more effort into it
>within 15 minutes you can have some very keyword rich text to hide on
>a page. There are also tools that can do an even better job including
>cloaking. One I've tested will create an entire site of pages filled
>with this crap then redirects to a page of your choice. All automatic
>of course.
>
>I don't use the above techniques since the risks are to great, I'm not
>an ethical SEO, far from it as I've used link spamming in the past
>when it was generally believed links to a site can't harm it unless
>you reciprocate. But I don't use techniques that could result in a
>ban/penalty.
>
>To the OP: my second name is Law, would be funny if we were related
>(not a widespread surname).
>
>David

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

"Big Bill" <kruse@cityscape.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:ejqbj0tvvooap8d4c8lmqjblnso5g9rhvf@
4ax.com...
> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:04:52 GMT, SEO Dave
> <seo-daveSP@AMsearch-engine-optimization-services.co.uk> wrote:
>
<snip>
 
>
> You can have mine - I'm up to here with it!
>
> BB
>

LOL Bill! I almost missed it though. I was skimming to fast and had to back
up!

Stacey

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:17:00 -0400, "Stacey"
<stacey@staceyssimplestuff.com> wrote:

>
>
>"Big Bill" <kruse@cityscape.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ejqbj0tvvooap8d4c8lmqjblnso5g9rhvf@
4ax.com... 
><snip>
> 
>
>LOL Bill! I almost missed it though. I was skimming to fast and had to back
>up!
>
>Stacey
>

You had to back up as you approached too fast!!

At least we all know why he's called Big Bill now.

LOL

David
--
http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

David, I never understood the signficance of hidden text. In other
words, if I took your technique and made the text visible it would be
legal? I know it wouldn't look pretty, but I had a friend who did just
that. He took a bunch of keywords, drew a horizontal rule at the end
of his regular content and stuck all these keywords beyond the HR. He
swore it helped, but I really didn't buy into it. Still, it does make
me wornder.

Steve

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On 1 Sep 2004 12:56:26 -0700, steveliza@hotmail.com (steve) wrote:

>David, I never understood the signficance of hidden text. In other
>words, if I took your technique and made the text visible it would be
>legal?

I suppose it depends what the text is. If it was lists of keywords
with no real value and Google did a manual review of the page it might
get penalised. But if it's not too bad, just a bit on the spammy side
I doubt it would result in a penalty.

> I know it wouldn't look pretty, but I had a friend who did just
>that. He took a bunch of keywords, drew a horizontal rule at the end
>of his regular content and stuck all these keywords beyond the HR. He
>swore it helped, but I really didn't buy into it. Still, it does make
>me wornder.

It works, you can find plenty of examples that are explained by this
technique, but it really only works with easy SERPs. Thing is these
SERPs are so easy a single page with a single link to it and average
optimisation can take them anyway so why take such risks. Also it's
not that difficult with practice and experience to incorporate most
keywords into the content or somewhere in the code that counts without
ruining the content. The benefit of this is you tend only to include
relevant keywords, whilst with the example I posted you add a lot of
irrelevant ones.

The difference is those that use hidden text/big lists of keywords
don't have the skills required to do safe SEO. Also I look at it this
way, If I look at a page and say it doesn't deserve a particular SERP
for whatever reason I'm sure a Google employee who does manual reviews
will use similar criteria. The risks are small if done correctly, but
why take a risk you don't have to.

>Steve

David
--
http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:40:14 +0100, "Dan"
<daniel.pickardNO@SPAMfast-trak.netPlease> wrote:

>I would be interested to see how long it takes to get banned using the
>techniques you mentioned.  There is no way I would use these techniques on
>any site that I valued but if I did this on a test domain, would the domain
>get banned or the IP?  Never messed around with banning and search engines
>before.

I've not used hidden text or any other on page techniques that are
shady, but did use link spamming when I believed (like most) what you
did off site couldn't get your site banned (it was at the beginning of
my SEO experimentation).

There is no way to tell if your site will be one of the small number
that get hit with a penalty, but suspect the better you do more likely
you are to be penalised.

I did extremely well, within 9 months the site had gone from relying
on PPC to having over 5000 unique visitors a day and peaking at 7000
unique visitors a day at the time of the penalty. Had to buy a
dedicated server to cope with the traffic and it was no where near at
a stage where there was no traffic left to get from other phrases.

It wasn't all link spamming that made it successful since I uploaded a
mirror site that within 2 weeks was receiving over 1200 unique
visitors a day and within 6 weeks was at 2000+ a day (most from
Google). This mirror was right after the penalty (a replacement site)
and it's best links was just PR5 (from my NTL home page). So it's
success was on page mostly. It was also banned most likely because it
was a mirror site. Made the mistake of not excluding Google from the
original site with a robots.txt file.

Though with that sort of speed I could of kept uploading a new site
ever 2 months :-))

In my case the IP wasn't banned as I've used the IP for other things
with no problems. Though I wasn't a big link spammer, only did it for
one site and then not way over the top like a lot do (when you see a
list of 50 URLs on one post).

This was my main site for PR at the time and having it penalised wiped
me out for months. The site is still penalised, but Google is playing
silly buggers with it with one month showing backlinks and a little PR
then nothing. Still gets over 1000 unique visitors a day from other
engines, so still a going concern. I've added a few hundred links so
if Google ever remove the ban I'll know.

My advice would be to stay away from shady techniques unless you can
afford to loose the domain. It might also get your stuff looked at
more closely in the future by google if you have a penalised site. The
speed at which the mirror site was banned suggests they checked on
what I was doing for at least a few months (you can have mirror sites
up for 6 months without problems).

David
--
http://www.search-engine-optimization-services.co.uk/

[ Post a follow-up to this message ]